Author Topic: Titles in Scripture?  (Read 12766 times)

Kenneth Winslow

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Titles in Scripture?
« on: June 04, 2019, 02:27:29 PM »
Is there anyone in scripture, other than the Lord Jesus Christ and king David, who has a title?
(I noticed that king David in scripture uses a lowercase k. So I'm not sure if that is actually a title as we tend to use them today.)
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 04:03:34 PM »
Throughout Scripture, as far as I understand, titles were only given to those in ruling positions of government, and that was for the express purpose of honoring those who are, for all intents and purposes, supposed to punish evildoers and give restitution to the victims of crimes. Outside of God, and family elders (e.g. one's own mother and father), which are pretty much self-evident, they are the only ones who are Biblically mandated to have honorifics for their public service. I am unaware of any other title that was justified in Scripture.
Titles Are Unbiblical in the Church

If someone requests it in a non-religious sense, I usually, personally don't have a problem with it. Like how I call our doctor "Dr. ******" in his office because he has to maintain authority in his place of business so others respect his medical advice. So there are exceptions on case-by-case situations, lest we offend them needlessly.

There's also instances of authority recognized between husband and wife, like in the case that women would sometimes call their husband "Lord" because he is in authority over her.

I'm glad to be corrected on that if I'm wrong because I don't want to teach the wrong thing. I'm not the expert of all things in the Bible, and I'm learning new things every day, so it is possible there is something I missed.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 04:07:40 PM by creationliberty »
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strangersmind

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 05:48:50 PM »
Is the word fool In bible given as a title

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2019, 05:54:14 PM »
Is the word fool In bible given as a title

Example please.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Jeanne

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2019, 10:40:17 PM »
There is nowhere in the Bible that 'fool' is used as a title. Calling someone a fool is not a title. Just as the Bible does not say Apostle Paul or Brother/Bishop/whatever so-and-so, it never uses Fool so-and-so, either.

anvilhauler

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 12:07:23 AM »
There is nowhere in the Bible that 'fool' is used as a title. Calling someone a fool is not a title. Just as the Bible does not say Apostle Paul or Brother/Bishop/whatever so-and-so, it never uses Fool so-and-so, either.


Matthew 5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
22 but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


So, no, not a title that should be bestowed upon a person  :o
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 08:12:51 AM »
It looks like, so far, the answer is no.
Men are not addressed with titles in Scripture.
That is interesting because in our untoward generation men are given titles left and right. Doctor, professor, officer, etc.. It's almost as if in our society if you don't have some sort of it man-given title you really do haven much of a standing.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 09:38:09 AM »
Let's all slow down for a moment. A title is a name by which someone is known, not a general description, or in this case it might be more aptly referred to as "an appellation of dignity, distinction or pre-eminence given to persons." For example, God is merciful; that's a description. However, if I call Him, The Merciful God, that is a title. I'm not saying it's wrong to discuss the details, but these are pretty basic things we all ought to know from our childhood.

When Jesus called men hypocrites, that was not a name, like when people call it "name-calling" to try and dilute the truth of His words. It's an apt description of the truth. One could say "Chris is a fool" if it is true, but to call me "Chris the Fool" is not a Biblical approach.

Thus, for another example, Kenneth is my brother in Christ, but he is not "Brother Kenneth." However, the problem is when we get into quoting a Scripture of a description and referencing that to titles, it starts to get confusing, especially when that is taken out of context.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
-Mat 5:22

I studied this for a long time because it confused me a lot when I was first reading it as a new Christian. I always thought it was dangerous to call someone a fool. However, today, I understand what this is saying, and I can confidently say that Steven Anderson is a fool.
A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
-Pro 14:16


The judgment is referring to the judgment of God because to be angry with one's brother without a cause is the result of a murderer at heart.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
-1Jo 3:15

(This would be hatred without a cause, and that we are not to let the sun go down on our anger; taking precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.)

However, the council is the judgment of men in the government. If you continue to read verses 23 and 24, you'll see that this is in reference to a man that has done wrong against his brother, which would be a neighbor in this instance since the Jews were all brethren in this sense.

So a man did his neighbor wrong, and then when he is brought before the council for judgment, he says "Raca" which is a Jewish name for a fool, to his accuser, the council will judge him harshly. However, if he says "thou fool" to the council, who are judging him in righteous judgment for his crimes, he's in danger of hellfire--why?

The reason is because he's such a reprobate, one who is given over to his sin, he would not repent brother to brother, he would not repent in a courtroom, and then further proceeds to accuse a judge in his own foolishness and wickedness; the man has his conscience seared with a hot iron, and thus, he is in danger of hellfire because without repentance, he cannot be saved.

So... the rest should now make more sense:
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
-Mat 5:23-26


That's fines and jail time for whatever the man did wrong. To commit a crime against others, to cause them grief and suffering, and then call the judge a fool; yeah, that man is in danger of hellfire because of the pride of his heart.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

anvilhauler

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 04:17:56 PM »
We have titles in our society without really even noticing it because it is a part of everyday life.  Mr, Mrs, Miss & Master.  I don't have a problem with adult women wishing to refer to themselves as Ms, as it gives a differentiation between a junior (Miss) and an adult.

There have been a couple of times in certain situations that I have carefully and with a smile told children that although their father and mother call me by my first name it is more correct that they call me Mr Crump. 

re: (This would be hatred without a cause, and that we are not to let the sun go down on our anger; taking precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.)  I might be wrong but I'm thinking the phrase "the sun go down on our anger" might be a carry over from false versions of the Bible.

