Former-Friend Teaching New-Age Garbage

[creationliberty]

Do you guys remember in the teachings I've done that I've talked about a pastor who I rebuked on his false doctrine of tithe, and he rejected it? This same guy was making facebook posts teaching things that completely contradicted Scripture, and when I would publically rebuke him, he would remove the entire post (not just my comment; the ENTIRE post) so no one could see it. He kept tuck his tail between his legs and running away, instead of facing the truth of the Word of God.

His name is Sean Rose, and he is currently (as of 2018) attending and pastoring at a church building called "Fishers Point" in Fishers, Indiana. He's a music pastor, and this is the same guy that when I rebuked his false doctrine, he responded to me "You don't know our church! You haven't been to one of our worship sessions!" -- even though the Lord Jesus Christ told us to beware of their doctrine, not beware of their songs.
Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees... Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. -Mat 16:6-12

God told the Jews that if they would not heed His Word then they should take away their songs from Him because He would not hear them:
Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.
-Amos 5:23-24

The last contact I had with him, I rebuked him for hiding his false doctrine from his churchgoer buddies, and said, "The paycheck's too good isn't it?" -- meaning that the money (1Ti 6:10) and the preeminence (3Jo 1:9 respect of his position) were more important to him than the truth of God's Word. I still believe this is the case, and that Sean has never come to repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing). Since that time, every few months, I have searched the internet to try and find one of his teachings that may have been recorded so I could actually analyze his doctrine, and it's been a few months, but I decided to look again tonight and I found something.

(He won't listen to any of my teachings, of which I have hundreds, but I've been searching for just one of his because I'm willing to listen.)
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. -Acts 17:11

If those of you born again in Christ would not mind taking a look, I would love to have your analysis of this. I'll warn you that he's in a new-age, leavened, lukewarm 501c3 Nazarene church building, he uses new-age bible versions, and he's incredibly vague, especially in the first few minutes.

I know there are some of you who have a bad habit of just make typical vague comments. Please don't. This isn't social media. If you aren't going to analyze what's being said and give specific feedback, then please don't comment at all. Thanks.

[creationliberty]

I would like to comment and point out that he doesn't define "bitterness" because it has an assortment of meanings depending on the context. He flat-out tells people, "Obviously, bitterness is bad." Bitter can be good or bad, but again, it depends on the context.

For example, in terms of repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing), bitterness is good:
O daughter of my people, gird thee with sackcloth, and wallow thyself in ashes: make thee mourning, as for an only son, most bitter lamentation: for the spoiler shall suddenly come upon us.
-Jeremiah 6:26

But in a nutshell, he's basically preaching the "love, joy, peace, happiness" doctrine, without the message of repentance; or rather, he leads people away from repentance without defining his terms. Thus far, I'm seeing him preach "wisdom of words" rather than the Gospel, and making the Word of God of none effect:
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
-1Co 1:17

Although he never directly defines "bitterness," he does use some words interchangeably to imply meaning. For example, he uses bitterness and "anger," meaning that he is defining it as anger, but there again, anger can be good or bad depending on the context. He also uses bitterness interchangeably with "the hard things in life," but then doesn't really define the "hard things in life" because again, the more vague he is, the more subjective (i.e. based on the listener's person opinions) the teaching becomes, which makes it impossible to prove him wrong because he's not really saying anything.

He spends more time quote medical science and new-age "Christian" authors than he does quoting the Word of God. I try not to do that; I try to make sure that my teachings are packed full of God's Word and rebuke of unrighteousness. I can only hope that I'm not found to be a hypocrite on that matter, and that the Lord Jesus Christ would keep my eyes open to the truth.

@12:07 - That pretty much sums up new-age lukewarm leavened preaching for entertainment purposes. At least he's working for wages.

