What's the difference between a pastor and a prophet?

[Chris_Thacker]

What's the difference between a pastor and a prophet?

This comes about as I am dealing with debating others who say that woman can teach/preach in church.

Because of the acts 21:9 "He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied"

I am living in Thailand where the terms 'to teach (สอน)' and "to prophesy(เผยพระวจนะ)' are often used interchangeably,
which in turn has created a problematic situation when I claim scriptures that say women have no teaching role in the church to other christians
e.g 1 Tim 2:11-12  A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet'

They then would say argue back that women can prophesy, which I agree on, because scripture teaches and proves that to be true.
So now, the dilemma is defining what prophesying is according to the bible, and it's place and functionality in the church as a whole and as a church congregation meeting.     

I would really appreciate any expounding on this issue for me.
Thank you for your time.

Chris Thacker.

[creationliberty]

Did you read what I just released on Friday?
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=560.0

[Chris_Thacker]

Hi Chris, so i just went and found this on that article.

Pastor: This role is taken after its name, meaning a shepherd, one that cares for and watches over the flock, visiting them and helping them for their good health and prosperity, while feeding them, which is meant in the spiritual sense, that they would be fed the Word of God. Ultimately, the pastor is there for the growth of the church within.

Prophet: This role focuses on delivering the Word of God to the people, which is the general definition of the word 'prophesy', whether they are believers, unbelievers, or false converts; rebuke, reproof, and instruction in righteousness is the main goal, to keep people on the path of righteousness in Christ. Prophets can also foretell future events, but that was before the entire Word of God had been completed, in which God would give His Word to specific individuals to deliver to the people. Although I believe the foretelling of future events is much less common today (if at all) since we have the book of Revelation to show us what will happen to the end of the world; prophets today are mostly those who take the Word of God as it is written, rebuking sin, and warn the people of coming judgment.

So when a 'pastor "feeds the Word of God", I take that as to mean, he teaches them biblical doctrine, right?
How is that different from a prophet's "instruction" and 'delivering the Word of God to the people'?

I'm a little confused, because when the new testament mentions women prophets, like the 4 daughter's in acts 21:9,
they gave a prophecy of a future event '11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

It's a difficult situation that I need clear definitions for,  because in Thai the word for prophet literally is "a person (who) reveals the word of God"
so they have no problem with the idea of a women 'revealing' the word of God for an hour to everyone, which for me is basically them tying to teach doctrine.

[creationliberty]

I didn't say it was different. Did you keep reading? Are you just picking parts out, or did you look at the whole thing?

"The reason I did not mention teachers is because, essentially, all the roles are responsible to teach, and though I am called by Christ to teach, everyone in the church was given the great commission by Christ:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
-Matthew 28:18-20"

The problem is that you're still in the mindset the world has given you, that pastors are the only teachers there are. Peter was an apostle, and Jesus told him to "feed my sheep." We all have responsibility to teach. I'm not sure why you're hung up on this; I can't figure it out yet.

[Chris_Thacker]

I didn't say it was different. Did you keep reading? Are you just picking parts out, or did you look at the whole thing?

"The reason I did not mention teachers is because, essentially, all the roles are responsible to teach, and though I am called by Christ to teach, everyone in the church was given the great commission by Christ:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
-Matthew 28:18-20"

The problem is that you're still in the mindset the world has given you, that pastors are the only teachers there are. Peter was an apostle, and Jesus told him to "feed my sheep." We all have responsibility to teach. I'm not sure why you're hung up on this; I can't figure it out yet.

"We all have responsibility to teach"
'Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you'

So, how does that apply to women who wish to teach? How does that apply to a church setting?
Regardless of their stance on being a pastor or prophet.
And when taking this verse into account.
1 Tim 2:11-12  A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet'

So, this means only women can teach women,
Titus 2:3-5
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

I'm just not sure how to deal with women who get up to 'speak', of which most cases in a church are that of teaching doctrine.

My fiancee is asking me, 'so then what can women do?"
when she asks that, she basically is asking, what can women do when gathered for 'church' , like at a church building.

