Author Topic: Canaanite wedding  (Read 13357 times)

dmac

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Canaanite wedding
« on: June 20, 2021, 01:53:57 PM »
I was shocked the first time i heard this. So I always wondered why Christ said he doesnt know the day he would come back well this sure explains alot. So the canaanite wedding was very different in regards of tradition. Basically the groom would present the bride with a glass of wine and if the bride refused they would leave it and they would not marry but if the bride drank they would accept the offer of marriage. Then the bride and groom would depart while the groom went to prepare a place for the bride and the father of the groom would be the one that calls the groom when its time for them to get married and the bride would literally stand ready at any time to be called even going as far as sleeping in her wedding dress. It could be a day it could be months or years but whenever the time the father of the groom decides he tells the groom go get your bride.
     That floored me when i first heard it because i just thought of it as something that no man could ever come up with on theyre own. I mean thats just brilliant and i think symbolism like this is on a whole other level. Im sure i dont need to explain Christ is the groom God the Father is the father of the groom and the bride is the church but ill put it here anyway.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 02:05:50 PM by dmac »

Jeanne

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2021, 06:14:08 PM »
I never heard this before, either. Could you please tell us where you found out about this? Are you sure that this is actually what the tradition was at that time, or is someone just trying to make a correlation to when Jesus is coming back?

anvilhauler

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2021, 07:05:54 PM »
A wedding is just that   ....  a wedding  ...  and after that a couple are "wed"  ....  they are husband and wife.  I doubt Jesus would be interested in being at an event where the bride to be can mess the groom around by some means of extending the period of the betrothal.  And what about all the guests and the food they might have brought along and that they had gone to the trouble of having wedding clothes suitable to attend a wedding.

When Jesus returns for His people is the Day of Trumpets.  If you go back and read again in the Old Testament about the Day of Trumpets you will see that it is a day that no-one definitely knows because they are looking for the sliver of the New Moon at the beginning of the month on the seventh month of the year.

Leviticus 23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.


Note that the Day of Atonement is ten days after the Day of Trumpets.  All of these feasts are still yet to be fulfilled.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

dmac

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 09:24:10 PM »
Jeanne thats a really good question I heard it from my father in law a while ago. Sorry if any of its incorrect i was typing it by memory. The reason its a good question is  I only looked a little online about it. I found a couple articles online and theres books written about it but i didnt dive any deeper than that. I should look into things more before i post it.
I believed what he said because my mind went straight to the parable of the 10 virgins. I understand the meaning of that parable but the actual events that happen in the parable never made since to me like the virgins waiting in the bridechamber for the groom to call them doesnt actually make since to me so when he told me that it made since. Anyway heres a link i found online about it. https://http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/jewish_marriage_customs.htm

dmac

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2021, 09:48:56 PM »
A wedding is just that   ....  a wedding  ...  and after that a couple are "wed"  ....  they are husband and wife.  I doubt Jesus would be interested in being at an event where the bride to be can mess the groom around by some means of extending the period of the betrothal.  And what about all the guests and the food they might have brought along and that they had gone to the trouble of having wedding clothes suitable to attend a wedding.
Anvil I didnt mean the bride drinks the wine on the wedding day itself. Im not sure what your talking about in the last half of your reply. Ilooked up leviticus 23 and i didnt see how it relates with what im talking about.

Jeanne

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2021, 09:53:02 PM »
Jeanne thats a really good question I heard it from my father in law a while ago. Sorry if any of its incorrect i was typing it by memory. The reason its a good question is  I only looked a little online about it. I found a couple articles online and theres books written about it but i didnt dive any deeper than that. I should look into things more before i post it.
I believed what he said because my mind went straight to the parable of the 10 virgins. I understand the meaning of that parable but the actual events that happen in the parable never made since to me like the virgins waiting in the bridechamber for the groom to call them doesnt actually make since to me so when he told me that it made since. Anyway heres a link i found online about it. http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/jewish_marriage_customs.htm

I didn't read this whole thing, but I read most of it. Enough to see that it was promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture theory, anyway, and that is false doctrine. The church will meet Christ in the air AT His Second Coming, not some period BEFORE. Jesus is only coming back ONCE. See more details here:

http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/trib.php

This article also seems to be promoting the idea of a 'sinner's prayer' in order to be saved, and that's a whole 'nother problem...

dmac

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2021, 10:12:43 PM »
Yeah Jeanne I only linked it because it was talking about the canaanite wedding thing. I myself dont believe in the pre trib rapture. The pre trib rapture had nothing to do with the reason i linked it. I just did because i saw a bunch of books the author pulled this idea from and thought that could be useful. I was trying to find jewish websites explaining it but i couldnt find any.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 10:17:51 PM by dmac »

Jeanne

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2021, 10:42:00 PM »
Hmmm... I wonder if there were no Jewish websites explaining this because it was never really a Jewish custom to begin with? It wouldn't be the first time some religious leader or organisation just totally made something up to make it fit a certain narrative. They're no different to politicians or other propagandists in that regard sometimes...

dmac

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2021, 11:27:11 PM »
Thats a posibility i asked my father in law where he learned it from he said hes gonna get me a dvd so im hoping that has evidence because that symbolism sounded pretty cool.

