Introduction

[John]

Hello,

My name is John, I am 22 years old, live in Des Moines, IA, and I am a born again Christian. I was saved when I was 16, I was crying out to God in repentance and asking him forgiveness for my many sins and from that day fourth I have been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. I believe on the resurrection of Christ and that Jesus Christ is God.

I have used to be apart of this church 3+ years ago, and am not sure who/if any will remember me. But I started to drift out of the church when I started to "establish" myself while I was becoming an young adult; I started to slowly get back into the sin of sorcery and other sins, that I had forgotten that was the very stuff the Lord saved me out of when I first got saved.

From since I left this church originally I have been running from God, and became leavened. During that period of time I have been miserable. The conviction I would get from my sins and continiuation of attempting to ignore it has caught up to me after all that time.

Since April 26th, 2022 I have been actively cleaning up and sanctifying myself from the sins and struggles I have created for myself. It has been very difficult, but I did get to speak with the church on Skype  - I was at very low spot at that time, but I am so thankful for the church to love me enough to tell me the Truth and for all the prayers.

I can report that I am in much better spirits since I last spoke with you guys on Skype last and started cleaning up my life. I hope this introduction is satisfactory for the time, as it is getting late for me now and I have work in the morning; but I wanted to get this initiated. I will check back in on this as soon as I can, if anyone has questions.

[Rowan M.]

Welcome, John! I remember that Skype call you were on back in early May. It's great to see you joining up now! So how has your progress been since that time? You mention the sin of sorcery, but that was more drugs than witchcraft, wasn't it? Or were you messing around with the occult as well?

For the benefit of those who don't know you and non-members who can read this section of the forum, could you please share more about how you got saved initially? How did you come to hear the Gospel and get to that point of repentance?

Anyway, thank you for this intro and welcome once again. Hope to see you in the church reasonably soon.

[Ellie]

Hi John, glad to hear you’re doing better. You don’t know me specifically and I didn’t personally speak when you came on the call, but I’m Tim’s wife. I assume you remember him from before.

I am curious too about how things are going with what you spoke to us about. With your family, girlfriend, and what Rowan mentioned—if you’re comfortable with sharing. I hope that things are getting better and continue to do so. And I hope that fellowship with the church might be beneficial to you as well, I’m glad that you’ve begun to seek that out again after several years.

I heard the godly sorrow in what you spoke to us previously, but I too am curious about more details on your salvation. I just like hearing about it from people, like how they heard the Law and came to sorrow at the foot of the cross.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your introduction and welcome back!

[John]

Thank you for the warm welcome Rowan and Ellie! To clarify first,, when I said sorcery I meant as in drugs (pain killers, weed, nicotine, adderall)

It has been hard. I used to use drugs to deal with my depression, anxiety, stress, boredom, sleep, work, etc… and then I would use drugs more to deal with my drug problem.

This verse would always pop in my head, especially towards the end of my addictions:

proverbs 4:16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.

A lot of verses from proverbs 4 would pop in my head, it’s perfect instruction for me.

After I spoke with you guys, I moved out of my parents home and in with my sister in continuation of my sanctification from the pills. I would get  pain killers from her and I just needed some separation as I collected my thoughts and got my head together.

After that it has been a domino effect. My mom has also sanctified her self from addiction. I have decided to move back home for the time being as there is no longer stumbling blocks for me. In that time was her and I’s relationship has taking a complete turn and I couldn’t be more thankful for.

I am still dating my girlfriend. We have been together for 3+ years and I do love her, it’s not only lust. She knows my beliefs and I firmly tell her. We have a trip to Greece on July 23rd we have planned for a year and a half in advance and I plan on going, but I definitely have my concerns. I know what you guys said when I spoke with you and I know what I told you guys. I could use some deeper guidance on this situation, I will lay out the story of Her and I, but would keep the details private.

It’s still really hard, but instead of my old ways of running and using drugs to “fix” my problems, I am now dealing with my problems and trying to pick up the pieces, because they are still there. I just am facing them now and getting help and healing as drugs never worked in fixing anything, it made my life far worse and I would lie to myself saying they did.

