New Member- Returned from Banning

[mpeay7]

Hello forum!

Since my last introductory post, I have made significant changes to my life!
Last time, before I was banned, I introduced myself as someone engaged in "Deliverance Ministry" and I described repentance as "Turning Away". When I got a lot of feedback on my version of repentance, I was truly confused. I had recently heard online material explaining repentance as "Metanoia". The way the "original greek" translation of the word repentance was highly revered in the online sermon. The "metanoia" version was placed on a pedestal for it's "originalness".

Also, in regards to the Deliverance ministry, I just decided to trust Christopher who called it pagan "deliverance" garbage. Christopher only promotes BIBLE BASED understandings. Since "folding" on the deliverance ministry I had zealously followed for 3 years, I have learned an interesting fact...
Let me first explain who my "minister" was, and how the ministry works.

The minister is a woman known by "Sheila Zilinsky". She runs a radio show out of Canada, to "expose the NWO and teach the deeper things on God"... She has a weekly radio podcast, in which she invites pastors and teachers from around Canada and US, for them to either expose a "machination of darkness" or to share a teaching on "deliverance". I will refer to all pastors and teachers involved in Sheila's radio show as the "Deliverance Circuit".

The deliverance circuit use the word "deliverance" synonymously with "spiritual warfare", although they have different meanings. They claim that deliverance was 1/3 of the ministry of Christ. They also claim that deliverance was 2/3 the ministry of Christ. I have heard them claim it was both 1/3 and 2/3. Essentially, it has taken me 3 years to realize they are dividing the ministry of Christ into three categories: Preaching, healing, and casting out devils.

In the words of Zilinsky and her first mate Carla Butaud:
"Prayer is when you are addressing God, warfare is when you are addressing the enemy"

I was new to Christianity when I found the deliverance circuit, and it was very appealing to me at the time. I had had so many horrible events happen to me that I was basically begging God to help me, that I would make any change necessary to have peace, finally.

Horrible Events:
Extreme Emotional abuse from Narcissistic homosexual women
Homelessness
Lost my mind from trauma and wickedness
Family connections terminated
Wanting to die


Basically, Zilinsky chalks all horrible recurring experiences are curses! From witches, generational curses, familiar spirits. Okay, so I followed her "curse breaking" Instructions, invoking the name of Christ. Actually, I do have good results since following her directions -EXCEPT- ...

Matthew 7:22
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”

In this scripture from Matthew 7, we see the Lord himself acknowledging there will be many who will say Lord, Lord, didn't I break all my curses and cast these devils out, just like you did as recorded in the book of acts? Lord, I did deliverance, see?

Here's what Jesus will say to the deliverance circuit and their thousands of followers

Matthew 7:23
“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”


Let me tell you what the difference is between me now, and me when I was using "deliverance".

Now I know that none of these "warfare prayers" are going to save anyone from going to hell. I know that none of these "deliverance" ministers are bringing their congregations to grief and godly sorrow. Actually, they are barely even preaching the false version of repentance. It's mostly not taught at all. It's just not as juicy as "bringing down the NWO with prayer".

Why did I flip on deliverance ministry?

It did not take me long to come back to Christopher, apologizing and settling on ending my engagement in the deliverance circuit, and replacing my douay rheims bible for a KJV. After I was banned, I continued pouring over the website and the youtube sessions. My first full session was the 6 part series on repentance. It was very edifying, and for once in my life I realized I can detect leaven.

Now it was time for me to pick apart Zilinsky's teachings. First off, I should metion that I was having growing doubts that Zilinsky's ministry was legit. My questions to Zilinsky have almost all been unanswered, but they were the following, 1-4 questions.

• 1.   How does Zilinsky reconcile her teachings with the biblical roles of women
  King James Bible
  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
  
  I understand that women are not expected to be silent day in and day out, and I understand that women can have a role in evangelizing. But it is my understanding that woman pastors and teachers is not biblical. Zilinsky says she runs a "Ministry", maybe to avoid being called a teacher--however, she has opened some of her radio shows saying "I can't wait to get into this teaching" "This is a timely teaching!". This indicates she is literally teaching. Another proof of her being a teacher would be my own experience being taught by her.
  I was having questions bubble up about her role as a "teacher" in the Church.
  
   
•   Why, after 3 years, do I still not understand the word?  This doesn't need much explanation. Most of her teachings are based by conspiracy, or a "machination of darkness"
  I think she derives this saying "expose the machinations of darkness" from:
  Ephesians 5:11 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them 
  
  Today, it is obvious to me that she has blown this verse completely out of context. What Zilinsky claims is that we have a responsibility as Christians to be "Exposing the machinations of darkness".
  
  machination
  [ mak-uh-ney-shuhn ]
  NOUN
  an act or instance of machinating.
  Usually machinations. crafty schemes; plots; intrigues.
  
   Zilinsky is saying that exposing the schemes of witches, femenists, NWO elite is a responsibility of Christians!
  As of today, I now know that the only way Zilinsky could have gotten "Expose the NWO" out of Ephesians 5:11 is by using the ESV Bible, which says
  Ephesians 5:11
  Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
  
  There is a serious difference between "reprove" and "expose", and I know now to use a KJV. Zilinsky has claimed to be a KJV "onlyist", but her use of the phrase "expose the works of darkness" shows she is not an KJV "onlyist".
  
  
•    What does Zilinsky teach on repentance?  This is probably the biggest question, even though it has made it to number 3 on this list. Let me tell you what I've found: Zero teachings on repentance. You can check to see if I am right or not. She has literally hundreds of videos and podcasts. Literally hundreds of teachings exposing the depravity of the world and the plotting of the NWO. She has hundreds of videos in which she will pray "deliverance" over people- breaking their curses, teaching them which devils are which, and what maladies come with certain devils.
  
  I won't claim to say that I know more about devils than Zilinsky. She has libraries of information on fairies, marine spirits, familiar spirits. She has dedicated her life to exposing the "enviromentalists" and "techno-geddon" technology.
  
  The nail in the coffin for me, on Zilinskys ministry wasn't her material on the "darkness". The final straw was the abscence of material on repentance.
  
  Zilinsky will claim that Jesus himself expects us to be casting out the devils, healing the sick, and raising the dead. She says this over and over, that 2/3 of Jesus' ministry was casting out devils and healing the sick. My point is, Why has Sheila left out that lonely 1/3 of Jesus' Ministry? Repentance. This was also the first thing the Apostles did after Jesus ascended. Zilinsky is obviously leaving repentance out. This is a grave error. A keyword search on her youtube channel will reveal she has NO teachings on repentance. Again, this is a grave error.
  
