What is the unforgivable sin?

[Wesley]

What is the unforgivable sin?


"Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

[Wesley]

I have read from differing view points that it is the following:

Claiming the holy spirit is doing act of evil in someone seems the most popular internet answer.

Some claim it is taking the mark of the beast in revelations.

Others still claim it is miscenation of different seed lines (black and white etc etc).

Catholicism claims multiple reasons....

Seeing as its is such an important sin to avoid why is their so much confusion over agreement on what the sin actually is?

[creationliberty]

Blaspheme is when you call that which is of God of the Devil.

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
-Mark 3:28-30

"They" in this context are the scribes, Pharisees, chief priests, and elders who, like church building leadership today, have tasted of the sweet things of the Holy Spirit of God, but turns around and calls Him (i.e. the Holy Spirit) of the Devil (i.e. an unclean spirit) when the truth is preached unto them (like when Steven did so in Acts 7, if you are listening to our audio downloads each week, we just finished covering that), and those things which are not the Holy Spirit of God, those things that are unclean, are said by these wicked men to be the Holy Spirit.

This is why I find those who are in the so-called "Speaking in Tongues" (a.k.a. Satanic gibberish) movements in such danger of hell fire. They are claiming that which is unclean to be the Holy Spirit of God, and I fear the Living God too much to do such a thing. All blasphemies against God and Christ are forgiven with the repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing) and grace through the blood of Christ, but God does not give remission of sins to those who call the Holy Spirit of God of the Devil because once they get to that point, they are so far gone, they will never be saved because their hearts have become too prideful and corrupt, and there is no chance for them to be humbled to repentance.

[anvilhauler]

I have read from differing view points that it is the following:

Claiming the holy spirit is doing act of evil in someone seems the most popular internet answer. ...

That does bring up the interesting discussion of whether God does evil.  The Biblical use of the word evil can be quite different in the way in which we use it today.  A typical example is here

Ezekiel 6 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. 9 And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations. 10 And they shall know that I am the Lord, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.

I had an anti-Christian acquantance comment to me a number of years ago that God does evil and my reply was "Yes He does, it even tells you that in the Bible".  My answer completely "took the wind out of his sails" and he was speechless and didn't know how to respond because he never thought I would dare say such a thing.

Hence sin and evil are two different things.

[hidals]

Webster dictionary 1828

Third definition:

3. Unfortunate; unhappy; producing sorrow, distress, injury or calamity; as evil tidings; evil arrows; evil days.

I believe this is the correct use of the word evil in Ezekiel 6:10 “And they shall know that I am the Lord, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.”
Ezekiel‬ 6:10‬ KJV‬‬

[Jeanne]

I recently took part in a discussion of this very topic on Facebook. The original poster (who is himself part of a 501c3 'ministry') posted the following quoting Arnold Fruchtenbaum:

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." -- Matthew 12:31

The complete context of the Unforgivable Sin (the Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) can only be found in Matthew 12:22-45. Based on this passage, it can be defined as:

THE NATIONAL REJECTION BY ISRAEL OF THE MESSIAHSHIP OF JESUS WHILE HE WAS PHYSICALLY PRESENT ON EARTH ON THE GROUNDS OF BEING DEMON-POSSESSED.

From this basic definition, three things can be noted:

1. This sin is unique to the Jewish generation of Jesus' day and cannot be applied to later Jewish generations. It was to that particular generation that the Messiah came physically, offering to establish the Messianic Kingdom and Himself as their Messianic King. It was also that specific generation that rejected Him.

2. It was a national sin, not an individual sin. It is not a sin that any person could commit today. The Bible makes it very clear that every sin is forgivable to the individual who will come to God through Messiah's blood; the nature of the sin is irrelevant. When Jesus died on the cross, He did not die just for some kind of sins and not for others; He died for every type of sin.

3. Although this was a national sin and not an individual sin, this is not a sin that some other nation could commit -- Jesus was never physically present with any other nation offering Himself as that nation's Messiah.

Because this sin was unforgivable, nothing could change the coming judgment. That judgment finally fell upon that particular Jewish generation in A.D. 70, when the Romans invaded the Land and utterly destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

Here is just my part of the discussion (with names removed):

(Comment on OP): Jeanne Theunissen The way I see it, what they did in blaspheming the Holy Spirit was to attribute His work to Satan, which actually can still be done. I believe the reverse could also be true in that attributing the works of darkness to the Holy Spirit is also blasphemy.

FB User1: Yes, we certainly can blaspheme. But, the sin in view here was not individual, but the national rejection of Christ by the Jewish leadership. They had a system to test potential Messiahs. They would send out men to examine all Messianic claims. And those claims had criteria to be fulfilled. Christ fulfilled them all, but the leadership refused to accept those claims and instead declared the miracles were done by the power of Satan. But it was a national sin, not an individual rejection and sin. All sin, even saying the works of God are of the devil, can be forgiven. There is no unforgivable sin today that can be committed by an individual that can't be covered by the blood of Christ. Even the leadership of that time who rejected Christ, if they turned and believed as an individual could be forgiven, but the national rejection would not be forgiven. In other words, the judgment of destruction of the Temple and nation would not be revoked. Matthew 12 must be read in context and understood under the context of the Law of Moses. The church did not exist at this point. In this present time under the Law of grace, all sins will be forgiven by those who turn and believe.

