Jesse, thank you for your forthcoming manner. I expected that would be your response, and it does help me be able to discern the matter more easily, so I always appreciate it when men like yourself are more open with their real attitude and words, instead of standing on pretense.
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18Your introduction post was rather odd, and I figured this would be your attitude before I responded to you, but I decided to be patient and wait to see what you would do first. It is obvious that you did not come here to learn and fellowship, but rather, you came to debate and tell everyone what you want them to believe. Again, I could see this in your first post. Therefore, I have no interest in responding to you further (because it would be endless debate with a hypocrite), but I will address everyone else so they can understand why your introduction was so strange.
If you all look at Jesse's post as a whole, you will notice that half of his introduction post is arguing about the term 'Christian'. As soon as I saw this, I knew this man had no intention to fellowship with us, and I figured he would likely leave upset. If you look at other introductions written by those who have been born again in Christ, they have come forward to tell us a lot about themselves and what Christ has done for them because they are excited to share those things, but with Jesse, it was very... hmm... the only way I know how to describe it is "cookie-cutter," meaning that he was just going through the motions of a "testimony" rather than giving an actual testimony.
Go read these two introductions, and the subsequent posts made in them, and then compare it to Jesse's thread, and you should see clearly what I mean:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1137.msg9189#msg9189http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1140.msg9225#msg9225In the first half of his post, it was like he was making a lot of effort to say all the keywords and phrases that he thought we would expect from a Christian in order to be accepted as brethren. In other words, he was so focused on "saying the right thing," and just giving his testimony of what Christ had done for him. So much of what he wrote was just repeating what I had said in some of my teachings, almost as if he was just now learning these things, even though he claimed to have been saved and understood them 22 years ago (i.e. 4 years longer than I have been saved). He gave absolutely
NO personal details whatsoever, which was very odd.
Furthermore, there were certain phrases he used that did not make sense. For example:
"So, I set my heart to seek Him in truth. I didn't want to see His hands. I wanted to seek to know Him."I suspect that, without him explaining what that means, there is likely no one here who understands what he was trying to say by that. If any of you read that and understood it before you read my post here, let me know.
Other things Jesse said put me on guard. For example:
"In my discovery of the deceptions in the institutions of men, I have found articles on this platform that are in harmony with what I had learned"Essentially, it is not that Jesse is looking to Scripture to see what is in accord with the Word of God, but rather, he is comparing what I write to "what he had already learned," like his thoughts and opinions, before accepting what I write. Therefore, his words tend to show that he holds the opinions of his own mind in higher regard than Scripture.
Then, the rest of his post was arguing that Christians should not be called Christians, while hypocritically quoting 2 Timothy 3:16, to make everyone think that he gives honor to God's Word. His argument came from etymology, not from Scripture, however, when being addressed on the Scripture, rationally and respectfully, he lashed out, which is exactly what I expected him to do.
Instead of responding with Scripture, he responds in an all-caps rage. Part of the reason I suspected he might do this is because this is very common with those who are part of "conspiracy ministries," and you will notice that he did not depart from his church building for doctrinal reasons, separating himself from the leaven, but rather, he departed because of things like 501c3, which shows me that he is likely more political in nature than looking to Scripture. I was unsure about that at first, but his responses provided some evidence of that.
Even the way he wrote "US-26-501(c)3" was odd because no one has ever come to this forum (or any email I have received) talking about 501c3, and wrote out "US-26-501(c)3" in that way. They just say "501c3." It was as if Jesse was trying to be overly official in some way to appear more intellectual? I'm not sure about that either, but there were tons of little things like that which did not seem... normal. I don't know how else to describe it, except... odd.
Without knowing more about Jesse personally, I don't think I could conclude a whole lot. All I know is that, based on his email address on his account, he goes by the username "jesseathleanx," and "Athlean" seems to be a body building workout series/products. At this point, he likely won't reveal anymore about himself because he does not want anyone to know, which is why he did not provide hardly any details in his original post.
Concerning his responses to Tim, he claims that all three times in the Bible, the word 'Christian' is "
attributed to them by the heathen," and in order to believe that, Jesse would have to believe that Peter was a heathen. So either his statement is wrong, or Peter was nothing more than a pagan, which would make Peter's letters in the Bible a lie.
Jesse expressed his offense against me by saying, "
This is the way in which you 'welcome' a born again believer," but first of all, based on his attitude, I have no idea if he was born again or not because he gave a long list of impersonal, cookie-cutter sentences about coming to repentance, and yet, he has not yet expressed any such thing in his writing; all the evidence of his words is pointing in the opposite direction, showing wrath and strife, rather than meekness and temperance:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
-Galatians 5:19-24But worse still is that he is accusing me of "welcoming" him in the wrong way, when Jesse was the one who bought up the topic. He wants to shift the focus of everyone's attention on to my response, that he can take everyone's focus away from the fact that he chose to write his introduction on that topic; thus, I simply responded to what Jesse decided to write about.
While I was typing all this out, there has been contention that Jesse has been aiming at Tim, and also, everyone else on the forum, in which Jesse has already begun to accuse all of you of being in a religious cult. However, that is unsurprising because we have seen this many times before (just as Christ and His disciples were accused of the same thing from those who claimed to be believers), and I already see the pattern where we are probably going to have to ban Jesse because he is already breaking forum rules and he has barely been here for a day.
The hypocrisy was the thing that a little shocking, and I will give you all an example. If you read my post, you will notice that I said:
"I do not care about your ability to explain etymologies when the Bible gives us other details."Anyone can see, in the context of what I said, I had no concern about what a man claims he can say about definitions of words when the Bible tells us something and defines what it means.
Though my meaning was obvious to any reader, and I spelled it out clearly, Jesse attempted to cherry pick four words I said out of its context and apply another meaning:
"Christopher, you said a lot when you said 'I don't care...' I can see that."What he was implying (very heavily) is that I do not care about what he says, nor do I care about correction and instruction, which is why he accused you all of being in a religious cult. However, when Tim brought up the problems with what Jesse was saying (which correlates with what I am writing here), Jesse responds:
"Context is everything."A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
-Jms 1:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
-Jms 4:8Well, context was
NOT everything to Jesse when he started to falsely accuse me. Context was
NOT everything to Jesse when we quoted Scripture to him. However, suddenly context becomes important when Jesse wants to justify his sinful attitude and words, having no fear of God that he will be held accountable for everything he says.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36So as we can see, after just a few posts, the hypocrisy and arrogance out of Jesse is profound, and he can go give his cookie-cutter, so-called "testimony" to as many people that will believe him if he wants, but I did not believe him from his first post, and I noticed that a lot of people here stayed very quiet, which usually only happens when they are discerning something is wrong as well.