  She loves to use the phrase "Jesus Himself".
   I.E. "Jesus Himself said this, Jesus Himself did that" - She does this to fortify her point and make what she teaches "indisputable"
  
  Here's what I say to Zilinsky's Ministry:
  "Jesus Himself" prophesied:
  
  Matthew 7: 22 - 23
  
  Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
  
  Zilinsky and the rest of the deliverance circuit are fulfilling Christ's prophecy by creating MANY deliverance vigilantes who do not know what repentance is. They don't even get a false teaching on repentance. They get no material whatsoever on repentance.
  
  I searched the material from these entities who are often on Zilinsky's show. Their websites or youtubes reveal NO MATERIAL on repentance.
  
  West Coast Church of Deliverance/ Montrose Colorado
  Promised Land Ministries / Edmonton Canada
  Carla Butaud
  Monty Mulkey
  Tom Horn
  Omegaman
  Dr. William Schnoebelen
  "Apostle" Danny Morano
  Many, many more
  
  
•    Why has Zilinsky contradicted herself?
  I'll quickly get into this one, it doesn't need a lot of explanation. I can say I know probably 90% of Zilinsky's material. I own two of her books, I listened to as many of her podcasts as possible. I have some practically memorized. I can say confidently I know her material enough to make the claim she has contradicted herself.
  She made a podcast about "Zionism and the Kabballah" in which she SLAMS the Hebrew Roots movement and even says to her guest that she would ask a Hebrew Root's member  sarcastically "Where do you burn your sacrifices?". She had more to say about how using the name "Yeshua" is wrong and we shouldn't do it, that supporting Israel is supporting 3rd term abortion and homosexuality. 
  Maybe you're thinking, Where is her contradiction?
  Just two weeks ago, Zilinsky had a guest on her show: An Ex-Witch and Ex- Freemason known As "Dr. William Schnoebelen" who refers to Jesus Christ as "Yehushua Ha'Maschia", wears a yarmulka and possibly some other Jewish Garb.
  
  The contradiction to me, is that she verbally sanctified herself from this doctrine, yet brought someone who, in my opinion, is definitionally a Hebrew Rootist onto her show.
  
  Zilinsky has brought many people on her show who have brought contradictory doctrines on air. I have even heard someone once claim that "Jesus and Satan are Brothers" on her show, with no correction from Zilinsky. I don't remember which Guest had said that, but I believe it was either Monty Mulkey or Tom Horn.
  

Well I certainly think that is enough information about Zilinsky. While this part of my new introduction is not about me specifically, it does shed some light on what I have been doing for the past 3 years in my spiritual life. I was continually praying that God would guide me, if I ever was ignorant or unwitting to false teachings. God heard my prayer, and he has mercifully brought me to the unleavened teachings on www.creationliberty.com.
I am very blessed to have found this website. I did not understand the word, I did not know how to teach the word. When I say teach the word, I am talking about speaking of repentance to anyone, randomly. Not a regimented teaching.
I did not understand repentance, and while I may have been given the gift of grief and Godly sorrow of wrongdoing, I did not know it was a gift, I did not know what to do with it, I did not know it was repentance.

Because I simply cannot be certain that I have truly repented, I have been praying that this gift could be brought to me by his grace. I have so much more to be cleaning out of my life, but I have a good start, thanks to God's grace and longsuffering: He has truly heard my prayers. I have renounced homosexuality, drinking, drugs, tobacco, mainstream music and media. Doing these things, by the grace of God, has changed my life from scary and dangerous to peaceful and fulfilling. I finally have another resource to continue to clean my life out, doing works meet for repentance.



I am 26 years old, I live in Central Utah. I am an exmormon, I left Mormonism for paganism, drinking, and homosexuality. Once those sins ravaged my life to be almost unlivable, I came in sorrow and begging the Lord God to save me. Since then, I have seen many parts of my life converted from unbridled wickedness to sanctification- All Glory to the Lord God.

My mother and step father are devout Mormons who have "moved on" from having me and my twin brother in their lives. My twin brother is a US Navy Veteran who believes he is a woman on the inside and his wife believes she is non-binary, or no gender. My twin thinks the Bible was fabricated and believes in evolution. He gets very angry when I bring up the Bible, he wrongly thinks it is "Sexist and Racist". My life is somewhat lonely in terms of family or friends.
I have the Lord God as the focus of my life, and he has blessed me. I do not feel alone, although I do not have a network of people I engage with.


I hope I can find a place here on the forum and in the Group. I'm sorry I did not originally understand what everyone was saying the first go around. I thought that the "Metanoia" definition of repentance was the only answer. I was definitely confused!

I'm really looking forward to any replies, and I want you all to know I have really been pouring myself over the material on this website. I find it all very special, and I am currently about halfway through the "Corruptions of Christianity: Catholicism" Youtube Sessions. I knew Catholicism was off, but now I can see perfectly clear: Catholicism is Paganism.


I also now know, that My dad, my grandpa, and my grandma are all in Hell because they rejected Jesus Christ. That is saddening, but it shows the importance of repentance. God was longsuffering with all three of those family members. Unless the the last moments of their life, they were given the Gifts of grief and sorrow of wrongdoing, believing in Christ, it can be said they went to hell.

As for my dad, before his death, he got involved in new-age spiritualism: Using tarot cards and Native American spiritism, or Native American Witchcraft. My father's father, and my mother's mother died as Mormon's. One of my grandmother's last wish was to "renew her temple recommend" (the Plastic ID Card that grants entrance to the Mormon temple)
I'm almost certain this was her preparing for the heaven the Mormons taught her, that by renewing her temple recommend, she would be worthy to enter heaven. This isn't the case, she went to hell, and so did my other family members.


I don't tell any of this lightly, but just to convey my grief on this, and my testimony that I fully know what repentance is now, I know how important it is, and that there is no other way into heaven Except through Repentance and believing on Christ. His blood must be on my account.

I give thanks to the Lord God who saw fit for me to find the truth on repentance, and the truth of entering Heaven, through Christ.



Thank you for reading!
McKenna

[theAXEisLAID]

McKenna - I enjoyed reading your new introduction. Praise God, that you have seen the corruption in Mormonism and the deliverance circuit. I wallowed in the corruption of man's deceitful religion for a long time before I came to understand as you said, "that there is no other way into heaven Except through Repentance and believing on Christ." That really is the dividing factor for all men and even the dividing factor for those who confess Christ. It is good to have you back.

[Kenneth Winslow]

McKenna,
I appreciate the information in your new introduction. It looks like you were writing some of that in order to more firmly settle some things in your own heart. I say that because writing stuff down helps me do that too.
However, I think some folks on this forum are still thinking, as I am, about some of the things you said to said before you were banned. Specifically what you said to Ellie, Tim and Chris. There may be others that I didn't catch, but I remember at least those three.
If you've already spoken to them about how you treated them and come to an understanding, then others need to know that.
If you haven't, you need to.
Wether here on the forum or in a private conversation that needs to be taken care of.

[Jeanne]

Hi McKenna,

With your new introduction, I feel more like there is a person here that I can actually have a conversation with, which wasn't the case before. I was at a loss as to how to relate to you. But I really enjoyed reading what you had to say here.

