Pleasantries Are More Important to Him Than Truth

[creationliberty]

I will reply to this thread with an analysis of this email.
CHAD FROM COLORADO:
Hello Christopher, my name is Chad. I am not a Christian but I’m interested in learning about the bible and finding out whether Christianity is true. My friend Mckenna Peay sent me a link to your article titled “Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell” and we had a discussion about it recently in which she suggested I send you my questions, so that’s why I’m writing this email. My first question has to do with something you said in your article about repentance:

“That leaves us with a new question: What is the gospel (i.e. doctrine/teaching) of "repentance and remission of sins?" Before drawing any conclusions, let's define those terms:
repentance (n): sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct
remission (n): forgiveness, pardon
(See 'repentance' & 'remission', American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828, retrieved June 7, 2019, [webstersdictionary1828.com])
There are many who have "believed on Jesus," but few who have ever come to repentance and believed, meaning that they never had grief and godly sorrow of their sin. Sadly, most churchgoers have been taught that 'repent' means "to turn" or "to change one's mind," which is not only false, but dangerous because it teaches people that "to turn and/or change" is required for salvation, which is the false doctrine of works unto salvation, and therefore, such false teaching leads them away from salvation.”

I have no doubt that the definition of repentance you provided accurately reflects how the word is used in common parlance as well as in the New Testament. But here’s my question. If you were an ancient Israelite living prior to the New Testament, and if you were basing your concept of repentance strictly off what is written in the Hebrew scriptures, would you still say that repentance doesn’t entail turning away from sin?

I'm somewhat new to studying the bible and I have a lot to learn, but I want to share some verses that inform my understanding of what repentance meant within the historical context in which the Hebrew bible was written.

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. (Ezekiel 18:30)

Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; 48 And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, 50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them: (1 Kings 8:47-50)

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. (Ezekiel 18:21-22)

Son of man, say to the Israelites, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of them. How then can we live?” ’ Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel? (Ezekiel 33:10-11)

Perhaps when the people of Judah hear about every disaster I plan to inflict on them, they will each turn from their wicked ways; then I will forgive their wickedness and their sin. (Jeremiah 36:3)

Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. (Isaiah 55:6-7)

This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh: “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.” When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. (Jonah 3:7-10)
I have no doubt that the definition of repentance you provided accurately reflects how the word is used in common parlance as well as in the New Testament. But here’s my question. If you were an ancient Israelite living prior to the New Testament, and if you were basing your concept of repentance strictly off what is written in the Hebrew scriptures, would you still say that repentance doesn’t entail turning away from sin?
Let's not beat around the bush. My first question is: Why do you care? It doesn't matter. Curiosity is not going to save you. Becoming a Christian is not deciding one day that you're going to do it, or that window shopping will somehow bring you an interest in it.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
-John 3:3

You have to see your own corrupt state, and I cannot show you that. I can see it by your letter; right now, you are just lukewarm, sitting back on the sidelines, casually observing some things like you're sipping tea on a cool summer day. You are not acknowledging your sin, and therefore, you're not acknowledging your corrupt and wretched state either.
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
-Rev 3:15-17
It's very difficult for your friend to teach you these things when (in conversation with our church) she would not acknowledge them either. I don't know why she presumes that she can lead you to Christ when she's rejected her own wrongdoings, and has no interest in acknowledging them. If you are not going to listen to Jesus Christ (who is speaking in Rev 3) in what he's warning you of, I have no idea why you think I can help you. I can't create a special recipe of words that will suddenly unlock your understanding, and the Bible tells us why that is:
But the natural man (i.e. one who is not of Christ, as you admitted) receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14

It's not that your question is not answerable, it certainly is, but I'm not going to waste my time doing so when I have already answered that question in the book I wrote, and answered it in even more detail here:
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php

I'm somewhat new to studying the bible and I have a lot to learn, but I want to share some verses that inform my understanding of what repentance meant within the historical context in which the Hebrew bible was written.
1) I've already answered these in my book and article. You are not asking about, or arguing, anything that I have not already addressed. If you won't listen to me in my writing, you're not going to listen to me in email.
2) You admittedly are "new" to reading the Bible, but think you need to "share" these verses with me, as if I was not aware of them. Hmm.
3) Keyword searching is not a Bible study, so I doubt you understand the context of the verses you're sharing with me.
4) You're using new-age bible versions, and that's going to corrupt your understanding even further, although you're likely unaware of that yet.

It's pretty clear, based on your letter, that you were interested in reading my response, but not to the extent that you wanted to be convinced of anything. You've already made up your mind, and your letter made that VERY clear. You've obviously rejected what I have taught, and that's fine, but there's nothing more I can do. If you want to discuss the Gospel of Salvation, let me know. (See the verse in my signature.)
I hope you have a great day.
--
"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:
but the sorrow of the world worketh death." -2 Corinthians 7:10
“My first question is: Why do you care?”

