Christians Won't Live With Christ in Heaven?

[creationliberty]

DANA (male) FROM TEXAS:
Terrific answer about the non-existent Septuagint thanks. I was going to look for Sam Gipp's resource but it appears someone needs to pay his domain bill.

Anyway... I'd like to ask you to watch some of the study videos I've done.
I want you to get out your Bible and read these verses for yourself. I'm not giving you my opinion here, I'm giving you God's Word.  I'm going to attempt to explain to you that the Christian, the believer in Jesus Christ, inherits Eternal Life but we never go to the Heaven you think of where God dwells.  Never.
Watch these videos. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbN33dT3zOc  is an overview.

Here's a little more information.  John 3:13 says -
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vlf6xCJjk

Most people immediately refer to 2 Corinthians 5 which they mis-read.  Let me explain it to you here  -   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuDX3Cu2aA
So what happens when you die?  If you're a Christian it's more good news, but it isn't heaven.   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNIXocmyNw4
Terrific answer about the non-existent Septuagint thanks. I was going to look for Sam Gipp's resource but it appears someone needs to pay his domain bill.
Okay, well, I'm glad the Lord Jesus Christ allowed me to be of some assistance to you. I don't support or endorse Sam Gipp any longer because I've heard too many strange doctrines and discovered some serious hypocrisy coming from him, so despite his work on the KJB, I try to avoid him now.

Anyway... I'd like to ask you to watch some of the study videos I've done.
I can already tell you now, I'm probably not going to have the time. I'm working on a new book right now (which I release them for free on the website), I've been answering emails for the past two and half hours now, I've got more open still, I haven't even started on my work for editing, processing, coding, and getting this week's teaching online, and I've got other outside business to take care of on top of that; I highly doubt I will get to any of your teachings.

I want you to get out your Bible and read these verses for yourself. I'm not giving you my opinion here, I'm giving you God's Word.  I'm going to attempt to explain to you that the Christian, the believer in Jesus Christ, inherits Eternal Life but we never go to the Heaven you think of where God dwells. Never.
Okay, I'll be frank: I firmly reject your false doctrine. If you thought you were going to send me Youtube videos and convince me of heresy, you are barking up the wrong tree. I wanted to state that firmly so that way you don't waste your time because I'm sure you also have a lot on your plate in caring for your family.
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
-John 14:1-3
I find it amazing how the Lord Jesus Christ so commonly destroys false doctrines with just a few sentences. You definitely don't understand John 3, and I quickly figured out where your confusion is, but you didn't write me to learn anything, so I won't bother explaining it. (i.e. I only teach those who want to hear.) If you don't believe what Christ taught us, that's your business. I'm not responsible for your personal beliefs, but you will be held accountable for the false doctrines you teach, so keep that in mind. However, what's MUCH more important is this doctrine because if you don't believe this, you'll perish in hell:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
Have a great day, and I pray the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the coming week.
I am a blood bought saved by grace through faith alone believer in Jesus Christ.  So no, I don't need your gospel presentation.
Pay attention Chris... I'm trying to be warm and loving but when you outright reject...  ugh
I clearly show right from scripture the truth.
You fully rejected even looking.
Here I'll explain John 14 to you since you offered it to me
There are 31 verses in John 14
Most Christians know the first six pretty well.. when you start quoting it, they remember and join in.
John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Most people refer to this passage when we're talking about Heaven because they think this describes their eternal reward.
But it doesn't.
This passage has nothing to do with Heaven where God dwells whatsoever.
Please read along and I'll break it down for you verse by verse...
Verse 1 is pretty self-explanatory, Jesus is comforting His disciples and telling them not to worry... but He's also preparing them for His death.
"In my Father's house are many mansions:" isn't describing Heaven where God dwells.
This verse means God has ample room to save the whole world.
This is proven by what comes next - "if it were not so, I would have told you."
Told them what? Jesus is saying that if He could only save some and not all, He would've let them know already.
This also destroys Calvinism, because it once again proves that Jesus came to die for ALL, not just some.
"I go to prepare a place for you."
Most people incorrectly assume that this means a construction project in Heaven.
They imagine Jesus saying "I'm going to go build you a mansion in my Father's house." but that's not what it's saying.
"I go to prepare a place for you." means HE'S GOING TO GO DIE ON THE CROSS FOR YOU.
He's using word-pictures to describe His pending death, burial and resurrection.
"And if I go and prepare a place for you," <---- meaning ----> "And if I go and die for you."
"I will come again, and receive you unto myself;"
No mention of Heaven here.
Jesus is coming.
Coming here.
Receive you unto myself means Jesus is going to gather the elect from around the entire world, as well as the dead in Christ, and then...
"that where I am, there ye may be also."
Where is Jesus going to be?
In Heaven where God dwells?
NO! JESUS WILL BE HERE! THIS IS OUR REWARD! ETERNAL LIFE ON A NEW EARTH WITH A NEW SKY OVERHEAD!!!
Jesus continues in verse 4 - "And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."
Meaning... He's telling them you know what I'm saying and what I have to do.
Otherwise this makes no sense.
The disciples know the route to take to get to God's dwelling place in the 3rd heaven?
I don't think so.
This is a phrase of understanding among close, close friends.
Because right after that, good ol' pragmatic Thomas speaks up; "Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?"
Which means Thomas was thinking in the literal too, not picking up on the message just yet. He's saying exactly what I just said...
How in the world would they know the traveling route to "heaven"?
It's not about that... because his reply from Jesus has nothing to do with giving directions;
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
See? This entire passage isn't about heaven or mansions in glory at all.
It's Jesus stating the gospel clearly for his closest followers and it shows us that even they didn't always fully understand.
The remaining 25 verses are about the spirit of God, not heaven.
So while you think those verses "destroy false doctrine in a few short sentences" I would urge you to rethink. Perhaps a conversation?  I see you disdain the phone for some reason.  Would you like to Skype? I think I have it on my phone... never used.
I DID NOT RESPOND -- HE SENT ANOTHER LETTER
Why would God make a new incorruptible body for you, and a whole new heaven (sky) and Earth, and bring down this immense city of God, a new Jerusalem, if we're going to float around in His celestial dwelling place?
Do you reject God's Word?
John 3:13 says - "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
NO. MAN. HATH. ASCENDED. UP. TO. HEAVEN.
HE IS SENDING THESE LETTERS MINUTES APART FROM EACH OTHER
And Chris... I didn't write you to learn from you. I wrote to you to teach you.
I can see YOU teach a false doctrine of repentance. 
Repentance means a change of mind. You erroneously cite the Genesis 6 word for repent, which in the Hebrew (consulting Strong's concordance of the KJB, not Webster's dictionary lol) is NAW-KAM and it means the "I'm sorry" type of repentance.
But the repentance used in relation to SALVATION in the New Testament is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS the Greek word "Metanoia" meaning simply a change of mind.  It requires NO ACTION on the part of the believer other than to go from not believing the gospel to believing it.   That is salvation.  That's the GOOD NEWS. 
You are teaching works salvation.
Repent of that.
At this point, he proceeds to start filling my inbox with spam mail. After a couple more spam letters, some of them VERY long, I informed him that I blocked his account. I haven't even read any of his response emails; I just copy/pasted what I had on here for you guys to see. (He'll probably make an "exposed" video out of me too.)