I’m reading the word of God much more and in much more prayer with him. Although it’s hard and I still struggle with depression and all the other emotions, I’m developing new tools to deal with them and it makes me feel much stronger than I used to.

I am writing more about my salvation now as well and will post that separately as this is getting long and I’m getting a little hungry lol.

[John]

My salvation

I grew up in church buildings and always heard about the law and coming to the foot of cross. I even remember doing the sinners prayer once, I must of only been 7 or 8 at the most. Obviously I had no idea what any of that meant. I had some difficult teen years and at about 16 I started getting obsessed into Kent Hovinds Creation teachings, and I would watch them over and over. At the time I knew I had sin in my life and I knew what the Bible said about salvation. God gave me Godly sorrow and salvation at that time I was crying out to him. I even called and spoke with Kent Hovind on the phone, and wanting to verify with him that I was saved. I didn’t know anything at that time. But slowly after that, I stopped following Kent Hovind and I didn’t know why, something was just off about him and shortly after that is when I first found CLE.

[Rowan M.]

I am still dating my girlfriend. We have been together for 3+ years and I do love her, it’s not only lust. She knows my beliefs and I firmly tell her. We have a trip to Greece on July 23rd we have planned for a year and a half in advance and I plan on going, but I definitely have my concerns. I know what you guys said when I spoke with you and I know what I told you guys. I could use some deeper guidance on this situation, I will lay out the story of Her and I, but would keep the details private.

Have you at least stopped fornicating with her? You were talking a bit in your post about sanctification from pills, but this is something else you need to sanctify yourself from.

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. (1 Thessalonians 4:3-6)

The word "abstain" means "consciously refuse to do". Even when we get saved, we still have our old fleshly lusts, and the temptation to indulge them is always there, which is why we must ABSTAIN from them (also see 1 Peter 2:11). If you go on fornicating, then you're acting no differently to an unbeliever ("as the Gentiles which know not God"). Also, what if your girlfriend ends up marrying someone else someday? You're defrauding her future husband by taking something that should only be his. Even if she does marry you eventually, you should still hold off until that happens. After all, one of the purposes of marriage is to avoid fornication - Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2)

Now if you actually have stopped fornicating with your girlfriend, that's a good step in the right direction. However, going to Greece with her is going to expose you to an awful lot of temptation, so if I were you, I'd rethink that plan. Moreover, there is the other issue of the unequal yoke. I'm sure you're quite familiar with 2 Corinthians 10:14-18. It's worth quoting the first two verses of that passage in particular: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? Light and darkness DO NOT MIX. A child of God and a child of the Devil cannot be joined together in spiritual harmony. There are several people here - ladies, mainly - who can testify to the horrors of being unequally yoked. God will not bless your fornication with your girlfriend, if you're still doing that, but He won't bless you marrying her either if she is still unsaved. So as you were advised during the call two months ago, you should consider breaking up with her. I know that would be a hard thing to do. After all this time of being with her, it would be an immense emotional wrench for both of you. I understand how tough that would be. But sometimes you just have to do what's right over what's convenient. It's a situation where you have to put a lot of faith and trust in God. He could bring a godly lady into your life in His due time. Or your girlfriend might get saved and you may be able to reconcile with her and marry her after all. One way or another, He would bless your obedience, short-term agony notwithstanding. But if you continue the way you are, you're going to invite continual problems into your life, because the Lord will chastise you for ongoing disobedience.

Ultimately, it's up to you what you do with your girlfriend, and your life generally. I can't tell you what to do - all I can do (in fact, all any of us can do) is give you some Biblical counsel and try to reason with you. Anyway, thank you for the more detailed update - I do appreciate that. I'm glad you're getting away from the pills, at least. And thanks for sharing your salvation story as well. Have you listened to any of the recent teachings about Kent Hovind? I think you'd find them very interesting after your experience with him, so do check those out sometime.

