Author Topic: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance  (Read 8351 times)

creationliberty

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Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« on: July 03, 2020, 01:14:00 PM »
I found this today by accident while I was doing research on something unrelated. This was from over a year ago, back in March of 2019. Here is the video reference, the link has the time stamp, so you will not have to watch the entire video, and his answer is only about five minutes long:
https://youtu.be/fT3CWYKsS-4?t=700

I found this ironic, since he has a website called "biblethinker.org," but his foundation is not based on Scripture, it is based on Greek grammar dictionaries. I left a Youtube comment, and I'll quote it here, with a little color and spacing to organize it for easier reading since Youtube is terrible for making thorough comments. After that, I'll leave you guys to comment on the details; I'll be interested to see your analysis of the video.



Comment can be found at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT3CWYKsS-4&lc=Ugy1IZSu6AyOWqzFwSB4AaABAg

My name is Christopher Johnson, and I am the teacher of third question of this video about Creation Liberty Evangelism. I just want everyone who might read this to understand that this man, Mike Winger, is scamming you. The foundation of this man's doctrine and philosophy is Greek grammar dictionaries, not the Word of God, as you can see from his own statement (14:04): "What you kind of want, if you can find it, is a resource that gives you more data than that, right? Like, more information about the word."

The problem is that, after he said this, Winger did NOT point people to the context of the Bible for that extra data, allowing God to explain what He means by what He says (as we are supposed to study Scripture, which the Bible teaches us to do in Isaiah 28:10-13), but rather, Winger points them to very expensive "bible tools," which are basically Greek grammar dictionaries, and I have some teachings on our website where you can get more information about how Mike Winger is scamming you all into thinking he has Scriptural understanding, when he does not. I will simply give you the titles, as I do not want to spam links in this post on his video, but you can look them up on my website:

The 'Original Greek' Scam (keyword search 'greek')

The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances (keyword search 'lexicon')

I will provide just one link. If you want to hear the gospel on repentance that Mike Winger does not understand, the following link is my teaching on repentance where you can learn the context of God's Word, rather than going to secular sources for information: http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php

When you forsake the worldly ways of Mike Winger, and choose to put your trust in the Lord God, you can go to God's Word for understand, and He defined repentance at the very beginning:
"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." -Gen 6:6-7
The Bible (at least, the King James Bible) has a built-in dictionary for most words, and repentance is defined here as "grief" in general. Did God "turn" from making man, or did He "change his mind" from making man? Obviously not, or we would not be here right now; rather, God GRIEVED that He had made man, because it hurt him how wicked they had become. The fact is that, if God turned or changed from making man, then it would make God a liar because He already foretold the coming of Jesus Christ in Gen 3:15, and so Winger's doctrine is not only inconsistent when you look at Scripture, but it directly contradicts Biblical prophecy.

To show more deception, the man who asked the question, Christopher White, did indeed write me, but his so-called "rebuke" did not consist of any doctrine, Scripture, or anything else substantial to prove his points. Instead, he went to majority opinion and respecting the persons of worldly "scholarship" as his justification, as you can see for yourself - here is his entire "rebuke" letter:
"After further study of this issue, I have concluded that you are plainly in error. Nobody sir, almost nobody teaches the meaning of repentance  as you do. You have convinced yourself that you can't trust greek, lexicons, dictionaries, bible versions and concordances just so you can avoid the obvious. The fact that a man, with little to no formal seminary training, can thumb his nose at over 500 years of biblical scholarship and then teach a subject in error ( that almost no one else teaches)  is outlandishly arrogant. You are bound as a servant of Christ to examine your teachings and we will all answer for what we teach. May the Lord rebuke you sir, if you do not correct your abhorrent teaching of repentance. I do not expect i'll hear from you again but i'll pray for you."

Of course, majority opinion is rebuked in Scripture as well, especially since the majority of "Bible scholars" in the days of Jesus Christ were against Him too:
"Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:" -Exd 23:2

I answered him thoroughly, and showed him the Scriptural problems with what he was saying, but he refused any further communication with me, and then immediately came to Mike Winger, a student of worldly theology, to help justify himself. That email was sent to me on Mar 11th, 2019, and so this video from Winger took place the following day; demonstrating that White refused communication with me after his "slap-and-run" comments, and then sought out Winger to give him an excuse for doing it.

The reason Mike Winger and Christopher White cling to lexicons is because it gives them an excuse for the pride of their hearts (see Jms 4:6), so they would not have to be humbled to repentance (i.e. grief, or in terms of salvation of mankind, godly sorrow of wrongdoing) before God, and instead believe that their "turning from sin" or "changing their minds" (which is the definition of CONVERT, not repentance) is the foundation of the gospel of Jesus, which is a works-based doctrine. This is why the Holy Spirit has told us in the Word of God that He does not choose the intelligent, lofty, well-educated, and mighty people of this world to preach His Word, but instead, He more often chooses the lowly, foolish, uneducated, and despised to preach, so that no flesh would glory of themselves in their presumed knowledge:
"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence." -1Co 1:26-29

I realize that most of you likely respect the person of Mike Winger, and therefore, you will not hear me out (which, by the way, is sinful if you do that, Jms 2:1 & Jms 2:9, and also against wisdom of God, Pro 18:13), but I can only pray that one of you out there might read this and decide to look into (and study, 2Ti 2:15) the matter yourself because Mike Winger is NOT teaching you to think Biblically. I hope that helps someone.