He says, "If you have unforgiveness in your heart, you're going to find your place in bitterness." That's not what Jesus taught; Jesus said you'd find your place in hell:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
-Mat 6:15
I'm more than willing to forgive Sean, but he has to come to repentance, and again, repentance is not part of his message because he does not understand the Word. I would love to be reconciled with Sean, but he fights against the Word, therefore, I cannot yoke together with him until he has a heart of repentance, and with each passing day, he sinks deeper into the mire of leaven.
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
-Luke 17:3-4

He also says you don't have the "prerogative" to withhold forgiveness. As you can see, he loves using fancy terms that many simple people don't know what they mean. He's saying they don't have the "right" to withhold forgiveness, but I ask, "Where does the Bible say that?" Men may not be IN the right to withhold forgiveness, but claiming they don't have the freedom to do so is ridiculous as best.

He quotes from his new-age version (which if I remember right, he told me he uses ESV), he says whenever you "face trials of any kind," but the King James says:
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
-James 1:2-3
He's gone way off of what this verse says because he's using new-age bible versions.

By the way, at this point, I'd also like to point out that preaches in the EXACT SAME WAY that every other Nazarene preacher I've ever heard speaks from the pulpit. Very flamboyant, always looking to entertain his audience and keep their attention. Folks, I don't have to do that. You guys see me speak very plainly, and I don't have to struggle to keep your attention because I'm simply giving you the facts--this guy, however, has to try and keep your attention because what he's saying is slow and boring that's it's hard stay awake.

WOW! He said it! I shouldn't be surprised, but it still does surprise me. You guys know how many times I've said, in reference to preachers who are wasting everyone's time with the milk of the Word, story telling, and anecdotes, "How do we have more faith when we get a flat tire?" He just said it @12:35. That's my point. He said his message was to help them "lean on Jesus" when "their car breaks down."

I might make a second post, I'll stop this one so it's not too long.

[Severius Brandusa]

Thank you for the heads-up, Christopher. I'll analyze what he's saying and get back to you on that.

[creationliberty]

At about 20 minutes, he starts playing the Greek game and using his new-age lexicons and concordances, attempting to reinterpret God's Word to his liking. This is what he was taught to do in his cemetery college. Likely, he's only had introductory courses to Greek and Hebrew, so he's just relying on those concordances and fools people into thinking he knows Greek and Hebrew, when he doesn't.
The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances
How to Play the Greek Game

Then he switches gears big time. He now starts talking about being "perfect." He tries to change that word to "mature," which is what typical new-age false preachers do, even though, "mature" also has the meaning to be "brought to a perfect state." Why change the word then? Because they don't mean "perfect" when they say "mature," otherwise they would just say "perfect" as the Bible says.

It is possible to live perfectly while still erring on occasion; it's through a repentant heart that trusts on the Lord Jesus Christ and His righteousness, but that's not what they teach. Instead, those false teachers have to play the Greek game to bring in lots of confusion so everyone has to come to them to get answers.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. -1Jo 2:27

He says he lives in a one bedroom apartment. Praise God for that. I say that because when Lorraine and I last visited them, they lived in an extremely lavish three bedroom home, two stories with a garage in a fancy neighborhood next to a golf course. Lorraine and I couldn't figure out how they were affording it. I'm glad they downsized after having a baby to something more reasonable.

Then he goes on talking about watching the Olympics, and thereby, encouraging and enforcing confidence in those to watch the Olympics. He asked the audience, "Did anyone know there was the Olympics?" He asks it almost as a joke. I didn't take that as a joke; I actually did not know there was the Olympics. I don't watch it because I don't care and I've got better things to do, like studying the Word of God instead of a corrupt lexicons and new-age "Christianese" authors.

He poses a question, "What if the Olympian gave up on the hard training and went out to eat a cheeseburger?" Forgive my blunt manner, but that's a really stupid question. They wouldn't be at the Olympics in that training center if they had made such a decision. They would have made that decision in the first hour of their training back when they were 10 years old; not right before a competition. These are just the senseless "wisdom of words" new-age garbage that Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that people don't seek pleasure over pain. That's generally correct. Sean focused on Hebrews 12, but if you go to the previous chapter:
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
-Hebrews 11:25
Why didn't he preach that if he was going to preach on pleasure vs pain? I know the answer to that. It's not the positively feel-good message that helps the people in that audience justify their sin and worldly pleasures; pleasures, some of which, I know Sean participates in. (I'm not here to embarrass him personally, but I know.) I've also been guilty of some of those pleasures, and I praise God that He gave me repentance to the acknowledging of the truth, and I would pray He does the same for Sean.

