Greetings.

[Alithis]

Hi all. My name is Michael ( Mike) .
I cant say i know too much about this group /forum yet.
Part of my joining is out of curiosity and because i do like to question for clarification at times.

I was raised in Pentecostal circles ( and I do say that to make a distinction from the more modern Charismatic movement) as a teen i was anything but Christian and still dont like to use that title of myself . I prefer disciple of JESUS ,defined as one who is learning by revelation and practice to become like the master.
At age 21 i got baptized in water but only with an intellectual repentance and though i continued to be a sunday club adherent i was bound in much sin.
This led to a falling away because those who are not of the faith go out from it.
Many years later the lord brought me to repentance in the fullness of it. A little later through a powerful dream he had my wife and i get baptised in water in Faith.earlier the same day we both experienced a traumatic experience of devils being driven out from us. Known habitual and willfull sin ended .
Some months later we left our jobs, sold up , got untangeld from the world and from religious traditions and went out to work in the things Jesus said to do. We set out with zero backing of any man made organization. Since then have seen life happen wonderfully with God supplying miraculously. People healed, devils cast out , people baptized in water, and baptised in the Holy Spirit spontaniously bursting out in praise and tongues.Whom we then , if they are willing, teach to do the same thing .All without ANY Association with the Sunday or Saturday organizations people mostly refer to as church.
Its a difficult life and at the same time so joyous.
   Of course iv just abbreviated a very long story
But it is so .
Hope it covers who I am enough and where im coming from im my questions/comments.

God bless.
Mike.

[creationliberty]

Hey Mike; I'm not sure what you mean "baptized in water" "through a powerful dream" -- such a thing does not exist in Scripture.

I also don't know what you personally mean by "tongues." I hope you would be willing to take the time to clarify those things for me so I can understand. Thanks.

[Alithis]

Sure.#1. It was through a very strong direct dream ( the most common way through out the entire scripture that God speaks to people) that he instructed us to get baptised in water. Doing so was simply obedience. Through it he does much

And tongues..  You know like acts chapter 2 and through out the some 20 plus years it covers. They got baptised in the holy Spirit as promised to all repentant believers, and they spoke in other languages as the spirit gave utterence.

What is a great source of joy to us is to observe this occur.
We cant make it occur . God keeps his word.
Praise God i believe his word. His living word JESUS and his recorded written word .they always agree.

[creationliberty]

So did you say it wrong in the first post? You said: "through a powerful dream he had my wife and i get baptised in water" -- that leads me to believe you claim to be baptized in (i.e. through) a dream. Are you now saying that you had a dream, and that led you to be baptized in reality?

I am not sure what you mean by speaking in tongues. For example, is it in line with the following link?
Speaking in Tongues vs Charismatic Gibberish

[Alithis]

Yes. As i said , through a dream the lord led us to be water baptised. Remember i did say its a very short version.. To tell it in explanatory detail would take a book 😄.

And re tongues.
Yes i read that article you link to.
I wasnt too concerned.
The article is opinion.quite patchwork in approach.makes some assumptions then presents them as fact. When they are not fact. I was a bit dissapointed by that .
And the scripture is scripture.
I just stick to the scripture.
I cant cause people to spontaneously break into
Speaking a new language .
We pray " lord JESUS please baptize this person in your Holy Spirit of promise - in Jesus name.
And that happens.

But thats not the central focus of a disciples life.
When it becomes the central focus people fall into all manner of error.
I note an amazing correlation between the charasmatics of today and the congregations of the corinthians. The Corinthians displayed all the spiritual gifts. That obvious.but they did not balance it with the way they lived thier lives.( tongues or any of the attributes of the same holy Spirit has never been a validation of a persons behaviour) they were unruly and continued waljng in the carnal mind. Squabbling and bickering in contentions.
Just like charismatic today . so busy focussing on manifestations of spirit that they develope no Godly character .
Then on the other side are people who focus so much on the written word they dont get to know the one the written word is speaking about.
In truth there is a narrow way between the two extremes.
A difficult narrow path and few there be that find it.
One side is all about spirit.with a lack of the witness of the word.
The other side is all about the word, with a lack of the witness of the Holy Spirit.
Both then make error. Because the witness of TWO is true.
Not only one.

