Isaiah 7:14

[Jackie]

I was doing some Google searching about why Judaism denies Jesus as the Messiah. And I came across some articles that used Isaiah 7:14 as evidence AGAINST Jesus being the Messiah.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


According to the opposition, the Hebrew word translated in English as "virgin" is "alma". The issue is that "alma" just means "young woman", and it doesn't specifically denote a virgin. Isaiah would have used the word "bethulah" had he specifically meant to say "virgin". Furthermore, the argument is made that Isaiah, in context, is not making a Messianic prophesy here. He's telling Ahaz how he can be assured that his enemies will be defeated.

Thus, the logic of this argument follows that something is up in Matthew 1:22-23

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

To those who practice Judaism, Matthew is either a liar, or he's quoting from something that is not Isaiah 7:14 as it is in the Hebrew Bible.

To this argument, I feel like I really have no good response to give. Do you guys have any ideas?

[Kenneth Winslow]

Isaiah 7:14 KJV  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
 
A young woman being with child wouldn't be much of a sign from the Lord, and not necessarily much to behold, would it. 

[Jeanne]

What Kenneth said and also, why would his name be called 'Immanuel' meaning 'God with us' if it wasn't a Messianic prophecy? What do they say 'Immanuel' means?

[creationliberty]

Yes, my first response is that we should define words by the context, not by a grammar dictionary. When you go to a lexicon or concordance to get "the original Hebrew" from a corrupt dictionary, you'll come up with strange doctrines. Please take a look at this teaching:
The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances

And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.
-Genesis 24:16

To say that it is a "young woman" and not a virgin, which is a woman who has never known a man in sexual relations, would destroy the foundation of many rules and regulations in the Torah. For example:

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
-Deut 22:23

Shall we then say that it's only wrong to rape a young woman, and not an old woman? This law is specifically referring to those women who have had their value of virginity stolen from them, and later verses of punishment are those applied to a thief, rather than execution, which is the normal punishment for rape in Scripture.

There is no other place in Scripture that speaks of a virgin conceiving a child. It's a very clear and specific adjective that is used in a unique way, and learned Jews know this; don't be intimidated by them. Answer Scripture with Scripture.

[Jackie]

Isaiah 7:14 KJV  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
 
A young woman being with child wouldn't be much of a sign from the Lord, and not necessarily much to behold, would it. 

I'd have to agree, Kenneth. It's also of note that in up until verse 13, Isaiah had been addressing Ahaz directly. But in verse 13, he says
 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

Maybe him addressing the nation is a sign of the double prophecy at hand?

What Kenneth said and also, why would his name be called 'Immanuel' meaning 'God with us' if it wasn't a Messianic prophecy? What do they say 'Immanuel' means?

Some say there was a little woman that had a son at that time, and she named him Immanuel/Emmanuel. Others says that King Hezekiah was the fulfillment of this prophecy, since I guess his name means "Mighty God" (like what Isaiah says in Isaiah 9:6. Additionally, King Hezekiah is called "Prince of Peace", allegedly.

Yes, my first response is that we should define words by the context, not by a grammar dictionary. When you go to a lexicon or concordance to get "the original Hebrew" from a corrupt dictionary, you'll come up with strange doctrines. Please take a look at this teaching:
The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances

I have looked at this article before, so I'm aware of the vocabulary game that can be played here.  However, apparently, people who practice Judaism will argue that the only times "alma" is used in the Scriptures never directly refer to the meaning "virgin" (though I believe they will concede it is often implied).

I guess my issue is it's hard to, as you say, "Answer Scripture with Scripture" with people that hold tightly to the use of original languages.

[creationliberty]

Context is how words are defined, and the context is unique in that it makes it clear that this was a virgin birth, not a "young woman" birth, and they know that.

[Jackie]

Context is how words are defined, and the context is unique in that it makes it clear that this was a virgin birth, not a "young woman" birth, and they know that.

Good point. I was watching a video from a Rabbi who was debunking the Christian interpretation of this text. He posed the following question.

If we concede to the fact that this passage is a double prophecy, meaning that it was fulfilled back then and also fulfilled with Jesus Christ, then who was the child born of a virgin in the time Of Ahaz?

I wonder, does anyone know if the Bible alludes to any immediate fulfilling of this prophecy?

[anvilhauler]

What Kenneth said and also, why would his name be called 'Immanuel' meaning 'God with us' if it wasn't a Messianic prophecy? What do they say 'Immanuel' means?

Also that since prophets and prophecy is so close to their hearts they might want to further consider why they haven't had a prophet for well over 2000 years and that is the time since Jesus was in Israel.

Surely they can't deny that as the prophets foretold them that they would be taken captive and then many of them would be scattered throughout the world and mistreated. 

Where was their prophet during the holocaust?  They get angry with "holocaust deniers" but they are prophet and prophecy deniers.

[Jackie]

What Kenneth said and also, why would his name be called 'Immanuel' meaning 'God with us' if it wasn't a Messianic prophecy? What do they say 'Immanuel' means?

Also that since prophets and prophecy is so close to their hearts they might want to further consider why they haven't had a prophet for well over 2000 years and that is the time since Jesus was in Israel.

Surely they can't deny that as the prophets foretold them that they would be taken captive and then many of them would be scattered throughout the world and mistreated. 

Where was their prophet during the holocaust?  They get angry with "holocaust deniers" but they are prophet and prophecy deniers.

