Author Topic: Hello Everyone  (Read 18508 times)

what2do

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Hello Everyone
« on: April 12, 2020, 12:00:13 PM »
The Lord got me about 6 years ago and it appears I am one of His lost sheep.  I've been a church hopper, a lone ranger Christian, and a mix of the two.  I thought I found a non501c3 church so I moved.  With this whole virus thing going I started feeling off and missed a service and the pastor said we can't have everyone stop attending service because they have a sniffle.  Today I called a member and I said I am not comfortable attending services until further notice.  He told me I am entering dangerous waters.  The conversation got heated and I simply said God isn't going to strike me dead for not attending church.

I say that to say that I can't help but notice things.  I see when a father wacks his son on the back of his head during service.  I hear when a member tells me I better check with the pastor before I accept a job with the local county assisting domestic violence victims because those agencies are unGodly.  I hear when a pastor is quoting single scriptures from all over the place.  I don't see anywhere in God's word where I am commanded to attend church services and certainly not where I place it in such a high place that if someone decides not to come that I tell them they are in danger.  I do see where I am filled with His Spirit and He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.  I also see congregating and yoke fellowship.  I also see the church being the ground and pillar of the truth.

I have so many questions.  Churchianity has never scratched my itch.  Pure religion is remaining unspotted from the world and caring for the widows and orphans.  Defiled (hahah I typoed as Deviled) religion is all about the outside and putting on a show.  I want the real life that the Lord Jesus Christ paid the price for us to live and yes I understand (at least have a little understanding) what that means.

When the Lord first got me I ended up in a WOF NAR charasmatic church.  The church I have been attending the past few months is an unregistered baptist (although I think more IBF) but those are just labels.  I want to believe that I am a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Yes I desire for true yoke fellowship, however, I hope that I desire the Truth more.  Can one have both?  I think I have experienced both at times...

I said I would be a part of this church and now I am wondering...  There are boys and girls watching me.  By attending I am voting that I support the church.  I am very concerned about some things - mostly how I have been left to feel after exercising my freedom of conscience which is something they claim to hold dear.  I just have never felt the need to maintain the appearance of being a Christian. 

There was a day perhaps exactly 6 years ago in which the Spirit of God brought me to tears over all the things I had done... 

Eric

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 03:22:00 PM »
I was raised catholic and at the age of 18 stopped attending mass every week (attended only on pagan holidays to appease).  I got heavy into personal devlopement products, then new age, then hypnosis and all kinds of things trying to fix my broken state.  The more I tried the deeper I went and nothing worked.  The devil tried taking my life in 12/13 but The Lord Jesus Christ stepped in and got me a few months later.  He set me free of the fear of man (seeking validation and approval from others), drunkenness, and fornication.

anvilhauler

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 05:09:41 PM »
Hi Eric

Have you read the article that Chris wrote titled:

Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
https://http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php

What you have written hasn't really given any indication that you are wanting God's forgiveness of sin through Christ out of a deep seated knowing that you have both been born into sin and also committed sins of your own that are grieving to a pure and holy and loving God.

You might even find it best to read through the article a number of times and also read the other articles too.


Wishing you all the best

Kevin
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2020, 05:47:29 PM »
Howdy Kevin,

I went through it the other day and it provided a lot of validation for me.  For sure I might go through it again and go through some more of the teachings.  I acknowledge I could have done a better job of writing my introduction.

