Sermons and teachings on the internet

[Hakim Mohamad]

Hi everyone.
I would like to know how you guys handle information from the Internet. I know that Christopher is very careful or barely ever recommends any teachers on the internet on his YouTube or audio- teachings, but we all use information from the internet and have to use our discernment to filter off false doctrine. But sometimes we may be asked for information from someone who may be seeking the Lord but has not yet fully understood the concepts of sin, hell, grace, repentance and atonement or who does not know what it means that God is omnipresent, allmighty, allknowing, absolutely just, absolutely good, absolutely holy, absolutely merciful, absolutely unchangeing etc. And who has not fully understood that Jesus is God in the flesh and voluntarily gave his own life to save ours.
The Problem is that we often do not have the time and or knowledge to answer all the questions that someone might have who is trying to find the true living God.

So my questions is:
Is it wrong to recommend a book or a teaching or a Sermon, anything besides the Bible, that deals with a certain topic from a biblical viewpoint, even if I know or suspect that the author or the teacher himself may be in error in regards to other topics around the christian faith?

I don't mean that I would recommend any Material from a teacher whom I would consider to be a false convert, but I'm pretty sure that I haven't fully understood every aspect of my faith and that I could possibly involuntarily give someone false information out of ignorance. And there are some teachers that I would not agree with in every aspect but who I believe are genuine and who I believe got the most important aspects right.

After all I know that God can use anything to draw us towards himself. I can give you two extreme examples from my own testimony. Before I got saved, I already knew how messed up my life was. Being the son of a muslim, I though that I could become a practicing muslim, too in order to connect with God and get my life in order.
So I started researching, what Islam ist about. What I found was a lot of hatred against the jews and christians and being a curious and inquisitive person I got interested in what was the reason for all this hatred. That's why I started comparing Islamic and Christian views in different topics. So I started watching Videos and reading blogs and Forums  etc. At the same time I also started getting doubts about my materialistic worldview. I Had been into conspiracies for quite a while and after some time I had come to the conclusion that evil must be real and that the world was ruled by satanists, but I wondered who the good ones were. I also became aware that the supernatural had to be real because I saw tons of things that had been shown live on air that defied the laws of physics.
One evening in 2013 I was watching a teaching about angels by a seventh day adventist. It was at that particular teaching that I learned the following things:
1. The wages of sin ist death and hell. (I already knew that I was a sinner. Maybe I Had an advantage there :-)  )
2. No amount of good deeds can make sins undone.
3. No man can escape hell by his own efforts, so we need a Savior. (I certainly did!)
4. Jesus the Son of God died for our sins. (I Had Heard that already and I couldn't figure out why or how)
5. He payed the price with His life on our behalf! (That's where IT Struck my mind!)
6. It was not a cruel God slaying his Son for a bunch of bad people against His will, but Jesus Made that decision and voluntarily gave his life to save us from the inevitable and eternal punishment in hell! (Second Strike! From this moment on I knew that If there was any chance for me, it could only be through the blood of Jesus.)

Of course today I know for sure that the SDA are a cult and that they are teaching a Son of God that is not himself God, but a created being, and a grace that is not entirely grace but dependant on works, but at that moment I had found the Essential pieces of the puzzle in a teaching that was obviously made to mislead people from the truth.

Of course I would never recommend any one to watch a teaching from  the SDA but at that time in my life it was the exact Thing that I needed to hear.

After that I spent quite some time to try and find the real Christians. I was unsere about the SDAs because I had seen pictures of Ellen G White posing with a bunch of Freemasons, posing with the gesture of the hidden hand. Also her grave has an obelisk in top, an Egyptian Phallus... Thanks to God that He gave me an open mind and helped me discern and compare all the teachings with the little snippetts of the few books of the Bible that I had read and that popped Up in my mind whenever I tried to discern wether a doctrine was true or false.

