Rebuking a street preacher

[Benjamin]

This guy is full of false doctrine and has even went on to call me a devil and a demon in my first comment to him. I figured I would try one more time to reach him after I talked to Christopher because Christopher made mention about his belief on repentance is probably skewed, and it is. So below is the second conversation. I was will to even talk over the phone but I think I';m going to leave this one alone because his mind appears made up and he is coming off as very posh.

Benjamin Drew
13 hours ago
Okay, we got off on the wrong foot, now I know the core of your doctrine why you believe one can lose their salvation. Repentance, in the Bible is having grief and Godly sorrow towards God for sinning against Him and breaking is Laws.


Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort,
-2 Corinthians 7:9-11


No, we are not supposed to live in sin, like many do and use the "Once saved always saved" card to justify their sins. I wasn't attempting in anyway to justify sin in my last comment.


What I mean is, good fruit can not come from an evil tree and likewise bad fruit can not come from a good tree. Meaning, Many claim with their lips to be saved, but they never came to grief and Godly sorrow in repentance to be saved in the first place, Hence, they were never saved.


When one is born again, they will naturally forsake sin overtime as they grow in their walk and learn proper doctrine. That's why the Bible said to bring forth works meet for repentance. If theirs no real conversion or repentance,, again, they were never saved. Works are supposed be a result of repentance and salvation, because like you said, we can not pay the penalty ourselves, meaning our works can not save us.


Think of the parable of the sower and the seed that fell on good ground, that seed is not going to uproot itself and move to bad ground then uproot itself again and go to good ground. The parable of the sower is about false converts.


Remember what I said about sometimes people fail and slide back? Those who are truly born again Christ will go out and bring them back to repentance.  There's scripture to back this up is all I am trying to reasonably explain.  But most who slide back were never saved to begin with because, they never came to grief and Godlty sorrow of their wrong doing and never truly repented.


Repent means to be in grief and Godly sorrow, not to turn (In the context of the Bible). The turning will come naturally and one will not identify with their sin but rather do the works meet for repentance naturally. Repent has more than one meaning, but in the Bible, it's grief and Godly sorrow.


(Webster 1828 Dictionary) REPENT', verb intransitive [Latin re and paeniteo, from paena, pain. Gr. See Pain.]

1. To feel pain, sorrow or regret for something done or spoken; as, to repent that we have lost much time in idleness or sensual pleasure; to repent that we have injured or wounded the feelings of a friend. A person repents only of what he himself has done or said.


Luke 15:3-7 King James Version (KJV)
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


I'm willing to talk on the phone, or skype so we can go over this.

His reply:

Raf Proclaims John1248
13 hours ago (edited)
Benjamin, i dont mind talking to you, but you have a heretic mentality, you read into vereses your doctrine

For example, you say the sower parable is about false converts, that is so far from true. The 2nd soil had growth, believed, and recievd the word with joy. Their issue arouse later, and it was their own fault it happened, they fell and were offended after being saved

God does not force backsliders to come back, that is a Calvinist heresy,  there are proven cases in scripture where backsliders didnt come back, and examples of backsliders that were commanded to repent, they were saved prior

Repent means stop sinning,  its the truth, i explained it in the audio, any other doctrine is heresy on this topic

I think you are a devil, yes, but i also love my neighbor while being honest, if you want some compassion, email me your number i will try to help you

And a link to his video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKLJidI7dO0&t=1s

I don't know what is is with so called CXhristians answering a matter before hearing it and being afraid to challenge their own belief system.

[creationliberty]

So I guess my analysis was correct; I was guessing last night just based on the way the man was talking, but I see now that it was true. That's why he teaches that you can lose salvation in Christ. He doesn't understand the foundation of salvation, and that's likely because he has never come to repentance, meaning that he's never been broken-hearted and grieved over his sin. That's sad, but again, it is a gift from God, which is why men cannot squeeze tears out of a heart of stone.
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
-2Ti 2:25

[creationliberty]

For example, you say the sower parable is about false converts, that is so far from true. The 2nd soil had growth, believed, and recievd the word with joy. Their issue arouse later, and it was their own fault it happened, they fell and were offended after being saved

I'm sorry to post again, but this came up in my mind again. He has no idea what he's talking about, and he does not listen to the Lord Jesus Christ:
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
-Mark 4:16-17
There is no root in them; that's the point. The core foundation that would be required for the good seed in good ground is not there. Thus, he is hypocritically accusing others of heresy.