I am in my mid 40's and transitioning into a career in IT (although I love teaching).  I love meeting new people from different cultures as well as traveling.  I believe that at least 90% of professing Christians are deceived and most are willfully blind regarding how evil operates within a lot of buildings called churches.  I believe that the Holy Spirit draws His by convicting of sins and this creates a genuine grief and sorrow over sins in the person and the person will see The Lord Jesus Christ as the only way to be reconciled to their Heavenly Father.  Conviction of sin leads to genuine repentance which leads to beginning to see things Gods way, a new heart, and a desire to serve God and be used by Him in the ministry of reconciliation.  Seeing my identity in Christ transformed my life.  I joined here in the hopes that I might get answers to things I have been wondering and be an encouragement to others.


creationliberty

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2020, 06:01:18 PM »
What you have written hasn't really given any indication that you are wanting God's forgiveness of sin through Christ out of a deep seated knowing that you have both been born into sin and also committed sins of your own that are grieving to a pure and holy and loving God.
I have to agree with Kevin, even after Eric's responses. I see a man who has moved around a lot of denominations, but nothing testifying of repentance and faith in Christ. Basically, Eric is bouncing around topics so much, it's difficult to follow anything he's saying.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

strangersmind

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2020, 06:51:02 PM »
When Eric said.       "There was a day perhaps exactly 6 years ago in which the Spirit of God brought me to tears over all the things I had done..."  would this indicate repentance? 

Eric can you explain what you mean when you said Jesus got you?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 07:01:20 PM by strangersmind »

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2020, 07:03:07 PM »
Christopher,

I would agree but what is your purpose in pointing that out?

Do you expect everyone who goes here to be completely solid in all areas before commenting?

Was it part of the agreement to be a part of this forum that I must prove this?

I understand we are to be fruit inspectors but how is that to be done in an online forum as I or anyone else here can say whatever we want whether true or not?

What was your purpose in agreeing with Kevin rather than telling me directly what your issue with my posts are and what message were you trying to send to me and others by speaking around me?

It brings me no joy to say that you have shown zero compassion towards someone you know absolutely nothing about.,  We have all been though things and I thank the Lord for protecting and preserving me through it all (as well as others who have been through satanic ritual abuse).

Many of your teachings have been a blessing but what you have done here is ponce on someone.

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2020, 07:23:12 PM »
Sure.  He revealed Himself to me in a way that is undeniable.  I just remember seeing my Heavenly Father for the first time.  When I saw that He wanted to walk with me after everything I had done I saw His love and goodness.  When I understood that I was forgiven and God wanted to use me for His purposes it brought me to tears.  I told someone I believe God gave me a new heart because all the things I was chasing after became unimportant.  I had been thirsting for all kinds of things and now all I wanted was Jesus.  Then I saw Ezekiel 36:26 as well John 6:44 as well as Galatians 4:6.  I was adopted into God's family!  I was lost and in my sin and perversion He found me and saved me!  Thanks for showing an interest.

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2020, 07:28:47 PM »
Hey Billy.  I see you are from Philippines.  I was there for 14 months some years ago ministering.  I look forward to going back in the future!

anvilhauler

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2020, 07:53:38 PM »
Christopher,

I would agree but what is your purpose in pointing that out?

Do you expect everyone who goes here to be completely solid in all areas before commenting?

Was it part of the agreement to be a part of this forum that I must prove this?

I understand we are to be fruit inspectors but how is that to be done in an online forum as I or anyone else here can say whatever we want whether true or not?

What was your purpose in agreeing with Kevin rather than telling me directly what your issue with my posts are and what message were you trying to send to me and others by speaking around me?

It brings me no joy to say that you have shown zero compassion towards someone you know absolutely nothing about.,  We have all been though things and I thank the Lord for protecting and preserving me through it all (as well as others who have been through satanic ritual abuse).

Many of your teachings have been a blessing but what you have done here is ponce on someone.

Hi again Eric

No one was attacking you and there is plenty of leeway for people to get things wrong and to not be too sure about how to express themselves.

I like Chris' analogy that I have heard in the past about people thinking that God's salvation is like a free give away in a supermarket.  Would you like some free cheese and crackers.  Yes please!  People have accepted God's free gift of eternal life through Christ without understanding what repentance actually is.