His confusion with John 3, which I would not explain to him personally because, as you can see, he would not hear me even if I tried to explain it to him, is that Jesus went to paradise and then brought all the saints/elect to heaven. I don't fully understand it because I'm just a man, but Jesus described a chasm between Lazarus and Abraham, and the rich man in hell, and Abraham and Lazarus were in paradise. (Luke 16:19-31) This is why Jesus told the criminal crucified with him that he would be with him in "paradise," not in heaven, because Jesus had not yet taken the saved souls to heaven; that was to be done after his death. (Luke 23:43) Jesus brought them to the kingdom of heaven, which is where Paul said he was caught up to when he was stoned to death at one point, but then was resurrected by God to continue his work. (2Co 12:2) By the way, in order for Dana to believe his own doctrine, he has to believe Paul was a liar. So Dana's confusion on John 3:13 is that no man had ascended into heaven... YET... but all that was about to change as the fulfillment of the Messiah unfolded.

Though I haven't read his subsequent emails I listed out here, I'm sure they're filled with many other heresies; not because he doesn't understand John 3, but rather, it's because of his prideful attitude, which I saw in his first letter. I knew it wasn't going to end well because of what the Bible tells me.
"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."
-James 1:8

[Zoologistkid]

Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way and he that hateth reproof shall die. Proverbs 15: 10

He's really got that "gotcha" attitude and then he says the most hypocritical thing: Repent of that. He's got the same attitude like when people say "So put that in your pipe and smoke it!"

[strangersmind]

Well I think this person needs to read the hole bible starting with genius. Where did Enoch go when God took him? If I remember right wasn't there a few others that went to heaven? Elijah was also taken in 2 kings 2 verse 11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Dana said no man has ascended into heaven but the bible say otherwise.
I don't think he would of heard any word you would of spoken of to him.

