Author Topic: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"  (Read 11051 times)

oregontaxman

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Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« on: April 25, 2019, 10:42:26 PM »
Good evening,

A few days ago I happened to find on Youtube the 2 videos you posted concerning 501 (C) (3) issues. 

As my user name shows, I have been blessed with a skill of understanding taxes!  I will refrain from posting my resume, but suffice to say I have been given a skill. 

I have read many times 1 Peter 4:10 "Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms."  In my case, my skill is TAXES!!  Read on for the GOOD news.  Matthew 17:26 teaches us, in part, that "the children are exempt"!  Praise Jesus!

After a number of years working as an auditor for an Oregon state agency, I was given the chance to take my retirement account a couple years early.  Upon exiting the door, my thoughts immediately turned to finally being able to Serve Jesus with my new found "free" time (aka - retirement). But where to serve?

The answer to that is, "I choose to serve Jesus by sharing my tax skills with such christian brothers and sisters, and pastoral / elder / administration members that need help with navigating the complex maze of tax laws. 

Now, on the specific topic of 501(c) (3), that has been my niche for many years.  I enjoy helping church staff develop various "what if" questions as related to taxes.  I watched the Youtube videos with fascination and have found myself drawn here to respond.

Your article missed several key points which I believe need to be expanded upon.  I look forward to submitting several posts for discussion, with the hope that by using my God given skill, I can serve in His Kingdom by helping fellow Christians come to terms with taxing issues.

I look forward to serving Christ.  Please let me know if I may serve you.

Ken

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 11:20:41 PM »
You said you watched the videos but have you actually gone through and read the article on the CLE website? It was updated extensively after those videos were made.

https://http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/501c3.php

501(c)(3) churches also depend almost exclusively on 'tithes' to exist.

https://http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/tithe.php

What really irks me about these church buildings that take in all this money from 'tithes and offerings' and spend it on their fancy buildings, supporting missions and other things like that but ignore their own congregations. If a church member has a genuine need, such as catastrophic medical bills, loss of income due to accident or maybe they lost everything due to a fire or natural disaster what does the church do for them? Some members might get together and do a fund-raiser or something, but under your tax laws, would the church be able to directly assist these people who genuinely need it?

creationliberty

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 02:06:22 AM »
Your article missed several key points which I believe need to be expanded upon.  I look forward to submitting several posts for discussion, with the hope that by using my God given skill, I can serve in His Kingdom by helping fellow Christians come to terms with taxing issues.
I'm not interested because your introduction was missing several key points that a real born again Christian would state, which I believe needs to be expanded upon, and with the hope that, by using my God-given skill of discernment and understanding, I can serve in His Kingdom by helping fellow Christians see that you are a scam artist. Yet, there is hope, because you can be forgiven of the sin of your wicked heart if you come to repentance.

Ken, the problem is that you've never had grief and godly sorrow for your sins. This is the core problem:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?

There are many things you don't realize that you already revealed about yourself in just your first short post; that you've shown more than you might have realized.
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
-Mat 12;34

I can already tell that you don't understand the matter you're speaking about, despite all puffy words about your alleged "education," but without understanding of repentance and remission of sins (Luke 24:47), you're following a false jesus, not the Jesus Christ of Scripture.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 02:58:43 AM »
The quoted scripture was also concerning tribute money and not taxes.  Tribute money was taken from strangers and taxes are taken from the general population of those governing. 

Matthew 17 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? 25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


Count me in with those who are not interested.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

creationliberty

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 09:16:48 AM »
The quoted scripture was also concerning tribute money and not taxes.  Tribute money was taken from strangers and taxes are taken from the general population of those governing. 
That's a good point, and I noticed that he made that mistake too. It's obvious he's a product of a lot of pastoral indoctrination. The reason I didn't mention it in my post is because I'm already convinced he won't listen to a word we say, and this will likely be a waste of time, so I addressed him on the core problem (i.e. his lack of repentance) rather than the facade he assumes is the problem. However, for anyone else reading these posts, who want to know the difference between tribute (i.e. not taxes) and custom (i.e. taxes), I cover that in this teaching:
False Doctrine: Unlimited Submission to Government

By the way, he's also using 1Pe 4:10 out of context. The gift being referred to in that verse is the gift of grace of forgiveness by Jesus Christ, not a "skill of TAXES."
But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. Use hospitality one to another without grudging. As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
-1Pe 4:7-11

If the context Ken was using that was true, then every man who was saved would have the "gift of TAXES." That's unbelievably ridiculous, but Ken's absurdities help us see that he does not understand the Word of God.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
-2Pe 3:16

wrest: to distort; to turn from truth or twist from its natural meaning
That gives us evidence that he's not the seed that fell on good ground, because those are they who hear the Word of God AND understand it, which cannot be understood without the Holy Spirit in them.
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
-Mat 13:23
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 09:30:54 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 12:25:34 PM »
Ken, the problem is that you've never had grief and godly sorrow for your sins. This is the core problem:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?


When I first joined this forum I would have reservations about your quick judgement.  However, I know now that you are frequently attacked by false converts and railers.  I understand that Christians should judge all things and hold to that which is good.  I am thankful that you share examples that show exercising of discernment.


Hebrews 5:14 KJV
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Caleb

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 05:43:49 PM »
I certainly hope Ken humbles himself and does listen to everyone here.  2 Timothy 3:16; "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  Of course, no one likes to be reproofed or corrected;  James 4:10, "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up."

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 06:25:13 PM »
Of course, no one likes to be reproofed or corrected; 

I agree in general terms, but this is not a biblical statement.


Proverbs 9:8 KJV
Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Proverbs 25:12 KJV
As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.



