Lies to Me to Justify Herself

[creationliberty]

MICHELLE FROM WA
Just found your website and have been listening to your 5013c info. Just read your info on abortion and I don't understand why you call it a waste of time for Christ followers to stand at abortion clinics. Are we not to love our neighbors as ourselves? It wouldn't be very loving to ignore the slaughter of our time. Have you seen all the abolitionists of abortion that bring the gospel to those clinics daily and daily babies are saved?? I follow many of them on fb and most have live videos every day so I see them being saved daily. I myself have gone out to these demonic centers and have been able to share the gospel and have seen God work miraculously in some areas. I have seen moms choose life because the signs were there, and believers there offering help.
If you don't understand why I said that, and you want an explanation, I have an entire teaching on abortion along with an audio series that you can listen to, where I explain it in a lot of detail, and if that's not enough, then you can always ask me for it, but there's nothing about your letter that remotely indicates that you care about why I said what I said. You only followed up a statement with some rhetorical questions, which indicates that you have no intention of discussing this matter. It seems you only care about convincing me of your position, and if that's the case, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by this, so you'll have to clarify that for me.
Hello, thanks for responding! I did read the article, and I will listen to the podcast audio to see if that helps, but my questions for you were genuine. I am really curious why, as I stated in my message regarding how I did not understand. I thought you would explain it more in depth, so I am honestly just trying to understand. I have never heard this take on it. I know you said that signs won't quickly change a mindset to pro life, and I agree, but what I am asking is why you think it's a waste of time when babies lives are saved? Please explain. I know for a fact that when Christ followers don't show up to these kill mills, all babies that are scheduled to die that day will, but when people show up to share the gospel and offer help, some of them will live. I don't see how that could be a waste of time in any way?
what I am asking is why you think it's a waste of time when babies lives are saved?
I don't know where I said that. If that is something you think I said, write down the quote (or give me the time stamp of the video) where I said that, so I can understand what you're referring to.
TWO DAYS LATER, AFTER NO RESPONSE:
I'll wait. Whenever you get me that quote, we'll talk about it.
END OF DISCUSSION
This woman lied to me and used loaded, rhetorical statements (with question marks on the end of the sentence) as her argument.
I will comment on that in a reply on this thread.

[creationliberty]

It's been over two week and she hasn't gotten back with me, so I'll just respond here.

Michelle is one of many people who write to me saying that they found my website by researching information on 501c3. This is one of the reasons why I debated not writing a book on the subject; simply because I knew that a bunch of disgruntled churchgoers would end up contacting me at regular intervals over the course of many years. This is because they will agree with my general position on 501c3 (without reading or listening to the entire teaching to get the full information before drawing conclusions, and most stop before they understand the core problem with it), only to continue to look at my website, and find out that I rebuke their favorite false preacher/prophet, or their beloved political hot topic.

Michelle claimed that she read the entire article I have available on the abortion subject, in which I go into the very deep details of what is the foundation of the abortion movement. (This also demonstrates what I mean when I talk about churchgoers just searching my site looking for political hot topics--Michelle went from 501c3 to abortion, which is a common chain of search for churchgoers... no searching out what I teach on the Gospel of Salvation first... just get those political boxes checked, right?) Apparently, she must have skimmed over most of the article (which is what people typically do when they write me and say they "read" a book or article I wrote).

As soon as I read the first couple of sentences of her letter, I knew this was a waste of my time. The reason is because she was accusing me of things I did not say, and despite the fact that she fervently told me that she really wanted to have a conversation with me, the second I requested that she quote me on what I said/wrote, she ghosted me, and I could not count the amount of times that this has happened to me in email, namely, that I ask for research/quotes, and I never hear back from the person again... which is a strong indication of someone who makes decisions based on their feelings instead of facts.

To give an example of a rhetorical question, she wrote:
Have you seen all the abolitionists of abortion that bring the gospel to those clinics daily and daily babies are saved?
Either Michelle lied to me that she was not asking rhetorical questions, or she does not know what a rhetorical question is:

rhetorical (adj): used for, belonging to, or concerned with mere style or effect, rather than truth, substance, or meaning

Let's put it a different way: Michelle did not ask me that question looking for answer. She was not probing me for information. Rather, if she was going to be more straight-forward and honest, she should have said:
I have seen all the abolitionists of abortion that bring the gospel to those clinics daily and daily babies are saved.
Assuming that is true (because I cannot ascertain if it is), that is not what I was referring to in my article on abortion. I would encourage you all to read it (or listen to the teaching series) for yourself so you can see what I mean. I addressed the problems from a political standpoint, and the fact that most churchgoers have no idea the battle that is really being fought, and that standing around with picket signs that read "abortion is murder" does not fight against the root cause (which is the witchcraft and child sacrifice that goes on behind closed doors), and therefore, they are wasting their time to push an agenda that happens to be a political hot topic right now, rather than fighting the root cause of the abortion movement.

Abortion has only grown over the years and continues to grow because of the corrupt philosophies taught to children (especially young girls) and the demonic agenda that is active behind the scenes.

No one is arguing that a woman may have been persuaded (at least for a time) to not kill her baby because of people standing out front of a Planned Parenthood (i.e. demonic) building, but that does not mean that the people in protest have a good understanding.

Of course, if Michelle had read my article in full, she would know that. However, she followed up her so-called "question" in her first letter with a bunch of statements saying that she had been there and seen all these things... and then... nothing. That was the end of her first letter. She just left the rest of letter without conclusion, which leaves us to conclude that her true intention in this letter was to say to me, "The fact that you wrote that article means you don't love your neighbor like a Christian should, so explain to me why you don't."