My only explanation for that is that modern Jews have got to believe that the time of the prophets has stopped at some point. Just like they believe that blood atonements have ceased without a direct command in the Old Testament.

[Jeanne]

The Bible says in Romans that the Jews would be blinded for a time. If they didn't recognise the Messiah when He was walking among them, they certainly aren't going to accept Him for who He is now without the intervention of the Holy Spirit.

The point is, (now, as it was then), that they don't want to believe and they will hold to any excuse they can find to deny the truth. There's no way to convince them, or anyone else, of the truth if they are determined NOT to accept it.

I think Jews are one of the hardest groups of people to reach with the Gospel message and sometimes the best people to witness to them are other Jews who have come to Christ. Not saying we shouldn't try, of course, but don't be too disappointed when they refuse to listen to you.

[anvilhauler]

Since the topic concerns birth then it is interesting to also throw in that Moses was instructed to tell Pharaoh that Israel is His firstborn son.

Exodus 4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: 23 and I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

When the Israelites knew of that, then one of the things you would hopefully quickly think of when you're referred to as the firstborn would be "I wonder if there are any more children coming after me"?  They knew the history of how the people of Israel came about via Abraham.  What happens if they come across some other people who also claim to be children of God    .....  and worse still   .....  they say "Abraham is our father"?

An even worse day at the office when these people tell you that you were thrown out of the land and were cut out and blinded due to disobedience and the promise was given to others but that in time you will be grafted back in to the vine. 

What year is it Israel today?   .....  2019?    2019 years since what?  Since Jesus Christ    Even our years are dated by Him.  All of Israel's international trade is dated according to the birth of the Christ.

It will take a major Israel and world event to bring the dry bones back to life again.

[creationliberty]

I wonder, does anyone know if the Bible alludes to any immediate fulfilling of this prophecy?

Read the chapter. Did you go back and read Isa 7, or did you just take his word for it? From what you're saying, that Jewish man is trying to say that God promised this to Ahaz himself. In verse 13, God said He would give a sign to the house of David, whose line Ahaz was in, not necessarily Ahaz himself because Ahaz refused to ask God for a sign, to which God says he was "weary" (i.e. tired) of him.

That Jewish man KNOWS he's deceptive because he knows full well that, likewise to Isa 7, the prophecy of Abraham was fulfilled in future generations.

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
-Gen 22:17

Yet, God only gave Abraham one child, Isaac. (Don't try to argue about Ishmael; that's a trap.) Is this prophecy then not fulfilled? Is God found to be a liar? Obviously not. The hypocritical Jewish teacher you're referring to knows that is not the case, and even the Jews in the days of Jesus Christ called Him "the son of David." They knew the prophecy was fulfilled through Jesus, and that deceptive Jewish man knows it too, which is why he trying so hard to find another way to explain that which is quite simple; God will judge.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
-Mat 18:6

[anvilhauler]

Yet, God only gave Abraham one child, Isaac. (Don't try to argue about Ishmael; that's a trap.) Is this prophecy then not fulfilled? Is God found to be a liar? Obviously not. The hypocritical Jewish teacher you're referring to knows that is not the case, and even the Jews in the days of Jesus Christ called Him "the son of David." They knew the prophecy was fulfilled through Jesus, and that deceptive Jewish man knows it too, which is why he trying so hard to find another way to explain that which is quite simple; God will judge.

Yes, I stand corrected on that.  The promise was through Isaac. 

I had gone down the thought route of faith in things unseen and being Gentiles receiving of the Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.  In case anyone thought otherwise I certainly wasn't endorsing Ishmael.

[Jackie]

Read the chapter. Did you go back and read Isa 7, or did you just take his word for it? From what you're saying, that Jewish man is trying to say that God promised this to Ahaz himself. In verse 13, God said He would give a sign to the house of David, whose line Ahaz was in, not necessarily Ahaz himself because Ahaz refused to ask God for a sign, to which God says he was "weary" (i.e. tired) of him.

That Jewish man KNOWS he's deceptive because he knows full well that, likewise to Isa 7, the prophecy of Abraham was fulfilled in future generations.

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
-Gen 22:17

Yet, God only gave Abraham one child, Isaac. (Don't try to argue about Ishmael; that's a trap.) Is this prophecy then not fulfilled? Is God found to be a liar? Obviously not. The hypocritical Jewish teacher you're referring to knows that is not the case, and even the Jews in the days of Jesus Christ called Him "the son of David." They knew the prophecy was fulfilled through Jesus, and that deceptive Jewish man knows it too, which is why he trying so hard to find another way to explain that which is quite simple; God will judge.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
-Mat 18:6

I did read the rest of that chapter later, as well as Isaiah chapters 52 and 53 (which Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, has lots of contention with too. They contend that the servant being spoken of is Israel, not the Messiah). For context, this Jewish rabbi I later learned is Rabbi Tovia Singer, who I guess is a well known Orthodox Judaism apologist, being the leader or something of Outreach Judaism (And Jews for Judaism too, I think).  His whole life mission is about protecting the Jews from the "missionaries" (us) and bringing the Messianic Jews back into Orthodox Judaism.

[Richard]

To me it`s important to remember that Judaism isn`t the religeon of Moses. In Judaism the Talmud holds precedence over the Torah. Judaism is as false a religeon as muslim, buddist etc.

I am pro Israel but the religeon of Judaism has no value for a Christian.