Please allow me first of all to apologize to all the readers that have read through this far and have witnessed the display of drama. This was never my intention for this to develop. Please understand that my argument for the permanence of marriage has nothing to do with me or the representatives of this website, but lies solely with the truth.I will not respond directly to Fred, as he will not hear me, but I will speak to everyone else reading; though some of you have already given good answers, and I may repeat something that one of you have already said, I want to help any on-looking Christians be able to exercise and grow their discernment against false converts like Fred. His latest response now confirmed for me that he is not of Christ, and will refuse to hear anyone who would try to tell him of the truth of Christ, because it is not the Christian God of the Bible that Fred wishes to follow, rather, he desires only the false ecumenical (i.e. one-world religious) "jesus."
If Fred was speaking the truth, it would not matter how much "drama" has sprung up. For that matter, I don't know what drama he is talking about. I've done nothing but tell him the truth, protecting the church from his false doctrines, and so, if there has been any drama, it has been solely from him. I don't see any drama; rather, I see a prideful goat coming in among the sheep to disrupt their understanding. Fred has refused sound doctrine, and insists on calling his fallacious opinions "truth," which is why the man is dangerous; believing he is a teacher in Christ, when he is, in fact, a false convert.
(See "False Converts vs Eternal Security" here at creationliberty.com for more details.)He believes it is impossible for us to discern that information by only the few posts he has made, but that is because he does not understand the truth of God's Word and that's because he does not have the Spirit of God. He thinks such doctrine, like that of false converts is foolishness, and could never apply to him, but he does not judge himself.
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
-1Co 11:31
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14If the administrator has discerned that I am an unrepentant sinner due to the lack of evidence of repentance given in my introductory statements, then so be it. Can I also discern that there is very little love shown on this website? And I won't back this up with scriptural verses as these are well known. I also have a Muslim friend that I have asked to read my post and she is astonished by the meanness in these dialogues - yes it is obvious to non-believers.Perhaps Fred is unaware, but the phrase "so be it," would be him consenting to the truth of the statement. Is he then confessing that he is not of Christ? I doubt it. That means he's just lying, or simply saying "whatever," taking the matter lackadaisically, rather than seriously, as he ought. He goes back to the quick-defense one-liner that nearly all new-age churchgoers go to: "
You guys aren't very loving."
Although I don't believe Fred has been loving to us in the least, I have not yet accused him of not being loving towards us. Why? Because if a man comes to tell me the truth, or that he believes he is telling me the truth, I know that love is a selfless sacrifice, and so if a man comes to someone else to warn him of the truth, and the danger of sin, that is love. Fred also believes that, otherwise he would not have come to here to tell us his doctrine (even though it is false), and yet, in total repulsive hypocrisy, he turns around and tells us that our efforts to tell him the truth is not loving. This is hypocrisy at its most perfect example, and when Fred ought to be ashamed of himself, he instead glories (boasts of his own supposed love) in his shame.
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.
-Phil 3:19However, now that Fred has shown his true colors (namely, that he has tried to disguise himself even more than he did when he first joined, showing a lot more deception in his heart), I will most certainly accuse him of not knowing the first thing about love, and hating his friends. The fact that he has a "Muslim friend" shows that he does not love or care about her in the least because, if he cared about that woman, he would have warned her of the coming wrath of God onto those who follow after false gods. Hell and the lake of fire is coming for all those who follow Islam, and not only does Fred not care one ounce for her soul, he doesn't care at all about the Lord Jesus Christ, more willing to yoke together and fellowship with the world and those who hate the Christian God of the Bible, further demonstrating how far his heart is from Christ.
