Zach Shrader-22 from Indiana

[zachshrader]

I just had written this really long description that took me forever, but i left my computer and it automatically logged me out so now its all gone.     

I attended a church all my life and that church is the same as most other churches.  Celebrating holidays, preaching of only good things with incorrect interpretations and I attended that church and was deceived until i was 15 when i moved in with my mother when my dad and step mom moved to Florida for work.  my mother didnt discipline me so i was rebellious and started hanging out with the wrong crowd and had gotten into drinking and cursing and smoking pot and experimenting with other drugs, also fornicating as well.  During all this time i made a friend who Jesus Christ had revealed himself to and he would tell my friends and i about the satanism in the music that we listened to but we brushed it off and continued in our ways.  fast forward to 20 years old and i had found new age and experimented with the pineal gland and felt the vibration in my four head like the articles would say. I started noticing evil things in my everyday life such as when i hung out with my friends i was noticing just how violent and messed up the video games my friends and i were playing and how messed up the music really was,  but one night i was smoking pot and relaxing in bed focusing heavily on my pineal gland, and my entire body started tingling, sort of like an electrifying feeling.  that really freaked me out and i felt like it was a demonic presence or something so i cut that stuff out right away.  That brought me to the Lord Jesus Christ and me accepting him as my savior.  I cut out all the television, all the music, all the horrible food like mcdonalds and all that,  cut out all the holidays, everything   i totally switched to organic etc and had started reading the bible starting with the gospels.  i started to feel heavy heavy sorrow in myself and my sin and everyone else sinning around me.  so i tried talking to my family and rebuked them, but they didnt want to hear it and it really seemed like they hate me.  theyve sort of come to accept it but i cant talk about it to them or they get really really angry.  They even claim that Jesus Christ is their saviors so i figured they would hear.  During all of my teenage years and even til now ive had the same girlfriend.  literally 2 weeks before i was saved i was still sinning and fornicating.  after i had decided to stop all these things, 2 weeks after my girlfriend found out she was pregnant with my now son who is 1.5 years old.  for a long time i was sinning in refusing to marry but i never knew the truth of marrying according to the state and by all of the pagan traditions.  about 2 weeks ago from today i finally told my girlfriend about it and she was absolutely devastated, crying and telling me i was taking everything away from her but she has not left me yet, and day by day shes asking me questions about it,  just like she did with the holidays and vaccinations and organic foods.  of course she still celebrates the holidays but she is more accepting and is allowing me to raise our son in the way of truth in our Lord Jesus Christ despite all of the anger and frustration from her family and even my own.  I praise God and Jesus Christ for revealing himself to me and allowing me to be one of the few that are chosen and i pray that i do not stray from the faith,  and i pray that my girlfriend will soon be my wife and that she will be saved before her death or before revelation be fulfilled, and that my son will not stray from the faith even with all of our families fighting against me, i pray that he not be deceived and that the Lord will allow him to be saved.  thanks for reading this, if there's anything that you see here or ever see in the future, please rebuke me.  Thanks again, Im glad to be here!  Also sorry if all my grammar and punctuation is horrible i wrote something much longer than this like i said, but it was all erased...  So ive left some info out if you have any questions ask away.

[TruthKeeper]

Hi Zachary... I am new here too. Your testimony is amazing.... to understand all of this at a young age is awesome and shows your maturity. Your son sure has a great father that is going to raise him right and show him who God really is. Don't back down on your convictions with your family. They will either come around or have to get over it. We are to love and serve the Lord. I recently did some studies on the New Age movement and it's so deceptive and it's seducing so many young people. Thank God you saw the light and got out of that evilness!

[Jeanne]

Wow, Zach, that's some testimony! I'm really not sure (and Chris would be able to answer this a lot better than I can), but it sounds like if you've been living with this girl and have a child with her, you may already be married in a Biblical sense. I hope she is willing to stay with you through all the changes you're making in your life. It's good that she's willing to listen to you, at least.

I do understand that it is hard when everyone you thought you knew, including family members, suddenly turn on you when you try to do what's right according to Scripture. But Jesus told us that would happen. The world hated Him first (which was why they wanted to crucify Him) and He told His disciples that they could expect the same treatment.

I'm glad you found us here and I hope we can be a source of support and encouragement for you. Just out of curiosity, how did you happen to come across this group?

P.S. When you log in, there's a space that asks you how long to stay logged in. I have mine set to 'forever' so it never logs me out unless I manually log out. Just something to keep in mind in case you get interrupted while typing. I've had situations where I had replied to a post but forgot to hit the button to actually post it until I came back hours later. That usually happens when I stop to go look something up and then get sidetracked and forget about it...

[zachshrader]

hey i found the forever log in thing lol. I found this group because i acutally live in the same town as Chris and my old friend showed him to me.  Small world huh?  Im not sure about the marriage either, but I have never declared with my own words and hers as well that that we are married together before God and Jesus Christ so as far as my understanding goes were not married.  I pray that Jesus Christ change her heart on this matter, but i pray that Gods will be done for me whatever it is.  And yes, when everyone suddenly turns on me Christ did tell us that would happen which only proves it to be more true for me!  Im living it and seeing it with my own eyes, its amazing!  It baffles me how people dont believe but then again they love to sin and lust, but the word of God is on their hearts whether they would like to believe it or not.