[Benjamin]

He just left another comment minutes ago. Would anyone mind if I post a link to this forum discussion on his youtube video below his last comments? Or would that be too over the top?



Raf Proclaims John1248
19 minutes ago
you also mention forsaking sin overtime when someone is born again, this is backward and devilish

the audio supplies the scriptures that repentance means to forsake sin, therefore, how could someone have repented to be born again if they have yet  forsaken their sin in the first place?

you are teaching another heresy of salvation in sin, which is not what the bible teaches, the bible teaches salvation from sin (Mat 1:21)

you arent free, if you are still sinning (Jn -8)

so a good tree only produces good fruit, and the verse actually means what it says, the verse does not suggest a good tree has pieces of bad fruit at times, while remaining good. No, if you want to go back to sin, you are immediately then a bad tree, like David, Peter, galatians, 5of the 7 churches, the servants in the parables. Jesus clearly taught one can be in Him bearing fruit (good tree), then sin, not abide (1Jn 3:6)(bad tree now), be cut off (no life outside of Him, no saved in sin, no remaining saved in sin), then burned in fire. you cant be a good backsliders, and you cant suggest sinning appears on a good tree. You also cant suggest in the bible that righteous men never sinned afterward, so the only balance is that if a  righteous man falls into sin, they must come back, they dont stay good(saved) determinedly

1john 3:6 does not teach never having  known Him, rather, it teaches does not perfectly know Him ( has not seen Him, neither known Him appear in the perfect tense in that verse, which denotes a past action with a present result). this is important based on just common context of John's writings, as it is sin that will cause you to be cut off. So in the past you may of been of Him(saved), then now today in the present you are in sin (cut off). Again, Jesus said you must continue, and its not continue in head knowledge, but moral perfection (not sinning (Jn 8:31-38, Ps 101:6-8))

now, while one is cut off (without salvation after previously having it), you can be grafted back in (Christ formed in you again (Gal 4:19)), but you of course must forsake the sin and have faith to be cleansed of it (romans 11:19-24)

the osas devils suggest they are humble, but we see, they are the proud ones, as it is a proud person that does not heed the warnings, or common sense (Ps 119:21, James 4:4-10)

Lk 15:7-10 certainly does not teach a lost piece of silver is still found while lost, no, they are actually lost. it just so happens the lost piece repented and got found again

other times, they didnt come and get gathered (Mat 23:37-39)

Judas didnt come back like peter did

judas was saved, there are many ways to show this, but just one common sense idea is this, why would Jesus name a false apostle? He wouldnt, He named saints, Judas by transgression fell (Acts 1, ps 69), not because he forgot head knowledge, he knew who Jesus was, Judas knew he betrayed the innocent blood, but he didnt repent in a godly sorrow, but sorrow of the world. i have seen it in ministry, people refuse to repent, not the deceived either in cults or bad doctrine, but know to repent and dont . Judas was blotted out, you have to written to be blotted out

self deceived proud liars hold to osas, there is no other way to explain how proud someone must be to think you cant ever end up in hell after being saved initially.

[Zoologistkid]

Um...where in scripture does it say that Judas was saved? In fact, as Chris pointed out, Judas died and went to hell. So where in the world is he getting his information from?

[strangersmind]

There is a few churches that teach judas died and went to heaven. Like they say the husband and wife that sold their land in book of acts they too went to heaven. I still today remember that sermon when I was kid.

[Jeanne]

First, he needs to read the article or listen to the audio teaching on repentance; THEN you can steer him to the article on False Converts vs Eternal Security. This poor man has no idea what he's talking about, but since he's a 'pastor' he's very unlikely to ever admit he is wrong.

[Kenneth Winslow]

In my experience, it is rare in the street preaching community to find someone who properly understands the doctrine of eternal security.  Most believe that salvation can be lost by sinning.

[creationliberty]

In my experience, it is rare in the street preaching community to find someone who properly understands the doctrine of eternal security.  Most believe that salvation can be lost by sinning.

Yeah, I've seen similar things. It all comes down to the belief in the false doctrine that "repent" means "to turn." If they understood grief and sorrow of sin, they would understand the Gospel clearly.