Guidance Please

[Laura]

Hello, Everyone!

I am new here and need some help and guidance on how to handle sharing all of the information on this site with my husband. Perhaps you have been in my situation and can relate and offer some suggestions. Or perhaps your response is just to engage in prayer over the issue. Either way, I appreciate your attention and support, and I hope this post is not in any violation of the rules.

I have been slowly sharing with my husband the truth behind the holidays we celebrate and call Christian, that in fact have evil, pagan roots. He has been open to hearing it, and agrees with most of it, but has communicated to me that he is exhausted with it all. He thinks I am trying to find ways to be different because I eat plant based, use cloth diapers, do not vaccinate, and now I am challenging all our traditions. He is more concerned with our child being accepted by the world, than doing what God has commanded us to do. I understand what the scriptures say about Christians being set apart. I do not want to raise our daughter to participate in all the pagan traditions of men, but my husband is not entirely on the same page. I do not know what to do. I also understand that he is the head of our family, and I even feel guilty coming on here asking for help. Should I? We recently got into an argument over participating in an infant dedication at our church. He wants to do it and I do not. I feel it is the same thing as an infant baptism without the water. It is beginning to take a toll on our relationship, which is not good. Do I just let it go, and join him in willful ignorance to be an obedient wife? I tried to offer a solution and compromise by designating an hour a week to share this information, which is important to me, but he just brushed the idea aside. I love my husband very much and I pray that God works inside of him to accept the truth and have the strength and courage to act on it. I am at a loss as of what to do. Perhaps I just need to focus on the power of prayer. I know the lifestyle changes that accompany these truths do not happen overnight. Patience is always something I have struggled with.

Thanks in advance for your guidance. I would also appreciate your prayers.

Warm Regards,
Laura

[creationliberty]

Hello, Everyone!

I am new here and need some help and guidance on how to handle sharing all of the information on this site with my husband. Perhaps you have been in my situation and can relate and offer some suggestions. Or perhaps your response is just to engage in prayer over the issue. Either way, I appreciate your attention and support, and I hope this post is not in any violation of the rules.

The rules are setup for those who come here to cause trouble. I don't think you're one of those. You don't have to worry about rules when we use Christ's rules in treating one another the way we would want to be treated. (Mat 7:12)

I have been slowly sharing with my husband the truth behind the holidays we celebrate and call Christian, that in fact have evil, pagan roots. He has been open to hearing it, and agrees with most of it, but has communicated to me that he is exhausted with it all. He thinks I am trying to find ways to be different because I eat plant based, use cloth diapers, do not vaccinate, and now I am challenging all our traditions.

Perhaps you may want someone else's perspective on this one, but just by what you've told me so far, if what you're saying is true, then I have to say you're husband's lying to you. Some may rather wish I would say he's not being honest, but not being honest is lying. I understand that might surprise you, but look at what you said: "He agrees with most of it." If he agrees with it, then what's the problem? If he understands what these traditions represent, then the real question is: Where is his conviction?

Now, perhaps you're in a situation and Lorraine and I were in, and the same situation I got into with my family. I think many of them, like my wife, my mom, my dad... they all resisted what I was telling them at first, especially my wife. She got real fussy with me, but eventually, she gathered up every wreath and Christmas decoration we had in our house and burned them, and then she went overboard and started coming down real hard on people who celebrate Christmas, and then after a couple more years, she balanced out to being patient and understanding with others. In short, it could be you just need to be patient for a bit, but I don't know how long this has been going on in your family.

He is more concerned with our child being accepted by the world, than doing what God has commanded us to do.

When there is no conviction from the Holy Spirit on such matters, then you need to ask yourself more pointed questions. For example: What type of people in this world do not receive conviction from the Spirit of God on matters of sin? I can't make those judgments from where I'm sitting because I can only read two paragraphs, whereas you see and experience these things every day. Food for thought.

I understand what the scriptures say about Christians being set apart. I do not want to raise our daughter to participate in all the pagan traditions of men, but my husband is not entirely on the same page. I do not know what to do. I also understand that he is the head of our family, and I even feel guilty coming on here asking for help. Should I?

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
-Pro 12:15

We recently got into an argument over participating in an infant dedication at our church.

Why? I don't mean "why did you get in an argument," but rather, "why does he want to go to an infant dedication?" Frankly, it's one step away from the baptismal regeneration of the Catholic Church.

He wants to do it and I do not. I feel it is the same thing as an infant baptism without the water.

Haha! I'm responding as I'm reading this, I didn't read you say that yet, and we both came to the same conclusion. 

It is beginning to take a toll on our relationship, which is not good. Do I just let it go, and join him in willful ignorance to be an obedient wife? I tried to offer a solution and compromise by designating an hour a week to share this information, which is important to me, but he just brushed the idea aside.