To make a long story short, after several months I found a good and very small congregation in my former town where I was living that I visited for maybe 2 months. But when I was asked why I didn't give my life over to Jesus, I got scared and ran.
After that I fell back deep into sin for more than a year but I became really disgusted of myself at the same time.
Then a Fee months later, after 8 years in University where I only learned how to waste time, get drunk and fornicate (yayyy! Free education ftw), I finally decided that something had to change and I started looking for an aprenticeship as an IT salesman.
By the Grace of God I found one in Frankfurt. God removed me from my old Environment, took away my old frenemies, broke me down to the Point where I could finally find repentance, instead of self-pity, placed me in a congregation with other people who truly Love Jesus and helped me finish my 3 years of apprenticeship.

So to come back to my questions: Is it worth it, not to recommend a teaching because of some inaccuracies and flaws that the teacher may be teaching in some other teachings? I mean there are people who clearly intentionally mislead others, but If some teacher Had some minor random mistakes in some of his teachings, should we therefore Not recommend them at all?

I'm curious how you guys think about the topic.

[Jeanne]

I've never seen anyone other than Christopher who spends as much time researching and documenting his sources in the teachings he gives. Other people just say things and expect you to believe it. I'm not saying he's the only person you should trust, as NO man is perfect and you should test everything ANYONE tells you in any case.

The trouble nearly all mainstream preachers or those who have 'teaching' websites is that they're all leavened. They teach false doctrine and have no interest in hearing the truth. The best way to tell this is if you see something that they are teaching in error and point it out to them, see what kind of response you get. For the most part, they'll either ignore you or just flat out tell you you're wrong and dismiss your concerns. I have challenged Chris a number of times on things I disagreed with and he has always taken the time to research the issue again to see if he made a mistake. He's usually right, but at least he's willing to admit the POSSIBILITY that he might be wrong. I've never run across that with anyone else. If you ever do, please let us know.

Brian Moonan has a lot of good teachings on YouTube and on his podcast. He doesn't get everything right, either, however. He still uses the cross symbol in his logo and on the merchandise he sells and I don't think he has a good grasp on the meaning of 'repentance'. I do, however, believe that he is truly born again and does the best he can to teach what is right.

But, if you KNOW someone is teaching errors, why would you recommend any of their material to someone else in the first place? Non-Christians and new believers can be so easy to deceive. If you recommend a teaching you think to be right in one area but is wrong in others, these new people are likely to think/believe that you agree with EVERYTHING they say and even if you don't, THEY might start trusting this person.

The best place to go for teaching someone or answering questions is the Bible itself. If you recommend reading that, you can't go wrong.

[Hakim Mohamad]

I agree that I haven't seen anyone going through the topics of his teachings and the related scriptures in such detail as Christopher does. He is indeed very careful in giving a source dir every piece of information that He shares and that ist what I love about his ministry. But therein lies the whole Problem. I know that this is a level of knowledge, understanding and discipline that I will probably never achieve and I truly don't know anybody living in this day and age who did.
Don't get me wrong, I don't Trust that Christopher gets everything right. I don't even Trust myself, but I recognize that he knows his Bible extremely well and that his argumentation plays in a totally different league in regards to logic and clarity than mine or anyone elses I know.
But If we Had to rely on people of such brilliant in order to teach, then the uttmost people would never encounter someone who could teach them the gospel.
In a perfect world, every Christian could Quote you every single verse from every single book and teach every healthy doctrine flawlessly. In such a World Adam and Eve probably wouldn't have eaten that fruit and WE would all best happily Gardeninger the Garden of Eden together, but we do not live in a perfect world. Even christians are subject to the weaknesses of the flesh and there is a shortage of these ultrabright teachers.
Instead we have a bunch of imperfect sinners. Sometimes
we are lazy, sometimes we become prideful, sometimes we become fearful or disobedient etc. (And I'm Not talking about the unrepentant false converts). Often our father has to chastize us so that we return to his path because there is another law in our members of flesh than in our born again spirit. If the key to salvation was perfection, we would all fall short.
Yet I'm telling you that I'm Feeling convicted in some way because I have recommend some preachings from Charles Lawson in social Media.
I do believe that Lawson als far as I can see is a genuine believer. Yet I see that he has some leaven. He has a somewhat unclear View of repentance. He says that it means to confess and turn. Yet as I understand it, he says that it results from God giving you the grief and sorrow about your wicked deeds. So it could bei that He Just mixed up the terms repentance and conversion.
Lawson ist also into conspiracies, which I can very well  relate to, but unfortunately he does not always check the sources very well, but these imho are not topics that are relevant for salvation and that ist also what he says about it, when he talks about such things.
He preaches a lot about hell and in the loud and oldfashioned was but I'm Not quite sure If he got it all 100 percent correct when He describes hell or hades or the lake of fire.
Probably the two most problematic things about Charles Lawson are that He believes the testimony of people who claim to have had near-death experiences in hell, and that he is pre-trib.
The reason why I recommended his preachings was because his sermons could really sometimes convict me and sometimes give me comfort, yet I know that I have to take them with a grain of salt because of said problems.