END OF COMMENT

« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 05:59:19 PM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

MeganIA

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2020, 02:52:03 PM »
I went in to try to find the comment and its missing. I cant say for certain if Mike deleted it as YouTube has either deleted or shadowbanned comments before. I did used to listen to Mike (prior to knowing about the greek scam). I got skeptical of him after he got a wealthy donor to make an app for him. While I dont know what the wealthy donor believed in, it just made me review Mikes doctrine more closely.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

creationliberty

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2020, 06:00:02 PM »
Sorry Megan, some of my post got cut off from the copy/paste I did of White's email. It had one awkward apostrophe in it. I fixed the problem, so you can read the rest of the post. The YT comment is still there.

Why would someone donating the money to build an app for someone make you skeptical?
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Jeanne

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2020, 08:59:39 PM »
I went through all the comments on that video too but I couldn't find yours. If you can still see it, Chris, that tells me it's being shadowbanned, meaning you can see it so you think it's still there but nobody else can.

MeganIA

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2020, 09:26:11 PM »



Why would someone donating the money to build an app for someone make you skeptical?
It was "one very wealthy business man" is the phrased he used. The way he made it sound, the guy gave a blank check for it to be completed at any cost. Not saying the man may or may not have been a Christian. It just got my attention to see if it was possible Mike was teaching something in error to get his attention to do something so big. For all I know, it may have been something true.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

creationliberty

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 11:21:51 AM »
I went through all the comments on that video too but I couldn't find yours. If you can still see it, Chris, that tells me it's being shadowbanned, meaning you can see it so you think it's still there but nobody else can.
It's likely that the channel's owner is holding it because he does not want anyone to see it. That's why I often come here to show you guys what I've written, otherwise, I would be wasting my time. That's also another reason why I do not mess around with social media that much. There are too many ways to get censored for no reason other than the owner does not want to hear the truth, and so at least it can be viewed publicly here.

The attachment will show what I see on my screen.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2020, 03:26:18 PM »
Chris, I couldn't see your comment either.

This is what I think when listening to someone like Mike Winger:
"The Greek, the Greek, the Greek. The understanding of God's word is in "The Greek". If you REALLY want to understand the Bible you should buy some REALLY expensive Bible software and THEN you can be smart LIKE ME."

Needless to say, I don't listen to then for very long.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

anvilhauler

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 06:27:14 PM »
I went through all the comments on that video too but I couldn't find yours. If you can still see it, Chris, that tells me it's being shadowbanned, meaning you can see it so you think it's still there but nobody else can.
It's likely that the channel's owner is holding it because he does not want anyone to see it. That's why I often come here to show you guys what I've written, otherwise, I would be wasting my time. That's also another reason why I do not mess around with social media that much. There are too many ways to get censored for no reason other than the owner does not want to hear the truth, and so at least it can be viewed publicly here.

The attachment will show what I see on my screen.

This Mike Winger who runs the channel is obviously someone who never examines himself as to what kind of person he is, nor does he consider there will be consequences when standing before God for removing from view a sound posting just because it was publicly rebuking him.  Just another one where the person is their own worst enemy.

Hopefully anyone doing a search on his name in the future will read the thread here and understand what kind of a person he is, and I hope he is reading this thread too.  Guilt before God might just bring him to repentance and salvation.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Joshua

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2020, 04:27:39 AM »
Just something small that caught my attention, was the wording of Christopher White's question:
"There's a video going around by Creation Liberty Evangelism, that the word 'repent' (metanoia) means "godly grief and sorrow". I rebuked him, but is there any merit to this teaching?"
I found the ending to that question strange, because it wouldn't make sense for a person to rebuke someone if they didn't know whether or not what they were saying had any merit? 

If this helps Chris, I noticed YouTube has some type of shadowban on me where my comments will not show up if I have a single link in them (they show up when I'm logged in, but not when I log out), however, if I remove all the links, the comment shows up even while logged out.  I'm not sure if that will be the case for you Chris, but if you're interested, you could go to a past comment you made on a different channel containing links, and another comment without any links, then log out of your YouTube account and see if your comment appears to the public; if past comments with links show up on different channels, then you know it's specific to his channel (meaning he held back your comment).  (You can find past YouTube comments by going to your YouTube history, and then clicking "comments" on the right of your screen.)

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psalm 34:18

creationliberty

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 08:05:34 AM »
I saw the same thing you did by White's question. That's why I said: "he refused any further communication with me, and then immediately came to Mike Winger, a student of worldly theology, to help justify himself"

I went back to my comment and rewrote that small paragraph to remove the link. I don't know if that will work, but I believe there is an option on Youtube to prevent any comments with links in them from appearing on the channel. Why there is no notification of these things for users is beyond me.

I tested it on another account and I could see it.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 08:10:40 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2020, 08:29:14 AM »
I've posted a link to "Millions" in a reply to your comment.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 09:23:56 AM »
Same thing; it does not appear on my end. So yes, he shadow blocks comments that have links in them.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2020, 07:56:20 AM »
YouTube heavily promotes Mike Winger.
I had never heard of him and had I'd never watched any of his videos before Chris suggested that 5 minute clip. Since watching that short clip my YouTube video feed has been inundated with Mike Winger video suggestions.

John 15:19 KJV  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

creationliberty

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Re: Mike Winger Asked to Refute My Teaching on Repentance
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2020, 10:31:50 AM »
It's just the algorithm. That's how it works.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18