If someone is offended by reproof, it is bad fruit.  If you look at Johnson's correction to his statement concerning Jesus and the Father being one, you will see a good example of how reproof is supposed to work in the Church.


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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 07:17:24 PM »
Chris,

My statement of, "no one likes to be reproofed or corrected," was not meant to be a Biblical statement.  We as Christians are not suppose to hate reproof or correction, but that doesn't mean we still didn't like it.  That's the conviction in us.  I hope that cleared up any confusion.  I'm fully aware how important it is for the Church, which is why I had to get out of my dad's church.  My dad's church doesn't care about reproof nor correction, especially when I was the one giving it.

Chris

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2019, 08:51:04 PM »
Caleb,

I figured you were using an expression.  I think we are in general agreement, but I think there is an important distinction.

We as Christians are not suppose to hate reproof or correction, but that doesn't mean we still didn't like it. 

It sounds like you are repeating the line of nobody likes reproof.  The bible says we ought to love correction.  If you love Christ, you should love hearing how to serve better.  I understand that the natural reaction is far from this, but it is not correct to say nobody.


Proverbs 12:1 KJV
Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.



This is a clear statement that those that love knowledge  love instruction (reproof).  Again, I hope you are just using an expression, but it is important to understand the difference. 

Caleb

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2019, 09:48:53 PM »
Chris,

I loved the reproof and correction that I had when coming to the knowledge of the Truth of God's Word, but only after I realized it was the truth.  But is Ken going to be that guy who doesn't take the reproof and correction that he is getting from here, in which he isn't going to like at first, to come to the knowledge of the Truth of God's Word?  Yes, it is kind of an expression.  And I think we are on the same page but not on the same sentence, nor paragraph.  If I am wrong about what I'm saying I have no doubt the reproof and correction will come from everybody, in which I certainly hope so.  It would make for a good discussion.  And I'm not saying that your reproof and correction isn't part of everybody.

Chris

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 01:03:07 AM »
Caleb,

Let me address this bluntly.  You stated that nobody likes correction.  The bible states that a man that loves knowledge loves reproof.

I have supplied multiple bible verses and you have shared your opinion.  I would appreciate verses that support your position.  I'm beginning to believe that you hate reproof.

If your position is not that every single man hates reproof, I don't understand why or what you are arguing.

creationliberty

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2019, 01:13:01 AM »
Good conversation because, as far as I can tell, you're both correct. Chris, you're not wrong in your statements, and you would normally be correct in your rebuke, but I took what Caleb said as he was talking about "nobody like reproof" in the context of the world, not in the context of the church, which is why he said, "I loved the reproof and correction that I had when coming to the knowledge of the Truth of God's Word, but only after I realized it was the truth," and that those who are not of Christ will not understand the truth, so therefore, they will hate rebuke and correction. I mean, maybe I misunderstood him, and I should be corrected on that, but I took it to mean he was only talking about the world, which is the majority, and so if he had said that "nobody of the world likes reproof," then I don't think there would be any contention on the matter; am I wrong?

And yes, if we did not issue correction sharply on such people as Ken, those types of men would come in here and walk all over us however they please. We welcome opposition here, so long as they behave themselves, but opposition usually misbehaves or leaves. However, I want those men, that is, those churchgoers who claim to be of Christ with their mouths only, to know firmly that we are not of the same yoke, so that way, if they ever do come to the true Lord Jesus Christ of Scripture through repentance and faith, they'll more easily see the line between the true and false church.

By the way, Ken registered on the 25th and made his first post. He did not show up again until two hours ago, and he logged out and said nothing. When folks do that, I've found that it means one of two things: Either he's ramping up for a huge, long-winded post in which he's going to embarrass himself, or he's left for good. Repentance and correction is a reaction we've almost never experienced here from guests. I don't know which one it is, but I'm sure after a couple more weeks of silence, we can assume the latter.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 05:02:05 PM »
When I read Ken testament it seems to be he is looking for work. He also gives the impression that he has pride on being a tax man. I heard more of his "gift" of taxes then jesus himself. And out of all the people on here he will be the first who walk around with a god given gift of taxes.I mean I can see someone walking around saying "hey I can heal the sick" but walking around saying " hey look at me over here. Ya that is right, your looking at a man who was given a gift by god. Taxes"


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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2019, 05:58:20 PM »
That'd be like Matthew starting out his epistle by saying, "Matthew called to be TAXES man."  :D
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2019, 09:35:49 PM »
Thanks Christopher for clearing that up.  I should have tried to put it more simply.  I apologize, Chris, that I didn't explain it the way Christopher did and for the confusion.  One reason why I know my father, my oldest brother, my mother, and my sister are not of Christ is because they don't like the reproof or correction.  Every time I try to discuss anything with them to give them reproof and correction it always turns out to be a yelling match; that doesn't get anybody anywhere.  Even the time I proved to my sister the difference between Easter and Passover, she would not admit that she was wrong nor thanked me for correcting her.  She feels that because she is older she shouldn't get reproof or correction from someone younger, especially her younger brother.  My whole family is the same way except for Curtis, my twin brother, who has come to grief and godly sorrow.  Which is why it was easy for Curtis to love the reproof and correction and not the rest of my family.

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2019, 09:56:58 PM »
Hey Caleb,

I'm sorry for misunderstanding.  Thanks for being patient.
 After you and Chris gave more context, I realized what you were saying and agree.  I hope Ken will address Chris with the same meekness you have shown.

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Re: Introduction : New Member, "Oregontaxman"
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2019, 11:14:01 PM »
No problem Chris, I'm glad we are now on the same page, in the same paragraph, and on the same sentence.