You can tell him that Christ has convicted you that it's wicked and you don't want anything to do with it, and then he gets really overbearing and forces you to go; not really sure if he'd do that. Or, you could use it as an opportunity to rebuke everyone there, demanding Scriptural justification from them, but most Christians I've met get too nervous to do such a thing (which is understandable, but we ought to trust God), most especially women, which is completely understandable from the female perspective. I don't have an easy answer for you.

I love my husband very much and I pray that God works inside of him to accept the truth and have the strength and courage to act on it. I am at a loss as of what to do. Perhaps I just need to focus on the power of prayer. I know the lifestyle changes that accompany these truths do not happen overnight. Patience is always something I have struggled with.

Thanks in advance for your guidance. I would also appreciate your prayers.

Warm Regards,
Laura

That's the best I've got. Not sure what else to say.

[Laura]

Thank you, Christopher, for your detailed response! I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

I agree that my comments seemed to contradict each other, but those are the mixed messages I am receiving. On one hand, my husband has been open to hearing about the origins of the holidays and agrees that we, as Christians, should not partake in those celebrations, while at the same time, he is not ready to give them up. I do not think he has an issue with us not putting up decorations or celebrating as a family unit of three; however, I know if I told him today that I did not want to participate in the celebrations (Christmas, Easter) with either of our extended families, he would get angry and defensive. At this point in time, spending that time with family is more important to him (along with being a blind sheep and going with the way of the world). I have tried to suggest that it is more meaningful to give gifts and spend time together when it is not under an obligation, but he does not seem ready to take a stand with me.

So to your question, where is his conviction? All I can say is, not the same place as mine. I hope that I can start to plant seeds with our families, but it is so much easier said than done. Us not putting up decorations will garner questions that will naturally initiate a conversation on the topic, but speaking up against something (especially with his family) will be very difficult for me. Since I do not consume meat or dairy and his mom grew up on a dairy farm, there are already tensions between us.

I first found out about these things a year ago. I did not want to put up a tree last year, but was pressured by my mother. I plan to be stronger this year, and do eventually want to get rid of all our holiday things. I have told my husband that if I can do it anyone can, as I hold so many memories and warm feelings from these traditions. Despite that, I know what the Lord wants me/us to do and I am willing to let it all go.

As for the infant dedication, my husband grew up in a church that did not do infant baptisms, while I grew up in one that did. So he does not see the parallels between the two. He does not see anything wrong with professing to the church his intention to raise our daughter in a Christian home. I keep asking him why we need to make a public declaration of something that we (and the church) obviously know we are going to do. We have not been to church much since the birth of our daughter, and I think he feels pressure to attend and participate. Knowing what I know about the corruptions of the church, this has not bothered me like it has him. I fear if I bring up one more topic on the matter, he will lose his mind and patience with me! (Please do not misunderstand, not in a violent way!)

[creationliberty]

He's still attached to tradition. That's obvious. I don't know what to do about that. That's why I put out teachings and sanctify myself from people who don't want to hear. You can't really do that in a marriage. There is no solution but patience and consistency. I learned very quickly in ministry something I think a lot of people never seem to figure out--you can't make anyone listen, and there's no point in forcing it because only God can convert people; we just tell them the truth and move on and do what's right.

[TheChickenWhisperer]

Laura, I just want to encourage you.  Chris already covered what I was thinking as I read your post.  Unfortunately, I followed my husband in these matters.  I wish I had known enough to take more of a stand.  I hope you will be able to speak to him in a way he can truly hear you.  All of us have to have information said to us in just the right way sometimes for us to truly hear what is being said.

[strangersmind]

Laura, there are bible verses that may help.
1 Corinthians 7
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.


A nether one is be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.

[Dee Babbitt]

Laura,
we will keep you in prayer...for your husband, your baby, and the family around you...that your efforts will produce the desired outcome.  May God speak to your husband, and the Holy Spirit give him the conviction he needs.
As I was telling Tonya (about her friend who doesn't want to "see" the truth about the Xmas traditions), sometimes when the guys say no, they still think about what you've said to them, and then will see that it is true, and come around and agree with you.
1 Peter
Chapter 3
1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

Just an idea, what if you tell your husband, "If the whole world loves the xmas tradition, you know it's got to be wrong."

Joshua (my youngest son, and a member here at CLE) and I, went plant based for a couple years.  (we are now incorporating a few animal products)  And we can relate to how family treats us different :-)

In our family of five (three sons ages 20, 26 and 27) it is only Joshua and I who have repented, been saved, and born-again.  When Joshua explained to his father and brothers that Xmas and Easter were pagan holidays, we were surprised that they agreed to stop the festivities.  Josh and I immediately disposed of our tree and the decorations.
 We haven't had a tree up for the past three years.  But just this past weekend, Joshua's dad and one brother have mentioned they are "missing" the festivities.  So we have made half of the household unhappy...and find ourselves having to do more convincing.  It can be emotionally exhausting. 