FB User 2: FB User 1,
(1John5:16,17.)
What is this mysterious 'sin leading to death' then ?

Jeanne Theunissen: FB User 1 Maybe, but I'd rather not chance it, would you?

FB User 1: FB User 2 Physical death is the death in view in 1John. A sin that leads to death, from the Jewish perspective, and John was a Jew, is a sin that was punishable by death under the both the Noaic Covenant and the Law of Moses. Murder, blasphemy, fornication, idolatry, and others. This is not a reference to spiritual death per-se.

FB User 1: Jeanne Theunissen What sin is the sin that will cause you to lose your salvation? What level of sin, and how many sins are going to make the blood of Christ of no effect in keeping you saved?

FB User 2: FB User 1,
you mean a sin that leads to execution by human authorities ?

FB User 1: FB User 2 It could include that, but what John has in view are the Laws that God gave, and how this relates to church governance in the present dispensation under grace.

Jeanne Theunissen: FB User 1 If a person is truly saved, NOTHING can separate him from the love of God. But remember, Jesus said that there would be MANY who would stand before Him at the judgement saying 'Lord, Lord, haven't we done all this stuff in your name?' And He will reply, 'Depart from me, ye who work iniquity. I never knew you.' Not, 'I knew you once, but you left'; 'I NEVER knew you' which means they were never saved to begin with.
https://http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/falseconverts.php

[Jeanne]

I tried to post another conversation I had with that same FB User 1 along with that but it ended up being too long so here's part 2:

(Comment on OP): Jeanne Theunissen This very same story is told in Luke 12. In everything Jesus says there, He is speaking to individuals. How is it that this one verse is all of a sudden speaking to the nation as a whole?

FB User 1: The men who Jesus was addressing were sent by the Sanhedrin, the ruling body of Israel. They reported to the high priest Caiaphas, whose name means "inquisitor." These men represented the nation, and had been following Jesus to test His claims for some time. They were sent to anyone that made claims, or seemed to have the potentiality of being the Messiah, to test them to see if it there was any validity. He wasn't suddenly speaking to the nation as a whole, he had been speaking to the nation all along when addressing these Scribes and Pharisees who followed him to test him. Everyone knew, in those days, about those men who were the arm of the inquisitor. This article goes into more detail. https://http://www.messianicassociation.org/ezine48-af-three...

Jeanne Theunissen Go read Luke 12:1 again: In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say *unto his disciples* first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Nothing in the following verses indicates a change in who is being addressed.

FB User 1: Jeanne Theunissen. The change is clear, after the leaders and those who followed the leaders rejected Him, he no longer spoke plainly to them, but in parables. He also never healed anyone again unless they had faith, because the nation had rejected His offer of the Kingdom, and the blasphemy was to bring a judgement that would not be forgiven. The word sin means offence, and does not just apply to individuals, and does not simply apply to persons here either, but is a legal term that applies to a group in this instance. Before this last fatal confrontation with the religious leaders, or the inquisitor's scouts, faith for healing was not required, and Jesus spoke clearly to the crowds with his teachings. He also did miracles for the thousands, such as dividing the loaves and fishes, which would not be done again for the mixed multitudes. This entire incident is about the nation, not an individual sin that can be committed today. The scripture is clear that under this present dispensation all sins can be forgiven. If you follow the book of Luke (this book that is the only gospel in chronological order, the others use an eastern style of writing mainly using vignettes, and strict order was not that important to the writers ) you will get the timeline of events in a linear stream in order to see this change in Jesus dealing with the nation. You quote rightly, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees as addressed to onlookers who went along with the Pharisees because that is the subject of the condemnation. When Luke was written there were no chapter divisions or verses so Luke 11 must be read too in order to understand who Christ is addressing here, which is mainly the leaders who were determined to reject Him, and again the leaders represent the national rejection of Christ.

FB User 1: Jeanne Theunissen also, hell was not in view here as Jesus spoke through Luke 11 and 12, but a physical judgement of the nation. It is similar to the judgement that was decreed on Israel under the reign of Manasseh king of Judah. He led the people into idolatry, and although he himself repented later in life, the national sin was so grievous, it would not be forgiven. 150 years later the temple was destroyed, and the Jews went into exile in Babylon as the prophets pronounced would happen. Again, the national sin of Israel would not be forgiven. But individuals would be forgiven, as Manasseh was. This is a similar judgement that Jesus is pronouncing. Even in the Talmud, they don't deny that Jesus did miracles among the people, but they stay with the pharisaical determination representing the nations rejection of her Messiah, that Jesus did these by the power of Satan. All those Jews, who were and are devoted to Talmudic studies over the centuries, and now blaspheme Yeshua by believing the Talmud over Scripture. Yet many of these grievous blasphemers, including Paul the Apostal (who believed the exact same thing as those Jesus was rebuking in Luke 11 and 12, before the Talmud was written down, yes Paul, who was a Pharisee among Pharisees), have turned and believed. Paul, was a blasphemer, and a persecutor of Christians...are you going to tell me by your definition on this that he was not saved? Again, Paul absolutely blasphemed the Holy Spirit according to your understanding of this, so that means he must be in hell?