(See "Islam: A Religion of Terror" here at creationliberty.com for more details.)This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
-Mat 15:8Fred refuses to acknowledge his own status as an adulterer in this manner:
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
-James 4:4
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
-Eph 5:11
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
-2Co 6:14-18He won't back up his statements with Scripture, not because they are "well known;" after all, if we are not abiding by them, then it should be assumed that we don't understand them. No, that is not the reason; he does not back them up out of fear because he knows that people here do know the Scripture and understand them, and he is afraid of being exposed in his hypocrisy.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
-John 13:19Now if I may proceed forward and address a few items raised in the responses: First off, I know that many couples are hurting. Every husband and wife is dealing with very serious hurts and many are wondering which way to go; should they continue to work through the difficulties and possibly suffer for an additional extended period or should they finally call it quits for the sake of peace of mind and sanity. I see that the administrator is arguing for divorce under various circumstances which is in line with 99% of the Christian and non-Christian world, but I know without a doubt that this belief is incorrect and wicked. I'm sure I don't have to inform everyone that I do have a name, and it is not "administrator;" Fred seems not be able to understand that concept. I answered his points, demonstrating his error both reasonably and Scripturally, and you can see how he responded; with a vague opinion based on his feelings. This is why I generally stop wasting my time with men like this, because they won't hear, but for the benefit of the church, I am responding to you all.
It should also be noted that "
99% of the Christian and non-Christian world" is a nonsensical statement. It's just the world. There is the world, and the church. I would say the mass majority believe you can get divorced for
ANY reason, and that is not something I am in agreement with, but Fred can't know that because he won't read what I've written, and refuses to gain any understanding on the matter. How is it possible to help a man who covers his ears?
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
-Mat 13:14-15Please hear it again; a covenant marriage is not dissoluble. Upon entering the marriage covenant nothing can dissolve the marriage except death and only death. Absolutely nothing can invalidate a marriage and nothing can validate divorce and remarriage. It does not matter if the husband's abuse has hospitalized the wife; it does not matter if the wife has had 10 affairs; it does not matter if the husband divorced his wife and remarried multiple times; the original marriage covenant is still intact. The exception clause given in Matthew refers only to pre-marital sex between unmarried persons - hence the word fornication. As well, there is no such thing as an innocent spouse, for even the so-called innocent spouse commits adultery upon remarriage.Fred pleads with you to hear the matter again, even though we already heard it the first time, and he didn't present sound doctrine. Saying it really loud and passionately won't change the error.
Now let me show you all the error of relying on lexicons and concordances, which Fred has been taught to do by the leavened church buildings he clings to:
fornication (n): the incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman(See 'fornication', American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828, retrieved Jan 31, 2019, [webstersdictionary1828.com])Fornication involves anything that is sexual misconduct outside of marriage. That could be an unmarried man with an unmarried woman, a married man with an unmarried woman, or an unmarried man with a married woman. Even Noah Webster also points out that fornication can mean adultery, because it is sexual misconduct outside the bounds of marriage, and even references to Mat 5:32 in his dictionary, so he's in agreement with me.
Now, of course, many of you may remember that Fred argued that the marriage covenant is an analogy to the covenant between Christ and the church, which, if he had been willing to act like an adult in his understanding (
1Co 14:20) and read the teaching I did on the matter, Fred would have learned that I teach the same thing. The problem is that Jesus, when speaking to the angel over the church in Thyatira, says that the church committed "fornication," which is adultery:
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
-Rev 2:21And furthermore, He goes on to point out that it is adultery, using the terms fornication and adultery interchangeably.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
-Rev 2:22The adultery of the church (wife) against Christ (husband) is called both fornication and adultery, because, though the two terms have exclusivity, they also contain the same meaning. However, Fred denies this, and clings to his worldly sources (i.e. lexicons and concordances) so he can cling to his false doctrine.
(See "The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances" here at creationliberty.com for more details.)And yes a widow or widower may remarry as the preceding marriage covenant terminates upon death.I warned Fred to be careful about making statements on this, and in the pride of his heart, he did not heed my warning. Now he's stepped into snare of God's Word, and there is no escape.
Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
-Mat 22:24-30This means that Fred believes that a husband and wife is freed from the bondage of the law of marriage at that point. Fred also states that he believes no one is eligible for divorce under ANY circumstance. Now let's look at another Scripture:
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
-1Co 7:10-15Again, that can be found in the book I wrote on the matter. In such a case, the man or woman who is of Christ, and their spouse departed from them, they are free to marry again under that circumstance because they are no longer under bondage. They are freed from the bondage of the law in the same way as being freed in a death, and Fred demonstrates that he does not understand the Word of God, but in arrogance, believes he is in a position to teach others.
And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself?
-Rom 2:19-21
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
-Heb 5:12-14Allow me to say again that the greatest blight upon Christianity and the earth at large has been the allowance of divorce and remarriage by the modern church. As astonishing and horrible as this has become, the churches have in fact been at the forefront of the divorce and remarriage movement. God states that he hates divorce (which means it is never to be contemplated in the strongest terms), yet so-called Christians make provision for it. In contrast, Satan loves divorce and hates marriage. To whom do Christians make their allegiance? I suspect that God purposely added the exception clause as a strong delusion to Christians that would rather follow their passions than obey Him and that through the misunderstanding of the exception clause would believe a lie and condone sin.What Fred calls "Christianity" is likely not the same as what we call Christianity. Since he befriends Muslims, that provides evidence that he's part of the ecumenical movement, therefore, he has no idea what the church really is. That being said, for someone to say that divorce is the "greatest blight" upon Christianity would be contradicted by his fellow churchgoers who say that abortion is the greatest blight, or others who would say sodomy is the greatest blight, but none of them go the Scripture on the matter; they're only judging by their own personal feelings.
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
-John 7:24These are the things that God hates with the utmost hatred, as He has stated:
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
-Proverbs 6:16-19God mentions lies twice. Lying would be the biggest problem, right next to pride because a prideful heart that lies against the truth is what keeps people like Fred from coming to repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of his sin).
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
-2Co 7:10
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
-Luke 13:3Furthermore, Christians that later become convicted by the Holy Spirit of their adulterous remarriages need to exit the non-covenantal marriages and remain single or work towards reconciliation with their covenant spouses. Even if a husband has divorced and remarried 3 times and the wife has divorced and remarried 5 times, the only legitimate and lawful marriage in God's eyes is the original covenant marriage; all the rest are illegitimate and will not receive God's blessing.So he lied to all of you. I'll quote Fred, so we're all on the same page:
Contrary to popular Christian opinion and based on what God clearly states in his Word, God NEVER allows for divorceYet, he is telling those others who remarried that they should divorce, which would be a cause for divorce, or in other words, Fred believes remarriage is a cause for divorce. He's clearly contradicted himself.
Allow me to address Matthew 19:7-8 since I have been asked to do so.
Matthew 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
This provision was given to unbelieving Israelite men, those with hard hearts. So as Christians are we permitted to follow a practice given to unbelievers?That's the ridiculous part of Fred's argument is because he's accusing you all of practicing divorce and remarriage. What's interesting is that, among our church, we have only one person who has divorced and remarried, and that was before she was saved. Everyone else is either married to their first spouse, or if divorced, they are divorced because they became believers on Christ, and their spouse is an unbeliever who departed. (i.e. So far, they've remained single.) More absurd is that Fred has agreed to "so be it" with the analysis that he is not of Christ, and yet, he is saying "we" as if all of us are yoked together with Fred, when we are not, because he is not of Christ. I don't know how else to get across to Fred that he will not find like-mindedness and fellowship here because until he comes to repentance to acknowledge the truth, we do not take part with him.
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
-Rom 16:17For God allowed unbelievers to divorce so that they wouldn't kill each other; peace is preferable to constant war.I guess he's once again not giving us Scripture on that because he assumes we're all familiar with it. (i.e. He came here to supposedly "teach" us the truth, but assumes we know the Scripture; that's nonsensical.) I am unfamiliar with that passage, so I'd like to hear what Scripture he got that from; although this is likely the last I'll waste my time responding to his foolishness and false doctrines, so I guess it doesn't matter whether I inquiry about it or not (especially when I confident it doesn't exist). Just to be clear, I could care less about Fred's opinions; I only care about what God has to say.
