Author Topic: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus  (Read 11582 times)

Reed Scott

  • Guest
The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« on: August 07, 2019, 01:07:41 PM »
I did not know this.  When I became fully aware of the source material ( the Greek texts ) for the various versions I abandoned my NKJV for the KJB.  I, like many here,  also found out just how bad all the other versions are and how almost all of them used the Alexandrian texts for their translations.  I have an NSAB and even and old NIV.  I'm going to burn those.

Now I find out I had been assuming Majority Text and Textus Receptus were the same thing and they are not.  I never paid any attention to the translators notes in my NKJV.  Yes I knew what NU stood for ( Nestle Aland and Unite Bible Society which might as well be Wescott and Hort ) and I never paid any attention to those notes.  But the 'M' went right over my head.  It stands for Majority Text.  This Majority Text was built from manuscripts discovered since the King James was published and the compilers claim to also have gone back to the original manuscripts the KJB was translated from which they call the Traditional Text.  Only there is ample evidence the whole deal is a sham.  Perpetrated by the publishers of the NKJV.

I encourage anyone who is interested to look into this.  You can learn a lot by searching on You Tube for 'Majority Text'.

creationliberty

  • Administrator
  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 3806
  • Edification: 459
    • View Profile
    • Creation Liberty Evangelism
  • First Name: Christopher
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Indiana
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 03:25:50 PM »
Well, you can state it as you just did, but just telling people to "look it up" is, in my opinion, pretty lazy. You're not providing any evidence of what you're saying. So for example, some of the majority texts were used by men like Erasmus, who help compile the Bible prior to the KJB, and he ignored the minority Catholic texts. Now, if you're saying name was generally confused between "tradition" and "majority," that's understandable, but you assumed everyone knows what Nestle Aland and the United Bible Society is, and you assumed that everyone would just know what they were looking for on Youtube, not to mention, that they would automatically find the right information, and furthermore, assuming that everything on Youtube was backed up with the proper information so everyone else can verify it.

"I thought this was interesting" is how things are done on social media, but I figured that among us Christians, we ought to show others a better example.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2019, 07:06:04 PM »
Oh .... O ..K ...Christopher  :-[

Problem is all this is brand new to me as well.  I was hoping to get a discussion going where the facts and information would come out as we discussed it.

What Bible critics and scholars are referring to when they speak of the 'Majority Text' now is not Erasmus' work.  Nor those who followed him.  It is a new Greek text published by Nelson,  written by Zane Hodges and Arthur L. Farstad.  Title:The Greek New Testament According to the Majority Text.  They gave removed 1 John 5:7 and made numerous changes to the Erasmus Text.

This is from Dallas Theological Seminary ( the pre-trib seminary ) where Hodges and Farstad teach:

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/new_testament_greek/text/wallace-majoritytext-gtj.pdf

More to follow .....

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2019, 07:29:05 PM »
This work by Hodges and Farstad was preceded by a similar work by Wilbur N. Pickering.  The Identity Of The New Testament IV

Here it is on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/Identity-New-Testament-Text-IV/dp/0989827356/ref=ya_od_pd_dx_mr_4/144-0760845-1786624?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0989827356&pd_rd_r=5df077fb-4e9b-4e80-a41e-9a54afa62b16&pd_rd_w=qldgQ&pd_rd_wg=zlA5f&psc=1&refRID=ZTTJGGA59KZ0KYG4WNM0

From Amazon:   here are over 5,000 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, over half of which are continuous text copies, the rest being lectionaries. They range in size from a scrap with parts of two verses to complete New Testaments. They range in date from the second century to the sixteenth. They come from all over the Mediterranean world. They contain several hundred thousand variant readings (differences in the text). The vast majority of these are misspellings or other obvious errors due to carelessness or ignorance on the part of the copyists

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2019, 07:31:14 PM »
This work by Hodges and Farstad was preceded by a similar work by Wilbur N. Pickering.  The Identity Of The New Testament IV

Here it is on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/Identity-New-Testament-Text-IV/dp/0989827356/ref=ya_od_pd_dx_mr_4/144-0760845-1786624?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0989827356&pd_rd_r=5df077fb-4e9b-4e80-a41e-9a54afa62b16&pd_rd_w=qldgQ&pd_rd_wg=zlA5f&psc=1&refRID=ZTTJGGA59KZ0KYG4WNM0

From Amazon:   here are over 5,000 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, over half of which are continuous text copies, the rest being lectionaries. They range in size from a scrap with parts of two verses to complete New Testaments. They range in date from the second century to the sixteenth. They come from all over the Mediterranean world. They contain several hundred thousand variant readings (differences in the text). The vast majority of these are misspellings or other obvious errors due to carelessness or ignorance on the part of the copyists

Dang,  the foreign apostrophe got me ....