I care because it’s relevant to the question of whether the New Testament is God breathed. If the Hebrew bible is the word of God, and if the New Testament concept of repentance is different from that previously revealed word of God, then I would think that any reasonable, critically thinking person should at least take these types of discrepancies into consideration before committing themselves to the belief that Christianity is true.

_______
“It doesn't matter.”

That’s what a mormon Bishop once told me when I asked him about the doctrinal difference between LDS scripture and the New Testament. You kind of remind me of him, except he was a lot more pleasant to talk to.

_______
“Curiosity is not going to save you.”

Never said or implied that it would. But you know what might save me from being duped into a false religion? Critically examining it before jumping to the conclusion that it’s true. If you think that I should stop asking questions and investigating whether Christianity is true then why don’t you quit “beating around the bush” and just say so.

_______
“Becoming a Christian is not deciding one day that you're going to do it, or that window shopping will somehow bring you an interest in it.”

Investigating whether a belief set is likely true or false is not the same thing as “window shopping” or just spontaneously deciding one day to adopt that set of beliefs.

_______
“You have to see your own corrupt state, and I cannot show you that.”

Maybe you’re right about that or maybe I see my corrupt state exactly as it is. Either way, the fact remains that plenty of people who aren’t christians recognize their own corrupt state. It doesn't logically follow from the fact that someone is in a corrupt state that therefore Jesus died for our sins and the NT is the word of god. You’re just trying to shift the topic of discussion away from the bible and onto my character so I’m starting to feel like it’s a waste of time talking to you.

_______
“I can see it by your letter; right now, you are just lukewarm, sitting back on the sidelines, casually observing some things like you're sipping tea on a cool summer day.”

Yeah I’m one of those crazy people who likes to do that.

_______
“It's very difficult for your friend to teach you these things when (in conversation with our church) she would not acknowledge them either. I don't know why she presumes that she can lead you to Christ when she's rejected her own wrongdoings, and has no interest in acknowledging them.”

That's a shame you would say that. She spoke very highly of you and from our discussions she seemed to think that basically everything on your website is true. Frankly I hope she has nothing more to do with you because you seem like you have the makings of a cult leader. You’ve deluded yourself into thinking that everyone who doesn’t believe everything you believe is under the rule of the devil and doesn’t really care about the truth, so when someone comes to you with a genuine question about the bible you assume the worst of them. Normal people don't behave the way you behave, but of course that's the whole point isn't it. Us non-religious fanatics are the 99% of the population that is going to suffer unimaginable agony for all eternity. If only your early 90's Heaven's Gate style website could penetrate the hearts of us cool summer day tea sippers.

_______
“It's not that your question is not answerable, it certainly is, but I'm not going to waste my time doing so when I have already answered that question in the book I wrote, and answered it in even more detail here:"

Oh trust me I lost interest in what you have to say long before this point. In fact I see no purpose in reading your email any further. Of all the Christians I've ever spoken to, you're easily in the top 5 for most obnoxious, presumptuous and arrogant. Don't bother emailing back because I'm not going to bother reading it.
I'm still going to email you back anyway. Whether you read it or not is up to you, but you've proved my point. You really don't have any interest in listening to what I'm saying, and that's exactly why I knew this was going to be a waste of time. However, your second letter was MUCH more interesting to me because now your real heart's coming out, and that's what I was looking for--someone who wasn't going to beat around the bush and just get straight to the heart of the matter.
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18

I could tell that your first letter was very... how do I phrase this? Pomp and circumstance. I think that's accurate. As if you were approaching a pope. I am no such person, and I would rather someone be direct with me, and in your second letter, you did that, so thanks for that, I appreciate it.

So what you said about going to the Mormon bishop; that's my point. You've been window shopping, as if you're just trying to find a church building or religion that's "right for you." That means your anger is really coming from the fact that everything I said to you was correct, wasn't it? Don't worry about calling me a cultist, I get that just about every week from somebody, so I've been used to that for a long time now. By the way, they called Jesus Christ and His apostles cultists too, did you know that? (I could show the Scripture, but I know you're not interested.) And Christ and His apostles said some things FAR more harsh than what I said to you, so if you cannot handle my letter, how do you think you're going to handle Scripture?
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
-Gal 4:16

Most people absolutely hate it when you call them out on this stuff. I'm just cutting through the fat to get to the core issue, and as I suspected, you hated it. And whether you want to believe or not, your friend hated it too. Her salvation is not dependent on whether or not she agrees with me; it's whether or not she agrees with the Word of God, and has understanding of it. If agreement with me were really the issue, and I were really the cutlist you claim that I am, then I would welcome her in with open arms because I would just be looking for more people to join the cult and bring in more donors. (That's what cultists are really after.) I don't want popularity or money. The fact is that she refused to acknowledge her own sin. It got so bad, we banned her from the forum. She pleaded with us, and we let her back in, but it got so bad the second time, we had to ban her a second time.

