Universal Health Care Unveiled

[creationliberty]

I'm usually not into talking about this issue much because, outside of a chiropractor, the only trip to the doctor Lorraine and I take is to renew her contact prescription about once a year. We've been married nine years, and that's the only doctor visits we've had to have, thank God. But part of the reason I don't like getting into this subject is because it's all theory, theory, theory. However, while I was doing research for my writing this morning, I found this video, and it was an undercover look into the reality of universal health care in Canada, to the point that, you'll see that Canadian health care officials, who are on tax-funded government payroll, suggest that patients to go to a privatized (non-tax-funded) clinic.

[Jeanne]

I haven't watched the video yet as I'm about to go do my deliveries but socialised medicine is really rationed medicine. For any type of surgery, you have to get on a waiting list and the government decides who gets treated first.

[Dee Babbitt]

... socialised medicine is really rationed medicine. For any type of surgery, you have to get on a waiting list and the government decides who gets treated first.

yup, this happened to my cousin in the province of Alberta, Canada... she was in so much pain and couldn't walk, she needed surgery on one of her knees, and was put on a list
(it was six months before they would do her surgery.)

this is absolutely awful :-(

[Jeanne]

I've watched the video now, and yes, things are pretty much the same here in Australia, too. Rick was in severe pain and could barely get out of bed for SIX YEARS before he finally had back surgery. He was on enough morphine to kill a horse during that time. Up to 400 mg/day. He had Targin, OxyContin and OxyNorm.

Our GST is 10% and it gets paid during every step of the manufacturing process. Raw materials are taxed and so are finished goods. Petrol prices are around $1.40/litre. I called the local dental clinic because I have a cavity and was told the wait would be at least two years.

[anvilhauler]

Petrol prices are around $1.40/litre.

Wow, your petrol is so cheap.  We pay about $2.49/litre here for 95/96 octane.

I just did the conversion to US gallons and that makes it NZ$9.43/US gallon or roughly US$13.67/US gallon.  I'm sure the cost is way less than $13.67 per gallon in the USA. 

[anvilhauler]

I just watched the video.  A few of the things I wrote about are mentioned in it. 

We have the universally funded healthcare in New Zealand but you can go private if you wish to.  Many of the small injuries etc require the person to visit the emergency doctors which you have to pay for and not Accident & Emergency as the injuries aren't critical.  When I worked in A&E in Christchurch Hospital in the early '80's we used to get all sorts of people coming in with conditions that needed to be seen by their General Practitioner and not the Emergency Department.

I don't think many people realise that to be seen by the doctor very quickly and to receive the best care is to speak and act very courteously to the staff.  I know as I have worked in the department.  A part of the triage is assessing the person's attitude.  I see in the video a guy asking how long the wait might be.  Err   ......   I would never do that.  The moment someone asks a question like that, and it is a question that has no answer, (how long is a piece of string), the person doing the triage will just think "Oh well, you can wait".  What's the big rush to be seen usually anyway   .....  is there something important on TV.  Oh you poor sausage, you had to wait and were in a small amount of discomfort   .....  try joining the army as a soldier and being out observing or on patrols in raining and freezing cold weather for way longer than the small amount of time they might have to wait in a nice warm waiting room  .....  or think about the freedom you have for which bomber pilots and fighter pilots went out day after day never knowing if they were ever going to be coming home or if they did they might have serious injuries for the rest of their lives  ......   or try reading the Bible and what others have had to live through   ......  they might then be grateful and never complain again.

Much of what I saw in A&E wasn't just the injury the person had their problem was themselves and the lifestyle they lived.  Alcohol, drugs, smoking, reckless driving and all sorts of behaviours that had no potential for anything useful for either themselves or the wider society. 