I just have to comment on how many times he quotes portions of verses, and then fills in the blanks with his own interpretation. I can't stand listening to preachers who do that, and that's why you guys can hear me read the whole verse to you out loud, and defining each of the words in the context in which they are used. I have to pray that the Lord God would bring Sean to repentance so he can gain understanding, but he said he's going back into his cemetary college to be a "counselor." I don't know if the Lord God will give him repentance, but I want to pray for it if peradventure (by chance) He will.

All this garbage is really coming from his "masters in counseling," not from the Word of God. I, at one time, also sought out a degree in counseling, but I gave that up quickly when I realized how fruitless it was, and after studying the Word of God, I realized that degrees don't make a man a good counselor; it's fear of the Lord and knowledge of the holy.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
-Pro 9:10
But they won't let him be a "counselor" in these church buildings unless he has a degree. Don't forget that.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
-1Co 1:26-29

Then he gives the same metaphorical reference I've heard hundreds of times from Nazarene pulpits: the silversmith that filters out the silver until he sees is reflection in it. He's just repeating what he's learned from other Nazarene pastors; where they don't preach the Gospel, they just give feel-good anecdotes.

I'd also like to point out that their piano player is incredibly obese. Obviously, no one cares about her to rebuke her in terms of gluttony and for her health.
The Biblical Understanding of Fasting

[Jeanne]

What he said at the very beginning stood out to me, too. He said 'I'm not the primary speaker this morning. The primary speaker is the Holy Spirit... I may not have what you need but He does.' Then here's the kicker: '...if you find something wrong with me along the way, that you will stay in submission to what the Spirit may have for you.'

He just basically absolved himself of all responsibility for anything he says after that. He ASSUMES that the Holy Spirit is speaking through him (or at least, that's what he's telling the congregation) so you need to listen to the Spirit and not just his words because even if what he says is wrong, God is still going to use it. That's how I interpret what he just said there, anyway.

[Severius Brandusa]

His entire sermon was nothing but cliches and fluff. I've heard every one of his relativisms before from other water-downed preachers. Especially the Olympic athlete one and a variation of his 'fighting gravity' example. It was incredibly hard to sit through because there was no meat or understanding to be gained from it. In fact, I couldn't even call it milk because he never taught what one must do to be saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. I'd call it "artificial, powdered milk."

 

Something that was obnoxious was how he would keep on repeating the phrase, "I'm not preaching yet" or I haven't started preaching yet" when his speech was already close to being two-thirds of the way through. Then, when he finally said, "Now I'm going to start preaching", he would also repeat that phrase over-and-over again. I thought he would have realized that nobody found the joke to be funny, especially not the tenth time around. I also think that the reason he would repeat that phrase is because in his mind he thought that he was actually preaching "hard" to the congregation when, in reality, the audience could not have gained anything of any Biblical substance that would have truly enriched their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

His sermon also reminded me about how Christopher mentions how these wishy-washy preachers say things like, "How can we have more faith when our lawnmower breaks down?" The guy's speech was a patchwork of other new-age preachers' anecdotal-filled sermons. He was unoriginal in all his examples and appeared to be more worried about drawing out laughter and relatable emotions from his audience than he was for actually having something real to say to them. He truly wasted everyone's time with a speech that was very forgettable. The Holy Spirit doesn't waste time, and especially doesn't waste time telling bad jokes for cheap laughs.

 

Also, when he acted to the hearers as though he knew Greek in context, he wasn't even able to give an example of the word "teleios" in daily-life and fumbled around trying to do so. And in the end, he didn't even give a proper understanding of the Greek, making that whole part of his sermon doubly futile and vain.

 

The difference between Biblical preaching and a charismatic sermon is the difference between heaven and hell.