Kenneth brought up a good point. I know you have apologised to Chris and straightened things out with him, and I would like to know that you have done the same with Tim and Ellie, too.

On a side note, I found it very interesting that you mentioned William Schnoebelen, and his involvement in Ms Zilinski's 'ministry'. I hope Chris will forgive me for bringing this up again, as we have had somewhat of a misunderstanding regarding him. I've always been a bit sceptical of his claims to be an ex-Satanist and high level Freemason. The reason for this is that there was a guy back in the '80s named Mike Warnke, who wrote a book call The Satan Seller, in which he detailed his experiences as a Satanic high priest and how he was delivered from all that by coming to Christ. The book was very popular, and Warnke then went on to doing speaking tours (I actually saw him in person once) and being a guest on various 'Christian' televisions programs. However, it came out in 1992 that Warnke had made up the whole story; he had never been a Satanist as he claimed, nor had he ever been in the military as he claimed in the book. The whole thing was a fabrication from start to finish, and I've always wondered if Schnoebelen might not have done the same thing. (If I remember correctly, he also claimed to have helped Gary Gygax create the game Dungeons & Dragons by sharing his 'expertise' in witchcraft to make the game more realistic.) Anyway, ever since the Mike Warnke incident, I have never again taken anyone who claims to be an ex-Satanist at face value just on their word alone, without some corroborating evidence. Especially someone who claims to have been in the highest levels of witchcraft, Freemasonry, or other secret society. I'm not saying that there are not ex-witches and Satanists who have come to Christ, because I'm sure there have been. But when someone starts going on various ministry shows making claims of being in the 'highest levels' of these things, my radar starts pinging, and I tend to approach that person with caution rather than just believe everything they say they've done. John Todd was another one who claimed to have been born into a family of witches before converting to Christianity and who was also later exposed as a fraud. Bottom line, if someone is cashing in on their witchcraft/Satanist/secret society experiences, writing books and doing speaking tours talking about it, I tend to think something's fishy. I'm not saying Schnoebelen is definitely a liar, either. Just that without more corroborating evidence from other parties, I don't buy it.

[Rowan M.]

I can relate to what Kenneth said about writing helping you settle things in your heart. It definitely helps me a lot!

Also, I'm glad Jeanne has brought up William Schnoebelen, because I wanted to say a little bit about him too. In addition to writing a number of books and making some DVDs, he also has a Web site called With One Accord Ministries. He is definitely into some weird stuff, kind of "Hebrew Roots", and certainly into deliverance ministry, and "spiritual warfare", and all that sort of carry-on. There is a definite focus on conspiracies too.

Anyway, I read a number of Schnoebelen's books about ten years ago. I found them through Chick Publications, which used to promote them. According to my 2011 diary, I bought them from Amazon via links on the Chick site. However, I had a look at the Books section on the Chick site today, and they are no longer advertising any of Schnoebelen's books. I'm not sure exactly when they dropped him, but anyway, at least no one else is going to discover Schnoebelen through Chick. Incidentally, Jack Chick quotes from John Todd in some of his "Crusaders" comics, in particular The Broken Cross, Angel of Light and Spellbound?. Pretty sure he includes the odd John Todd quote in some of his regular tracts too (especially ones that focus on rock music). But back to Schnoebelen: I remember that his books contained a lot of material that I would call "way out". They read more like science fiction or horror novels than a true account a lot of the time. Particularly his autobiography, Lucifer Dethroned. But there were other books he wrote on Freemasonry, Wicca, UFOs and spiritual warfare generally (e.g. Blood on the Doorposts) that went to some very strange places, although I think there was some genuine information mixed in. By far the weirdest book he wrote was Space Invaders, which was his take on aliens and UFOs. There was a lot of stuff in there which, by his own admission, was highly speculative. I stopped by Schnoebelen's site a little earlier, and while most of the books that I remember are still available from there, Space Invaders is not. So that book must have been too crazy even for him! (He does have a couple of DVDs on the subject though, and seems to have just put out a new half-hour video about aliens, UFOs and the occult that's free to view on his site or YouTube - I won't be bothering with it, but if you want to watch it for research on him, at least it won't cost you anything.)

I fully agree with Jeanne that we should be very wary of people who are making money out of their alleged former experiences. People tend to be very attracted to "secret knowledge". It's precisely why so many become involved in the occult. But it is also why people can be drawn into cults or conspiracy ministries, both of which claim to have "secret knowledge" that will give you the "enlightenment" you need. People who say they were "high-level" this or that are also claiming "secret knowledge". "Psst, listen up, I'm gonna tell you all the dark secrets that They Don't Want You to Know - just buy my book, DVD and tickets to my show". The problem with chasing after such "secret knowledge" is that you lose focus on the truth of the Bible that you really need. It is worth noting these words of Jesus here: Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. (John 18:20) Christ doesn't hide anything. Everything is out in the open, free for all to read and hear.

However, even if Schnoebelen is being completely truthful about his life, there are many issues with his doctrine, and that alone is reason enough to mark and avoid him. Just briefly on the subject of Satanism: I'm sure there are many extremely dark and evil things that go on in it, especially at higher levels. But I also suspect that it would be extremely difficult for anyone who was "in deep" to expose it without getting killed. The fact that Schnoebelen has carried on all these years without suffering any major harm for his "exposure" of Satanism suggests to me that those who are actually involved in it are quite happy for his narrative to be in the public domain. So they can't consider him to be too much of a threat to them. Moreover, I reckon the Devil likes it when people obsess over what he and his followers are doing. He'll take negative attention as well as positive, just so long as people are not concentrating on God and His Word.

Finally, to McKenna, it's good to see you back again, because most people that leave this site, or get banned, never return. It is clear to me that the Lord has done some significant work in your heart, and that there is some "good soil" in there. Without that, you would not have had the attitude change that you have. There is a lot more humility than there was previously. I'm really encouraged by that. But I also agree with Kenneth and Jeanne about making things right with Tim and Ellie. Thanks for this new post and all the information about what you were previously involved with, and the dangers of those things.

[Ellie]

(Side note to those who have replied so far, I never actually responded to McKenna's original introduction, so she doesn't need to address me directly on anything. I was reading all the posts, but I did not personally respond.)

Hi McKenna,

We haven't spoken yet but I was observing everything happening on the forum previously, so I'm glad that you've come back to address some things. (Btw, my name is Elissa but my nickname is Ellie so I'm the one that others have referred to in their responses so far). I appreciate your explanation on some of the things you have been learning recently about what you used to be involved in and what you have begun to understand because it gives a better picture of what is going on.

It's good that you came back and apologized to Chris, and that you've come back to talk again. Like others have said, it is good to make amends where you have wronged and we are glad to speak with you again on more peaceful terms.