But even so, these unbelievers will still be committing adultery if remarriage occurs since the covenant marriages are still intact despite the civil divorces.And that shows once again he didn't read my book on the matter because he doesn't understand the truth behind marriage licenses and what they are. (i.e.
I covered that in Chapter 3.)
The unbelieving secular world takes part in every sin that God hates but because they do does not give Christians allowance to follow suit. Simply put, since God hates divorce, then for Christians this is forbidden. For can you imagine two self-centred narcissistic Hollywood actors being forced to stay married? It is for couples such as these that divorce is permitted, but even so, they commit adultery upon remarriage.Fred is arguing that, for those who do not have the laws on divorce (i.e. God's written laws), they are permitted to divorce, but those who have the laws on divorce, they are not permitted. In simple terms, those who have permission in writing can't do it, and those who don't have permission in writing can do it. That is so nonsensical and absurd, I don't even know where to begin; in short, Fred's conjecture in this paragraph eliminates the need for God to write it down at all.
Lastly I am surprised that more readers have not commented to the original post, unless the administrator of this website has made it so obviously clear in his very critical response that any support for my understanding would be in clear violation to his opposition. I am not opposed to criticism but I do not like to see an atmosphere of fear where others do not feel that they are at liberty to respond, good or bad.To be clear, Fred is accusing you all of being afraid of me because he thinks you guys follow me like a cult leader instead of following Christ. That's real firm slap in the face to you all, and I'm surprised more Christians here didn't take offense to that.
So welcome readers, please give me your thoughts good or bad. Let's all keep learning together.Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men. They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
-Psalm 12:1-2I am not yoked together with Fred, but rather, he's trying to drag us into his camp, being part of the new-age ecumenical (i.e. one-world) movement that follows their version of a false christ. I suppose I should speak one thing directly to Fred:
WE ARE NOT BRETHREN. You are a false convert that follows a different "jesus." If you want to learn about the real Jesus, we can show you him, but you have already demonstrated that you are unwilling to hear the matter.God bless the administrator of this site and God bless all the readers that have come for a greater understanding of the marriage subject and let me apologize again for the drama that has ensued. God bless you all.It does no good to Fred's soul to hide behind "God bless you." The Catholic Pope says the same thing, but I cringe and feel nauseous when he says it because I know he is not of God; he profanes the Christian God of the Bible in his doctrine and his actions. So too am I repulsed when false converts hide behind words they do not understand, like "love," seeking a false peace instead of sanctifying themselves because they have no repentance in their hearts. Fred friends and yokes himself together with people who belief in doctrine that Jesus is not the Christ (i.e. Islam), furthermore seeking comfort and wisdom from those who profane the name of Christ, believing that He is not God in the flesh, and on that matter, we have more specific instructions:
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
-2Jo 1:9-11
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
-Luke 12:51(See "The Biblical Understanding of Sanctification" here at creationliberty.com for more details.)Again, Fred did not come here for fellowship (he stated that himself in his introduction), nor would he find it if he did because he is not brethren in Christ. This response he gave further confirms my suspicions that he said some repeat-after-me sinner's prayer a few decades ago and thought he was saved, but he was never taught the doctrine of repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing that must be given by God -
2Ti 2:25), and therefore, he is a false convert that is lifted up in his pride, and thinks that if he feigns humility, by saying "God bless you," it will hide his heart, but Jesus said we can know this man's heart by what he's already said:
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18(See "The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances" here at creationliberty.com for more details.)I say these things for the good of Fred's soul, that he might be saved before the Day of Judgment, but he doesn't want to hear that. Thus, I'm done with him; I can't talk to a man who doesn't want to hear. He should just depart, and I'm ready to show him the door. However, if you guys want to talk with him more, that's up to you.