[Ellie]

Thanks for sharing more about your testimony and giving the answers to our questions. I am glad that you're taking some of the steps needed to get in a better place and that things with your mom are going better.

So I want to say some things about the situation with your girlfriend. I thought about saying something on the church call, but I didn't end up doing it. I regretted it but I am going to do it now since the opportunity has presented itself. This is going to be long, but I don't know how to fix that because I want to give my own experience and make a few points. I don't want to seem like we're being harsh on you about this and possibly drive you away from the church after you came back after a few years. I heard true repentance from you and I can only hope that you'll listen and consider these things.

So I had a situation similar to yours regarding a relationship with someone who wasn't saved. One difference is that he claimed to be a Christian but your girlfriend doesn't, based on what I can recall that you've told us. And I also began dating him before I was saved--I got saved more than a year into our relationship. I dated him for nearly 2 years, not as long as yours but it was still serious to the point that we had intentions of getting engaged and married.

When we got together he was a churchgoer and I was worldly and proud of it, but I eventually cleaned up my act a bit after he introduced me to churchianity. There was conflict in our relationship even then because I was uncomfortable with certain aspects of our relationship because I knew that what we were doing was wrong but he didn't really care about it, he was very lukewarm. At that time I began to wonder whether I should leave him or not because it didn't seem like he cared about the same things that we both claimed to believe in at that point. I stayed with him despite my doubt because I did like him, he was kind to me, fun to be around, and honestly, I didn't think I could find anything better after previous experiences. I also didn't have strong conviction to do the right thing because I wasn't saved.

Some time passed and eventually I got saved. Conflict arose more because of that. For months I debated with myself about whether or not I should leave him. On one hand, I cared about him a lot, I didn't want to give up the good parts of our relationship, and I also wanted to be patient and hold out hope that things could change. But on the other hand, I knew I wanted a good marriage with a man who had the same desire to live according to Christ's doctrine, I knew that something just wasn't right with him spiritually, and I knew about what scripture says about marriage and being unequally yoked.

I thought about it constantly and questioned what to do. I was completely torn apart over it and I couldn't let go of it because once I convinced myself it was OK to stay with him, I'd begin questioning it again and be full of doubt. No matter my justifications and how I tried to settle it in my mind, I simply knew it was not right even though I didn't have full understanding yet about why (i.e he is a false convert/not of Christ).

I had conversations with him about some of the issues and we seemed to be able to temporarily and superficially move on and try to work on things, however despite that, it wasn't truly solved. The spiritual separation was still there and it was irreconcilable. So after nearly 8 months (not including before I was saved) of going back and forth in my mind trying to force things to work, I broke up with him. I simply could not justify it anymore. The conviction that God put on me about it wouldn't go away no matter what I did. So I knew I had to.

I suffered loss during that period of time in other areas of my life because of other decisions due to conviction from God. But despite the loss of all those things, I finally had peace that I did what was right in God's sight. And the very next month after breaking up was when God blessed me with finding CLE where I joined the church, gained understanding, and met my husband Tim. I know with certainty that it was the right thing to do, and I am thankful beyond measure that God convicted me to do it because it wouldn't have been the same had I disobeyed to the point of marriage with an unbeliever. My relationship with my husband now is better than I could have imagined I'd ever have and I never would have had it if I strayed from God's commands.

So the reason I tell you all these things is because if you are a Christian like I believe you are, then I have confidence that the Holy Spirit has convicted you on these matters possibly even in a similar way that it happened to me. Perhaps if you see that someone else has done similar things, and has come out on the other side, you might be able to see more clearly what to do in your own situation and have faith that God will take care of you more than you can comprehend at the moment. (Not that all the same things that happened to me will happen to you, but in general). I know it is a hard decision to make, but you have nothing to fear on the other side of it. You will be okay. I know that because I have been there, and God's word confirms that you'll be more than okay:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. - 2 Corinthians 6: 14-18

He said that when you separate yourselves from the unbelievers you are unequally yoked to, He will be a Father unto you and receive you as a son. What is there to fear when the Lord Almighty made a promise like this?