[Jeanne]

Wow, that is so cool that you live right near Chris and Lorraine! You know, Lorraine has a business raising and selling organic fruits and veggies, so that might be a good source for you. If money is an issue for you in that regard, Lorraine might be willing to trade labour for produce. I'm not going to speak for her and you'd have to talk to her yourself, but I do know she works a regular job, too, and is always looking for people to help out with the gardening and making deliveries.

I'm sure you know Chris has an article on his website about marriage, but he's in the process of completely redoing it and adding a lot more to it. It sounds like this is going to be another book-length one like several of his other articles. Regardless, I really hope you can get to know Chris and Lorraine personally. The closest I ever get to them is Skype. It's wonderful that you live so close to them!

[TheChickenWhisperer]

Zach, how long have you lived there?  I also used to live in the same town and your name sounded familiar.

[Suelong88]

Welcome Zach!

[zachshrader]

welcome Sue!  Tonya, ive lived in waldron since i was 16 but ive moved into my own places a couple times.  so ive lived in waldron for about 4 years total.

[Masha]

Hi Zach, glad you found the forum. I find your testimony very encouraging. I share some of your experiences like newage and family friends being hostile. I pray the Lord will help you to know and do His will for your life, may the Lord richly bless you and protect you.
Masha

[anvilhauler]

Hi Zach

Welcome to the forum from me too.

but it sounds like if you've been living with this girl and have a child with her, you may already be married in a Biblical sense.

To be married it is necessary to have asked the other person "will you marry me?", and then if the response is "yes" then that is it, you are married and have then entered in to a covenant relationship and each of the persons should know what their obligations and requirements are in regards to that covenant.  Without the covenant agreement to be held to it is still just fornication even if two people have been together for a very long time and have children etc etc.

[Jeanne]

You're right, Kevin. I still want to emphasise the difference between a Biblical marriage and a 'legal' one, though. To be married in the sight of God does not require a license from the state or to have any type of authority figure officiate any type of ceremony.

When Isaac married Rebecca in Genesis, Abraham's servant simply brought her back from the land she was from, Isaac took her into his mother's tent (Sarah had recently died) and she was his wife. As far as I can tell from Scripture, the only thing required to constitute a marriage is agreement between the two parties to be married and then to have it consummated.

The modern traditions regarding weddings all originated with the Catholic Church and their adaptation of pagan rituals.

[Masha]

I find this discussion about marriage kinda odd. You are saying that if two people simply agree and do some kind of ceremony (before God) they are officially married, yet do not have to be bound by a legal agreement. I find that very strange. It's like : " God is my witness" and no accountability whatsoever beside that.
The ' legal' marriage will allow you to have a married status in all kinds of different situations. when a spouse fall sick, or in hospital, the person you are married to gets contacted, not the person only you, and God know you got married too.
There are a lot more examples I could come up with to show that it is necessary to be bound by a legal agreement for the society to acknowledge the marriage. You can say: I don't care about the  world to acknowledge, but there is supposed to be accountability, right??

Ive heard many stories about african men seducing women into marrieing them this way, they only do a ceremony in church and they say its is valid. When it comes down to staying permits, birth certificates, etc. then the story becomes a different one. I ve heard over and over again that the so called marriage; was no longer respected whenever trouble arrived.

I was in a relationship with someone long ago, we were together for a long time, we lived together etc. We were not ' officially' married, but for us both we were going to be together for life. Yet he fell sick and died, and during that process , even though I took care of him, I was in no way considered during his sickbed, death, and funeral. Nor did I get any of his inheritance or things. That was a eye opener to me. It is important to have a ' valid' marriage, simply because the world will treat you as married. And if you dont, they won't.

Tit 3:1  Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

[Timothy]

I find that very strange. It's like : " God is my witness" and no accountability whatsoever beside that.

Who said there is no accountability? That doesn't even make sense that if God is the witness, then why would you think nobody in that is accountable to God? I mean that aught to be a no-brainer for a Christian.

There are a lot more examples I could come up with to show that it is necessary to be bound by a legal agreement for the society to acknowledge the marriage. You can say: I don't care about the  world to acknowledge, but there is supposed to be accountability, right??

Again, who said there is no accountability? If a man and a woman agree to marry, and that marriage is a biblical one instituted by God, then aren't they both accountable to God to keep that marriage (keeping their word)? If they don't then one or both of them are liars. And the accountability will be to God for not keeping their word. Also this thing about society acknowledging the marriage, why should that even matter if God acknowledges it?

The accountability that you are talking about is one of the world. But among the church, this shouldn't be an issue when both parties are of Christ and his doctrine.

Ive heard many stories about african men seducing women into marrieing them this way, they only do a ceremony in church and they say its is valid. When it comes down to staying permits, birth certificates, etc. then the story becomes a different one. I ve heard over and over again that the so called marriage; was no longer respected whenever trouble arrived.