A better way of seeing the situation might rather be that instead of seeing it as a free give away in the supermarket, see it as being a criminal who is standing before the parole board and being judged as to whether you are eligible for freedom.  A criminal might say, Oh I have changed my ways and when I'm back out in society I'm not going to do the things any more that caused me to be locked up and I'm going to be a model citizen in society.  Yep, that's great.  But the most pressing question would be and should be   ......   are you deeply grieved and sorrowful and full of remorse about the offending you have done.  If there is no sorrow and remorse for offending then the criminal should not be released.

I stand to be corrected on anything I have written here.

I can testify from my conversion that I never gave any thought that God could use me and I had no inner gooey feelings.  All I knew was that I was an offender against God and although my rightful punishment should have been to be thrown in the fire I was granted redemption through Christ's sacrifice.  In some ways I had it easier than some others because I became a Christian before I had ever set foot inside a "church".  As I was soon to find, the "churches" are full of people who have accepted Christ's forgiveness, but they accepted that without the deep seated shame and sorrow and remorse for the things they have done in life.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

creationliberty

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2020, 09:33:15 PM »
Christopher,

I would agree but what is your purpose in pointing that out?

Do you expect everyone who goes here to be completely solid in all areas before commenting?

Was it part of the agreement to be a part of this forum that I must prove this?

I understand we are to be fruit inspectors but how is that to be done in an online forum as I or anyone else here can say whatever we want whether true or not?

What was your purpose in agreeing with Kevin rather than telling me directly what your issue with my posts are and what message were you trying to send to me and others by speaking around me?

It brings me no joy to say that you have shown zero compassion towards someone you know absolutely nothing about.,  We have all been though things and I thank the Lord for protecting and preserving me through it all (as well as others who have been through satanic ritual abuse).

Many of your teachings have been a blessing but what you have done here is ponce on someone.
Okay, if you read carefully all the responses you have received so far, all of them are asking you questions to explain yourself because they cannot understand what you are saying. I decided to ask my wife to join me at the computer and turn away from the screen, and I read to her your introduction post, asking her to give her feedback on it.

Lorraine told me that, yes, it was confusing because you were doing something she called "stream of conscious" writing, which is a phrase I had never heard of, but I did understand the concept. It's basically when someone sits down at a keyboard (or with a pen and paper) and just writes the first thing that comes to their mind, letting their thoughts flow wherever they may; it's what authors typically do when they are coming up with a concept for poem or short story. The problem in doing "stream of conscious" writing when introducing yourself to someone is that we (i.e. your listening audience) are focused on gaining a comprehensive idea of who you are, where you came from, what you believe, and where you are headed, which takes a structure of explanation, and yet, what we got instead was a stream of random ideas that do not answer any of those questions for us very well.

Lorraine also said that it seems as though you are genuine, and have had some problems and hassles with church buildings. I could gather that somewhat too, although I do not yet know if we are on the same page because I had difficulty understanding what you are saying because of how you are structuring your thoughts and sentences.

Now, the reason I'm ignoring your questions is because you did not design these to be answered. If you will be honest with us, your questions were designed as accusations, not questions to be answered. Just because you put a question mark at the end of your sentences, it does not justify your accusations, and if you believe others should act with compassion and not to pounce on you, then don't act with zero compassion against someone you just met by  pouncing on them with rapid-fire accusations; rather, if you show us a better example, I think that would express the "encouragement" you said you wanted to share with everyone here.

I am sure most everyone here would appreciate it if you took the time to restructure your introduction, so we can understand where you are coming from. If you need some help with that, see this post:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0
There are examples of other Christians who have written good introduction posts, so that might help.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2020, 09:58:16 PM »
Ok Kevin.  I am glad there is plenty of room because the older I get the more I realize the less I know.  I have a problem with the Gospel being offered simular as the example of the cheese because God is not a vending machine and pretty much everyone would just say yes.  Jesus many times said discouraging things and every one of God's promises is conditional.  I agree with your examples.  True repentance will produce a change in ones actions just as someone who is genuinely sorry will make things right.  Actions truly do speak louder than words. 

