(CORRECTION) Pre-Wrath Tribulation and Rapture

[creationliberty]

I renovated this small section of our teaching: Beginner's Guide to Tribulation & Rapture
I previously had said the Pre-Wrath teaching was in error, but Pre-Wrath is correct to Biblical doctrine. Here is the update:
The concept of "Pre-Wrath" isn't new; it's a new name to distinguish itself from other false doctrines. Pre-Wrath is actually Post-Trib, but there are a lot of people who have confused the seventh seal of God's wrath as part of the tribulation of the saints, and that's not what Scripture teaches.

Before I explain this, I want to apologize and correct my error a few years ago; teaching that Pre-Wrath was incorrect. The problem was that I listened to the arguments from men like Kent Hovind (who I rebuke today for his leaven and false doctrine in many areas), and the only argument he presented for the Pre-Wrath position was that Christians were not appointed to wrath:
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
-1 Thessalonians 5:9

This was not a sound argument alone because the Lord God can, and has, poured out his wrath on wicked people without touching one hair on the head of his elect. (e.g. The Exodus of the Jews from Egypt, the lamb's blood on their doors, etc.) However, the wrath of God on the Day of the Lord is a separate event from the tribulation of the saints and the rapture of Christians on Christ's return.
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
-Revelation 6:12-13

As we learned earlier in this teaching, the sun, moon, and stars going dark is one of the signs of Christ's return to rapture out His saints. Christ describes the persecution of the saints, and final antichrist declaring himself to be the Messiah in the temple.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
-Matthew 24:29-31

It should be noted that right after those verses, Christ tells them to learn the parable of the fig tree. You'll notice that the stars falling to heaven in Revelation 6 are described as "a fig tree," and so it seems God wanted everyone to be able to see and understand this as easily as possible.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
-Matthew 24:4

After this rapture happens (the bodily resurrection of the saints and all are seen to be taken up into heaven), God opens the seventh seal. There is a span of silence across the heavens for 30 minutes, then His wrath comes down hard and furiously on the unbelievers and false converts left behind in the world, and He does this through seven angels He sends one at a time.
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
-Revelation 8:1-2

So the tribulation of the saints and the wrath of the God are two separate events. The tribulation happens during seals 1-5, the sixth seal is the sign for the return of Christ, and after His return and rapture, then the seventh seal is the wrath of God on the world. Thus, Pre-Wrath is the same as Post-Trib, only that some people have chosen to give it a new name to distinguish it from a variety of false doctrines that have arisen over the past two centuries.

[davehenry]

Is it a common hazzard for ppl to get very irritated and/or angry or even mock when trying to have a discussion obout the timing of the rapture from pre-trib believers?

[creationliberty]

Yes, and Jesus told us why:
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
-Matthew 13:20-21
They are offended because they hate the idea of persecution or tribulation because of the Word of God. They want the happy-go-lucky, funtime, feel-good message only, and the false prophecy of pre-trib gives them that warm feeling inside where they don't think they'll have to suffer anything except the woes of how to have more faith when their dishwasher breaks down.
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
-John 15:20

[davehenry]

Thanks Chris,i asked for one verse that points to a pre-trib rapture on FB earlier and all I got was opinions and man made articles,which,quoted from that heretic Scofield reference bible and not one scripture there gave any pre-trib proof,2 Thessalonians 2,Matthew 24,Mark 13,Revelation 20:4,1 Corinthians 15:52 I brought up and went verse by verse through Matthew 24 explaining how it isn't for the Jews but it stirred a hornets nest and eventually had to delete who put up the sticker as more started to attack.It's very vexing seeing false prophecy being pushed to the saints but seems impossible to have a decent discussion over that one topic alone".
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you.Matthew 7:6

[Timothy]

I really like to go to 2 Thessalonians 2 to prove the post-trib doctrine. That's the chapter that really opened my eyes to the whole thing because I used to be pre-trib.. It clearly says that the day of Christ will not come until after the anti-christ appears, and the pre-trib cult hates that. One guy on YouTube who teaches pre-trib actually made the argument that 2 Thess. 2 supports a pre-trib rapture because of a comma in this part of verse 3: "...except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed...". He claims there is a pause in time after the falling away and before the anti-christ shows up...because there is a comma there.  And that's literally his argument.

I used to listen to people like Bryan Denlinger who are really into the pre-trib false prophecy and I can say that there is a lot of contention on the matter from their end. Not that I haven't seen it from the other side (Steven Anderson for example), but it's as if you even question the pre-trib doctrine you're likely to get scolded for it and get accused of being and 'Andersonite'.

[davehenry]

https://youtu.be/gQoR16TQXVU

I just thought i'd put this up if anybody would like to watch.So much of the pre trib position is taken directly from that Scofield reference bible.Joe Scheimmel isn't KJV only but the guy in the pre trib camp is and twists an enormous amount of scripture from it which is very sad to see,but the Jesuits have done exactly what they set out to to and so many are unprepared for what's to come.All we need is Matthewv 24:1-31,Mark 13:3-27,Luke 21:7-27 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 but it is made so complicated by so much twisting of God's word.

[Jeanne]

If you read Chris Belflower's articles on Daniel 9 and Matthew 24, you'll see that those events have already occurred. It took me a bit to wrap my head around that idea because I had always been taught that those were still yet to happen, but his arguments from Scripture are very sound.

[davehenry]

Yeah Matthew 24:2 has happened in 70AD.i have Chris's articles downloaded and will be going over them to glean from when i get round to my rapture study again as i'm going over my old studies.Looking forward to going over it to piece together the events linked to the subject also but not sure when it will be as my older studies are shortish and are increased in length considerably now.