That's because they are liars and will be judged by God on judgment day as guilty and cast into the lake of fire if they don't repent and believe on Christ who died for their sins because they are accountable to God to keep their word of marriage. It's like you are trying to say that if they get a liscence they will somehow not be liars.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Tit 3:1  Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

I don't know the laws where you live, but if you are going to quote this as if it applies to everyone here then you need to provide laws saying that we must obtain a marriage liscenses to be biblically married in our countries. But even if you could, that law would be the government overstepping their bounds preventing something that God institutes. It would be like the government saying, "You can't be an evangelist without signing a contract with us." God joins together the husband and wife, not the government.

Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

If you can't trust your spouse enough for fear of being decieved, lied to, and taken advantage of then you are not marrying for the right reasons with focus on the doctrines and teachings of Christ to keep your word and love your wife or husband as your own bodies.

[creationliberty]

Tim, thank you for addressing that in such a thorough and simple manner. You saved me a lot of time. 

I'm still working on the new teaching, and it'll be some time before I'm done. I'll address a lot of this later, and I'm even going to do a new audio teaching over all of it eventually.

[Joop]

Interesting discussion about marriage. I understand both Masha and Tim/Christopher. As I see it, the (Dutch) government cannot force us to get a so called legal married state. However that could have consequences as Masha pointed out. I will have to listen carefully to the teachings about marriage on CLE, (and future teachings). So, I will rest my case, for now. Lots of things to learn...

[Jeanne]

The issue is what constitutes a marriage in the sight of GOD, not necessarily in the sight of man. A state-sanctioned marriage is nothing more than a legal contract. In many places, it is legal to marry someone of the same sex, but that is not recognised as marriage by God, whether they got married in a church or not.

In the situation Masha was talking about, that whole business could have been resolved if the man had simply taken the time to make a will before he died. I realise none of us knows when we are going to die, which is why it is important to make legal arrangements for your partner as soon as possible if you are not going to go to the state (government) to recognise your marital status.

Chris and Lorraine don't have a marriage license or certificate, either, but that doesn't mean they aren't married in the sight of God. As far as I know, they still have to declare themselves single on income tax forms, but again, marriage in the sight of God is not the same thing as marriage in the sight of man (or government).

[anvilhauler]

As far as I can tell from Scripture, the only thing required to constitute a marriage is agreement between the two parties to be married and then to have it consummated.

I had meant to comment too that as in Chris' teaching on marriage, sexual consummation is also not of necessity for the marriage covenant, but usually that will be done and should be done by a married couple and hence not defrauding one another.  Some people may have a medical condition or advanced age that does not allow them to have sexual consummation, but that doesn't exclude them from being permitted to enter into a marriage covenant.

[Jeanne]

Okay, I might be going a bit off-topic here, but that brings up the question of the difference between being married and being betrothed in the Bible. Mary was betrothed to Joseph, in that they had both agreed to be married, but they weren't actually married yet. Mary was still a virgin. What was it that brought them from a state of betrothal to being married, if it wasn't the consummation?

[anvilhauler]

Okay, I might be going a bit off-topic here, but that brings up the question of the difference between being married and being betrothed in the Bible. Mary was betrothed to Joseph, in that they had both agreed to be married, but they weren't actually married yet. Mary was still a virgin. What was it that brought them from a state of betrothal to being married, if it wasn't the consummation?

I have often wondered the same.  But we aren't given any details.  It could be as simple as both holding off on asking each other to be their marriage partner because they are still saving for accommodation, or saving for the costs of the food for the wedding, or even just holding off and waiting to make sure they are making the right decision.  In today's world we have engagement (betrothal) even in a Biblical marriage before asking the other person to marry you  .....  isn't that the same. 

Also Jesus was at the wedding.  Wed  ing   ....  the time at which they were wed   .....  in front of the guests   .....  when they left to go and consummate the marriage they were already husband and wife. 

A hypothetical situation.  The big Biblical wedding takes place (no yucky state contract) and both the husband and the wife ask each other to be their wife and husband respectively and then declare to all of those there that they are now married.  Woohoo, happy days.  Sadly, on leaving the marriage venue and on the way to the place they are to spend their first night together they are involved in a traffic accident and the injuries to one of them means they will never ever be able to have sex. 

Are the couple still married in the sight of God? 

Can the one without the injuries divorce the injured one and go off and marry someone else because they want to have a sex life?

Personally I think not.  I see it that they are still married because they gave their word.  I could be wrong so if anyone sees it differently than this then I'm totally open to correction.

[Masha]

Thanks Timothy for your responce. I quess in a Biblical view you are right about this:

"That's because they are liars and will be judged by God on judgment day as guilty and cast into the lake of fire if they don't repent and believe on Christ who died for their sins because they are accountable to God to keep their word of marriage. It's like you are trying to say that if they get a liscence they will somehow not be liars."

I find it rather tricky though where in situations the only accountability is towards God ,and God then is the only one that knows the heart and knows the truth about someone intentions and someones decisions. I have seen this being abused so often,...