So I see some inaccuracies in Lawson's preaches, yet I don't see that he is leading people to hell with his teachings. He preaches grief and godly sorrow. He preaches Jesus Christ ist the only way. He preaches that works are the result of grace. He preaches that Jesus died for all people and that his sacrifice ist difficult for all people. I think He even preaches that predestination and free will are both biblical.
I must admit that He has some doctrine that I'm Not quite sure about and some that I disagree with, but These are afaik not the core doctrine that are relevant for salvation.
After all we are not being saved because we know wether we get raptured before the seven years or in the midst of them or at the end.

Oh, and I agree. It ist never wrong to recommend the Bible, but sometimes people need something more condensed that can wake them Up and that still gives them a clue on what the gospel really is about, so that they can see that the Bible ist worth reading.

[Timothy]

Why recommend a preacher you know has leaven to someone that doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them to discern the leaven? Wouldn't that be setting them up in Satan's trap and confuse them?

[creationliberty]

Why recommend a preacher you know has leaven to someone that doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them to discern the leaven? Wouldn't that be setting them up in Satan's trap and confuse them?

+1

[Jeanne]

Hakim, Chris will be the first person to tell you that he is NOT brilliant or intelligent, or whatever. He is very simple-minded and sometimes quite gullible. What he DOES have is the Holy Spirit to teach, guide, and direct him to the truths of the Bible. And that is something that everyone who is truly born again has, too.

You're right in that not all of us have the time or the patience to do the level of research and study that Chris does, but that's why Chris does what he does and makes all of his material free for use and distribution. He's not in it for the money like almost every other preacher out there is. His work is not copyrighted, so anyone can use it.

If you want to direct someone to a third party, direct them to Chris. Otherwise, pray for the Holy Spirit to give you the wisdom to direct you to the relevant Scripture to teach them.

[anvilhauler]

After all we are not being saved because we know wether we get raptured before the seven years or in the midst of them or at the end.

Hi Hakim

   What seven years would that be?  The scriptures only mention 3 1/2 years (or rather 42 months or 1260 days)

Revelation 11 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 13 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

For anyone asking questions and who really want to know then I still think the gospel according to John is the best place for them to start and then the rest of the gospels and Acts.  If they aren't interested in reading those and absorbing them then they are likely only to become a "church goer" and will treat church as a social club or some kind of community centre where they can just catch up with their friends they have made but sound scripture and teaching won't be a part of it.

[Masha]

I would refer to mere Scriptures from the KJV Bible. Chris is a great teacher, and I do find some others on the internet too. But I can only dicern that because I have read my Bible for years. Anyone who is saved and has no knowledge from the Scriptures should start there and not go on without having a strong foundation in Gods Word, to be able to test the spirit. Gods word is the lamp, not any man. Gods Word is Truth, and any man has troubled glasses which he/she looks through.
I think it is vital for any Christian to know the scriptures and to test everything to Gods word. I don't think I would have made it through my journey in the wicked so called christian world without it! Seriously!