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2020, 10:21:16 PM »
Fair enough Christopher.  Yes, your wife is correct and it's possible that you are right about my questions although I was sincerely wondering your purpose in agreeing with Kevin rather than talking to me directly.  I really appreciate what you (and your wife) did to try and gain a better understanding.  It really means a lot.  After your explanation, I understand how I have caused confusion.  I will come up with a structured introduction within the next 48 hours.  Little did I know I would be getting a lesson in English by posting 8)

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 11:09:22 AM »
As someone who has regularly doubted my salvation and started experiencing severe depression and anxiety, I will not be posting another introduction.  I am left believing that whatever I write will only be scrutinized and a response will come creating more doubt in my salvation experience.  That is not something I am going to risk subjecting myself to at this time.  Having said all of this I totally understand that a lot of communication is lost online.  I do appreciate everyone's time.  If the communication was in person it would likely be very different.  Take care everyone. 

creationliberty

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2020, 11:44:36 AM »
Okay, but for me that's three red-light warning signs going off in my mind. The first was the awkward way you were writing in which you could not just tell us about your conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ. I have never met a Christian that could not tell me something, even if it was simple.

The second was the fact that you got aggressive, offended, and somewhat murmuring with your accusations designed as questions when I simply said that your writing was confusing, and though many here have been quiet, I know that I am not alone; that others here were confused by what you were writing too.

The third is that you just lied. You gave your word to us that you would write a new introduction that told us your story with a better explanation, and now you lied on the way out.

We, as born again Christians, are scrutinized and doubted and railed against and backbiting and hated and many other things on a regular basis for simply telling the truth. If you were actually experiencing those things, I think being here with us would be a cake walk (i.e. very easy to do). We have a number of people who are members of this forum, and are members of our church, who are not great at writing, but they took the time (sometimes days, slowly on a separate document) to write out those things because they wanted (as you stated earlier) to be around others who wanted the truth, and wanted to be yoked together.

Every connection you make, even just registering for this forum, conveys information. That's why our spoken (or written) word is so important.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
-Mat 12:35-37
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 11:52:17 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2020, 08:43:48 PM »
Cool Christopher.  I'm grateful the red flags are mutual 8)  It's easy for anyone to hide behind the internet (and this is not directed at you but it is for anyone who chooses to read and listen).  For example, who are you or anyone else doing a similar thing accountable to?  My guess is you will say the Word of God, the Holy Spirit, or something similar and God gave you the authority to correct others (more like lording over others - God has not given anyone the authority to be the Holy Spirit for anyone else you are to speak God's word in love and let the Holy Spirit do the work).  It seems you are operating from your flesh instead of His Spirit.  I have heard you say that we are to submit ourselves to one another yet if I were to bring you the correction you will likely just blameshift or try and project your shortcomings on me so you can feel okay dismissing me thinking I am the problem.  Because God has given you some revelation it has gotten to your head and you are threatened by anyone that is not afraid of you so you resort to pointing out their flaws (Pharisees did the same thing) and communicating to them in a demeaning way.  I pray that God humbles you as pride cometh before a fall.  No question He has brought at least some revelation to you but I pray He kicks the pedal stool out from under you because you are doing tremendous damage to His sheep.  Thank God I know His word enough to know not to listen to just anyone.  I don't even know if you are a brother so why would I even listen to you and why are you even trying to correct me in the first place if you do not even know if I am a brother.  How foolish.  We know nothing about each others character and according to you, I am a liar because I changed my mind (abusers love saying that in an attempt to place false guilt and obligation on their targets).  You are using His word as a sword and beating others over the head which is spiritual abuse.  Anyone can say the things you have said like I operate more like a prophet (I haven't seen any fruit of that and how could anyone when you are online?)  Anyone can say that and try and bring correction to the church but there is no way of anyone knowing who is a wolf and who is not on the internet (but yes I agree you can get red flags).  This thread right here is a perfect example of why I believe forums or anything online cannot be His church.  NOWHERE in the Bible is anyone given authority to make judgments based on an online encounter.  It's impossible to follow Bible standards for rebuke and correction online and what you have done here is operate outside of God's authority because one is to correct first privately then gather a witness then rebuke before all and those principals cannot be followed online.  So many people love hiding behind the internet because they cannot be held to account.  God will hold everyone to account and I look forward to that day.  I pray that I never imply or attempt to make judgments without inspecting fruit over some time (which is impossible to be done online as anyone can pretend to be anything they want to be online especially when there is no video, etc - a mask always slips in person).  You sir remind me of the way I used to be then God humbled me and I realized that the Word of God is to be applied to my life first not used as a sword or a hammer on others.   You better be 100% certain of your approach as teachers receive greater condemnation and many teachers are railers.  Teachers are to edify so the devil loves when he can get a railer teaching because it scatters and/or oppresses His sheep.  Targets are easier prey when isolated.  May the Lord Jesus Christ shake the foundations around the world so every one of us realizes we are nothing without Him and He holds everything in His hands and may He repay everyone who has scattered, done damage to, or is doing damage to His sheep according to their deeds.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 09:13:43 PM by what2do »