Jeanne

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2021, 02:06:51 AM »
Dylan, you can't rely on symbolism to 'prove' the Bible or to explain the parts you don't fully understand. Remember, secret societies such as the Freemasons and others are heavily into symbolism, too. Not only that, but this very symbolism is what is being used to promote false doctrine! The whole thing falls apart if you don't believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture.

dmac

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 03:07:22 AM »
Good call on pointing out the flaws i shouldve looked into it more. I dont see how it falls apart without the pre trib rapture though or how free mason symbolism can be compared to this.

Jeanne

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2021, 05:23:18 AM »

Okay, so I read the rest of the article and looked at the footnotes. It does appear that the author got his informtion from a couple of Jewish encyclopaedias and at least one book on Jewish history. But the part that I specifically have a problem with is this:

In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout (1 Thess. 4:16).

Similar to the Jewish bride's return with the groom to his father's house after her departure from her home, the Church will return with Christ to His Father's house in heaven after she is snatched from the earth to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:2-3).

In the same manner as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Christ and the Church will find the souls of Old Testament saints assembled in heaven when they arrive. These souls will serve as the wedding guests.

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom and bride entering into physical union after their arrival at the groom's father's house, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier, Christ and the Church will experience spiritual union after their arrival at His Father's house in heaven, thereby consummating their relationship that had been covenanted earlier.

Corresponding with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring His Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true church is (Col. 3:4).

Also, at the end, where it talks about the significance of this analogy, there is what amounts to a sinner's prayer:

This analogy between Jewish marriage customs and Christ's relationship to the Church is very beautiful, but what practical significance does it have for today?

The answer to this question is twofold. First, if you have never taken Jesus Christ personally to be your Saviour from sin, it has great significance for you. Christ came to this earth and died on a cross for the purpose of paying the penalty for your sins. Through the shedding of His blood He paid the price necessary to purchase you to be part of His Bride, the Church. He thereby established a new covenant through which you can enter into a special relationship with Him.

Every time the gospel of Jesus Christ is declared to you, Christ is proposing that you enter into this special relationship with Him. In essence He is saying to you:

"I, Jesus, take thee, sinner, to be My Bride. And I do promise and covenant before God The Father and these witnesses, to be thy loving and faithful Saviour and Bridegroom; in sickness and in health, in plenty and in want, in joy and in sorrow, in faithfulness and in waywardness, for time and for eternity.18"

Just as the proposal that the Jewish bridegroom made could be accepted or rejected, so Christ's proposal to you can be accepted or rejected. If you reject it throughout this lifetime, then you never will be rightly related to Jesus Christ. The tragic result will be that you will spend eternity separated from God and Christ in the eternal lake of fire (Rev.20:11-15).

If, however, you accept Christ's proposal, then your sins will be forgiven, and you will enter into that relationship that makes you part of His Bride, the Church. In addition, you will go to be with Him when He comes to take the Church, and you will remain with Him forever in great blessing. The way in which you can accept Christ's proposal is quite simple. If you sincerely believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He came to this earth, died for your sins and rose from the dead, then respond to Him as follows:

"I, sinner, take Thee, Jesus, to be my Saviour. . . And I do promise and covenant before God and these witnesses to be Thy loving and faithful Bride; in sickness and in health, in plenty and in want, in joy and in sorrow, for time and for eternity.19"

The rest of the analogy does seem to make sense, however, I'm still a bit sceptical about it in light of the part that is clearly wrong. I'd have to study it out a bit more, and maybe others here would be able to shed some more light on the subject.

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2021, 10:41:24 PM »
I've heard this "Jewish wedding tradition" also, while I was going to leavened church buildings. Probably Calvary Chapel.
Though the symbolism is interesting it is completely extra-biblical. And that's a problem.
There are many actual marriages taking place in scripture, but not one of them depicts this "tradition".
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it is impossible for this tradition to have ever existed. I'm saying that if the Holy Ghost wanted us to apply some old Jewish tradition to a Christians relationship to Christ we would, no doubt, see it in the Bible, and we don't.
I'm here to tell you guys that this is dangerous. Taking extra-biblical (ie, unbiblical) stuff and applying to Gods words is a sure path into false doctrine.