[Timothy]

"The article is opinion.quite patchwork in approach.makes some assumptions then presents them as fact. When they are not fact. I was a bit dissapointed by that .
And the scripture is scripture.
I just stick to the scripture."

People have said things like that before about many doctrines and teachings, saying it's just opinion. But they often don't give examples and explain why it's just opinion and why it is wrong. What in the article was opinionated or incorrect? Just saying it's wrong isn't going to convince anyone that what you believe is right especially since you didn't give any Scripture to back it up. If you say to stick with the Scripture, why didn't you give us Scripture? There was plenty of Scripture in the article and as far as I could tell, it's accurate and well explained. Just saying it's wrong doesn't make it incorrect. You have to back up your claims. Can you give us a few examples of what is wrong in the article?

"Many years later the lord brought me to repentance in the fullness of it."

Can you explain what happened when you came to repentance at this point. What do you say it means to repent?

[creationliberty]

The article is opinion.quite patchwork in approach.makes some assumptions then presents them as fact. When they are not fact. I was a bit dissapointed by that .
And the scripture is scripture.
I just stick to the scripture.
I cant cause people to spontaneously break into
Speaking a new language.

Okay, that's what I needed to know. I thought your posts were very strange, even the first one, which is why I wanted to ask some questions to clarify. You speak in a very aloof (i.e. distant) manner in which you seem to hold yourself above others, which is quite contrary to Scripture and the church (Phil 2:3), and it made me cautious very quickly; furthermore, your second post only served to increase my caution.

I pointed out the error of your sentence, in which you first indicated that you had been baptized in a dream instead of in reality, and instead of just answering that, you IMMEDIATELY made an excuse for yourself first BEFORE you addressed the point. That typically indicates someone who claims they have "godly sorrow," but in their hearts, they are actually lifted up in pride. Now, in your particular case, based on what you have told us so far, it seems that you have lifted yourself up in pride because you trust the feelings of your heart more than the Scripture.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
-Jeremiah 17:9
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26
(i.e. a fool in Scripture is someone who cannot be reasoned with)

It's amazing to me that you thought that none of us would see through what you're saying, namely that, you make smile emojis while you offer up back-handed slaps with your words. For example:
Yes i read that article you link to.
I wasnt too concerned.
That is, you read the Scripture, and were not rebuked for your false religious practices because you believe your feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Spirit. And since you FEEL like you are Spirit-driven, therefore, you cannot be reasoned with from the Scripture (which is one of the reasons you do not use it to prove your points, which is what Tim just pointed out to you).

Furthermore:
And the scripture is scripture.
I just stick to the scripture.
I might have ignored such a comment from someone who actually offered up a Biblical defense for his position, but you did not offer anything. You just gave us your vague, lazy opinion, and then hypocritically called my research, study, and teachings in Scripture an "opinion." At the very least, that shows us that you do not take us seriously at all. In the context of the conversation, what you actually said was: "Chris, I read your teaching, and I can tell you don't follow Scripture like I follow Scripture," which is more of that arrogance. Do you speak which such a heart of superiority with other people in your everyday life? I would hope to God that you don't, but there are two important things I want you to understand:

1. That arrogance is pride, and God does not give His grace to the proud of heart:
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
-Jms 4:6

2. We stick to the Scripture, meaning that we do not follow our dreams and feelings when they contradict the Word of God:
The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
-Pro 15:28

This does not mean we are righteous of ourselves, but those who have been imputed righteousness by Jesus Christ (Rom 4:11) are expected to study to answer these matters, not just blow them off when it doesn't match the narrative of your personal feelings.

