Introducing myself: Joop

[Joop]

Hello, I am Joop. I am from The Netherlands. I am 61 years old, married, living in Almere, near Amsterdam. My story is quit a history. I am a born again Christian since a long time. I was raised a R. Catholic, I always believed Jesus is the True and Only Way. When a was about 20 years old I left the Roman Catholic Church, which was a good decision. However I joined a Pentacostal (Full Gospel) Church, which was, as I see clearly now, a bad thing to do. I cannot really pinpoint a particular day I was born again. True repentance was hardly ever taught, at least not in the Catholic Church. Three years ago I left (had to leave) the pentacostal church I was in. I was in a Rafa

[Joop]

(continued)
Oops, I shouldn't have used some reading-signs.
I was in a Rafael-community for quite some time. Rafael is a pentecostal denomination, which is part of the Foursquare Church in the US. As I am a researcher for quite some time, I found out (by websites on the Internet and YT) that pentecostalism is a false movement. Yes, I considered myself a pentecostal Christian for decades, however I never was a vivid 'tongue speaker', I . I now believe God had called me out and I left Rafael three years ago. The reason I signed in as a member is that I miss real fellowship with true Christians. Today we are not going anywhere. I know this website Creation Liberty quite some time, maybe 5 of 6 years... To all: please feel free to ask me any question you like. (I Previewed my post first now...) God bless, Joop

[Jeanne]

Very nice to meet you, Joop! We have another lady here from the Netherlands, as well.

[strangersmind]

Hello nice to meet you joop. I have been to a Foursquare Church in usa. Glad you left. A church who has a Starbucks Coffee shop inside and let's the pastors gay son preaching is not a church who truly loves the Lord

[Masha]

Hallo Joop, I am the lady from the Netherlands:-) Glad you found this forum. I can surely relate to the lack of Biblical churches in our country (and the world) and the difficulty to find true born again christians. I have been through quite a journey since i got saved.  It is great to see a fellow Dutch man to arrive here. I hope the forum will help you to grow in the Lord. Moge de Heere je leiden in alles. (May the Lord lead you in everything.)
Masha

[Joop]

Hello again, thanks for your replies, Jeanne, strangersmind and Masha,
Yesterday I wrote a very little bit about myself. I would like to elaborate some more.
When I was about 20 years old I left the RC Church and joined a Full Gospel Church, which was pentecostal. It was a so called "Kracht van Omhoog"-fellowship (Power from on High). Now you have to understand, the pentecostal churches were, speaking about some forty years ago, nothing like the Hillsong Churches or the Bethel-Charismatic Churches nowadays. Well known people like "brother Andrew" (Gods Smuggler) and Corrie ten Boom (The Hiding Place) once wrote articles for the magazine "Kracht van Omhoog" on a regular basis. Lots of teachings were, I would say, orthodox. However, not all teaching....like speaking in tongues. I would say there were some really good born again Christians there. But born-again Christians can be misled too. At least one example I know of: Me. You see, especially when you are young, you are idealistic, want to change the whole world (bla bla..) etc. I thought I had it all. Well, that was, compared to the teachings and doctrines of the R.C. Church, partially true. Yes, I had to learn a lot. I still do....I read one motivation as to why join CLE: the need of receiving rebuke. Yes, we all need rebuke from time to time. And so do I. God bless you all, Joop

[anvilhauler]

Hi Joop

Welcome to the forum.  Good to read that you too have left the false churches behind and are moving on to a fuller maturity in Christ.

I have been to a Foursquare Church in usa. Glad you left. A church who has a Starbucks Coffee shop inside and let's the pastors gay son preaching is not a church who truly loves the Lord

Wow.  The depths of depravity they sink to in the church buildings.

[Kenneth Winslow]

Welcome to the forum Joop. I'm glad you are here.