[Hakim Mohamad]

Hakim, Chris will be the first person to tell you that he is NOT brilliant or intelligent, or whatever. He is very simple-minded and sometimes quite gullible. What he DOES have is the Holy Spirit to teach, guide, and direct him to the truths of the Bible. And that is something that everyone who is truly born again has, too.

I agree that every born again believer has the Spirit of God and that the Spirit of God leads us in our understand of the truth. Yet over time as we progress in our walk with God we sometimes realized that we have been in error in one or another aspect of our biblical understanding.
If that happened would I have to go back and review every word that I ever said, or the spirit of God ist not in me? Which would technically mean that I would be a false convert or am I getting this wrong?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that the Work, Christopher does is very important. Yet the problem I see is that you need to know very specifically what kind of information you are looking for. You need to have very specific questions. Otherwiese you will barely ever stumble over one of his teachings.

But do we need to know These Things in such great detail and acuracy in order to get saved?

You say there ist almost nobody who has No leaven, and I agree. And I would also agree to warn people from the Anderson types of preaches and the Olsteens and Copelands and yes, even from the MC Arthurs.

Yet you mentioned Brian Moonan. I know His Channel on YT and I do not like the direction it went, from exposing false teachers to selling merchandise. Yet Christopher gave something like a semi-recommendation for his Radio-Show, which I until recently didn't know existed.

I believe that the one-pastor church system ist unbiblical, and in my congregation there are only elders who have their normal Jobs outside the congregation. But If a congregation has a pastor who can give you a half decent explanation on what is sin and how to get saved, who recommends to Not believe every word that he says but instead reminds people to read the Bible for themselves and doublecheck everything he says by comparing it to the Bible, and who ist not in on it to get rich, but uses his position to spread the Gospel, in my opinion that should be enough for anyone who truly ist seeking the Lord to get saved.
Like you I believe that the holy Spirit ist in every believer, but I think that the Holy Spirit can move your Attention to the things that are important, even If you are not yet Born again. Otherwiese probably noone of us could have been saved in the First place.

I know where I came from. I had nobody witnessing to me in person. I only had information that was full of error but I realized that you can trust the Bible because it gives an acurate description of the state of the world and of man. So why would I trust any man at all, other than the God-Man Jesus Christ?
If a preacher ist honest enough to admit that He is not the authority but the Bible is, and he knows and teachers why you need a Savior and how you get saved, and some preachers do, then I believe that it is sufficient to get people saved, even If they might get some Details wrong. We cannot all be Pauls and Barnabasses.
Most people start with the information that is Most available and from there have to filter Out the bad stuff. Of course that will only Work If they questions everything and study die themselves, but you can be Fed with the best information and the soundest of doctrine all life long, you still will have to questions and test it, or you can not know that it is the truth.

[Hakim Mohamad]

In addition I would like to point out that I believe that the purpose of a sermon ist not to give perfect understanding of a matter but rather to give the listener impulses, to Point into a certain direction or to highlight certain aspects and give him the scriptures where He can find answers to his own questions.
Maybe it makes Sense to distinguish between a sermon and a teaching that deals with a topic more specifically and in more detail.

[anvilhauler]

The discussion highlights the importance of being able to come together and discuss Biblical doctrines etc.  Even Paul's letters were written to the church at this place and that place and were not written to a heavy handed, overbearing and dishonest "pastor" who would dictate to and manipulate a church gathering.

Hence full participation of all of those involved and each reading the letters for themselves or at least read to the gathering by someone who has proven themselves to be trustworthy (i.e. an elder who is worthy of having such a position bestowed upon them).