Ephesians 4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 neither give place to the devil.


Wow, that was one that my ex-wife used to use all the time.  She was a prolific liar etc and when confronted about any of her behaviour she would refuse to own up and be honest.  Because issues were then still required to be dealt with the following day, when brought up she would run off to the evil "pastors" and others and claim that I had let the sun go down on my anger.  No prizes for guessing who was found to be in the wrong.  In their tiny minds no-one should be standing trial or required to own up to things that happened on previous days   .....  but that rule only applied to me though.  The vast majority of the people here in the "churches" can be added on to the list of fools.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

strangersmind

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2019, 04:34:51 PM »
I can't give any examples I should of try to find one before posting that.

Jeanne

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 04:46:50 PM »
Quote
In their tiny minds no-one should be standing trial or required to own up to things that happened on previous days

By that logic, no one should ever have to stand trial for serious crimes like robbery, assault, rape, or murder, either. They just threw the whole justice system out the window.

anvilhauler

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 06:32:01 PM »
Quote
In their tiny minds no-one should be standing trial or required to own up to things that happened on previous days

By that logic, no one should ever have to stand trial for serious crimes like robbery, assault, rape, or murder, either. They just threw the whole justice system out the window.

It only applied to me though because they hated me without cause.  When I would try to expand on the folly of their reasoning they would only resort to fits of rage and name calling and then a refusal to talk any further about the matter.  If it wasn't for my having children I would have easily given my wife a certificate of divorce and then walked away from the whole lot of them. 

I don't think they understand that all they have said and done is going to be brought before them in judgement.  They have a view that accepting Christ is a big celestial insurance policy in the sky that covers all kinds of wrong doing and they have immediate entry in to Heaven because they have accepted that Jesus died on the cross for them.  One dares not to try to tell them otherwise.

Vipers!!
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2019, 04:35:31 PM »
This got me thinking about how I taught my boys to refer to people, even some of my own friends as Mr. or Mrs. . .  But we don't do the Sister/Brother thing.  I haven't in a very long time.  I can see where that is not Biblical.
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:13

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 08:16:13 AM »
Acts 9:17 KJV  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, 👉Brother Saul👈, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

It is likely that this is the only time this happens in Scripture.
To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of this yet.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 10:38:05 AM »
I discussed all that here:
Titles Are Unbiblical in the Church
Context is key. Ananias was speaking to Paul in an official capacity in which He was commanded by God directly to go to him. Paul was stricken blind for three days, so he couldn't see anyone. The purpose of this was the declaration of Paul's conversion before Ananias had met and spoken with him. This declared the facts before meeting him, which let him know that this was the man sent by God to direct him in the way he should go, but such things were NEVER repeated as an example of what the church ought to be doing on a daily basis.

As I also discussed in the teaching, Acts 9:17 is not the Scripture to address with people who make the argument for titles. They are taking that one verse out of its context. Rather, take them to Romans 16 and ask them about their argument, namely, why did Paul not repeat the "titles tradition" he was supposedly given by Ananias with the entire church:
Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us. Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. Greet Amplias my beloved in the Lord. Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved. Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household. Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord. Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord. Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine. Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them. Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.
-Romans 16:4-15


Furthermore, why will you not find it done by any other author in the New Testament when addressing members of the church? Why don't you find it when they announce themselves; why do they say the are "called to be an apostle," but not refer to themselves as "Apostle [insert name]"? They never referred to themselves in that way either, let alone everyone else.

Again, if they used those titles in the church in the New Testament, I would follow their example, but because they don't do it, I still follow their example, and from the new teachings I've been doing on pride, that ought to give everyone more reason why we ought not to do it in the first place because with titles comes a sash of pride, and when you meet a person who has not come to repentance in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you try to tell them the truth after they've been called "Brother So-n-so" for years, it's almost impossible to get them to hear the truth because they are blinded by their pride.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2019, 10:48:17 AM »
Great explanation!  Thank you!
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:13

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2019, 10:59:21 AM »
Thank you for that clear and comprehensive explanation, Chris.
I probably should have stated more clearly that I didn't have an explanation for Ananias referring to him as "Brother Paul", YET.
But now I do.

When I think of someone using Acts 9:17 to justify Christians using titles to address one another it makes me think of people who use Acts 28:3-4 to justify handling poisonous snakes as some sort of demonstration of faith.

Acts 28:3-4 KJV  And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.

Christians who try and support their doctrines and behavior from a single verse of scripture oftentimes end up with serious problems.

Isaiah 28:13 KJV  But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.


Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 02:43:43 PM »
Yeah, Paul was not putting on a magic show in a church building when that happened, nor did he allow himself to be worshiped for it.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2019, 02:53:09 PM »
Yeah, Paul was not putting on a magic show in a church building when that happened, nor did he allow himself to be worshiped for it.

Yes, and Paul didn't keel over and die either. I've seen where those Church buildings have pictures of those who have died because of their foolish and misguided cherry picking of scripture.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

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Re: Titles in Scripture?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 06:30:09 PM »
Personally, I've had a mind to go into those church buildings that have the pews with the little gold plaques on the back that has the names of who donated the money for the pews on them, and put a little sticker underneath each one:
Verily I say unto you,
They have their reward.
-Mat 6:2
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18