[stevesams]

Welcome to the forum Joop!  Please post more about yourself so we can to know you better:)

[Joop]

Hello again, to all who replied, thank you! I like to tell you a bit more about myself. First, some more history. When I was about 20 I joined a full gospel / pentecostal church in the Netherlands. After about 4 years I left because I felt it was to rigid, legalistic. A bit faster forward: a few years later we joined another pentecostal church, a so called Rafael-church in Nieuwegein (near Utrecht). After moving to Almere we joined a Rafael church in Almere. As a pentecostal church they were/are generally quite moderate. Nothing like Hillsong or so today. There were hardly, if at all, any teachings about speaking in tongues and how to practise it. However. it was and is still PENTECOSTAL(!), as I see now. About 10 years ago, after doing a lot of studying about christianity myself, I gradually came to realize that speaking in tongues, as taught by pentecostalism, is in error. However, that didn't cause me to leave the church I was in. One sunday, things changed. In a sermon, which had as topic 'speaking in tongues' rather strange things were taught. The preacher claimed that speaking in tongues would generate wisdom and specific insights. Hey, that's not biblical at all, I thought. So I decided to write a letter to the preacher and some more people who had the responsibility on that sunday. I explained that unbiblical teachings are being taught and that the preacher was in error. I also added lots of motivation as to why the preacher was in error. Sadly, my letter was declined. Rejected, totally! So I decided that it was time to leave that church. I was quite hurt and very disappointed I was not taken seriously. You see, we have been in that church for about 20 years. Well, maybe Ecc 7:8 was applicable: Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof. More posts coming soon. God bless, Joop

[Joop]

Hello again, some more about me and what I had to learn. After more than 30 years a member of divers pentecostal churches I decided to leave the Rafael / Foursquare pentecostal church, after a preacher taught that if you speak in tongues, you would acquire wisdom and specific insights. The people responsible for that teachings would not listen to my objections. As I realise now, I have been in a sect, or a cult. I believe speaking in tongues to acquire wisdom is witchcraft. I never practised it myself, I never wast a fanatic tongue-speakter, yet I repented I ever was in the pentecostal movement and for such a long time. I have some friends who are still in the pentecostal movement, and try to convince them to reflect on 'speaking in tongues'. It is hard, as they would rather rely on some personal experiences rather than the Word of God. So I left pentecostalism, that was three years ago. We joined a small baptist church, it was an English speaking church, here in Almere. We were there for about 6 months. Some good things I found : the KJV bible was used, and women were not allowed to teach (1 Tim 2:11-14). However, they believed in the pre-trib rapture. I never did. Always was post-trib. I once discussed with a member of that church about the rapture. The pastor found out about it and forbid me to teach  the post-trib rapture. A week later he sent an email to the members of the church, warning against false teachings, especially the post-trip rapture doctrine. Sigh. So I decided this baptist church was not the place to be. After we left, I had a conversation with the pastor. We agreed to disagree and we could say good-bye without any hostility. So we are without any church for now. I am not too sad about that, on the other hand, I would like to have some fellowship with Christians who really follow the Lord, rather than some (crazy) traditions. I know, I have been part of a lot of silly traditions, still have to learn a lot...I guess, no, I'm SURE! God bless, Joop

[Jeanne]

So we are without any church for now. I am not too sad about that, on the other hand, I would like to have some fellowship with Christians who really follow the Lord, rather than some (crazy) traditions.

Well, you've certainly come to the right place! We're not perfect, but we all learn from each other. Looking forward to getting to know you better!

[Masha]

Hi Joop, I believe I went to the same Baptist church in Almere for a few years, and indeed they teach the pre trib. We left the church also. I won't go into any details, but it was not nice. We now visit a very small church, Onafhankelijke Baptisten Gemeente Filadelfia  that gathers on sunday 10.30 in a basisschool at the Thomas Aquinostraat 2 in Amsterdam Slotermeer. It is basically just us (family of 6) another family of 5 (from Almere) and the pastor, his wife, their son and two elders. So far have not found any false teachings from this pastor. We are so few that we are held accountable for everything we do/say, and that is good. I believe the CLE church is great, and I would be part of the Bible studies chat meetings, etc. if I could, but for my marriage sake I cannot. That being said, for me, meeting online or on Skype is not quite the same as being in the same room together and having the opportunity to walk up to someone for a conversation. I like human contact to be old fashion:-) face to face :-) so even if I would be able to join the meetings from CLE I would probably still try to find a remnant in my area to fellowship with and to learn from. I am happy we found this small group of people, and I enjoy hearing Gods Word and fellowship together.
I have been to pentacostal churches/pinkstergemeente too. I never got into the thing because of my wide experience with the occult. No way any of that comes from God! I saw that right away, yet it is very widespread. I even visited churches they didn't start acting funny until the 2 or 3 time I went... It is very wicked! I tried to tell so many of them so often, mostly the people are so addicted to the experience, they will not see the truth, even when it written so plainly!! (1Cor 14!!)
Looking forward to read more from you, Gods zegen,
Masha

