Pretending to Protect

[theAXEisLAID]

I have from time to time thought about the life of the "secret agent man." I am talking about the good guy spy who infiltrates the terrorist's headquarters and ruins the bad guys' plot to blow up a building or foils their plans to assassinate a world leader. I somewhat liken this to what David did when acting mad.

And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard. Then said Achish unto his servants, Lo, ye see the man is mad: wherefore then have ye brought him to me? 1 Samuel 21:12-14

So even being in a life and death position like this, was not David's fictitious actions considered lies? I have read accounts of undercover police bringing down entire criminal gangs by doing this type of pretending. Many of these police were scared too and pretended to be someone they were not in order to survive.

I do not consider children playing Cowboys and Indians sinful lying but I do think most actors cross the line in Hollywood and consider their pretending to be sinful. I am sure a lot has to do with the heart. Because a little white lie to perhaps not hurt someone's feelings is still a lie - it is hard for me to justify this kind of undercover work. I am glad I don't have to do it but at the same time thankful that others do.

Curious to hear any insight anyone might have. Maybe I am just over thinking it and apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. I am also trying to get a few more posts in hopes to gain access to the private section of the forum and I did not want to add any remarks to other threads just for the sake of adding remarks. 

[creationliberty]

Let's first ask a question: When governments execute a criminal, are they guilty of murder?

[theAXEisLAID]

Let's first ask a question: When governments execute a criminal, are they guilty of murder?

No - a criminal committing capital crime is worthy to receive capital punishment.

[Jeanne]

I would add that capital punishment was established by God in the law He gave to Moses for certain crimes, although I really don't see what this has to do with someone pretending to be something or someone they're not for the purpose of deception, even if it's for the purpose of catching a criminal or to protect oneself from harm (as David did in the example above). Could you please explain further, Chris?

[creationliberty]

Could you please explain further, Chris?

I'm just testing his reasoning with a very short response. Did you read the basis for his arguments?

"I somewhat liken this"
"I do not consider"
"I do think"
"I am sure"

Just because someone quotes a verse of Scripture does not mean we're talking about the Bible, and there was no place in his comments where he wanted to discuss Scripture. In fact, it seemed like a bit of a stretch what he even connected the verse to (which I will discuss in a moment), and indeed, he said, "I somewhat liken this," which doesn't mean it has anything to do with what he's talking about. In other words, he was somewhat forcing this post out, which is unlike his other past posts, and I'll get to that in a moment.

What David did was simply let them fool themselves. If they were to judge righteous judgment instead of judging according to the appearance because of the sinfulness of their hearts, they would have found him easily. Withholding information is not necessarily lying and deceit; it can be, but not in this instance.

Furthermore, I know what David (the author of the post) is doing, and I personally think it's shameful. I don't want to be too hard on him because he has made some good posts in the past, but I don't believe he has much interest in fellowship with us. He joined back in October (over half a year ago) and had a little bit of conversation with some folks in his introduction post, and since then, he's typically made one short post about once a month to maintain his account so it doesn't get deleted. Suddenly, when I moved the Insurrection thread, now we get this strange post from him the next day. Coincidence? No, because he said it himself:
I am also trying to get a few more posts in hopes to gain access to the private section of the forum and I did not want to add any remarks to other threads just for the sake of adding remarks
If David's going to be honest, that was his real intention with this post. He even attempted to make it seem like it was a secondary reasoning; no, it was his foundational intention. This post has nothing to do with discussing the Scripture with us, and that's why I did not have much interest in answering with a lengthy post.

So his first thought was to add some remarks, just to get above the threshold so he can read that thread, but then he thought to himself, "Well, that might seem really superficial and would not look good," so instead of searching his heart and thinking about these facts, he tried to come up with an original post so it looked better on the outside, hoping that we would judge this according to the appearance like the wicked men listed in the verse he quoted. That's why (as you may have noticed) his thoughts seem so forced, especially in comparison to his past posts, and frankly, it irritates me. I don't like having to say that with people such as David, because I think God has given him a good understanding, but I have to be blunt here because I don't want others doing this same thing. The only reason I'm responding this thoroughly is because Jeanne asked for it, but otherwise, I would not have responded with this much detail because I know what's going on, and I did not want to contribute to it. I think it's shameful, and I also think it reveals the true heart of some of those on this forum; it demonstrates who is here to have fellowship with Christians and discussing matters with one another, and who is just hanging around in the background so they can get a news feed.

Just a reminder: That is not what this forum was created for. I don't mind if people want to read our public posts, which is why I kept the public section open to the public and did not just privatize the whole thing, but those who want to communicate with us on here make themselves known by their actions, not by having 20 posts, and we can easily discern the difference between the two.

[theAXEisLAID]

Just because someone quotes a verse of Scripture does not mean we're talking about the Bible, and there was no place in his comments where he wanted to discuss Scripture. In fact, it seemed like a bit of a stretch what he even connected the verse to (which I will discuss in a moment), and indeed, he said, "I somewhat liken this," which doesn't mean it has anything to do with what he's talking about. In other words, he was somewhat forcing this post out, which is unlike his other past posts, and I'll get to that in a moment.

I posted here in the "General Discussion," category because I agree it is a stretch with the verse and seemed like a better fit than the "Bible Discussion" category. I did force this post out but I was not trying to be deceitful and that is why I said what I said about joining the private forum - it doesn't take rocket science to figure out I was hoping to see the insurrection act updates - which I will address later in my post.

What David did was simply let them fool themselves. If they were to judge righteous judgment instead of judging according to the appearance because of the sinfulness of their hearts, they would have found him easily. Withholding information is not necessarily lying and deceit; it can be, but not in this instance.