For me, i think the answer is well, everything but teaching, am i along some right lines here Chris?

Sorry if I cause you any confusion, to be honest, I am somewhat puzzled on coming to some solid conclusions about all of this,
Thank God for this forum at least! haha

[creationliberty]

Have you read this?
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/womenteach.php

[Jeanne]

So, how does that apply to women who wish to teach? How does that apply to a church setting?
Regardless of their stance on being a pastor or prophet.
And when taking this verse into account.
1 Tim 2:11-12  A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet'

What Bible version are you using here? This is not KJV...

[ThomasHGW]

I was just about to ask that Jeanne, Chris T, I have found that when you read the KJB, you gain understanding much more quickly and on a deeper level. If the Lord is willing to give it to you. We have discussed the bible versions as a church and believe that it is the preserved, perfect word of God.
The other versions are corrupted and change words to mean something different, and it is much harder to gain understanding of scripture. There are a number of verses taken out too.

[creationliberty]

To understand more on that, this would be what you want to look at:
Why I Use the King James Bible

[Chris_Thacker]

Have you read this?
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/womenteach.php

Yes, and also listened to the youtube mp3.

I will check out the king james bible article too.

[creationliberty]

Have you read this?
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/womenteach.php

Yes, and also listened to the youtube mp3.

I will check out the king james bible article too.

Alright, so going back to your question:

So, how does that apply to women who wish to teach?

I don't know that I can answer your question if you read over that teaching because I'm not sure what about it you didn't understand. It's like... right now I'm sitting here trying to think of what to type, and I don't know that I can come up with anything other to than to copy and paste what was said in the article because, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure I answered that. Maybe you could give me more details, and then I can come up with something.

[Chris_Thacker]

Here's where i am a little confused
We agree that women can't be pastors or elders.
But they can be evangelists and prophets.
What are some biblical definitions of a prophet?

And by your article, you say

"general definition of the word 'prophesy', whether they are believers, unbelievers, or false converts; rebuke, reproof, and instruction"

Can you define 'instruction', rebuke, reproof,
To me, that's like a kind of teaching.
If so, what does, for example, 'instruction' function like in a church setting?

Thanks

[creationliberty]

Maybe I need to rewrite that article because I had thought I had explained the matter and perhaps I didn't do a good enough job. Women do not have teaching authority over the church, but I don't recall ever saying that women cannot teach.

You cherry picked out of this definition, and I'll underline the key part:
"This role focuses on delivering the Word of God to the people, which is the general definition of the word 'prophesy', whether they are believers, unbelievers, or false converts; rebuke, reproof, and instruction in righteousness is the main goal, to keep people on the path of righteousness in Christ."
A prophet has to get the Word of God from somewhere, so it either comes from the written Word, or it comes from the spoken Word, where God speaks to him/her directly. Once they have that instruction, that is given to "believers, unbelievers, or false converts," depending on the situation, and so for a woman to be a set into a position as an instructor over the church is unbiblical, but for a woman to teach others the Word of God is just part of everyone's duty to Christ.

The question at the end doesn't make sense to me either, simply because asking what 'instruction' functions like in a church setting is something I do every week on a recording, which you've already heard. I think I'm just confused as to how you're confused when you've heard me doing teaching.

I guess I'm just not getting why this is so complicated. If a woman comes into the church and proclaims that God gave her to be in any leadership position over the church, or an instructor over the church, then she's a liar. Outside of that, I don't understand what the complication is about; perhaps if you provide a real-world example, we can discuss where the problem is.

[Chris_Thacker]

I think after re-reading the article again, I now see clearly your point, that is

Both men and women are called to obey the great commission given to us by Christ,
nevertheless, when gathered together as a church family, it is just the men who take on leadership and teaching roles,
but outside of a church gathering time, both men and women would then continue according to
teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you;


Would this summary be correct according to the article?


Thanks

Chris

[creationliberty]

Yeah, pretty much. You got it.