I wanted to respond because I do have some concerns, but I am hopeful that you will hear what I have to say as it seems that you are more willing to reason and discuss things now. My utmost desire is to be honest to you while also being patient and gentle, because I see similarities in what you are experiencing and speaking of compared to what I was going through right before I was saved myself. The Lord was (and is) very patient with me, so my goal is to do the same for you. I will address my concern, and I will explain what is similar in what I experienced previously and I hope you'll understand why I bring that up.

So, early in your post you said this:
"in regards to the Deliverance ministry, I just decided to trust Christopher who called it pagan 'deliverance' garbage."

I understand your point, and I don't want to make it seem like I am ripping apart everything you say in order to corner you or anything of that sort. I just want to point things out that concern me and hopefully you will understand why I am doing that. When you say that you decided to trust Chris on this fact, it concerns me because you don't have to trust Chris on it, but rather, look at what the Bible says on those things. You also said that "Christopher only promotes BIBLE BASED understandings." so maybe you do already understand that to a degree, and I'm glad that the CLE teachings are helping you (because they also have helped me a lot too) but I just want to point out that all the Biblical understanding that Chris (and any of us) have is because of the Holy Spirit teaching us after we were humbled to repentance and came to have faith in Jesus Christ. All of it comes from God. Each and every one of us is a wretched sinner in the sight of God that had to have the blood of Christ on our account, and none of us have anything good to offer without Him first giving it to us.

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. - Jeremiah 17:5-7

Another thing I wanted to address is when you said this: "Because I simply cannot be certain that I have truly repented..."

As a born again Christian, I do not believe that it is possible to not know whether you have repented in grief and godly sorrow or not. Once understanding what it truly means, I believe that it would be clear to those who have experienced it before because it is something that is indistinguishable from anything else (i.e. it is not just a regular emotion--worldly sorrow, because it comes with a deep, undeniable understanding of your true state). However, I am not saying this to discourage you, but rather, I am saying it to encourage you further in your prayer toward God to give it to you, and even more-so I would encourage you to examine yourself according to the scriptures.

Before I was saved I went through a somewhat similar experience to what you described in some ways. I turned away from being someone who was a fornicator, feminist, bisexual-identifying heathen to your average church-goer. Then, I too started getting heavily involved in false doctrine and false prophesies over time. I was involved with strange teachings, heresies, and truly demonic spiritual activity (claiming it was of God) while I was going to a supposedly "Christian" college campus. I had some red flags being raised though, and when I came home on winter break I decided I needed to look further into it because something seemed off. This reminds me of what you are going through currently because you are trying to understand what was wrong in the ministry you were involved with and you are picking apart the information you are finding. You have decided to separate yourself from it and look further into it, which is a good thing.

There was a specific false prophet/teacher that I was questioning what he was teaching us and telling us to do, so I started out primarily looking into the things he did and taught. I hadn't begun yet to examine myself, but I was trying to understand what was wrong with some of the practices in a general sense. Just based on what you are saying so far, it seems you are at that point yourself. I do not know for sure, but it's what I am seeing so far based on your words because you have primarily focused on what it is that you heard her say and what is wrong with it.

So, what I haven't seen so far in what you have said is what your previous involvement means about you personally on a spiritual level.

I did come away from the false doctrine to examine it on winter break, but that didn't mean that I was saved yet. After researching the practices I was involved with, I came to a point where I started opening up scripture and seeing myself in the reflection of the truth that it presented to me. I was seeking after those false doctrines that were preached to me. My heart was filthy and I wholly desired to do evil. I claimed to be a Christian while doing absolute wickedness in the sight of God (taking the Lord's name in vain), and I didn't think to check the scriptures on anything we did until months after being involved with it. I realized that I hated the truth and so I sought after lies. I knew I loved darkness rather than light and that I had always been a child of the devil, doing his evil deeds. I finally saw how disgusting and vile I was in God's sight for everything I had done and all the desires of my heart.

Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. - Psalm 51:2-4

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." - John 3:16-20

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. - John 8:44

False teachers will be held accountable to God too, but exposing their wickedness is of little gain to your own spiritual state unless you realize that your heart desired to seek after the doctrines of the devil, rather than the true doctrines of Jesus Christ.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. - Revelation 22:13-14

This scripture says that "those without" (i.e. those who will not enter into the kingdom of heaven) include those who "loveth a lie." That included me when I loved and sought after the lies (false doctrine and prophesies) I was told, and until you have come to repentance and faith in Christ, it includes you as well (unless I am wrong in my assessment and you have truly already come to repentance).

If you are curious about anything I said about my own testimony, I have it written in my introduction post linked here. I am genuinely glad that you have come back and explained some things, and also that you are going through a lot of the CLE articles. Let me know if you have any questions regarding anything I said, and if I need to clarify anything. I am open to correction by anyone in the church on anything I said as well.

[mpeay7]

Dear Ellie
This will be a quick response, until the weekend arrives and my responses will be fuller. I just wanted to quickly post and say I appreciate very much what you said. The heart is deceitful, and now I understand I sought those false teachings.
This is important to understand. If I try to justify myself by claiming it's all the "pied piper's" fault, then that is in vain. I fully sought after deception and reveled in it. I can't play an innocent card with God. He is not a liar.
Before I have read your response, I may have went on thinking the "pied piper" had played me. This is dangerous, it leads to false victimhood, and leaning upon my own understanding.
Thank you! I'll be back this weekend.


Dear Rowan
For the sake of the schedule I have today, this will be short. But to share a thought with you now rather than later when I might forget, I will post a small thought. Thank you for sharing your experience with Schnoebelen's material. I do somewhat relate on the feeling I received after hearing some of Schnoebelen's conclusions on the Word. I do not trust Schnoebelen, and have not for a long time. When Schnoebelen appeared on Zilinsky's radio show, I was pretty shocked. This is me speaking about my deeper thoughts: When I see a "Born Again" Christian who is an Ex-Satanist and Ex-Freemason who has moved on to being a Messianic Jew, that is a red flag. I don't know if he is a Messianic Jew. To me, that is a Christian/Jewish Hybrid of Christianity and Hebrew holidays, and the Yarmulka with ephasis on the Torah. I think it is quite concerning, and I question if Schnoebelen is deceived, or if he is purposefully deceiving. 

Thank you all for your thoughts


McKenna

[Ellie]

Dear Ellie
This will be a quick response, until the weekend arrives and my responses will be fuller.

Since it is the weekend now, I figured I would ask you what you think about the parts when I spoke about repentance, since you didn't address that in your last post. Particularly what I said right here:

Another thing I wanted to address is when you said this: "Because I simply cannot be certain that I have truly repented..."
As a born again Christian, I do not believe that it is possible to not know whether you have repented in grief and godly sorrow or not. Once understanding what it truly means, I believe that it would be clear to those who have experienced it before because it is something that is indistinguishable from anything else (i.e. it is not just a regular emotion--worldly sorrow, because it comes with a deep, undeniable understanding of your true state). However, I am not saying this to discourage you, but rather, I am saying it to encourage you further in your prayer toward God to give it to you, and even more-so I would encourage you to examine yourself according to the scriptures.