[anvilhauler]

... socialised medicine is really rationed medicine. For any type of surgery, you have to get on a waiting list and the government decides who gets treated first.

yup, this happened to my cousin in the province of Alberta, Canada... she was in so much pain and couldn't walk, she needed surgery on one of her knees, and was put on a list
(it was six months before they would do her surgery.)

this is absolutely awful :-(

The bad part is that the person can be all ready and set for surgery and even gone through the pre-op and then the surgeon has to come along and say "I'm sorry, there has been a serious car crash and so we will not be performing your operation today.  Sorry".  All it takes is the carelessness of others and they take it as a granted right to have hospital treatment but they never get to see those who just missed out on surgery because of their stupidity.

[Jeanne]

I think I had to wait about 7 hours or so when I fell and shattered my wrist a number of years ago. I got triaged pretty quickly but then had to wait ages for them to do anything about it.

[anvilhauler]

Petrol prices are around $1.40/litre.

Wow, your petrol is so cheap.  We pay about $2.49/litre here for 95/96 octane.

I just did the conversion to US gallons and that makes it NZ$9.43/US gallon or roughly US$13.67/US gallon.  I'm sure the cost is way less than $13.67 per gallon in the USA.

Ooops, I went the  wrong way.  US$6.51/US gallon.

[Chris]

I remember hearing about this case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/07/06/american-hospital-offers-to-admit-charlie-gard-british-baby-at-center-of-life-support-controversy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.215f99b7afdb

This is the consequence of socialized (rationed) health care.  The government can decide that your child is not worth investing in.  Other hospitals were willing to help, but that would violate their laws.  Liberals take pleasure in policy that leads to the death of children and say that Christians are immoral.  This can only be explained through a biblical understanding.

Isaiah 5:20 KJV
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Matthew 24:12 KJV
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

[Caleb]

Wow, I've watched this a long time ago.  I'm subscribed to his channel.  He has also went undercover in Planned Parenthood facilities.

[anvilhauler]

I remember hearing about this case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/07/06/american-hospital-offers-to-admit-charlie-gard-british-baby-at-center-of-life-support-controversy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.215f99b7afdb

This is the consequence of socialized (rationed) health care.  The government can decide that your child is not worth investing in.  Other hospitals were willing to help, but that would violate their laws.  Liberals take pleasure in policy that leads to the death of children and say that Christians are immoral.  This can only be explained through a biblical understanding.

Isaiah 5:20 KJV
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Matthew 24:12 KJV
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Unfortunately there does come a time when it is best to give up treatment and allow a child to die with dignity and without further suffering.  When a baby is born with severe genetic problems, if kept alive they are likely to have a very poor quality of life and can only be kept alive at the expense of others who also need access to medical care and with the limited amount of funding and medical staff time that any nation can allocate. 

Can I comment? 

I feel I can on this matter.  My youngest son was born with X-linked myotubular myopathy and was kept alive until a full evaluation of the condition could be determined and then after nine days we had a discussion with the pediatrician and it was agreed that the best option was to turn off the life support and allow him to die. 

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;

a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

a time to cast away stones,
and a time to gather stones together;

a time to embrace,
and a time to refrain from embracing;

a time to get, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

a time to rend, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time of war, and a time of peace.

[creationliberty]

That's an interesting point Kevin because even though Jesus said it is better to save life than to kill, if we went back in time a hundred years, without modern devices to keep a man's heart beating, would they have lived? Either way, if God had decided for your son to be healthy, nothing would have stopped his healing. I'm not sure what the correct decision was, but I dare not judge you for your convictions, nor would I dare to judge you from my lack of experience on the matter, so I pray that you're blessed richly with wisdom and understanding by it.

[Jeanne]

I think there's a big difference between actually killing someone and allowing them to die. I don't believe turning off life support counts as killing unless there is a reasonable chance the person

This brings back memories of the Terri Schiavo case nearly 20 years ago. I had a lot of trouble reconciling that one and I'm still not sure that the decision to remove her feeding tube was the right thing to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

[Dee Babbitt]

Oh Kevin, this is heart-breaking to hear that you lost a child.  Thankfully, you have the Peace of God, and can go to Him for His Comfort.
 
(We know five families who have lost a child--one in Spain, one in Canada, and three in the U.S.-- and have seen how painful this is.)