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2019, 07:38:30 PM »
Here is another Amazon quote (maybe) on Pickering's book:  For some time Dr. Pickering has felt that among the many hundreds of Greek manuscripts known to exist today, surely God would have preserved the original wording. After years of searching and comparing Greek NT manuscripts, he has concluded that God used a certain line of transmission to preserve that wording. That line is by far the largest and most cohesive of all manuscript groups, or families. It is distinguished from all other groups by the high level of care with which it was copied (Dr. Pickering holds copies of perfect manuscripts for 22 of the 27 books). It is both ancient and independent, and is the only one that has a demonstrable archetypal form in all 27 books. That archetypal form has been empirically, objectively identified by a wide comparison of family representatives, and it is indeed error free.

Pickering is seeking to rewrite the New Testament.  Just as Hodges and Farstad (above ) have done.  They are all textual critics.

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2019, 07:42:48 PM »
Here is a long pdf by Pickering.  It is quite informational regarding textual criticism and details why he believes he has outdone Erasmus and thus the KJB:

https://digidownload.libero.it/domingo7/TMPickering.pdf

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2019, 08:28:37 PM »
Here's a good short video explaining the two streams from which came the KJB ... AND the new age versions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCzf-d8a4sQ

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2019, 08:15:08 AM »
Here is a short video on discovering 'new' manuscripts.  I do not vouch for this man's ministry, character or doctrine.  His organization has found several heretofore unknown very old documents. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqLSSZ-nRPU

Timotheus

  • BANNED
  • Newly Registered (Forum LVL 0)
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Edification: -2
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Timotheus
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: NM
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 11:51:45 PM »
That is correct, Farstad is not the received text. If I am not mistaken, they used a statistical model to approximate what it may have read as, factoring in von Soden's various readings. Perhaps someone who has a copy of Farstad may be a better resource upon the scheme layouted therein, for I do not possess a copy.

If there is anything to be said (and please do not rely on YT as a source of information) upon the received text, it would be this: the blood of the saints attest to its authority.

I understand that many confused individuals are polluting the streams of information within cyberspace, and doubtless you will find that no one knows what it is they are talking about. I would suggest, should you be earnest in your pursuit of knowledge, to read books from the time of the reformation on down until you can decipher the confusion yourself. Do not read transcriptions, but rather obtain a photo-copy or electronic facsimile (or even better an original edition) via online database searches or visiting your local library.

This may not have been the answer you are looking for, but be advised, everyone on YT, Google, Wiki, and so forth have an agenda to push, or something they are marketing, and take no pains in defying their conscience in twisting the truth. They typically are in it for lucre's sake. Just be careful. The other half of the spectrum you will find to be occupied by surrogates of Rome, where their mission is to create a "dialogue" with anyone they encounter so to bring them under the veil of Rome. They do this by deceit and cunning. Take a look into the PCPCU, what it entails, and what are its prerogatives, and the consequences of entering into such a dialogue with Rome.

I encourage you to confirm with your own eyes what dangers are lurking out there, and commend you upon your inquiry into the value of the received Greek text.

Jeanne

  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 1538
  • Edification: 125
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Jeanne
  • Belief: Other
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 07:38:31 AM »
There really is no need to delve into all of this stuff. I suggest you guys read the article on the CLE website entitled Why I Use the King James Bible:

https://http://creationliberty.com/articles/kingjames.php

God promised to preserve His word, and His word HAS been preserved in the KJV Bible. People who claim that we can't know what the perfect Word of God is today are calling God a liar.

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 01:43:50 PM »
There really is no need to delve into all of this stuff. I suggest you guys read the article on the CLE website entitled Why I Use the King James Bible:

https://http://creationliberty.com/articles/kingjames.php

God promised to preserve His word, and His word HAS been preserved in the KJV Bible. People who claim that we can't know what the perfect Word of God is today are calling God a liar.