Could you respond to that part?

From what I can tell, I think you know that you have not truly had the godly sorrow that is testified of in the scriptures. Maybe God is starting to give you some understanding so that you can come to repentance (which I pray is the case), but any understanding you might have is causing you to become prideful, which is the opposite direction that this should be going. The truth is not something to be merely agreed with, but it is meant to bring you low to a state of humility that causes you to cry out to the Lord in deep sorrow of what you’ve done.

We’re not pointing things out to you so that you can conform your mindset to what we’re saying, we are telling you these things so that you can see your wretched state before God and come to him in repentance. You will never have a philosophy (way of thinking) that truly aligns with the truth until you have come to godly sorrow of what you’ve done and believed on Jesus Christ. We simply cannot accept you as brethren until that point, and when we have seen the true evidence of it along with a sound testimony. You can still speak with us of course (as long as you continue being peaceful), and I am glad you are being more reasonable than last time before being banned because it gives us more of a chance to reason things out with you because we ultimately want you to understand and be saved. But right now, you should solely be focused on your own personal state before God rather than giving your input on others’ biblical questions or spreading worldly philosophies (ways of thinking). And I see you’ve addressed that just now on the other thread, so that’s good that you agree you shouldn’t be teaching at this point.

You have a bit of a pattern with not being careful with your words, and I believe this is because you lack the fear of the Lord. I want to share some verses with you on these subjects.

If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. - James 1:26

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matthew 12:36-37

This should bring the fear of the Lord to you, because you will have to give an account for all the things you say thoughtlessly (some of which we have been correcting, here). Onto some other verses:

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. - Isaiah 66:1-2

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28

If you do not come to repentance and faith, this is what you are up against. All who do not repent of their wickedness and believe in Christ shall be cast into hell and the lake of fire for eternity. This is an incredibly fearsome prospect especially when we look at verses that speak about it.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 13:40-42

In Revelation, this is what happens to those who take the mark of the beast, but I believe it applies to everyone who goes to hell:

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. - Revelation 14:10-11

The reason I share this with you is for your own sake, so that this outcome can be avoided. I hope that you will consider these things, along with what else has been shared.

[mpeay7]

Dear Ellie

I have had many sorrows in this life, and have felt much grief. I have shed many tears, and have cried out to God in deep sorrow, saying I am sorry, and sobbing in grief.

I have had many sorrows and have felt extreme amounts of hopelessness and abandonment. I am very thankful God has brought me to these teachings. It was very long ago I prayed to God for him to "Show me if the Church was true". This is the Mormon Church. I also asked God to help me and be merciful, if the church was not true, to guide me to the truth. I prayed this when I was very young.

Like I said, I have had many deep sorrows and much pain in this life. I have cried out to God many times in many instances of grief. He has been merciful. I believe he has heard me because I live a life of peace now. He has shown me these teachings. He has not suffered for me to have perished before this point. I wanted to tell someone, I came very close to perishing a couple days ago, at work. I'm unharmed, but I know God had a hand in my physical placement during the time of the accident.

I don't know if any of my deep sorrows and grief was counted as repentance, even though I have been very grieved and have said "I'm sorry" to God.


Since I have accepted Jesus in 2017, I have had a more abundant life. I have made errors along the way, and accepting Jesus did not instantly take my sorrows away. I still have sorrows, I have still shed many tears since then, and have made many pleas to God to save me from my sin and from my miserable situations. Each miserable situation has ended, and a better day has been provided again and again.

So, because my past is filled with sorrows, I can't say if I have repented or not. I have also gone through times in my life that I have very little memory from. I don't want to wrongly say my grief and sorrow toward God is repentance, so I still pray for repentance.

[Ellie]

McKenna,

I am sorry that you went through what you have. I have not gone through all of what you mentioned so I can't say that I understand it. But I have gone through my own share of difficulties in life that caused me great sorrow, I had some pretty rough times and I shed many tears myself. Some of those circumstances were brought about by my own sin, and some were other sorrows about circumstances I simply couldn't control. I can even clearly remember a time years ago (before I was saved) praying and crying out to God in deep sorrow and tears that he would help me. The difference is that that wasn't repentance (even though there were tears involved and a desperate plea for help), that was sorrow over my circumstances and I wanted God to take me out of them to ease my pain. It was a cry of pain towards God, asking Him to help/save me when I had not yet considered all the wickedness I had done.

Knowing both of these kinds of sorrows myself, I can say that there is a distinguishable difference between worldly sorrow and repentance. There wouldn't be a question in your mind about it if you had repentance. Again, not saying this to discourage you, I only want to tell you the truth and hope that you will see it.

I don't think I brought this up to you previously, but it's something that stood out to me when I read it and maybe it is something that can further demonstrate my point:

After I was banned, I continued pouring over the website and the youtube sessions. My first full session was the 6 part series on repentance. It was very edifying, and for once in my life I realized I can detect leaven.

When I first saw this, my heart dropped. The reason for that is because I was hoping to see some evidence of godly sorrow in you (because that is what I hope to see in anyone claiming to be a Christian, of course). But instead, you explained that after you came across the truth of the doctrine of repentance, one of your first reactions was that you can "detect leaven"? This was very disheartening because that is the last reaction that I would expect out of someone who claims to be a Christian that has believed lies about repentance up until now.

After I was saved I believed in false doctrines about repentance for a while, and was deeply troubled day and night because I had no idea whether I was saved or not; whether I had come to repentance or not. So when I first read the article on CLE about repentance, I was in tears that I finally understood the truth about it and I had all confidence in my Lord that He had truly saved me now that I understood how it happened.

So you claim that after hearing the truth of repentance, you realized that you could detect leaven. In other words, after your discovery of the rare and beautiful truth of repentance, your realization was about an ability that you have to do something. This was a huge indicator to me of your lack of repentance, because for a born again Christian, coming to finally understand the truth of how we are saved does not bring to mind our own ability to do anything. But rather, it would remind us of our absolute inability to do anything right on our own, and it would remind us of our desperate need for our Lord Jesus Christ and His great mercy. A born again Christian's thoughts after learning this doctrine would not be about what we are able to do, but rather what God has done for us.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:21-23

The Lord will turn away those who pridefully tout their "wonderful works," but he will accept those who have come to Him in the humility of repentance, whose good works do not even cross their mind in the presence of the Lord. This is the difference between the sheep and the goats.

Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I say this to point out to you that the heart behind your words is continuing to show us pride, not repentance. Based on everything you've expressed here to us, it sounds like you have had worldly sorrow all these years, not the godly sorrow that works salvation. I hope that you will judge yourself according to the scripture and continue to pray for repentance.

