What can we call the fruits of the Spirit??

[Jephte21]

Hi everyone, I was talking to a group of Mormons last month and they bring up this topic about the fruits of the Spirit and they say that the fruits are feelings (how we felt) , but I didn't know better I tell them they were emotions. In which both parties are in error. I know that love is a selfless sacrifice for another and has nothing to do with feelings. I would love to learn the truth on this matter and know what to call the fruits of the Spirit next time. Could anyone guide me on this, please?

[anvilhauler]

Hi everyone, I was talking to a group of Mormons last month and they bring up this topic about the fruits of the Spirit and they say that the fruits are feelings (how we felt) , but I didn't know better I tell them they were emotions. In which both parties are in error. I know that love is a selfless sacrifice for another and has nothing to do with feelings. I would love to learn the truth on this matter and know what to call the fruits of the Spirit next time. Could anyone guide me on this, please?

Hi Jephte

I'm not so sure I should have posted this as your own Bible study out of a nagging desire to know the answer should have been sufficient.  Are you familiar with the many online Bible sites there are on the internet that are useful to use in study and to be used in conjunction with Bible reading? 


Galatians 5:22-23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

[Jephte21]

Hi Jephte

I'm not so sure I should have posted this as your own Bible study out of a nagging desire to know the answer should have been sufficient.  Are you familiar with the many online Bible sites there are on the internet that are useful to use in study and to be used in conjunction with Bible reading? 

Hi Kevin

I only use CLE for bible study, as Chris teachings are the most thorough and in line with Scripture. Oh.. I also use bible gateway,but that's only when I'm referencing scripture to someone or when I'm looking for bible verses that I forget where they are located. By the way, do you have one that you would like to recommend me that might be helpful?

[Jeanne]

I only use CLE for bible study, as Chris teachings are the most thorough and in line with Scripture. Oh.. I also use bible gateway,but that's only when I'm referencing scripture to someone or when I'm looking for bible verses that I forget where they are located. By the way, do you have one that you would like to recommend me that might be helpful?

I'm concerned that you said you ONLY use CLE for Bible study as you should be reading and studying for yourself and not depending on anyone else for understanding. That what the Holy Spirit is for.

Yes, Chris is very thorough in his explanations, but he's not infallible and neither are the rest of us. CLE is a great place to go for guidance, but no one should depend solely on another person or group of people.

I use Bible Gateway, too, as it is easy to look things up and it's handy for copy/pasting Scripture into emails and forum posts.

[Jephte21]

You are right Jeanne, I should spend some time studying the bible on my own and I will. What tools do you use when you study the Bible, Jeanne?

[anvilhauler]

I only use CLE for bible study, as Chris teachings are the most thorough and in line with Scripture. Oh.. I also use bible gateway,but that's only when I'm referencing scripture to someone or when I'm looking for bible verses that I forget where they are located. By the way, do you have one that you would like to recommend me that might be helpful?

I'm concerned that you said you ONLY use CLE for Bible study as you should be reading and studying for yourself and not depending on anyone else for understanding. That what the Holy Spirit is for.

Yes, Chris is very thorough in his explanations, but he's not infallible and neither are the rest of us. CLE is a great place to go for guidance, but no one should depend solely on another person or group of people.

I use Bible Gateway, too, as it is easy to look things up and it's handy for copy/pasting Scripture into emails and forum posts.

In Bible Gateway you can search for multiple words in a single query.  So in the case of wanting to search where maybe 'fruit' and 'spirit' or words beginning with those strings are in the same "verse" then you can type both of those in to the search bar at the same time.  Doing that search gives three results, Isaiah 32:15, Galatians 5:22 & Ephesians 5:9.

[creationliberty]

I was just in another post telling people that doing a keyword search is not the equivalent of a Bible study, and then I come to this post where people are giving others keyword search tools as a Bible study. I couldn't help but laugh because I don't know how else to react because I was thinking in my mind, "Seriously? No one knows how to tell him what the fruit of the Spirit of God is?"

I mean, I saw this post earlier, but I wait to answer things like this because I like to give everyone else a chance to do so, but... no one really said anything. I've been up working for three hours this morning just answering emails, which means I haven't even gotten to the teachings I'm trying to work on, and that's why sometimes it's helpful if others take the time on these matters so it saves me some time. Look, Galatians 5 is a great place to go to for that topic, starting in verse 16:

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
It says "walk in the Spirit," not "feel in the Spirit." To 'walk' refers to how you live your life. The lusts of the flesh war against the spirit of the mind, which, if you want to learn more about, you can go to the notes I gave on Romans 6-10:
http://creationliberty.com/articles/bookromans02.php

