Author Topic: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?  (Read 17758 times)

creationliberty

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2018, 11:15:17 AM »
I wanted to explain this a little more thoroughly because I had a scary dream last night, and it came to my mind what I think Will was doing in more detail. I'll see if I can explain it better; meaning of why he was cherry-picking those definitions out of context.

Most of you who have learned English have learned analogies, meaning that they teach them in school like this:
A kitten is to a cat, what a puppy is to a _______. (Fill in the blank)
Of course, the answer is "dog." The analogy is not to say that dogs and cats are the same, or that kittens and puppies are the same; they are obviously very different. The purpose of the analogy is to teach that both dogs and cats have a "baby" form they are in before they grow to be mature dogs and cats, but they do so in their own ways.

Likewise, the analogy here is:
A dream is to business, as a fool is to words.
The analogy is not to say that dreams and fools are the same, nor to say that the business and words are the same; they are obviously very different things, and can be used in very different ways. The purpose of the analogy is to teach the vanity behind a fool's voice.

Dreams come about through business, and in relation to the original question of this thread, just last night, I had a scary dream that my wife left me. This came about because last night, our church group was at our mid-week Bible study meeting, and Steve and I were talking about the situation where his wife left him many years ago. Even my wife's parents were in the dream trying to help me hunt her down to bring her back, which didn't make any sense because her parents do not like me at all, and would be ecstatic if she left me, but because we've been trying to give the Gospel to her parents over the past couple of weeks, they came up in the dream too, but in reality, it made no sense according to the truth.

So when I woke up, I had this feeling of dread, but then I remembered that Lorraine was still there, and I went and hugged her because I was glad she was there, but after a few minutes, I realized how completely silly it was for me to be concerned over some dream that didn't make any sense, or have any relevance to anything in reality.

Thus, a fool's voice comes about by how much he speaks; it's the same vain things that don't make any sense and have no relevance to anything in reality because he lies out of his mouth as a call to impress. What he says might even give you a good feeling in the passions of the moment, but it's all completely pointless and means nothing to God. For example, a pastor goes on a long prayer for show; it's complete vanity, and if you could see his entire life, everything that is done in secret, and compare it to the words of his showtime prayer, you would see completely vanity and hypocrisy. (SEE THIS LINK FOR DETAILS) Once you understand the truth, like waking up from a dream, the fool is recognized for what he is.
[v4] When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
The fool lies to everyone in the house of God, putting on a show so he can seem good on the outside, but inwardly, he is vain. He makes a vow to God in order to impress everyone else, but it means nothing inwardly because he has no intention of keeping it, and just as a dream is vain and means nothing, so too is the vow of a fool.

However, what Will attempted to do was change the analogy to this:
A dream is to business, as a fool is to business.
The context of Ecc 5 is not "business," but rather it is about fools who are liars, who put on a show when they go into a religious institution, trying to make themselves look sanctified on the outside. Indeed, busybodies attempt to make themselves look busy on the outside, and I can totally understand that, but this passage is not talking about busybodies specifically. Certainly, busybodies are fools, and sometimes, they are even fools who go into religious institutions to put on a show; I would not argue against that, but if this passage was only talking about busybodies, then the meaning of the verses would be limited to a smaller percentage of the Jewish population, and it would not condemn all liars; only a few of them.

In short, Will is changing the analogy, cherry-picking definitions that support the change he made, and by that, he is then eliminating many of the sinners that God is referring to in this passage. Let me know if any of you understand that more clearly now, and if my explanation made sense.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Matt

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2018, 12:45:55 PM »
Very well said Chris

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2018, 03:45:58 PM »
Yes, that helps.
My dreams have never been much of a concern to me, however, this understanding of scripture really makes more sense out of my personal experiences.

BTW: "respect the finger!"  ;D ;D ;D
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Jeanne

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2018, 03:09:07 AM »
By Will's method, nobody could ever understand the Bible without a dictionary close at hand, and God never meant for His Word to be interpreted by some outside source.

strangersmind

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2018, 06:52:09 PM »
This is why I am so thankful for having The God who gave us his word with a built-in dictionary

WillCullum

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2018, 09:19:10 PM »
I've been giving the option to repent or move on for the offense of false teaching.  For this reason I have taken a serious look into the disagreement.  I have concluded I was in error with my initial post on this topic.  When I made my initial post I didn't fully consider the gravity of the situation.  Nor did I expect some to think I was trying to teach.  I have learned from this and will be more careful in the future just as the passage we are studying commands.  My original purpose was to share that I did not believe the passage in question was for the purpose of addressing why one has scary dreams.  I believed that by using the words "Ecc 5:3 tells me" I would not be forcing my understanding on others.  Clearly I was in error.  It does grieve me that so much time was spent on explanations do to my carelessness with words.  Had I stated my thoughts as a question the conversation could have been more edifying.  An example could be: How can one understand the passage as a whole (Ecc 5;1-7), using a definition like [The thought or series of thoughts of a person in sleep. A dream is a series of thoughts not under the command of reason, and hence wild and irregular.] for the word "dream" when in verse 7 there is correlation between "many words" which we can control and "multitude of dreams" which by the definition offered is out of one's control? 