I really do not want to be harsh, but I want to speak plainly because I have been there before and I know what I would have benefited from hearing when I went through the same thing. And of course it's all up to you what you'll do, God gives you liberty to make decisions, but I think you know what is right, you are just hesitant to do it because of what you believe that you're losing. I want to remind you of what Christ said here, and I realize it doesn't talk about leaving girlfriends specifically, but I believe it still applies:

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. - Mark 10:29-30

I am still dating my girlfriend. We have been together for 3+ years and I do love her, it’s not only lust. She knows my beliefs and I firmly tell her. We have a trip to Greece on July 23rd we have planned for a year and a half in advance and I plan on going, but I definitely have my concerns. I know what you guys said when I spoke with you and I know what I told you guys. I could use some deeper guidance on this situation, I will lay out the story of Her and I, but would keep the details private.

So you say that you love her, and I believe you. However, I want to point out that you are meant to be an ambassador of Christ to those around you. That doesn't mean just telling people what you believe but also by living it. When you stay with her despite the fact that you know she isn't of Christ, you are telling her by your actions (regardless of what you say to her) that it's okay to reject Jesus Christ, the One who you have testified to her about saving your soul from hell. She is on her way to hell right now, and if anything at all would demonstrate love for her, it is that you would stand up for what's truly right in His sight despite your emotions and time spent with her. If I may put it this way, it doesn't matter how firmly you tell someone the truth if your actions say the opposite. But if you do the right thing despite it causing you pain for the sake of Jesus Christ, then it will testify of the impact that He has had on your life more than words alone, because you will follow His commands instead of your own desires.

In addition, I think I should mention that I understand your love for her, but that should not surpass the love you have for Jesus Christ. Again, this doesn't mention girlfriends but the concept still applies here:

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. - Matthew 10:37-38

I hope that I didn't cross any lines here, and I am sorry this is so long. It's longer than I'd normally like to reply to someone who just joined the forum, but I think the situation permits it and I hope you understand.

[creationliberty]

In addition, I think I should mention that I understand your love for her, but that should not surpass the love you have for Jesus Christ. Again, this doesn't mention girlfriends but the concept still applies here:

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. - Matthew 10:37-38

It's not about whether or not "girlfriend" is mentioned in that verse to make it apply. The verse is FAR more intense than John's situation. It would be FAR more grievous to be separated from your parents, and even MORE grievous to be separated from your child. This connection between you and a girlfriend is a far lesser relationship than those. Christ put emphasis on the closest relationships in this world, and saying that your relationship with Him must be FAR greater of importance.

This is just me, but I have had a few girlfriends in my life, and though some people might be offended by this, I have no problem saying that I still care very much about all of them, despite the fact that they, for the most part, hate me. However, true love is a SELFLESS sacrifice for someone else. That means you do what is best for them, even if they hate you for it, or it makes them sad initially.

Just look at what you wrote:
I am still dating my girlfriend. We have been together for 3+ years and I do love her, it’s not only lust. She knows my beliefs and I firmly tell her. We have a trip to Greece on July 23rd we have planned for a year and a half in advance and I plan on going, but I definitely have my concerns.

I, I, I, me, me, me, my, my, my... you still don't understand. Right now, it's all about you. I don't see anything in your writing where you are really thinking about her, and what's best for her. From someone who, according to what you have told us, has repentance and faith in Christ, to see and do what is best for her soul is love. Right now, I don't see you speaking about what's best for her, and that's concerning.

Maybe in the future, you will be together. Who knows? Because I have made that statement with that possibility about a number of women, and none of it turned out the way I thought it would. What you need and what she needs is not necessary what you both want in this moment.

Until you make a decision to the right thing first and foremost, nothing will change. As Ellie pointed out, those promises from God come with conditions. I have experienced that many times in my life, so I know what it takes for me to fulfill my end of the contract, and I have witnessed God fulfill His end of the contract.

You will NOT see Him change anything for the better until you take faithful steps. Guaranteed.