zachshrader

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2020, 09:11:08 PM »
Proverbs 12:1- Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Proverbs 27:5- Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Chris just pointed out that you lied.  You told us that you were going to do something, and then went back on your word and didnt do it.  You said you pray that God humbles Chris, but I dont see any blatantly obvious pride in Chris here.  I do see pride in you Eric because you wont even acknowledge that you lied. Instead you make excuses because of your pride by basically saying that God wont hold you accountable of your word because this is online and the internet didnt exist when the Bible was written so therefore your typed words are not your real words.  Doesnt that seem silly?

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2020, 09:30:41 PM »
Wow, Eric, that last post just proved how little you know or understand about what Chris teaches. If you were truly born again and operating under the direction of the Holy Spirit yourself, you would know that Chris only points out these things because he cares about you and is concerned about your soul, not because he sees himself in a position of authority. From what I have seen so far from you, you are right to question your salvation. Those who are truly of Christ come here with a spirit of humility and eagerly seek the truth. They welcome correction; they don't come here with the attitude that they know it all and 'how dare we question anything they say?' You are acting exactly like all the other churchgoers you claim are hypocrites.

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2020, 09:42:25 PM »
LIA'R, noun [from lie.]

1. A person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who declares to another as a fact what he knows to be not true, and with an intention to deceive him. The uttering of falsehood by mistake, and without an intention to deceive, does not constitute one a liar.


God knows my intentions when I said I was going to write the new post in 48 hours and my intention was never to deceive anyone.  I planned on doing it and in fact started writing it.  After realizing what I explained earlier today I changed my mind.  EVERYONE is entitled to change their mind.  As soon as I knew I wasn't going to follow through on my word I acknowledged it and informed him.  That is called taking responsibility and being accountable. 

No it doesn't seem silly at all.  Nice try though.

So do you never change your mind?  I would find that hard to believe and holding others to a standard that you do not follow yourself is legalism/hypocritical.

EVERYTHING in God's kingdom is based on intentions.  I agree it is not good to say something and not follow though but without the intent to deceive it is not lying.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 10:17:19 PM by what2do »

what2do

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Re: Hello Everyone
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2020, 09:52:31 PM »
Jeanne,

I pray that his concern is genuine.  The truth is that abusers love to hide behind a mask of concern as well.  Chris's concern seems off (overbearing???) to me.  I don't think he would be coming down on people with God's word the way he has if he were truly concerned.

I don't know if you like to read but these are great books for anyone to read:

Red Flag Churches: Distinguishing Protection from Control
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse: Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within the Church
Unholy Charade: Unmasking the Domestic Abuser in the Church
A Cry for Justice: How the Evil of Domestic Abuse Hides in Your Church

May God bless and protect you in all your ways.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 10:11:25 PM by what2do »