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The fruits of the Spirit of God are opposed to these things, and they who will do them shall not inherit eternal life, which is not to say that we are saved by works, which is why Paul prefaced this to say that those led by the Spirit are not under the law, but those who have been born again are given conviction to not live in such ways, hating sin, even if they commit sin, and are repentant of their sin.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
There are many who feign the love, joy, and peace of Christ, using it as a fishing lure for "salvation," in that they try to bait people into their church buildings by scratching their itching ears to make them feel good, but these fruits of the Spirit cannot be feigned in conversation because the truth of their hearts will come through in the doctrine they profess to believe and teach.
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18

Thus, it is the heart that's the problem. I think others here got distracted when Jephte asked about the fruits of the Spirit, when in short, his real question was how to answer people who claim that their "feelings" are the equivalent of the Holy Spirit. And with that in mind, it might be easier to say:
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
-Jer 17:9
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.
-Pro 21:2
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
-Pro 14:12

[anvilhauler]

I was just in another post telling people that doing a keyword search is not the equivalent of a Bible study, and then I come to this post where people are giving others keyword search tools as a Bible study. I couldn't help but laugh ...

I put my hand up and own up to sending that to Jephte by posting it on the forum but I was only trying to comment that word searches can be useful for quickly finding a reference.  The answers are written all through the scriptures and that was why I was a bit reluctant to send my first posting because I was seeing it not as the answer but rather as a heads up that with searching and reading then the answers aren't too difficult to find.  Cherry picking "verses" is something I am totally against because that is what happened all of the time in the "churches" I have been in in the past and is often used when people want the scriptures to teach what they want them to teach rather than the overall meanings.  In my mind I think in concepts that are interconnected and that never matches too well with people who work in isolated cliches and they have their own agenda.

Nevertheless if I was confronted by some mormons today I would be hard pressed to open a Bible and point out scripture to them without being able to do word searches because I don't tend to easily remember chapter and verse numbers and I tend to only think in concepts.  In writing up as a part of a discussion though I always give references.

Nevertheless I am guilty of doing word searches sometimes and I hope I didn't cause anyone to stumble in any way.

[strangersmind]

I was reply to the post by nate but see now he just copy and paste same thing lol

[Jeanne]

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I had to think about this for a while but when it hit me I wondered why I hadn't seen it right off.

These are not feelings or emotions (both are really the same thing), but character traits.

As you pointed out in your first post, Jephte, love is not a warm fuzzy feeling but 'a.selfless sacrifice for another and has nothing to do with feelings.' Thus, being loving is about how one acts rather than how one feels.

Love and joy and maybe peace are the only ones in this list that are even remotely connected to feelings in the minds of most people.

Joy talks about having a joyful spirit, not joy in the flesh. The same is true of peace.

I'm going to refer to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary to help define some of these others:

LONG'SUF'FERING, adjective Bearing injuries or provocation for a long time; patient; not easily provoked.

MEE'KNESS, noun Softness of temper; mildness; gentleness; forbearance under injuries and provocations.

1. In an evangelical sense, humility; resignation; submission to the divine will, without murmuring or peevishness; opposed to pride, arrogance and refractoriness. Galatians 5:23.

I beseech you by the meekness of Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1.

Meekness is a grace which Jesus alone inculcated, and which no ancient philosopher seems to have understood or recommended.

TEM'PERANCE, noun [Latin temperantia, from tempero.]

1. Moderation; particularly, habitual moderation in regard to the indulgence of the natural appetites and passions; restrained or moderate indulgence; as temperance in eating and drinking; temperance in the indulgence of joy or mirth. temperance in eating and drinking is opposed to gluttony and drunkenness, and in other indulgences, to excess.

I hope this clarifies things a bit more.

[anvilhauler]

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I had to think about this for a while but when it hit me I wondered why I hadn't seen it right off.

These are not feelings or emotions (both are really the same thing), but character traits.

As you pointed out in your first post, Jephte, love is not a warm fuzzy feeling but 'a.selfless sacrifice for another and has nothing to do with feelings.' Thus, being loving is about how one acts rather than how one feels. ...[/size]

Personally I have never seen these things as feelings and emotions so it has been interesting reading this.  This stood out a lot in the "churches" I had been in where their worldly love of singing and music isn't backed up later by their behaviour that comes from the depth of their being and what they really are inside.  After singing their songs they will immediately go and do the opposite of what they have been singing about and will get very angry and abusive if that is pointed out to them.

[creationliberty]

I was reply to the post by nate but see now he just copy and paste same thing lol

I removed his post so it doesn't distract from the topic. He obviously doesn't care about anyone else in their learning of God's Word, or he wouldn't have done such things.

[Jephte21]

It makes sense to me Jeanne to call them Character traits as Noah Webster define Character as:

CHARACTER, noun

4. The peculiar qualities, impressed by nature or habit on a person, which distinguish him from others; these constitute real character, and the qualities which he is supposed to possess, constitute his estimated character, or reputation. Hence we say, a character is not formed, when the person has not acquired stable and distinctive qualities.

I couldn't figure out what to call them on my own. Thanks everyone for your answers they really open my eyes and help me a lot.