The main issue here is that I went STRAIGHT to the source of the problem with you, and that's the fact that you reject repentance and remission of sins. You would rather turn it into a work because, after all, you're doing a lot of study, meaning that you're putting in the work. You want the works, and the thoughts of your own mind, to become the crux of salvation for you, and it absolutely will NEVER become that. Jesus Christ guaranteed it, as you learned from my Why Millions book if you read it carefully.

Like I said in the first letter, if you ever want to discuss the Gospel of Salvation, let me know. Until then, if you want to know a bunch of other things, I have books and articles for that, free-to-read, on the website.

Have a great day, and I pray the Lord God shows you as much mercy as He has been loving enough to show me.
END OF DISCUSSION

[creationliberty]

I know there will be some readers who think I was too hard on him from the start, but if you think that, you need read his first letter VERY slowly.

The first thing he did was come forward and casually say that he was not a Christian. You'll notice that in most of these letters, people who are not of Christ at least try to stand on some pretense to claim that they are, and they do so because they, at the very least, have a little understanding of the dangerous situation that mankind is in, meaning that Jesus Christ is the only ticket to heaven. In this instance, however, we have a man who casually sits back, as I said, like he's lounging in a hammock on a cool summer day sipping his tea, and saying, "I'm not a Christian, but I have a few questions for you." The arrogance in that first paragraph was OVERWHELMING to me, but I'm certain he thought he covered it up very well with his pleasantries.

This is a man who has NO understanding of his own sin, and likewise, is not really concerned about heaven or hell. Therefore, his "interest in learning about the bible" will only last until he gets bored, and at some point, there will be one of two paths he will likely take; he will either go to the church-ianity path to gain the pleasantries and acceptance he's really looking for (perhaps even joining the upper-management so he can gain the benefits), or he will reject the whole thing, and go on to some other religious entity (which could include atheism) while claiming he's an "expert" on the Bible because he did some keyword searches and read a few books about it.

Oh, and by the way, some of you might be wondering how I know that. It's because I'm not the one who made that prediction:
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
-Mat 13:19-22

Some of you might have noticed that he claimed he was in agreement with me about the definition of repentance. By the time I finished his letter, I knew that wasn't true. He didn't really believe it because the entire purpose of his letter was to question it, and challenge it, which is why he did a keyword search and copy/pasted all those verses; verses which I have covered in the Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell book and my article on repentance.

In fact, I went to the original Biblical definitions of 'repent' in the Bible, but that still was not enough for him because on the one hand, he claimed that the definitions I provided "accurately reflects how the word is used in common parlance as well as in the New Testament," and there are two problems with that. The first is that most people, including most churchgoers, do NOT use the word 'repent' in that way because they think it means "to turn" or "to change," to the teaching of a lot of false preachers. The second problem is that he only believes that repentance (i.e. godly sorrow of wrongdoing) was used that way in the NEW Testament, but not in the Old Testament, which, by the way, would destroy its meaning in the New Testament because the New Testament is the culmination of the Old Testament law and prophets, and if God changed its meaning from one dispensation to another, it would make Him a liar and hypocrite in a lot of ways, but I don't think for a second that Chad cared about discussing any of that, and it would have been fruitless.

Therefore, it was easy to see that he was trying to challenge what I was saying in my book, and deceiving with a pathetic attempt at some pleasantries to cover that fact. It is very difficult for me to tolerate people who stand on pretense, and most of you know that about me. Tolerating the pretense doesn't help anyone spiritually.

Read again what he said at the end:
I'm somewhat new to studying the bible and I have a lot to learn, but I want to share some verses that inform my understanding of what repentance meant within the historical context in which the Hebrew bible was written.

Okay, so he's new to studying the Bible, but the question is WHY he's studying it. He's not a Christian, and it is pretty clear from his letters that he is not really interested in that side of it, but is just "studying it." For what? Like casually reading a fiction novel? Like he's trying to get a degree in religious studies? This is not like the Ethiopian that Philip helped because the Ethiopian was studying because God put in him a desire God and know the truth; that's not what we're dealing with here.

Notice, he didn't just say that he was quoting verses that he had questions about, he said these verses were "within the historical context in which the Hebrew bible was written." For someone who is "new" to studying Scripture, he certainly acts like he's got it all figured out, even though it was clear that he doesn't understand the context of these passages. (Even the way he structured them, it was clear as day he was just keyword searching and not looking to understand them.) The pride and arrogance was deafening to me when I got done reading this first letter, and so I was not going to pat his head and try to make him feel better about himself, because it was clear that he already has a great opinion of his own character, even stepping in to act like he was rescuing is "friend" like he was some kind of hero rescuing her from me, the nasty villain, and that gave me a hint that I think I know the real reason why he's hanging out with McKenna.

I wanted to share this letter because I want Christians, especially newer Christians, to understand that you have to read/listen to people carefully, because if they are doing everything they can to deceive themselves, you can be sure they're working twice as hard to deceive you.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
-Rom 1:21-22