Creation Ministries International defends Christmas (Badly)

[Jeanne]

A 5-second internet search on 'yule log' turned up this wikipedia excerpt right off:

'The Yule log, Yule clog, or Christmas block is a specially selected log burnt on a hearth as a Christmas tradition in a number of countries in Europe. The origin of the folk custom is unclear. Numerous scholars have observed that, like other traditions associated with Yule, the custom may ultimately derive from Germanic paganism.'

The other articles mostly referred to recipes so I didn't bother with them.

But in Chris' article/book on Christmas, he cites numerous books by Wiccan/witch authors who readily admit to Yule being the same holiday as the Roman pagan Saturnalia. Church goers just don't seem to want to accept that, though, especially if they make money off the holiday.

[Zoologistkid]

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8: 31-32

In this case, the truth will set you free but not free from the insanity that is the defenders of Christmas! "Don't forget to buy Creation Magazine". You're not helping the belief that Creationists are like vampires and vultures when it comes to money.

[Kenneth Winslow]

"We love God and don't forget to buy our magazine".

Matthew 6:24 KJV  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

[creationliberty]

This is either poorly researched or deceptive and dishonest.  I noticed they repeated the same line that it is a new fad to expose the heathen roots of christmas.  They also flat out lied when they said that the 25th of December was only celebrated after Jesus's death.

Hmm... I'm not sure that's a lie, but it's deceptive. The solstice celebration was (I think) the 17th-24th, putting the shortest day of the year (21st) in the middle. The 25th is the day after that, and so that wasn't celebrated until around 400 A.D. So technically, yes, it was celebrated only after the death of Jesus, but they're deceiving people because (I'm presuming, since I haven't read what you're talking about) they'll argue that the early first Christians started celebrating it after 33 A.D., and if they argue that, then that would be a lie.

[Zoologistkid]

The worst part is the fact that Church Goers accepted these arguments without question. It is pretty sad when people are praising because they can celebrate these pagan festivals without guilt or worry.

[jtoubeaux]

I just picked up after re-watching their video that CMI said the Bible neither commands or forbids celebrating Christmas so Christians can either celebrate it or ignore it as long as the means of celebration are not unscriptural. Then they mention the "genetic fallacy" by equating even if Christmas came from paganism, pagan celebrations=Christmas celebrations to chemist Friedrich Kekule's dream of a snake wrapped in its own tale=correct ring structure of the Benzyne molecule, and because chemists don't need to worry about correct snake biology or dream psychology to analyze Benzyne, they yuck it up about how the rightness or wrongness of Christmas celebrations are independent of the truth or falsity of their supposed pagan parallell - and besides, the claim that Christmas is based on pagan tradition is not supported historically.

The worst part is the fact that Church Goers accepted these arguments without question. It is pretty sad when people are praising because they can celebrate these pagan festivals without guilt or worry.

here are two youtube viewer replies: You all should do a similar program for Easter and its so called pagan roots. and Great video! I want get magazine.

[Kenneth Winslow]

Then they mention the "genetic fallacy" by equating even if Christmas came from paganism, pagan celebrations=Christmas celebrations to chemist Friedrich Kekule's dream of a snake wrapped in its own tale=correct ring structure of the Benzyne molecule, and because chemists don't need to worry about correct snake biology or dream psychology to analyze Benzyne, they yuck it up about how the rightness or wrongness of Christmas celebrations are independent of the truth or falsity of their supposed pagan parallell

These Creation people do err when comparing physical things (the benzine molecule) with spiritual things (like Christmas). How's that for a logical fallacy?

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 KJV

[Chris]

Hmm... I'm not sure that's a lie, but it's deceptive. The solstice celebration was (I think) the 17th-24th, putting the shortest day of the year (21st) in the middle. The 25th is the day after that, and so that wasn't celebrated until around 400 A.D. So technically, yes, it was celebrated only after the death of Jesus, but they're deceiving people because (I'm presuming, since I haven't read what you're talking about) they'll argue that the early first Christians started celebrating it after 33 A.D., and if they argue that, then that would be a lie.

Thanks for the info, Chris.  I had forgotten the specific dates.  I definitely need to brush up on this teaching.  I remember thinking that all of these December festivals were the same.  I had done a quick google search the other day and found the information below from history channel's website.

"The pagan celebration of Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture and time, began as a single day, but by the late Republic (133-31 B.C.) it had expanded to a weeklong festival beginning December 17. (On the Julian calendar, which the Romans used at the time, the winter solstice fell on December 25.)"

I don't know anything about the Julian calendar or the validity of the claims made.  It would be interesting if true and would make more sense why they chose the 25th to be the day of their "new" christmas celebration.

Have you come across this claim in your research?

[Zoologistkid]

Chris, what do you think of CMI's defense?

[Chris]

I believe they are ignorant of the pagan aspects in today's celebrations, or they are very deceptive.  I believe there are more fundamental issues with this ministry.  I used to enjoy hearing their defense of Genesis, but if you examine their teachings you will find that they also doubt Genesis.

If you look at CMI's "what we believe" section you will find the quote below:

"The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout."

Sounds good huh?  I'm confused when I find new age bible versions in their teachings.  Are they aware of the lies in these versions.  If you don't truly believe that God's word is inherent and preserved, you cannot know what Genesis actually says.

I repeat what I said before.  They are either ignorant of what they claim to believe or they are being dishonest.

[Zoologistkid]

What do you mean they doubt Genesis? I'm not surprised, though because of all the dumb stuff they have taught: "Dinosaurs are most assuredly extinct" "Dinosaur and human footprints are all fakes" "You can be a Christain and deny his word/believe in evolution". Not to mention they never rebuke teachers or call them out to false teachers, they say be careful around him but he has done good and he is a Christian still. Really?

[Chris]

What do you mean they doubt Genesis?

By using versions that contain error, they are not only doubting Genesis, but the entire bible's authority comes into question.  If there is found a clear error, who decides which parts are correct? The pope? The fact is that God's word is preserved and can be read in the KJB.  That is the only way that scripture can have ultimate authority.

[Zoologistkid]

Thanks, I misunderstood you a little. They also bow under the rule of Catholics and defend them when they have a chance.

[jtoubeaux]

I'm confused when I find new age bible versions in their teachings.

They use the ESV when quoting 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Note the differences:


ESV: 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work.

KJV: 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

[LABcrab]

I first heard of Creation.com while searching for articles for my Counterfeit Christian Cinema series. I made a note that I only supported one particular article they wrote in opposition to the God's Not Dead film, and that I was concerned about their merchandising. It's sad that while they rightly oppose that film, they support pagan holidays like Christmas. I will have to look elsewhere in the future for Christian articles.

[Zoologistkid]

Aren't all creationist organizations like that? They may say one or two things "good" but they are so full of leaven.