[mpeay7]

Dear Ellile,

I'm sorry to see your heart dropped when you saw that I had said I learned how to detect leaven. This was a very important realization for me. Before I knew there was a corrupted version of repentance being taught, I was very vulnerable to corrupt doctrine.
When I said I learned how to detect leaven, I knew that it was going to be helpful for me as I continue forward. I wasn't going to be tossed to and fro by false teachers. I finally had a criteria for a false teacher.
1 Corinthians 2:10 - But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that there is a real reason to sanctify myself from leavened ministries. The ministries need to be teaching repentance correctly if I am going to engage with them.



I was amazed that I had learned repentance wrong, and wasted no time asking God to bring that gift to me. That amazement wasn't really an exciting amazement, it was very lamentable that I had learned wrong. Actually, of all the "conspiracy theories" that I know of, none really compare to the realization that repentance is taught wrong in most places.

Learning what repentance is fortified everything I know that is true, and the things that are false are being discarded. The teachings have taught me very much, and I am very very blessed.


I am not discouraged that you are helping me. I didn't want to say that the sorrow I felt toward God was repentance until I knew for sure. I will keep praying for repentance.
I want to go to Heaven and I know God will hear me when I pray for repentance, because he wants us to pray for that. Once I started picking up the bible, and praying for help, I have been seeing results. That is very nice, life was very stressful.  When I first started praying and reading the bible, I had so much in my life I was doing wrong. I was still listening to very evil music. I lived with witches. I wasn't a very good person. The bible was a free NIV from the thriftstore in a polygamist town. But now I am in a completely opposite place, and I don't do the things I did before.

2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV) “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land”

[Kenneth Winslow]

"I" 35 times in such a short post. 

That is a symptom of someone who has an "I" problem. 

[Ellie]

I'm sorry to see your heart dropped when you saw that I had said I learned how to detect leaven. This was a very important realization for me.

The reason my heart dropped was because I was hoping to see evidence this time of a repentant heart, but your words there only demonstrated pride in your own ability to do something. As I explained, this is not characteristic of someone who has been born again after coming across the truth of repentance. This is characteristic of children of the devil who have no repentance and no true understanding of the scriptures.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. - 1 John 2:16

1 Corinthians 2:10 - But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Here, this verse applies to those who actually have the Holy Spirit. If you have not repented, then you have no true faith in Jesus Christ and you do not have the Holy Spirit. So until you are born again, it doesn't apply to you.

Your claim that you can "detect leaven" now is not accurate either. What happened on this thread demonstrates that. Actually, what you did there was you began to spread leaven yourself. You claim in your pride that you have a newfound ability to do something that requires understanding of the scriptures, which you have consistently demonstrated that you do not have.

I want to go to Heaven and I know God will hear me when I pray for repentance, because he wants us to pray for that.

The last thing you should be doing if you are unsure whether you have repentance or not is continuing to puff yourself up over anything. You can keep praying to God for repentance but He sees everything you are doing and saying here, and all the thoughts of your heart. Why do you think that God is going to answer this prayer while you are actively justifying yourself before men and ignoring the scriptures being presented to you?

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. - Luke 16:15

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. - Proverbs 28:9

[mpeay7]

I suspected the thread would come up in which I referenced Jordan Peterson.
I made that post before I was banned. My first comment in the thread was to make sure it was known that I made that post before I came to an understanding of what repentance was.
The reason why I said in my second reply to that thread that I had come to an understanding since then wasn't to tout some sort of biblical prowess. I said that because I did not know if I still agreed with the quote. But I did not state that clearly at all... The intention of saying that I did not have an understanding when I agreed and posted the quote was to try to express that since then, I have had to majorly look at my thoughts and opinions to see if any of them were biblical.
I went on to answer the question I had received, and my intention was not to teach doctrine. If what I was doing needs to be described as teaching, I would say I was teaching how the logic of the quote settled in my mind. Not why the quote was biblically sound. I also was sure to say over and over "correct me if I am wrong". I fully understood it was possible, if not likely I was going to be wrong.

Like I said, I backed that quote up before knowing what repentance really was. When I listened to the 6 part session on repentance, I gained an understanding. When I came back to the thread with the comment after listening to the 6 part session and gaining an understanding, I knew that I wanted to state that I fully endorsed this quote before gaining an understanding.

Again, me saying that I had gained an understanding was not me trying to show off some scriptural prowess. What I meant by that was "Look, since then, I have learned a major piece of information that changes how I see pretty much anything" What I was not specific about "Look, since then, I have learned a major piece of information that changes how I see pretty much everything, so I can't say for sure if I still endorse this quote. This is how the [false] logic settled in my mind"

False is inside the parenthesis because we did definitively determine this was false logic.

I made sure to include "correct me if I am wrong" because I was anticipating a discussion.


Also, when I said "detect leaven", what I also mean by this is I know now that I don't need to be a scriptural genius to notice deviations from biblical truths. For whatever reason, I was under the impression that I had to be very learned in the bible to refute a false teaching. For whatever reason, I thought I would have to heap teachers to myself, along with concordances to be able to refute false teachers. I already suspected my teacher was a false teacher, I did not know how the truth of how easy it would be to see through a false teaching.

I say "easy" because knowing the simple truth of repentance is easier to me than studying lexicons. I don't know how many hours I would have wasted reading a concordance.
I do want to say that some teachers are not easy to see through. I am in the session now on Steven Anderson....


Fruitfully, I was shown a specific verse in the bible that negated the quote completely. It effectively blew that quote right out of the water. I am very grateful I was shown that verse, so I could dump the quote from my mind, and free up space for something fruitful.


Again, me realizing I could "detect leaven" wasn't me overjoyed about an ability I conjured up. It was a blessing. I was shown by my loving Heavenly Father. A massive false obstacle was removed. The truth was easy to see now, and this was very important for me. It is valuable to me because I know God has granted this, and it is valuable to me because it will be very useful for me.

Sorry if there has been any strain on your end, and if your heart dropped. That is sad for me.

 I want to please my Heavenly Father. I hope you can see that I am trying, I wont give up, and I will keep praying and studying.

[mpeay7]

Dear Ellie,

I got to thinking about it, and I wanted to share a metaphor to really describe where I was when I said "I can detect leaven" And it is a bread metaphor. I feel like this will explain what I am saying.


In a land where most everyone eats storebought  bread from cradle to grave, God has shown me I can make my own bread. I can make it with simple ingredients, it is wholesome. The storebought bread has preservatives and is ultra refined/processed.

I can make bread! Because God has shown me.  No longer is the oven obsolete for educated bakers. I no longer have to buy fluffy nutrientless bread. I can make my bread with nutrients, because God has taught me. God has suffered for me to find this website, where I learned to spot leaven, so I can remove it from my day-to-day. I am from a world where I previously believed I would need to either go to the "prime minister" of leaven spotting or educate myself to "prime minister of leaven spotting" levels. It turns out even filthy me can detect leaven, I don't need a saintly authority to do it for me. I don't need fancy false books. This is life changing. I could not will myself to supernaturally know how to make bread on my own.