This is why I responded to her the way I did. She did not want to have a conversation (i.e. meaning that she lied to me), and she proved that by running away the second she was called to provide evidence of her accusation. I knew from her first letter that she was accusing me of saying things I didn't say.

Don't misunderstand; I have no problem with being accused of something. There is always the possibility that I said or did something wrong, but what I do have a problem with is something accusing me of arguing something I did not argue; otherwise known as a "strawman" fallacy.

In her second letter, she says:
I know you said that signs won't quickly change a mindset to pro life, and I agree, but what I am asking is why you think it's a waste of time when babies lives are saved?
Again, this is a presumption. She is presuming that sign that reads "abortion is murder" saved a baby's life. If that was the case, why could you not just hammer the sign into the ground, and leave it there. If signs saved the babies, why have the people there?

What does save a baby's life? Women getting support. Where does that happen? In pro-life help centers.

Am I saying it's wrong to go out and try to help women? No. I don't believe I've ever said that. I'm saying that most of the people who hold up these signs don't have a clue what the real fight is.

So what Michelle did is claim (falsely) that I said that "it's a waste of time when babies lives are saved," but I NEVER made such a statement, meaning that she is falsely accusing me. That's why I simply responded by asking her to quote me, and from her silence, I can gather that either she didn't do her homework, she's lazy, she's embarrassed because she realized her error, or all of the above.

She then makes another presumptuous statement:
I know for a fact that when Christ followers don't show up to these kill mills, all babies that are scheduled to die that day will, but when people show up to share the gospel and offer help, some of them will live.
First, you don't know that all of them will die that day. There are, based on testimonies I have read, a substantial amount of mothers who change their minds once they get inside the "clinic." Michelle is saying, "If we're not there, they die." That's factually incorrect. However, I will argue that someone being there to offer help is helpful to the cause of saving children, but that doesn't mean that the Gospel of Christ is actually being shared.

Just like those who don't understand the Gospel hold up "Jesus Saves" signs (instead of preaching the law to lost sinners), likewise, those who don't understand the core problem underlying in these clinics hold up "abortion is murder" signs. I can understand the sentiment, and the appeal to using those signs, but while there is a battle to be fought on a surface level of getting women help, there is an underlying battle to be fought of child sacrifice, to understand the deep-seeded level of witchcraft that is behind all of it.

Frankly, I believe that the pro-life centers who offer women help in a variety of ways are doing far more good than holding up "abortion is murder" signs, which essentially is a churchgoer's way of thinking he is "preaching the Gospel" which, in reality, few of them understand the Gospel of Salvation (despite the fact that many believe they do).
(SEE HERE FOR DETAILS)

If any of you want to go fight a battle like that in front of an abortion center, by all means, go and do that. Even writing this on the forum is a battle I have been given passion to fight, to increase the discernment and understanding of the church, if, God willing, I am able to do so. I hope others will do what God has given them resolve to do, and I hope I haven't dissuaded anyone from preaching in front of abortion centers if that is on their hearts to do. However, I think it is infinitely more important to understand Christ's Gospel of repentance for the remission of sins, and that, based on what I have discerned, there are far more churchgoers that are on their way to hell than there are babies being murdered, and quite a number of those holding the picket signs that read "abortion is murder" are standing around without knowing the fullness of the Gospel of Salvation in Christ, which, if a woman understands, she would not kill her baby in the first place.

There are many battles to fight. Pick the one the Lord give you passion to fight, but make sure you fight with understanding.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
-1Co 14:15

Thanks if you took the time to read my thoughts. I hope you all have a great day.

[someguy85]

I would have thought the "Why did you say people protesting abortion clinics are wasting their time?" question was quite obviously answered...because they're protesting it on a medical/political level, when the big problem is on a spiritual level, same reason why handing out fresh needles and other drug paraphernalia in California and Oregon has only made the problem worse, not better, because trying to treat one symptom doesn't remove the cause.

[creationliberty]

Yeah, that's the reason I suspect that when a lot of people who write to me say that they "read my article," what they actually mean is that they read a few paragraphs of it, or skimmed over it. I mean, maybe I didn't make that stuff clear enough in what I wrote, which happens sometimes, but I thought I was pretty clear in that teaching.

[someguy85]

Oh no, it was definitely clear enough...but if dealing with people over the years has taught me anything, it's that people don't like confronting things that challenge anything they have a romanticized idea of. Same reason why people don't like the idea that ultimately their governments aren't trustworthy, that there are tons of places all over the world where it's risky to enter and travel as an outsider, that obesity isn't "genetic" or "a simple thyroid problem" it's diet and in many cases a lack of self control, or that their parents would ever lie to them about santa clause or the easter bunny...or as the one you've seen and posted about in numerous articles...that religious leaders in any sect or cult are simply men, they aren't demi-gods but so many are held up in that position. In a way it reminds me of what some parents have told their children when their children have mentioned anything about ritual abuse "don't be silly, that kind of thing doesn't happen".

It's kind of like people don't want to believe that evil of an exceptionally dark nature could exist, especially in the modern day where people love thinking that we're "enlightened" and any kind of horrible act was long ago and far away.

Not sure who was originally credited with the line, but I think it still holds some weight "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist". I'd argue that his greatest deception was convincing himself that he could win against and somehow overthrow God, which ironically is something he's convinced himself of.