Then after carelessly entering the discussion I continued down the same path of apathy after being question on how I came to my conclusion.  Rather than fully engage the question in a workman like spirit I just offered a quick answer to an important question.  "Where did you get your definitions?"  I did copy and paste from a Webster 1828, as a shortcut to an explanation on how the context of the passage Ecc 5:1-7 cause me to believe the definitions for "dream" and "business" were different than what had been previously offered.  A better approach would have been to ask a series of questions regarding the passage. 

Would it be correct to conclude that "multitude" and "many" are synonyms and the two are antonyms of "few"?

Would it be correct to conclude that we are warned against a "multitude" or "many" words?

Would it be correct to conclude that we have control of our words?

Would it be correct to conclude there is an analogy, in Ecc 5:7, made between "multitude of dreams" and "many words"?

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

ThomasHGW

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2018, 06:10:31 AM »
Ecclesiastes 5:7 (KJV)  For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

Quote
Would it be correct to conclude there is an analogy, in Ecc 5:7, made between "multitude of dreams" and "many words"?

What do you mean by analogy?
The verse connects them using "and"
I guess I'm asking whats your point in concluding there is an analogy between the two?
The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.   -Psalms 119:72

Jeanne

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2018, 08:51:59 AM »
This whole passage is comparing dreams to the multitude of words of the fool; neither one makes any sense.

As for what can cause scary dreams, Natalie has a lot going on right now with her mum in hospital. Stress can cause bad dreams, which is what is meant by a dream coming from 'a multitude of business'.

creationliberty

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2018, 11:30:23 AM »
Ecclesiastes 5:7 (KJV)  For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

Quote
Would it be correct to conclude there is an analogy, in Ecc 5:7, made between "multitude of dreams" and "many words"?

What do you mean by analogy?
The verse connects them using "and"
I guess I'm asking whats your point in concluding there is an analogy between the two?
Thomas is on the right track here, and that's why I had questioned if you, Will, had understood what an analogy is, and furthermore, now I would question if you know how to recognize one. There is no comparison being made in verse 7, rather, there is a description, with the key nouns in the sentence being "dream," "word," and "vanity." There is nothing being compared, but rather, verse 7 (as I have already told you earlier in email), is referring back to the analogy  (i.e. comparison) in verse 3. Therefore, the question is about verse 3. If verse 7 finds any use in this discussion, it would be in backing up the doctrine I previously explained in this thread, namely, that business which comes up in a dream is vain, as those words which come up in a fool are vain.

Neither business (daily activities) nor words (that which is spoken) are vain of themselves, but it is through the medium that they come about which makes them vain. As I stated before in email, I am at a loss to come up with an easier way to state this or break this down further; perhaps someone else may have a way to do that.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

WillCullum

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2018, 02:28:37 PM »
Ecclesiastes 5:7 (KJV)  For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

Quote
Would it be correct to conclude there is an analogy, in Ecc 5:7, made between "multitude of dreams" and "many words"?

What do you mean by analogy?
The verse connects them using "and"
I guess I'm asking whats your point in concluding there is an analogy between the two?

Thomas thank you for correcting me on terminology.  I wrote "analogy" but what I meant was "similitude".  What a difference that makes.  Sorry everyone for that miss use of terms.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

ThomasHGW

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2018, 03:29:20 PM »
An analogy is an agreement or likeness between things and similitude is likeness or resemblance, still I have to ask, what is the conclusion you are coming to?
Again, the verse connects the phrase multitude of dreams with many words using "and", I am not sure what the question is
The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.   -Psalms 119:72

WillCullum

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Re: Why Do I Have Scary Dreams?
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2018, 10:11:01 PM »
Thomas, my conclusion is: I don't believe I'm gifted with the resources to be a teacher to the sheep at least at this time.  I believe I'm more of a workman and student.  I want to make it known that if I question the way God's word is applied in the future I'll certainly ask questions rather than assert my conclusions.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.