May God continually give you His Peace and Comfort.


These are Bible verses that are helpful to me.

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Matthew 5:4 - Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Isaiah 41:10 - Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Matthew 19:14 - But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Psalms 34:18 - The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Romans 8:18 - For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 - Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;   (Read More...)

John 14:1-4 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.   (Read More...)

Romans 5:1-21 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:   (Read More...)

Matthew 18:14 - Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

John 16:20-23 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

[strangersmind]

I at times wish I would have been one of the children who died at such a young age. To be able to skip this world and to be with are father in heaven is such a blessing to me.

[strangersmind]

Here in the Philippines you have to pay for your trip to hospital. I took a trip to hospital when I crash the bike and only pay for all what they did 7 dollars. In America to fix 1 tooth would cost me 300 plus but here it cost 4 dollars. O and 1 litre of fuel is 1 dollar

[anvilhauler]

Oh Kevin, this is heart-breaking to hear that you lost a child.  Thankfully, you have the Peace of God, and can go to Him for His Comfort.
 
(We know five families who have lost a child--one in Spain, one in Canada, and three in the U.S.-- and have seen how painful this is.)

May God continually give you His Peace and Comfort.


These are Bible verses that are helpful to me.

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Matthew 5:4 - Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Isaiah 41:10 - Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Matthew 19:14 - But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Psalms 34:18 - The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Romans 8:18 - For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 - Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;   (Read More...)

John 14:1-4 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.   (Read More...)

Romans 5:1-21 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:   (Read More...)

Matthew 18:14 - Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

John 16:20-23 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Thanks Dee.  It was a very rough time back then but things are all better now    It was much worse when my ex-wife took my other two kids to the other end of the country to live.  I went through many black years back then   .....  and I thought I would never ever recover   .....  and thanks to God I have recovered.  I give God 100% credit for my recovery.  My two kids are totally out of touch with me now but I'm OK and there is no heartache anymore.

I think there's a big difference between actually killing someone and allowing them to die. I don't believe turning off life support counts as killing unless there is a reasonable chance the person

They did everything they could to save Matthew but he wasn't able to breathe.  Many times they took him off the ventilator to try to get him to be able to breathe on his own but that was never happening.  Every day on the ventilator means the diaphragm isn't being used and strengthened and is also getting weaker like any other muscle that is not used.  Other test results were coming back too   .....  some from Melbourne where you live Jeanne   ......   and the test results showed multiple problems.

[Laura]

These stories are very sad, the government deciding who can receive care and the extreme waiting time for those deemed worthy to receive it. I hope that doesn't happen in the US. It's hard to imagine it considering how much of a business privatized care is for hospitals, insurance companies, and other "sick care" institutions. A hospital in my area is starting to monopolize, buying out local small-town hospitals, urgent care facilities, and doctor offices. Their main campus is also expanding, with huge new buildings going up every year. I know the older generation is growing with the baby boomers, but I don't think it's a good thing when these types of places are consolidating and expanding. Obviously, some of it might be necessary to be able to care for the growing population, but I think so much of it is the result of the sick cycle due to the food and pharmaceutical industries. Overall, people aren't getting better. Just look at how much the US spends on healthcare. I think we spend the most, yet we are the sickest. The video was very eye opening regarding socialized healthcare. How can anyone think that system is a good one to model? It's no secret that government agencies are inefficient. Universal healthcare is not the answer, but the I understand the cost of privatized is out of control too.

[Laura]

I just realized that perhaps my statement about how much we spend as a country compared to other countries is unfair if we are comparing those with socialized healthcare to those with privatized. I don't recall what countries were represented in the graphs I saw in the past. Clearly, countries like Canada are not spending enough to properly care for their citizens. Also, while I think that a lot of our illnesses can be prevented, I am very thankful for our ability to access care. We have all probably needed to utilize the healthcare system ourselves at some point in our lives or known someone close who has. Ultimately though, God will heal the sick if that is His will.

Kevin, I cannot imagine the pain you must have gone through in losing a child, and then having the others move away. I'm glad the good Lord has saved you!