[smolemong]

As an unmarried person I tend to feel ill qualified to give people any marriage related advice for obvious reasons, however this scripture occurred to me:
2 Timothy 3:14 KJV
"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;"
Ask for GOD'S grace to do what is right in HIS sight in spite of the challenging circumstances. Only GOD can turn your husband to obedience and that will almost certainly take time. You mentioned struggling with being patient, it is the things that try us that produce patience...

[Jeanne]

Laura, I know this is hard, and I don't know what I can add to what has already been said. But instead of giving in to him in doing what you know is wrong, I would suggest that you tell him if he wants to go visit his family for Christmas, that's fine, but you won't be joining him. Same for the infant dedication thing at the church. Emphasise that you love him, but you are not going to go against what you know God wants to please him.

He may get mad for a while, but I think he will end up respecting you more for standing up for what you believe in. I would tell him that you don't want to be forced to make a choice between him and the Lord Jesus Christ, but if it comes down to that, you will choose Christ.

He's free to do what he wants, but that doesn't mean you have to go along and do it, too.

[Laura]

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, words of encouragement, and Scripture quotes! I will certainly use this page, and more importantly the Word of God, as a source when I am feeling defeated in my efforts. I sincerely appreciate your prayers. It is such a great reminder that only God can change my husband and only in His time. I also appreciate those of you sharing that are in or have been in a similar situation. While it remains in His hands, I will continue praying and doing all that I am able to for as long as it takes. I do realize these changes take time, and I need to have patience and understanding along the way.

Christopher,
Yes, he is still attached to tradition and has said he wants our daughter to be normal and accepted. It is concerning that this is more important to him than following the instructions God has laid out for us. I completely agree that you cannot force people to think or act a certain way. Similarly, I have tried sharing with my parents how a plant-based diet can help heal them and get them off of their pills, but they are so stuck to their ways. Even if they know it can make them healthy, they are not willing to give up the foods they have been eating their entire lives. All I can do is provide the information. The rest is up to them.

Tonya,
I really like what you said. I am very direct and blunt and do not always have the best delivery. I need to evaluate how and when I share the information.

Billy,
Thank you for providing helpful Scripture! I am embarrassed to say that in all my years as a Christian I did not read my Bible much; which I am sure does not come as a surprise, as that is likely the case for many so-called Christians today. I have started reading both the Old and New Testaments since getting my KJV Bible and hope to become more familiar with specific verses to recall like this in the future.

Dee,
Thank you for sharing your situation! I am happy to hear that you and your son are saved, but sorry your husband and other sons are not quite there yet. It is inspiring to know that I am not alone. In addition to leaning on God, we can look to each other for support.

Silindile,
I can understand your hesitation to give advice, but I am so glad you did! What you said is so true and it was exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you!

Jeanne,
You are exactly right. I do not have to participate even if he does. I understand that the Bible tells us that our families will be divided, but I do not want it to drive my husband and I apart. I need to pray for strength to do what he calls me to do!

Matthew 10:35-40 KJV
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

[Jeanne]

Laura, I totally understand that you don't want these issues to drive you and your husband apart, but I can tell you from experience that once you make any sort of compromise, it just becomes that much harder to make a stand later as he will use your weakness against you in an attempt to continue to get you to go along with what HE wants.

I pray that he will respect you enough to not put you in that type of situation, but any person who would try to force someone to do what they know to be wrong does not love or respect that person to begin with. That goes for any type of relationship, whether it be in marriage, friendship, siblings, or parents and children.

True love needs to be based on mutual respect and working to bring out the best, not the worst, in the other person. If he tries to use the 'If you really loved me, you'd do this for me' tactic, turn it right back at him and tell him that if he really loves you, he would't ask you to do it.

I might also ask him whether it's really more important to him that your daughter be accepted by other people than by Christ.

Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.

[creationliberty]

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. [i.e. division - see Luke 12:51] For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
-Mat 10:34-39

[Laura]

Jeanne,
That is a valid point, and I appreciate you encouraging me to stand up for myself and my convictions. I do not think my husband would ever make a statement like that, and if he did, you can be sure I would turn it right back around on him!

Christopher,
That is the same Scripture I had in mind! I posted it above, but it is off by about one verse from yours. Thanks for sharing. I will look up the Luke reference. I am actually in Luke 11 right now, so I am almost to that verse in my reading.