I really hope this helps, do you still think I am prideful? I will listen I want to be peaceable while making sure I  am really understood. I think my overall absence of communicating with people for a very long time has affected how thorough I am in explaining necessary details. I am rusty, I do not normally have people I can talk to on a spiritual level. I am acclimating

Proverbs 9:8
Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

[Ellie]

McKenna, what you're saying here is only further demonstrating that you don't have any repentance and are not born again. I've been trying to show you that your words are showing the pride of your heart, and here is what the bible says about that:

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. - Matthew 15:18

The words you have said are demonstrating to us where your heart is. You don't need to make changes to anything to communicate with us more clearly. Communication isn't the issue, your heart of pride is the issue. You are trying to fix your appearance but the prideful heart is still there, in other words, you are seeking to "clean the outside of the cup and platter," as the scriptures explain.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. - Matthew 23:25-26

Your heart needs to be cleaned so that the outward appearance is not just a show. In other words, you need to come to repentance and faith in Christ, and your words will show us that humility so you won't have to continue to change your words to fit what you think we want to hear.

I was shown by my loving Heavenly Father.
...
 I want to please my Heavenly Father.

God is not your Father. God is the Father of those who have come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. You say in one area that you don't know if you've come to repentance, but then you claim with certainty that God is your Father. It can't be both, McKenna. That isn't how it works. The devil is the father of all unrepentant sinners, even the ones that claim they love God.

[Rowan M.]

In a land where most everyone eats storebought  bread from cradle to grave, God has shown me I can make my own bread. I can make it with simple ingredients, it is wholesome. The storebought bread has preservatives and is ultra refined/processed.

I can make bread! Because God has shown me.  No longer is the oven obsolete for educated bakers. I no longer have to buy fluffy nutrientless bread. I can make my bread with nutrients, because God has taught me. God has suffered for me to find this website, where I learned to spot leaven, so I can remove it from my day-to-day. I am from a world where I previously believed I would need to either go to the "prime minister" of leaven spotting or educate myself to "prime minister of leaven spotting" levels. It turns out even filthy me can detect leaven, I don't need a saintly authority to do it for me. I don't need fancy false books. This is life changing. I could not will myself to supernaturally know how to make bread on my own.

If I understand you correctly, McKenna, you are using bread to represent doctrine or teachings. "Store-bought" bread would thus be the doctrines of preachers who make lots of money from their teachings by putting them into expensive books and DVDs that their followers then buy. The "preservatives" and other bad ingredients are, I suppose, the worldly wisdom that they include in their work. The works of these preachers are "ultra-refined/processed" by the fact that if you "feed" on them, they will do you no good spiritually, just as eating store-bought bread (especially white bread) has very little nutritional value to you physically.

So you've figured out that previous preachers that you have listened to were teaching false doctrine (referred to in several New Testament passages as leaven). You know that their "bread" is really bad and that you no longer want to "buy" it. Fair enough. But then you say "I can make my own bread". Which I take to mean that you believe that you can figure out your own doctrine or your own theology now? And God has shown you how to just work it all out by yourself? Without any need for repentance and a changed heart? To me, that seems to confirm what Ellie was saying about you having pride in your own ability to do something. Sort of like if you learn to drive, initially you need an instructor to show you how to do it, but then you reach the point where you can drive without the instructor's help. You would be thankful to the instructor for showing you what to do, but proud of your own ability to drive. Or to return to a culinary analogy, you might receive good instructions from a recipe book, and be thankful to the author of the book for them, but still feel proud of what you made by yourself after following the recipe. This is not how God operates, but it seems to be how you are regarding Him. Also, just out of curiosity, who do (or did) you consider to be the "prime minister of leaven spotting"?

In some respects, you remind me of myself about 20 years ago. Although my life has been quite different to yours, I was raised on a lot of "store-bought bread". I had a corrupt modern Bible version, and listened to a radio station full of bad preachers teaching a great deal of heresy. I also listened to "Christian" rock and read "Christian" novels. Plus I read some "Christian" psychology and self-help books by the likes of Dr James Dobson. But then I underwent what I have termed my "Great Theology Shift". This was the time when I learned about the purity of the King James Bible and corruption of modern versions. I also learned about how wicked and worldly much of modern Christianity was. I learned about the errors of Pentecostalism (including deliverance ministries), the heresies of Roman Catholicism and why there is really nothing Christian about "Christian" rock music. I learned about the pagan origins of Christmas, Easter and other holidays too. A lot of deception that I learned in childhood and adolescence was undone and I learned (and largely embraced) a considerable amount of solid Biblical truth. Like you, I understood how bad that "store-bought bread" really was. I knew I didn't want THAT bread anymore.

But for all that my "bread" had far more "nutrients" than before (in other words, I understood much more Biblical truth than previously), there was one thing I lacked: a repentant heart. I was full of enthusiasm about the new things I was learning, but I had not faced up to my own sinfulness and wretchedness. (In fact, I kept on with a lot of pet sins!) I had not humbled myself before God and grieved over my sin and how I had wronged Him. It took quite a while longer before that happened. I praise God that it did in the end. He has certainly had to be very longsuffering with me though!

And I'm seeing you now having a similar excitement and enthusiasm as you understand how you were deceived before and are starting to learn some better and more right things. You're undergoing a "theology shift" of your own as you get away from the deliverance ministry stuff you were involved with previously. That's good as far as it goes. But without repentance and a humble heart before God, you are actually not much better off than before. The quality of your "bread" might be a bit better nowadays, but it's the state of your heart that God is most concerned with. (On that point, please take careful note of Ellie's latest post.) You can have better knowledge and understanding, but if your heart is still unrepentant over your sin, then you're still not saved. You can't be born again by dint of having somewhat more correct doctrine than before. The Pharisees had more correct doctrine than the Sadducees, but they were just as lost because of the pride in their hearts and complete lack of repentance. My doctrine improved immensely 20 years ago, but I still wasn't saved back then because of the pride I had in my heart, and lack of repentance over my sin. Hence if I had died back then, I would have gone to Hell, but just with a bit more knowledge and understanding that I'd had prior to the turn of the century.

McKenna, right now you are kind of like the people described in 2 Timothy 3:7, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. You can learn lots of great stuff here, and certainly much truth, yet it will do you no good in the long run if you don't understand the truth of your own wickedness and wretched state before God, and your need to be saved. Like Ellie has pointed out in a couple of places, your focus needs to shift from others' sins against you (in terms of deception and so on) to your sins against God. That is what she eventually came to do, and I did too, although for both of us, it took a while. For my part, it would have taken rather less time if I hadn't had so much pride and stubbornness going on. And when it comes to true repentance, you most assuredly can't "make your own bread". Rather, you need to turn to Him who is the Bread of Life:

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (John 6:32-35)

You need to come to God in repentance (i.e. repent towards God, be grieved in your heart over your sins against Him) and believe on Jesus Christ for salvation. After that, you can concern yourself with doctrinal matters as you learn and grow, but being born again is your most urgent priority right now. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3) Please don't take as long as I did, because you don't know how much longer you will have. Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth. (Proverbs 27:1) I hope that you will live for many years yet, and have a happy and fulfilling life in the process, but none of us knows how many years God has allotted us.