[Hakim Mohamad]

I can't remember that I defended the - let's say 'profession' of a Pastor. I actually agree that it is not biblical. And I also agree that the whole Bible has been given to all believes and Not only to those who have some kind of office in a church building.
I don't Dispute that these Things are leaven. But is someone a false convert simply because he is the 'Pastor' of a local congregation? If so then please explain to me, how you know for sure.
And please also consider my Former Point that the Key to salvation ist Not to listen to the perfect teaching or preaching but to come and seek God with a repent heart i.e. grief and godly sorrow over your wrong doing, and with the genuine willingness to really find the truth and to Test and questions it until you have absolute certainty.

[anvilhauler]

I'm certainly in agreement with you.  I never took it anywhere that you defended the title of "pastor".

But is someone a false convert simply because he is the 'Pastor' of a local congregation? If so then please explain to me, how you know for sure.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are a false convert, but it should be something they deal with and certainly the elders should stamp on people using the title of "pastor".  Usually it is those who are considered or appointed to be the "elder" that take on the title for themselves of "pastor".  But Biblically the role of pastoring is for anyone in the congregation who feels drawn to encourage and bring to fuller maturity others in the congregation who need that extra assistance.

Hence

Ephesians 4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: ...

But all of the above should be done under the watchful eyes of the elders to make sure that correct doctrines are being imparted.


1 Peter 4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. 8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. 9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

In the congregation people are supposed to be ministers one to another.

And please also consider my Former Point that the Key to salvation ist Not to listen to the perfect teaching or preaching but to come and seek God with a repent heart i.e. grief and godly sorrow over your wrong doing, and with the genuine willingness to really find the truth and to Test and questions it until you have absolute certainty.

Yes, none of us know the whole picture and are still learning and that includes the elders.  That's the difference here in CLE, the elders admit quite rightly that they are still learning too and are approachable and are prepared to enter in to doctrinal discussions etc.  Here at CLE the elders will quite rightly comment that "I think you are wrong    .....   and here is the reason why ...  ". And they give a sound reason.  I have never seen that happen in the church buildings and I have realised over the last couple of years that here at CLE is the first time I have ever been around true Christians in the last 32 years.

Quite righly if disputes with the elders can not be resolved then it is time to leave that congregation.  Either the elders are wrong and not worthy to be considered elders or the individual is wrong and is quite rightly ejected from the congregation because of the damage they can cause.

We can easily take it for granted today that we have access to the Bible.  I have often pondered how I would have got on if I was living in, lets say the 8th century. 

[creationliberty]

Quite righly if disputes with the elders can not be resolved then it is time to leave that congregation.  Either the elders are wrong and not worthy to be considered elders or the individual is wrong and is quite rightly ejected from the congregation because of the damage they can cause.

+1

[Timothy]

I agree that every born again believer has the Spirit of God and that the Spirit of God leads us in our understand of the truth. Yet over time as we progress in our walk with God we sometimes realized that we have been in error in one or another aspect of our biblical understanding.
If that happened would I have to go back and review every word that I ever said, or the spirit of God ist not in me? Which would technically mean that I would be a false convert or am I getting this wrong?

You're blowing what was said way out of proportion. If we never make mistakes, then what point is there for the Holy Spirit to teach us? I don't understand where you got that idea from what people here were saying.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that the Work, Christopher does is very important. Yet the problem I see is that you need to know very specifically what kind of information you are looking for. You need to have very specific questions. Otherwiese you will barely ever stumble over one of his teachings.

But do we need to know These Things in such great detail and acuracy in order to get saved?

Who here claimed that anyone is not saved unless they have some degree of understanding of some number of doctrines?

But If a congregation has a pastor who can give you a half decent explanation on what is sin and how to get saved, who recommends to Not believe every word that he says but instead reminds people to read the Bible for themselves and doublecheck everything he says by comparing it to the Bible, and who ist not in on it to get rich, but uses his position to spread the Gospel, in my opinion that should be enough for anyone who truly ist seeking the Lord to get saved.