[creationliberty]

I don't think he would of heard any word you would of spoken of to him.

Exactly. You can tell who doesn't want to listen from the first one or two sentences, but they all sit back and think they're so sly that we can't discern them.

[Jeanne]

He's apparently not familiar with Revelation, either.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 4 and 5 already confirm that this vision is taking place in heaven.

[strangersmind]

I once believe the same thing as this person, but the more I studied the more I seen it was an error. The bible do say the heaven and earth will pass a way with a great noise and god will make a new heaven and a new earth. What I think God is telling us is once all has been juge we who are in heaven will get to see God create his creation first hand, but we can't really understand heavenly things like jesus said.
I was wanting to post on the church only post of something someone came up with long ago in a bible study I once had. He came up with or found I don't remember but he say all the visions found in the bible are true and we can see them today. When I saw what he saw I froze in, well don't know how to explain but it was first time I felt so small. Now I do not know what to believe about it even today. After he shares what he thinks are the visions, no one ever return to the bible study.
here is his clame, all visions in bible are real and can be seen in the nebulas of are vast space. From a bear with 3 ribs in its mouth to a dragon with 3 frogs leap out of there mouth.

I to this day do not know what to make of it but my point is man has been taken into heaven. The nebulas is for a different discussion

[Jeanne]

I think this guy is confused by the fact that yes, we do go to heaven when we die, but the heaven that now is will not be our PERMANENT home. Once God remakes the entire universe, the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven to the earth. (Revelation 21)

[Timothy]

"In my Father's house are many mansions:" isn't describing Heaven where God dwells.
This verse means God has ample room to save the whole world.
This is proven by what comes next - "if it were not so, I would have told you."   <--
Told them what? Jesus is saying that if He could only save some and not all, He would've let them know already.

I was curious what his reasoning was for his doctrine. It turns out, there is no reasoning here at all. He is just telling you what he personally wants to 'think' Jesus meant here and I think it's a good example of someone 'wresting' scripture.

2 Peter 3:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

To wrest something means to violently twist or to distort. So what this guy just did was twist scripture out of context, and I would say violently given how absurd his argument is, and apply his own understanding. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/wrest

I don't think I would have replied to him either. That is a blindness over his eyes that only God could remove.

I can see YOU teach a false doctrine of repentance. 
Repentance means a change of mind.

And there's the problem. His faith is in his head only and not in his heart.

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

That's the major problem with people who teach repentance is a change of mind. Everything to them when it comes to salvation is an issue with the head and not the heart.

[creationliberty]

I had not considered that part about wresting the Scripture, and I'm going to try and commit that to memory.

I don't think I would have replied to him either. That is a blindness over his eyes that only God could remove.

To update, he's not only tried spamming me with one email address, but he's switched email addresses and I've had to block him not only multiple times on email, but on facebook too, as he keeps trying to spam me there as well. He has a heart of strife, not of repentance, and the Bible says he loves transgression.
He loveth transgression that loveth strife: and he that exalteth his gate seeketh destruction.
-Pro 17:19

[strangersmind]

Is spamming the same as when spam advertising went to all emails over and over witch is where we get the name spam or has it changed?

[creationliberty]

spam: disruptive online messages, especially commercial messages posted on a computer network or sent as email

[strangersmind]

Ok thank you

[creationliberty]

It was funny; I checked my spam box this morning (which I do sometimes in case something goes in there that shouldn't), and there was spam mail in there from this guy saying, "You don't even know what spam is." I couldn't help but laugh.

[strangersmind]

Maybe you should send him the definition of spam as well

[anvilhauler]

He has totally missed the concept that all of the Biblical doctrines match in with eachother like the pieces in a jigsaw puzzle i.e. precepts.  He is like all of the people in the "churches" here, they leave the pieces out that they don't know where they fit and they just ignore them and then they do the equivalent of using a hammer to fit other pieces in where they think they should go.  Not fun people to be around.

Isaiah 28:10 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:

[anvilhauler]

Well I think this person needs to read the hole bible starting with genius.

Hi Billy

I hope you don't mind but I did have to have a bit of a chuckle reading your posting because it is twice you have written it now.  I'm not picking or anything   .....  but the first book of the Bible is called Genesis.  I'm just writing to correct you because we are all friends here and it may save you a whole lot of bothers when communicating with others who are not a part of the forum 

[creationliberty]

I didn't know if anyone else noticed that. I didn't correct it because it was likely the best sentence that's ever been written on this forum, and it made me laugh.

[strangersmind]

Thanks Kevin, that was just a type o. My tablet auto correct on its own so I did met to say genesis