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Agreed Jeanne ... insofar as our own personal edification goes.  However when trying to help others who may be taken in by the deceivers ... knowledge of the enemy is useful.

Beyond that,  studying of language is beneficial.  In the King James, for instance, the word 'charity' is used where we modern English users might think 'love' more accurate.  However .... in 17th century English 'charity' had a very different meaning than what we define the word to mean today.  It specifically meant ... Christian love.  That is exactly what it meant to those minds of that day. 

There is no way to know that by simply reading and studying the KJB itself. 

strangersmind

  • Born Again Christians
  • Disciplined (Forum LVL 5)
  • *
  • Posts: 533
  • Edification: 23
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Billy
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Philippines
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 03:52:35 PM »
How did you come up with the definition of words in 1700s

Jeanne

  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 1538
  • Edification: 125
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Jeanne
  • Belief: Other
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2019, 04:02:38 PM »
The Bible does a pretty good job of defining words for itself, though, for those who are willing to read and study enough to figure it out.

If you're really stumped about a word you're actually unfamiliar with, however, Noah Webster based his 1828 dictionary on the meaning of words as used in the KJB. Even though it's not perfect and he did make mistakes, it is still a good reference to use when there are questions about definitions. And it's free to read online.

https://http://webstersdictionary1828.com/

There are also online etymology resources available that give the origins and history of words used in the English language.

As for me, I see no need for anyone to go messing with the perfectly preserved Word of God as we already have it.

Reed Scott

  • Guest
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2019, 04:23:41 PM »

As for me, I see no need for anyone to go messing with the perfectly preserved Word of God as we already have it.

Yes.  This was the theme and intention in my creating this thread.

Reed Scott

  • Guest

Timotheus

  • BANNED
  • Newly Registered (Forum LVL 0)
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Edification: -2
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Timotheus
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: NM
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2019, 11:04:51 PM »
The Bible does a pretty good job of defining words for itself, though, for those who are willing to read and study enough to figure it out.

If you're really stumped about a word you're actually unfamiliar with, however, Noah Webster based his 1828 dictionary on the meaning of words as used in the KJB. Even though it's not perfect and he did make mistakes, it is still a good reference to use when there are questions about definitions. And it's free to read online.

https://http://webstersdictionary1828.com/

There are also online etymology resources available that give the origins and history of words used in the English language.

As for me, I see no need for anyone to go messing with the perfectly preserved Word of God as we already have it.

Elsewhere on this forum Christopher seems to be adverse to utilizing Webster. So far no one seems to be on the same page here...

Jeanne

  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 1538
  • Edification: 125
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Jeanne
  • Belief: Other
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2019, 11:53:58 PM »
Chris has and does use the 1828 Webster dictionary. All he did was to warn people that it's not perfect and that there are errors in it and to be cautious not to trust everything it says. On the whole, it is a good resource but, as with all men, including Chris, Noah Webster was not infallible.

Timotheus

  • BANNED
  • Newly Registered (Forum LVL 0)
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Edification: -2
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Timotheus
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: NM
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2019, 02:20:12 AM »
That would include you and Christopher as well, would it not?

Little do you probably know that Noah Webster, being proficient in nine languages, comprehending the biblical ones, revised the English of the AV for use in American schools around 1833. I consider it a marvelous version. Moreover, the 1828 edition was not his final dictionary, in fact he greatly improved upon it. If I would offer up any criticism it would be this: that modern-day "American" churchianity has failed miserably, leaving the world to marvel at its arrogance and ignorance. Noah Webster was a fine Christian man. I wonder what he would rebutt with against such unfair charges?

creationliberty

  • Administrator
  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 3806
  • Edification: 459
    • View Profile
    • Creation Liberty Evangelism
  • First Name: Christopher
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Indiana
Re: The So Called Majority Text Is Not The Textus Receptus
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2019, 08:33:51 AM »
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons... But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
-James 2:1-9

Respecting Persons Is Sin
I agree with Jeanne's assessment, and you ignored the facts that I presented. If you want to put your faith in Noah Webster, you are free to do so, but if he were still alive, he would probably rebuke you for it, just like the rest of us here would do.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18