This response right here is why I follow the CLE ministry - not because of deep state updates. Spot on, Chris you are a very smart man. I thank the Lord Jesus that He has gifted you and for what you do for the Church. I know Chris doesn't like to hear any personal praise and that is understandable but I think most members on here would agree with that statement. I am hoping to reason this out.

Furthermore, I know what David (the author of the post) is doing, and I personally think it's shameful. I don't want to be too hard on him because he has made some good posts in the past, but I don't believe he has much interest in fellowship with us. He joined back in October (over half a year ago) and had a little bit of conversation with some folks in his introduction post, and since then, he's typically made one short post about once a month to maintain his account so it doesn't get deleted.

Actually I do have interest in fellowshipping with you all but I think Chris has me wrong on this account. I was a bit taken back that other than Chris not one other male in my introduction thread said hello or anything welcoming to me. The ladies however were the complete opposite. I wasn't sure exactly how to carry on after that especially when it is known that silence to a post generally means there is nothing to say or nobody wants to say anything. So be it - my feelings were hurt and I know they deceive me so "churhanity niceness" is no big deal but because of this I didn't press the issue to join the fellowship. I thought that over time my posts would prove my sincerity and I would eventually get invited.

Suddenly, when I moved the Insurrection thread, now we get this strange post from him the next day. Coincidence? No, because he said it himself:
I am also trying to get a few more posts in hopes to gain access to the private section of the forum and I did not want to add any remarks to other threads just for the sake of adding remarks
If David's going to be honest, that was his real intention with this post.

Again - I agree, I actually had erased a portion of the post that said it was forced to get to the private section but that is not why I am here on the forum. I actually signed up before the insurrection updates, I am here to be with like minded Christians.

Since the thread was locked I couldn't respond but if I could have, I would have responded with something like this:
     Chris, I appreciate the time you put forth sifting through the falsehoods surrounding this whole ordeal. It is indeed work to research all of this. You have saved me a great deal of time and energy as I catch the updates here and it has enabled me to focus more on the work I have. I used to spend hours reading the news, both mainstream and alternative but because of your effort I am able do less of it. I am the administrator of my father's estate, so I have been busy dealing with my siblings and many of my crazy relatives (and I am sure they say the same about me). I am hoping to be able to retain the farm (which needs a lot of maintenance). Before I was a Christian I pledged to take care of my Aunt and it has been very trying dealing with her too.

I see now I should have started a thread with this explanation but I didn't think of that. Sorry for my indirectness with my intentions. 

So his first thought was to add some remarks, just to get above the threshold so he can read that thread, but then he thought to himself, "Well, that might seem really superficial and would not look good," so instead of searching his heart and thinking about these facts, he tried to come up with an original post so it looked better on the outside, hoping that we would judge this according to the appearance like the wicked men listed in the verse he quoted. That's why (as you may have noticed) his thoughts seem so forced, especially in comparison to his past posts, and frankly, it irritates me. I don't like having to say that with people such as David, because I think God has given him a good understanding, but I have to be blunt here because I don't want others doing this same thing. The only reason I'm responding this thoroughly is because Jeanne asked for it, but otherwise, I would not have responded with this much detail because I know what's going on, and I did not want to contribute to it. I think it's shameful, and I also think it reveals the true heart of some of those on this forum; it demonstrates who is here to have fellowship with Christians and discussing matters with one another, and who is just hanging around in the background so they can get a news feed.

.
Well kinda/sorta - yes to the get over the threshold but no to the trying to look good. That was stupid for me to post like that - I didn't think it through so I look foolish - not the first time. I thought it would be better to come up with a topic than to post something like a smiley face or just a "yes I agree," social media type response. I would rather fellowship with Christians over having news feed so keep me out if that is what must be done in order that I prove myself. I actually always thought what David did in that instance was lying and did think it was an interesting subject. I don't want to irritate Chris - definitely not what I want to do. More importantly I don't want to irritate the Lord Jesus so I'll try to be more direct moving forward.

Just a reminder: That is not what this forum was created for. I don't mind if people want to read our public posts, which is why I kept the public section open to the public and did not just privatize the whole thing, but those who want to communicate with us on here make themselves known by their actions, not by having 20 posts, and we can easily discern the difference between the two.

I have been busy with life just like everyone else but nothing is more important than the Lord Jesus and his people. I know it takes time to write thoroughly well thought out responses - it shows you care. I will keep the one liners to a minimum. I think Chris is right that I was hoping to get into the private section but I think he is wrong in my intentions. I am only a few years removed from the Army and I worked for some of the top brass and know some of them fairly well. There are both good and bad in the military amongst the top brass. One of my old bosses who I would not want to be mad at me (again) is in what I consider one of, if not the most important positions in the military. For this plan to unfold he has to be on board. I know enough about operational security to keep my mouth shut and that is why I just read and never commented. I write this to hopefully further explain why I care to read the open source reporting Chris was doing. I know my old boss and many others are up against a mountain of brainwashed operatives.

I definitely do not place these things above the things of God and I am sorry if I came across that way. Again not a big deal to not read the updates, the Lord Jesus is more important I'll be fine without them.

[theAXEisLAID]

Hey Chris – I am really sorry for my actions here.
 
First I am sorry for the deceit of my first post and second I am sorry for trying to justify myself in the second. Thank you for being patient with me.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:6

In my foolish pride I wrote a letter to you again trying to justify myself. I was going into some details of my past that brought up some unrepentant hatred I had from nearly 20 years ago. I cried unto God knowing how wrong and shameful this murderous hatred is in his site. Afterwards, I began to look at my actions here with an understanding and I see I was in error. 
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Psalm 32:1

[creationliberty]

It's okay. Your account should be updated to the private section of the forum.