So when the answer given to you is to recommend the Bible, why is it you seek to justify recommending leavened preachers instead, who, even themselves recommend the Bible? That is contradictory and hypocritical to what you are trying to justify.

If a preacher ist honest enough to admit that He is not the authority but the Bible is, and he knows and teachers why you need a Savior and how you get saved, and some preachers do, then I believe that it is sufficient to get people saved, even If they might get some Details wrong. We cannot all be Pauls and Barnabasses.

Is it wrong to recommend a book or a teaching or a Sermon, anything besides the Bible...

Again, if even the leavened preacher says 'Go to the Bible' why is it you don't seem to like the answer given to you to 'Go to the Bible'? And it's contradictory to your original question of recommending material/teachers other than the Bible when they turn around and recommend the Bible. You're making an issue out of something that shouldn't even be an issue because the simple answer according to the Bible is to purge out the leaven.

1 Corinthians 5:7 - Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Also, your initial question was what we thought about recommending leavened preachers when it came to doctrine, but now you're making it an issue of sharing the gospel through those leavened preachers. If you claim to have convictions about doing that, why not go to the Bible and give them the clear gospel yourself? And if you are part of a un-leavened church, why not recommend them there after they get saved? Then this issue would be non-existent. Easy-squeezy

[creationliberty]

+1's to all that Tim just said. Sorry I'm not commenting much, but it's a long thread and you all are saving me time. I would have given similar, if not the exact same, responses you all have given.

[Hakim Mohamad]

This is Not about witnessing to people I know, but I do comment on YouTube Videos or on Minds.com and sometimes Conversations with other Users build Up.

In these conversations I try to share the Gospel as good as I can and I also try to answer questions or deal with their objections. But that is very timeconsuming and therefore I try to give them links to a sermon or a teaching that deals with their specific questions.

I also do recommend them to read the Bible or usually I give them certain books or chapters from it, but the Bible can be intimidating to Most people and therefore I want them to get at least some of the biblical concepts, so they might See that it is actually worth the time to start reading this huge book.

I absolutely want them to read the Bible, but I know what I myself was like when I was an unbeliever. I needed the right hints  to point me there. Had I not found these, I wouldn't have picked up a Bible myself.

Of course If I'm talking to someone in Person and I geht the Chance, I try to explain the Gospel myself and also invite people to my congregation.

Also in our congregation we have a booktable where we go to to the marketplace and to streetfestivals in our area to have conversations and give away Bibles and evangelistic books for free.
I have read some of the booklets and a lot of them are sound, but I must admit that in some I've seen references to doctrines that would not be taught in our congregation  or mentions and quotes of people like John MacArthur or even Billy Graham.

Especially some of the Testimony Books have these references but I have only talked to one or two Brothers about it and they we're not particular involved with the booktable and I must admit that I didn't continue to address the matter, neither did they.
Those who used to organize the booktable, an elderly couple will now discontinue it because of health issues, but they did it voluntarily besides their Jobs and I guess they we're unable to properly review all the different  books. I give them the benefit of the doubt because Most books I read we're OK, as far as I could tell.
The whole thing will have to get reorganized anyway, but If we find someone who has the time to continue the booktable, we should definitely form a group to review the books and dort some of them out.

[Hakim Mohamad]

And by the way, when I'm having conversations in comment sections, I do often recommend Christopher's videos, (not that that mattered) but there are also other videos that I post the links to. Like for example some of Charles Lawson's sermons. If you want, I can give you an example of a Sermon that I particularly liked very much.
I'm Not even trying to defend that any more, I'm just trying to explain what I do.

[creationliberty]

I appreciate you sharing those. Every now and again, I get angry letters from some of the people who are looking at the videos you share, so I appreciate that. They get angry because they're convicted about what they're hearing and reading, but they're rejecting the repentance that will lead them to the foot of the cross.

[Hakim Mohamad]

Yeah, I saw the wild e-mail sections in the Forum and I think you have something similar on your Blog :-)