[zachshrader]

Whats worked for me is standing my ground.  I do not compromise on the Word of God whatsoever.  When i felt convicted about the holidays and vaccinations and stuff I made it perfectly clear what my stance was,  and i wasnt really so patient about it.  For the vaccinations I had to make her sit down and watch tons of videos and i read her tons of articles and that information scared her because vaccine injury is pretty scary, but then she has everyone going against me and telling her that she needs to stand her ground against me But I prayed and my friend prayed for me also and now she agrees on that subject.  And for the holidays It was just a straight up,  "No way im not doing it and Im not raising my son to do something that i think is wrong" and then evidence of why its wrong for Christians to do so.  Christmas is coming up soon and my girlfriends family is saying things like "Were having a blah blah blah christmas party and you and Noah ARE coming"  (Noah is my son)  and she is going however she has stood her ground for me and my son that he is 100% not going becasue she respects me for my decisions and my belief in Christ and the Word of God and her family lashed out at her because of it.  I pray one day God will show her that these things are all wrong but weve come a long way.   

Jeremiah 10
Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

[Laura]

Wow, Zach! It is good to hear other stories of how people have handled this issue with their families. Thanks for sharing. You are setting such a good example for your girlfriend and son, leading your family to do what is right. You have God and the truth on your side!

Vaccines are so scary! It breaks my heart when I hear stories of babies and children harmed by them. My sister-in-law is a nurse who avidly supports vaccines. Her son, my nephew, is three months older than my daughter. Last December, my parents told us my brother and sister-in-law did not want my daughter around him (he was 6 months old at the time) unless she was vaccinated. I was devastated to hear that, but it did not change my stance. My parents later told us they agreed the kids could be around each other after his 12 month shots. So for half a year we did not see them. It was definitely hard, but I was doing what I knew was right for my daughter. My mom also watches him three days a week, so during those six months I could not go over to their house if he was there. Obviously, it is easier to say no to toxic chemicals being injected into my baby vs. celebrating a holiday, but I need to use the same strength to stand firm in my belief.

You brought up a verse that I find very interesting. When I first started studying the origins of the holidays, this verse was thrown around a lot. I could not believe the Bible actually mentioned the pagan tradition of Christmas trees; however, upon closer examination of the context, I realized it was referring to statues. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if you read further it talks about the clothing of the statues.

Jeremiah‬ 10:7-10‬ KJV
7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.
10 But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

In this context, verse 5 makes more sense to me when it says:

They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I would like to hear what others on here think of this passage. We agree on the message behind it though, as both Christmas trees and statues are idols, which are an abomination to the Lord our God.

[Laura]

I forgot to mention, the part about cutting down a tree and decking it with silver and gold could refer to the wood they used to carve the statues and the silver and gold which covered the wood. I have not done research on how statues were constructed during that time to see if this fits in line, just opening up a discussion so we can analyze it.

[zachshrader]

Well the verse says clearly that its a tree thats cut out of the forest decked with silver and gold fastened down so that it doesnt move or fall over, is that not the exact same thing that we do (or used to do) for the christmas tree?  And then if you think about it, it basically is an idol so the next verses are easily still applied to the tree of christmas.  Afterall christmas is an age old tradition.  People decorate with fake silver and gold of course and they place besically a crown on top of it (the star, an angel) or whatever else people do,  then they place the presents under it which can almost be thought of as sacrifices or offerings to it before they bow down to the tree literally on their knees to open the presents before it.  So if thats not an idol, then idk.  i believe Jeremiah 10 is clear about being a christmas tree.

[Laura]

Zach,
You make many valid points regarding the traditions of Christmas trees and idol worship. I guess it just did not make sense to me why anyone would think a tree could speak. Here are a couple of other verses that discuss idols in a similar way.

Isaiah 40:18-20 KJV
18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? 19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains. 20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

Isaiah 41:7 KJV
7 So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith, and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying, It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved.

Isaiah 44:13-1713 KJV
13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house. 14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. 15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. 16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire: 17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.

Psalm 115:4-8 KJV
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. 5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not: 6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not: 7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat. 8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Psalm 135:15-17 KJV
15 The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. 16 They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; 17 They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

graven image (noun): a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.

I do not disagree that Christmas trees are idols, and since that is the message of the passage, perhaps I should not have even brought up this discussion. I do not want anyone to think I am trying to cause controversy. Based on the definition of a graven image, a tree and a statue both fit the description - an object used to worship a god. So whether a tree or a carved statue, both are abominations and we can agree on that!

[zachshrader]

So what exactly are we not agreeing on?  Do you want to continue celebrating christmas?

[Laura]

No, I do not want to continue celebrating Christmas, which was the whole point of my initial post. I agree that Jeremiah 10 is talking about idol worship, but my intrepretation is that it is describing a statue and not a Christmas tree. As you can see, this is something silly to be arguing about, because I agree that Christmas trees are idols. I apologize for taking the discussion to this point.