I only skimmed over the text Jeanne cut and pasted and I found major false doctrine.
It said that Jesus "paid the price" for our sin.
I know that A LOT of popular preachers and evangelists say that, but it isn't true.
The price for our sin is an eternity in Hell and the Lake of Fire. Jesus endured scourging, crucifixion and physical death. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Obviously Jesus did something completely different. He made an atonement so our sins could be FORGIVEN, not "paid for", as leavened preachers like to say.
Jesus came to shed his blood as an atonement for all of mankind, just as the shedding of blood in the sacrificial system under the Old Covenant was to be an atonement for the nation of Israel.

All the symbology a Christian needs for understanding his relationship with Christ is contained in His words. If you don't see it there you should set it aside.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 10:45:16 PM by Kenneth Winslow »
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2021, 11:14:22 PM »
I think you make a very good point there which I may not have considered because we have to be careful how we say these things since so many cults teach false doctrines. For example, Joyce Meyer teaches that Jesus went to hell and had demon torture Him. The Bible never says that, and the idea is ridiculous. In short, I suppose saying that "Jesus paid for our sin," would mean that Jesus would have to be in hell for eternity, and that is nonsense.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

anvilhauler

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2021, 11:20:36 PM »
I only skimmed over the text Jeanne cut and pasted and I found major false doctrine.
It said that Jesus "paid the price" for our sin.
I know that A LOT of popular preachers and evangelists say that, but it isn't true.
The price for our sin is an eternity in Hell and the Lake of Fire. Jesus endured scourging, crucifixion and physical death. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Obviously Jesus did something completely different. He made an atonement so our sins could be FORGIVEN, not "paid for", as leavened preachers like to say.
Jesus came to shed his blood as an atonement for all of mankind, just as the shedding of blood in the sacrificial system under the Old Covenant was to be an atonement for the nation of Israel.

All the symbology a Christian needs for understanding his relationship with Christ is contained in His words. If you don't see it there you should set it aside.

Looking at the Word of God though, it would seem that we are purchased and a price has been paid for our redemption.

1 Corinthians 6 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.


1 Corinthians 7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant. 23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.


For those who didn't want the price to be paid by the blood of Christ their place is in the fire that was prepared for the Devil and his angels.

I am open for discussion if anything I have written is incorrect and all discussions on scripture are always open for further discussion so that we can all learn together.  I look forward to reading the comments from the other elders on the topic.  This is in no way a dig at you Kenneth, it is an interesting topic and as a church we do love delving in to doctrines.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

anvilhauler

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2021, 11:28:16 PM »
I think you make a very good point there which I may not have considered because we have to be careful how we say these things since so many cults teach false doctrines. For example, Joyce Meyer teaches that Jesus went to hell and had demon torture Him. The Bible never says that, and the idea is ridiculous. In short, I suppose saying that "Jesus paid for our sin," would mean that Jesus would have to be in hell for eternity, and that is nonsense.

But that does bring up the interesting topic of the enormity of what Jesus suffered on the cross when He took upon Himself the suffering due to all of mankind.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2021, 11:56:51 PM »
Looking at the Word of God though, it would seem that we are purchased and a price has been paid for our redemption.
No doubt.
We, as born again Christians, and the saints throughout time, have been paid for by the blood of Christ.  The immeasurable cost of The Atonement has been paid.  The only thing missing for salvation of the lost is repentance and faith. With that sins would be remitted.

However, when someone says that Jesus paid the price for our sin, or the sin of all mankind, then the gospel makes no sense.  Everyone would be freed from any punishment for sin.  There would be nothing left for God to punish sinners for if the price of everyones sin had already been paid.  Or God would be unjust for punishing someone who had already had his crimes "paid in full" for.

Nonetheless, my broader point remains.
Applying unscriptural analogies or traditions to Biblical concepts will lead to unscriptural (ie, false) doctrines.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

anvilhauler

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2021, 12:48:50 AM »
Nonetheless, my broader point remains.
Applying unscriptural analogies or traditions to Biblical concepts will lead to unscriptural (ie, false) doctrines.

 :D Yes, I agree 100%, I don't like discussions of traditions if they don't have a Biblical basis.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

creationliberty

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2021, 02:19:22 AM »
I would point out that the price was paid for us. Jesus bought us. He did not buy our sin, otherwise, He would receive sin as a product for the cost. So until I see something in Scripture that contradicts it, I have to agree with Kenneth.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
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Jeanne

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Re: Canaanite wedding
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2021, 02:53:03 AM »
Thank you, Chris. That was what I was thinking, but didn't quite know how to phrase it. I wasn't quite sure how to put it that Jesus paid the price for us, but not our sin.