[creationliberty]

The words you have said are demonstrating to us where your heart is. You don't need to make changes to anything to communicate with us more clearly. Communication isn't the issue, your heart of pride is the issue. You are trying to fix your appearance but the prideful heart is still there, in other words, you are seeking to "clean the outside of the cup and platter," as the scriptures explain.

I just want to add that I agree 100% with what Ellie said here. McKenna, the reason you cannot see what we are seeing, is because of this right here:

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-2Co 2:13-14

This is not a problem you are going to be able to fix by coming up with new ideas on ways you can phrase your sentences or by giving more creative analogies because the more you write, the more evidence you are providing to us that you have not been born again in Jesus Christ, and you do not care about following Him. As Jesus said to a whole crowd of people who believed on him...

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
-John 8:43-47

I have to step in to address this because I don't know if anyone else caught it, but you are a liar McKenna, and I definitely don't trust you now because you have done it (at least) twice since you joined this forum. Here is the process of the conversation:

MCKENNA: "After I was banned, I continued pouring over the website and the youtube sessions. My first full session was the 6 part series on repentance. It was very edifying, and for once in my life I realized I can detect leaven."
ELLIE: "When I first saw this, my heart dropped. The reason for that is because I was hoping to see some evidence of godly sorrow in you (because that is what I hope to see in anyone claiming to be a Christian, of course). But instead, you explained that after you came across the truth of the doctrine of repentance, one of your first reactions was that you can "detect leaven"? This was very disheartening because that is the last reaction that I would expect out of someone who claims to be a Christian that has believed lies about repentance up until now."
MCKENNA: "I got to thinking about it, and I wanted to share a metaphor to really describe where I was when I said "I can detect leaven" And it is a bread metaphor. I feel like this will explain what I am saying. In a land where most everyone eats store bought bread from cradle to grave, God has shown me I can make my own bread. I can make it with simple ingredients, it is wholesome. The store bought bread has preservatives and is ultra refined/processed. I can make bread! Because God has shown me."

You lied. You said you were going to explain "what I am saying" by the phrase "detect leaven" and based on your explanation, what you originally meant by "detect leaven" (i.e. in the FIRST post you mentioned it) was based on the context of what I said in my teaching on repentance. We all know it is a bread metaphor because that's how Jesus Christ used it:
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
-Mat 16:11
But the main point is that you LIED to try to cover yourself once you were called out on it because you then tried to come up with some other explanation for why you said "I can detect leaven." You knew it not make any sense after you got called out on it, so then what you did is try to go back and FEEL out a way (i.e. via the deceptiveness of your own heart) that you could try to twist it in a way that made sense (i.e. thinking that others here would not see right through you), and the reason you did that is because you first ASSUMED that when the idea came into your mind (and that you typed it into a post) that you "detect leaven," that it was automatically from God, so instead of being rebuked that it only came from the selfish thinking of your own deceived heart, you decided to "re-interpret" what you had previously said to make it sound better, and that is exactly the pattern of a liar.

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
-Pro 6:16-19
God Does Not Justify Lies

Also, Christ's explanation of his analogy is not the same as what you explained it to be:
No longer is the oven obsolete for educated bakers. I no longer have to buy fluffy nutrientless bread. I can make my bread with nutrients, because God has taught me. God has suffered for me to find this website, where I learned to spot leaven, so I can remove it from my day-to-day. I am from a world where I previously believed I would need to either go to the "prime minister" of leaven spotting or educate myself to "prime minister of leaven spotting" levels. It turns out even filthy me can detect leaven, I don't need a saintly authority to do it for me. I don't need fancy false books. This is life changing. I could not will myself to supernaturally know how to make bread on my own.
First of all, that's called the wisdom of the world (or the "wisdom of words", where you make up something in your own heart based on how you feel, and then say "God showed it to you." It's a convenient excuse to say what you want and act like you have the wisdom of God.
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
-1Co 1:17
That being said, you spoke of "detecting leaven" in the sense that I used it in the teaching I did on repentance. Then you tried to change what you meant (in the same deceptive way you tried to change your definitions on repentance to cover yourself) to talk about "nutrients" in bread, which is not what leaven is. This has nothing to do with eating bread or the nutrients it gives you, and not only is your undefined phrasing of your declaration to "supernaturally... make bread" make no sense at all (because God is not the author of confusion, see 1Co 14:33), but I want to make this abundantly clear:

I DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

I don't care about your wild explanations about all the strange and weird things you keep saying. You are trying to paint outward appearance, and as I told you from the very beginning:
"I care about what you believe, not what kind of outward appearance you are trying get me to accept."
-http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1392.msg11985#msg11985

It is very obvious to me now that you have NO interest in understanding the doctrines of Christ, and I am glad I changed your profile "belief" setting because I have ZERO evidence that you have anything to do with the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a very difficult thing, McKenna, to claim in arrogance that you can "detect leaven" in the world, when you cannot even see it in your own heart.
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39

From a philosophical perspective (i.e. concerning your way of thinking), you have not changed one bit since you first joined this forum. You are still trying to get us to accept an outward appearance. Changing what bible version you are using won't make any difference in that regard, and furthermore, you might as well just go back to Sheila Zilinsky because nothing has changed. That would be more philosophically honest because your god is the emotions of your heart, and we will NOT worship your false goddess with you.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
-Jer 17:9
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26

Frankly speaking, I have no idea why you are pushing so hard to be here. Obviously, you are running into opposition with every post you make, which means the people who are on this forum are NOT like-minded with you. So why are you pushing so desperately to be accepted here? Why not just find somewhere else to go?

I can tell you this for certain, there is no magical incantation (i.e. a special formula of words) that you are going to be able to say that will make us accept you as brethren and bring you into the church with us because we can see your heart by what you say, and I will repeat the verse that Ellie so aptly quoted:

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18

We know your heart by the things you say, and you cannot cover that up for those who have spiritual discernment from the Lord Jesus Christ. Again, you should find somewhere else to go because, as you pointed out to us before, you are a very busy woman, and I do not want you to waste your time here.

[mpeay7]

Hello
So I see that I from what you are saying, I am not a Christian, I am not saved, I am not bretheren. I have just been a false convert.

I'd like to be saved, so I will keep praying for that and for my prideful heart to be broken.

[Ellie]

Hello
So I see that I from what you are saying, I am not a Christian, I am not saved, I am not bretheren. I have just been a false convert.

Yes, correct.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.- James 4:8-10