I already anticipated that you believe in some wild things based on your first post, but I had to ask questions to clarify because I did not want to assume; however, you have already given me more than enough. For example, you said "I cant cause people to spontaneously break into speaking a new language," and that already tells me that not only do you believe that you speak in strange, unknown languages (i.e. baby gibberish, or more aptly, Satanic gibberish), but that you believe that the Scripture teaches that you are to be speaking in languages that are not (or cannot) be known to men. I would like to see your Scriptural backing for that because I already disproved that in the teaching you said you read.

We pray " lord JESUS please baptize this person in your Holy Spirit of promise - in Jesus name. And that happens.
Interesting. How do you tell the difference between someone who is faking it and someone who is not? I already know the answer to that question, and it's not based on that Scripture you said you "stick to."

But thats not the central focus of a disciples life.
Hmm. But you did think it was important enough that you had to mention it in your introduction post, while you failed to tell us very simple things like, how you found us, or why you are here. You tell us you "stick to the scripture" while at the same time saying in your first post that, "as a teen i was anything but Christian and still dont like to use that title of myself," despite the fact that the Scripture says:
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
-1Pe 4:16

I keep seeing contradiction after contradiction with your words, which means you likely will not enjoy your time here because we would have to rebuke you in many of your posts. The reason for that is because your heart is corrupt in some manner, which is apparent by the words you speak.
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18

But of all these red flags, the biggest one is this:
Then on the other side are people who focus so much on the written word they dont get to know the one the written word is speaking about.
This points out not only your ignorance of what the Word of God is, but also your overt hypocrisy based on what you have told us so far. First of all, if a man wants to know God, then He needs to hear from God, and God provided His Word through his prophets so that mankind can know him. If you are unable to understand that concept, I am not sure I can help you.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Rom 10:17

So not only do you contradict the Scripture, and not only is this a (if I may be so blunt to say) pathetic excuse to give you an back-door exit when you are caught in a Biblical contradiction, but furthermore, it destroys your own argument:
And the scripture is scripture. I just stick to the scripture.
Obviously, you don't stick to the Scripture because of what you just said. If a man presents you with a Biblical argument against what you already presume to believe is true, you simply call it his "opinion," and then say that that man is just not "getting to know the one the written word is speaking about," as a quick excuse to justify yourself.

After so many years of doing this, it has become relatively easy for me to tell when someone is here to learn, grow, and fellowship (which is what this forum was created for), versus when someone comes here to argue in strife. You came here for the latter, did you not? You already knew there were seriously Biblical disagreements, but came here anyway in deception by trying to appear that we are all in agreement, instead of just being open in honesty with everyone about your intentions. I want to make is abundantly clear to you that we are not here to pet your pride, and our purpose is not to accept you as brethren just because you claim to believe on Jesus, or just because you claim to have godly sorrow because I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that:

Your tears of baby gibberish are NOT the equivalent of repentance, and the feelings of your heart are NOT the equivalent of the Holy Spirit.

If you want to hang on to Pentecostal traditions, you are free to do so, but you will not be like-minded with us because those are corrupt traditions based on false prophets. Christians do what Jesus told us to do:
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
-Mat 3:10
You need to cast off the traditions of men because they will do you no good. They only serve to work against the Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
-Mark 7:13

Departing from the Pentecostal religion does not automatically make one born again in Jesus Christ.

[Alithis]

shrugs..
You've misconstrued most of what iv said.
Misunderstood most of it.
Then misrepresented it in quite a dishonest and saddening manner.

After all i said .." Through a dream the lord caused us to be baptized in water"
Any one reading that can ascertain that it means ( as i already clarified) that God spoke to us through a dream and led us to go and get baptised in actual physical water .
In the bible joseph and mary were warned through andream... Same language type. But you twisted my words to created a false accusation. Tut tut.

So i never bothered to read it all .

because when a post starts by making so many incorrect assumptions.then presents a misrepresentation through dishonesty.
 Its only going to get worse.