Jeanne Theunissen: Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. 8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9 but he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Notice it says unto HIM that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost, not THEM. That tells me that it's an INDIVIDUAL sin and not necessarily that of a group or nation. Obviously, this is a sin that would be committed by someone who is NOT of Christ, however. There comes a point in a person's life when they are so far gone that God will not allow them to come to repentance and be saved as per Romans 1.

FB User 1: 42 "But woe to you Pharisees! You give a tenth of your mint, rue, and every herb, yet you neglect justice and love for God! But you should have done these things without neglecting the others. 43 Woe to you Pharisees! You love the best seats in the synagogues and elaborate greetings in the marketplaces! 44 Woe to you! You are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without realizing it!"
45 One of the experts in religious law answered him, "Teacher, when you say these things you insult us too." 46 But Jesus replied, "Woe to you experts in religious law as well! You load people down with burdens difficult to bear, yet you yourselves refuse to touch the burdens with even one of your fingers! 47 Woe to you! You build the tombs of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. 48 So you testify that you approve of the deeds of your ancestors, because they killed the prophets and you build their tombs! 49 For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,' 50 so that this generation may be held accountable for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be charged against this generation. 52 Woe to you experts in religious law! You have taken away the key to knowledge! You did not go in yourselves, and you hindered those who were going in."
53 When he went out from there, the experts in the law and the Pharisees began to oppose him bitterly, and to ask him hostile questions about many things, 54 plotting against him, to catch him in something he might say.
Again, the judgment here is not hell, but that of physical destruction along with the Temple and City, just as it was with the first Temple which was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar II after the Siege of Jerusalem of 587 BCE. That judgement was not going to be forgiven, and the individuals involved were not forgiven, as seen by Daniel, beloved of God, who also went into exile. Again this is very similar to what Jesus was pronouncing here. The individual person, and the people who have persisted in denying Christ will suffer the physical punishment of the Temple and city being destroyed, which happened as Christ predicted in AD 70. This is not about the general the judgement of hell or the permanent loss of salvation, because those who imbibed the leaven of the Pharisees, like Paul, could still be saved. It's about a specific judgement, not the loss of any possibility of salvation, or losing salvation once saved by grace. Also, Jesus is only speaking to Israel here, not the church. Sorry you can't see it, and sorry I can't explain it better, so I will leave it at that. Blessings.

At this point, I realised any attempt at further discussion with her would be useless (and of course, the original poster 'liked' all of her arguments) so I just left it alone after that.

One side note I did find curiously interesting, though, is the fact that in Luke 12:51 they mentioned 'from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah'. Now I realise that neither the Hebrew nor Greek alphabets use the same letters the English language does but I couldn't help notice in passing that from Abel to Zechariah is also from A-Z.

[creationliberty]

They have to believe that Christ is just referring to a small specific group of people, and not to mankind as a whole because, if what you're saying is true, then they are guilty. Therefore, to avoid guilt of wrongdoing, and consideration that they too are not of Christ, they choose to believe in what is convenient for them, just as the Pharisees did.

Jeanne, a more simply way to approach such people, from my experience, is to use their own logical fallacy against them. If you read over John 3, you can use their exact same argument against them. You can say that, if what they tell you is true, then only Nicodemus needed to be born again, and God only loved Nicodemus enough to send His only begotten son because, after all, Christ was talking to Nicodemus at that point. Go review it for yourself; you'll see what I mean.

[davehenry]

Would i be right in saying for instance that,if anybody says that a born again Spirit filled christian would be willing to commit murder,that that would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit also?
Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do.He was a murderer from the beginning,and abode not in the truth,because there is no truth in him.When he speaketh a lie,he speaketh of his own:for he is a liar,and the father of it.John 8:44.
Murder is of course done by lying also as
A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it;and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.1 John 3:15.
Whether it be claimed a christian would commit physical murder or murder in the heart,would it be to far to say it was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
Satan came to kill,steal and destroy but the Lord Jesus Christ came to give life,and that they might have it more abundantly after all.

[Timothy]

Would i be right in saying for instance that,if anybody says that a born again Spirit filled christian would be willing to commit murder,that that would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit also?
Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do.He was a murderer from the beginning,and abode not in the truth,because there is no truth in him.When he speaketh a lie,he speaketh of his own:for he is a liar,and the father of it.John 8:44.
Murder is of course done by lying also as
A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it;and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

That would not be the case because you would have to ignore the fact that a Christian is at war between the Spirit and the flesh. You would have to say that that willingness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit which we all know murder and lying is not the fruit of the Spirit, but the works of the flesh.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Any willingness for a Christian to sin would be because of the war between the Spirit and the flesh which we are all subject to. If any one were to claim that I am willing to commit some sin, they probably wouldn't be wrong but I know that you all know that it's not because of the Holy Spirit in me, but rather the sin in my flesh.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.