Will, I have to call you out on this one because that's deceptive. I know what you're doing, even if others here don't see it yet. Of course, I'll make a disclaimer that IF you did not catch yourself doing this, then it is simply error and not deception, but if you know what you're doing, that's deception. You went to Webster's 1828 to get your definition for 'dream'--I knew that before you posted that you did. You went straight to the third definition, and skipped over the first.
dream (n): the thought or series of thoughts of a person in sleep
You didn't tell everyone that, and that's why I tried, at first, to be gentle and say that claiming to "assert" the definition is not how we ought to read Scripture, but you continued to try to justify yourself, and now I'm very curious as to why.
You did the same thing with the definition of "business;" you skipped down to the fourth definition, instead of looking at the first. Instead of using the context of the Word of God for your foundation, you're cherry-picking from a list of definitions, selecting which ever definition satisfies your own theories. Again, that is precisely what the new-age leavened churchgoers are doing with their lexicons and concordances.
For example, on the term 'business' you specifically selected a definition that is NOT used in Ecc 5's Biblical context, in order to support your hypothesis. QUOTE:
"In other words Ecc 5:3 tells me that busy-bodies cause unfounded suspicions."
First of all, I want everyone to notice that I gave an explanation and interpretation of precisely what was being talked about, including prefaced context, whereas Will simply selected two specific fractions of definitions used. Second, Will, when you looked up 'dream', you honed in on the phrase "unfounded suspicions," and when you went to 'business', under the fourth definition, you applied it to Scripture in a way in which the word was not used. Look at the example from Websters under #4:
'What business has a man with the disputes of others?'
This is being used in a way of concern, like, "Hey, that's none of my business," meaning "That's none of my concern." I'll insert the word you're trying to make it say:
For a dream cometh through the multitude of concern; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.
-Ecc 5:3
That simply does not make sense. I once had a dream that Michael J. Fox helped me escape a deserted island using an impossibly long step ladder to get onto a cruise ship that was passing by. I did not express any concern for deserted islands or Michael J. Fox during my week, but when I thought back on it, it was more because of my "business" or rather, the things which I did during my week, like seeing a video in passing that explain Fox's disability, talking with someone about boats (which led me to remember being on a cruise ship with my parents), etc, and that's because "a dream cometh through the multitude of business," and I know that you know this to be true (because we've all experienced it, which is why it is a good example in Scripture for all men to understand), so why are you fighting this?
QUOTE:
"I cannot reason in a fashion that would allow the use of the word 'dream' in these instances to be related to sleeping like we generally do in bed at night."
To say that you "cannot reason" this definition is absurd because that is what this passage of Scripture is talking about and I've already explained why; since this is what God meant by His Word, that means you are definitely capable of reasoning the Scripture according to this definition because he has given you that ability. You might be UNWILLING, but you are surely able. I could almost guarantee that every other person here could understand that concept, and they are welcome to speak up for themselves, but I would like to know why you would go so far as to claim that you "cannot reason" it in that same way, which we both know is not true.
So that no one else is confused by what you just said, let me quote the two verses in which the word dream is used in this passage:
(v3) For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.
(v7) For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.
Verse 7 is actually affirming my previous post about the meaning of this passage; that dreams, which are the thoughts in our sleep, come about from a bunch of business that we do and think about while we are awake, and those dreams are vanity (i.e. useless). Unless God comes to communicate to a man in a dream, the dreams are vain, which is an analogy for us to understand the (useless) words of a fool, who also speaks in his vanity, speaking according to the multitude of his business, but not in accordance with repentance and faith in the Living God.
Just as the dreams we dream when we sleep are incoherent, vague, unintelligible, and unreasonable, so too are the words of the fool who comes into the house of God to offer oblations on pretense. When the Bible wants to refer to busybodies, there is a term God uses for that:
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
-1Pe 4:15
Now, that being said, the proverbs of Ecc 5 CAN apply to busybodies, because none of them should speak rashly with their mouths. I have used this verse to tell such people that, but the context is not speaking directly to busybodies; it is an analogy for men to understand that the mouths of those who are religious hypocrites will speak rashly, and cause swift destruction to fall upon themselves, when they perform religious traditions on the outside while rejecting the grief and godly sorrow (i.e. repentance) of their sins.