I joined the forum out of curiosity. And as i said-  to ask questions for clarification.
I now have that clarification.
This website  ,the more i read of it, is a contradiction of itself.
I.e- you said i sound aloof...as you misrepresent my words then put yourself aloof. 😆 i do laugh . It is a double standard.
If i sound aloof its because i have no need of your approval. .
I live life in Jesus . i attend no sunday organisation.
I hear and obey JESUS.


So i will leave you to it and I will continue to obey JESUS

 

ps .in case you were so busy typing before you read.
I Did NOT bother to read what you posted . nor will i .

*wave*

[creationliberty]

shrugs..
You've misconstrued most of what iv said.
Misunderstood most of it.
Then misrepresented it in quite a dishonest and saddening manner.

I already knew you would say that because it was obvious that you do not want to be held accountable for what you say, and that's because you do not have interest in that kind of Scripture:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36
Your "shrug" summed it all up: You don't care about what you say.
Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
-Ecc 5:2

After all i said .." Through a dream the lord caused us to be baptized in water"

That puts us at a point where I am very close to banning you because I am not going to suffer you lying to everyone.
Here is what you said: "through a powerful dream he had my wife and i get baptised in water"

Any one reading that can ascertain that it means ( as i already clarified) that God spoke to us through a dream and led us to go and get baptised in actual physical water .
In the bible joseph and mary were warned through andream... Same language type. But you twisted my words to created a false accusation. Tut tut.

You just lied about what you said, took no responsibility for your own words, then false accused me of lying. Is there any reason I should not just ban you now and get it over with?

So i never bothered to read it all .

Don't know what you mean by that; you write in sentence fragments. You do not finish full thoughts.

because when a post starts by making so many incorrect assumptions.then presents a misrepresentation through dishonesty.
 Its only going to get worse.

Well, if you don't deceitfully hide what it is you really believe (even though you knew beforehand), and if you don't lie about what you're saying, then we won't have to make assumptions. However, these are not assumptions; there are deductions and discernment based on the evidence you presented to us, so don't try to fool other people into thinking that you're justified.

I joined the forum out of curiosity. And as i said-  to ask questions for clarification.

That sounds like another lie because (and forgive if I'm wrong) I do not recall reading one question from you.

I now have that clarification.
This website  ,the more i read of it, is a contradiction of itself.

How convenient for you. Suddenly, when you're rebuked and presented with the Scripture, my ministry (and this forum) are suddenly an offense. Hmm.
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
-Gal 4:16

I.e- you said i sound aloof...as you misrepresent my words then put yourself aloof. 😆 i do laugh . It is a double standard.

Do you not understand the definition of aloof?

If i sound aloof its because i have no need of your approval. .
I live life in Jesus . i attend no sunday organisation.
I hear and obey JESUS.

I've yet to see any evidence of that, so I'm sorry, but I cannot trust you on that one. You hate correction.
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10

So i will leave you to it and I will continue to obey JESUS

Which, I already showed you that you are not doing, but you don't care because what you call "jesus" is your own personal feelings. I can assure you, the false god of your personal feelings will NOT save you.

ps .in case you were so busy typing before you read.
I Did NOT bother to read what you posted . nor will i .

So you lied because, if you did not read my post, how did you know to debate about the word 'aloof'? What reason do you have to accuse me of "dishonesty" if you did not read my post? You lie and lie, but the pride of your heart blinds you to the fact that you've lied at least three times in this post alone. Where is that repentant heart you claim to have?
Furthermore, I didn't suspect you would read my post anyway because you don't follow Scripture:
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
-Pro 18:13

So much for that "scripture" you said you stick with because as soon as I showed it to you, you ran away. That tells me everything I needed to know, and again, I could see evidence of that from your first post. (Thank God for his blessings of discernment.) I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the coming week, and I hope you have a great day.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9

[Jeanne]

Well, he did say at the end of his last post that he was leaving. I was wondering if he would lie about that, too, and try to come back and have the last word like so many others of his kind have done in the past once you rebuked him again. I would have banned him myself if he had done that, so it's probably a good thing that you went ahead and did it before he had the chance.