[Joop]

Hi Masha, thanks for all the information you gave me about the baptist church in Amsterdam. At the moment I am very cautious joining a church again. However, I very much would like to see some Christians. I understand you are visiting that church? Questions that arise to me: What Bible versions are being used? Do they celebrate Christmas and Easter? I am maybe too critical and I know finding a perfect church would be an illusion (even I would find one, that church wouldn't be perfect anymore with me as a new member!). I checked the internet, but couldn't found any information, only that this church is a "rechtspersoon", ingeschreven in de KvK (sorry, hard to translate in English). It would seem to me that this church is part of some sort of the 501c3 tax-exempt law. I haven't checked how this would work for the Netherlands, but I assume, being a "rechtspersoon" you are part of a system in which you would jeapardize having free speech. The Baptist Church we were in was part of the Lighthouse Baptist Church. The pastor is Stan K, he is Canadian. We were there from August 2015 until March (or so) 2016. Gods zegen, en wie weet tot ziens! God bless, Joop

[Masha]

Hi Joop,
About the questions: They use the Statenvertaling. They do celebrate christmas I think,  but we do not. As in, they preach about it when it is the time, other than that, no decoration or that kind of things. We meet in a public school. We were not attending the church in december. I just recall they organising a lunch for easter, and we did not go.
They are post trib. And the website is down at the moment, they are working to get it back up. Officially they are  a stichting as they have a director, secretary, penningmeester. I do not know how it works legally, but I do not believe that government has any power to control what is being preached.
Indeed it was the Lighthouse Baptist Church with Stan. We were in that congregation at the same time. Maybe we have met?? I am Dutch, my husband is american and we have 4 children.
I understand the hesitation to join yet another church, and yes, there is no perfect church, but there are sincere born again Christians, even if not many, they are there:-)
Do not worry , if you do not ever visit, I will not be offended:-)
I gotta go now, may the Lord bless your day!
Masha

[anvilhauler]

Hi

I can't help see it that the best option for a church these days is to start your own if those already established aren't doing things correctly  ....   or only visit the church buildings in the hope of finding others who are truly born again and are eager to leave the leaven and find a Godly fellowship. 

One of the main reasons I am doing renovations to my home all of the time is in the hope that I can begin a gathering of believers meeting in my home here.  One of the stipulations for being a part of that gathering would be that those involved must be involved with the forum here so that it is far more likely that the wolves are filtered out and sound teaching prevails as it should.

I hope I get enough of the work on the house finished before the first believer comes along.  Judging by what I see and hear all of the time I do get the feeling that my only church experience will be here at CLE.  That scenario might likely be the case in any part of the world now.  I would rather have no face to face contact with people than face to face contact with false believers who are toxic.

[Christopher_Belflower]

Great Testimony Joop,

Praise God for uncovering false doctrines to you along the way! Welcome!

Chris

[davehenry]

Hiya Joop,really enjoyed your testimony.You've come to the right place here.I've learned alot in the shot time being part of the forum and am very grateful.I look forward to getting to know you.May the Lord Jesus Christ richly bless and guide you!

[Joop]

Hi there, some more about me. At first, a question for @Masha (I hoop she reads this). Masha, you mentioned a baptist church in Amsterdam. I checked their website, it was back online again, and checked their Statements of Faith, which you can read here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1COafffIKvdS3lENk9RbHhET2M/view. Sorry guys, it is in Dutch.
I understand they are pre-trib, not post-trib as you mentioned. I once joined a church which was pre-trib. I will never ever do that again as I am very strongly opposed against pre-trib and dispensationalism,i.e. Darbyism
I read in other posts about narcissism. To me that is a very interesting and hot topic. I will start this topic about narcissism in the General Discussion

[Dee Babbitt]

Welcome Joop

Good to have you here.  This is a good place to be, with like-minded Christians.

At first, I thought that I too would miss the "face to face" with other Christians (after 40 years of attending churches)...but it's been wonderful here.  I agree with Kevin, "I would rather have no face to face contact with people than face to face contact with false believers who are toxic."

I am thankful for the CLE church group, and for God giving Christopher the gift of writing informational and important topics.

Have a Beautiful Week!