[creationliberty]

As far as I know, the word 'character' is not a Biblical term. Why are you going to that instead? They're not "character traits" because that implies that they're just natural. Where is this being said, hang on...
...

These are not feelings or emotions (both are really the same thing), but character traits.

If these were simply natural things, then no one could discern the truth about anyone.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
-Mat 7:20
If it was just natural for a man to have the fruits in the Spirit, then he wouldn't need the Spirit of the first place. Therefore, no one could tell who was of Christ. In fact, temperance, one of the fruits, is the ability to put aside emotion and reason a matter out; the answer is right there in the Scripture.

I don't even know why all this is being taken that far. I gave other Scriptures for addressing the feelings of the heart; so why are we going down this other path? That shouldn't eye-opening, that should be giving us caution that the answer which supposedly "opened your eyes" about the fruits of the Spirit was something that came from OUTSIDE of Scripture.

There are very confusing things about you Jephte, and if you wanted to know why I haven't added you to the born again section, which you wrote me about earlier, these are kind of reasons why I haven't done that. I didn't know what to say in email, which is why I didn't respond, but this is a good example to show what I mean. You go psychologists/psychiatrists, making excuses for "mental disorders" that don't exist, you've told us you take the psychiatric drugs (i.e. sorcery), then you come on to the forum, having a history of making posts that don't show any understanding of God's Word (and you have even used the excuse of being under the influence of psychiatric medications), even though you've been on this forum for years (do you even listen to any of the teachings I give?), and on top of that, you still go to these leavened church buildings where they share new-age music (that you seem to love and treat as Biblical) and then listen to them drone on about their feelings without any thought to getting out of those wicked, leavened places.

Has no one else seen this pattern? There's a serious problem somewhere, and I don't know what to do or say.

[Jeanne]

I didn't mean to imply in any way that the fruits of the spirit were natural, but Jephte seemed to want a way to characterise them, and 'character traits' was the closest I could come to an explanation.

I should have added that it is only by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit working in us that those traits are developed and become who we are in Christ.

I have seen these problems in Jephte, (I seem to recall an incident not too long ago when I got irritated by that and threatened to block/ban him from the forum) but I was trying to be more patient this time by trying to explain something he seemed to be having trouble grasping.

Bottom line, though, the fruits of the Spirit are just that; the fruits of the Spirit and no other explanation is needed.

[strangersmind]

Maybe you guys can talk to him on Skype. See how he talks, his body language. It may be his mind is deeply cloudy do to the drugs. I don't know but my advice is talk to him face to face.

[Jephte21]

As far as I know, the word 'character' is not a Biblical term. Why are you going to that instead? They're not "character traits" because that implies that they're just natural. Where is this being said, hang on...
...

I guess I was too quick to jump to conclusion and I misunderstood the context in which Jeanne called them character traits. Can I say that they are attributes a christian should live by after being born again?

You go psychologists/psychiatrists, making excuses for "mental disorders" that don't exist, you've told us you take the psychiatric drugs (i.e. sorcery), then you come on to the forum, having a history of making posts that don't show any understanding of God's Word (and you have even used the excuse of being under the influence of psychiatric medications), even though you've been on this forum for years

The only time I see a psychiatrists is when I'm going through an episode and sent to the psychiatrists hospital. When I'm out, I just see a counselor and my med provider.

Just to let you know, I spent 4 years fighting against the psychotropic drugs because of the effect they have on me physically and mentally. After I've watched the documentary "The Marketing of Madness: The Truth About Psychotropic Drugs" in your article about cancer I feel more convinced to stay away from the drug, but every time I've tried the symptoms came back and I end up in the psychiatrists hospital which is worst than taking the drug itself. This year, I finally give up and take the meds as prescribe because without them I would be insane. You may think that I say these things as an excuse for bad behavior, but I'm not. after each episode and I came back to reason again and realize what I did even though I was not in my right mind I was brought to tears over my actions and ask God to forgive me for what I did wrong.

you still go to these leavened church buildings where they share new-age music (that you seem to love and treat as Biblical) and then listen to them drone on about their feelings without any thought to getting out of those wicked, leavened places.

Yes, I used to go to the church buildings but since I found CLE I stopped. Just recently, I went to one of my neighbor who is a Mormon I went to his church a couple of time without thinking about what they teach there and found many unbiblical things they do, like taking the communion with water and bread instead of grape juice, they believe that the devil is not a Cherub as the bible said but is like one of us, and they teach funny anecdotes etc... After I've shared the article on Mormonism with them(the missionaries and my Mormon neighbor) and they rejected it. I sanctified myself from them.

Now about the new-age music, yes I like to listen to contemporary style of music. I used to have a bunch of CCM music on my Ipad after reading your post I deleted most of them. I don't want to offend God by me lifestyle and I want to honor him in everything I do. I'm still learning to put aside how I feel about this songs and clean the inside of the cup so the outside can be clean also.

1 Corinthians 14:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.