[Masha]

I have tried to get  through the video but I never got to the end.
To much jibberish, blabla, personal opinion and clearly not based on Gods word, but on him as a person. Could not see, hear, feel or perceive the Holy Spirit to be working, and I stopped wasting my time.
Someone who says, it is not me but the Holy Spirit that will talk to you, before anything is said, and then fills up the time with clichee and personal teinted anekdotes....how on earth is the Holy Ghost of Truth ever able to 'speak' through that?? I strongly convicted the Holy Ghost speaks mainly through Gods word.
I do not believe we have anything to gain from this video. Chris, you are being merciful with the man to take time to rebuke him. Im sorry iff he was your friend, it could well be he is not saved.

[anvilhauler]

I've watched up to the 13 min mark so far   ......  I'll watch the rest probably tomorrow night.  I can't stand the guy.  To me he's just another one talking loads of airy fairy rubbish so far. 

Some notes I have made while watching so far:

He goes on about bitterness but there is no definition of bitterness.

Commenting about physical heart problems being caused by bitterness    ......   that is rather vague    .......   what if the stress is caused by the consequences of someone else lying and falsely accusing an innocent person.  Since he wants to talk about people avoiding pain then he might want to mention a liar who avoids the pain of owning up and causing anguish for the falsely accused.  This guy has no depth of understanding. 

Hmmm, so lets see.  A person's "bitterness" isn't just about them it affects others    ......   well so does the above mentioned false convert who tells outright lies against an innocent person affect others as it causes an honest and valuable person to be cut out of the congregation and also allows a wolf to stay in the congregation to cause more damage.  Hence that it is important to get to the root of matters and not trimming of the perceived little tips of the outer branches.

This is also what sets CLE apart from the other "churches" out there that the Word of God is read sequecially book by book with discussion along the way and a verse here and a verse there is not just cherry picked out for the talker to say what they want to say and for scripture to mean whatever they want it to mean. 

[creationliberty]

Ya know Kevin, that was one thing that was strange to me; he never really did address the "avoiding pain" subject. It's like he started to, then stopped. That was supposed to be, based on his premise, the main subject. I think you brought up a good point about the liar, but here's the question I have: Do any of you recall him mentioning sin at any time? I don't think he ever mentioned sin, and that's a telltale sign of new-age churchianity where no one wants to clean up their lives and sanctify themselves.

[Suelong88]

From the start he just seems very conceited.  Starts out with a lie and then laughs it off.  The comment about the Holy Spirit is speaking through me.  Like it's a blanket statement that everything he says is ordained by God.

Stay in submission (to what he claims is from the Holy Spirit) even if what I'm saying goes against the Bible.

Wow, he has a lot to say and uses a lot of words, but doesn't really say anything.

So he's getting his message from a book written by men.  Not the Bible.  6 minutes in and he hasn't quoted the Bible yet.

So he's picking apart the Bible and taking it out of context.  Let's find all the verses about bitterness and pick the ones that are 'bad' and make a 'sermon' about it. 

How about you read an entire passage and teach on what that entire passage is talking about.

But then you wouldn't be able to tie in stand-up comedy.

It's hard for me to take any of this seriously.

Protest reality?  He still hasn't said anything.

Oh here it is....not preaching on bitterness,  is it about unforgiveness?  Where does he get that unforgiveness leads to bitterness?

Still not preaching the message.  15 1/2 minutes in and this isn't even the message?  He keeps saying that, but I don't really think he knows what preaching is.  Well, maybe preaching.  But he certainly isn't teaching anything.

Everyone in the congregation just nods in agreement...

And I can guarantee that the Holy Spirit is NOT speaking through him.  He hasn't said anything about Christ yet.

James 1....when he starts preaching...18 minutes in.

Wow 20 minutes in he's about to start preaching...but wait...apparently he's kidding.

Still not preaching...22 minutes in.

So not James 1...Galations...still not preaching...23 min in

I am completely put off by him saying every 30 seconds I'm not preaching yet.

Now he's going to start preaching....24 minutes.  Endure..we have endured a bunch of nonsense up to this point.   

Oh my goodness, he hasn't said anything.  Still not preaching...or is he?  So confused about what he is trying to say.

Apparently he thinks lying is entertainment.

More scripture...so not James 1 (which he said was going to be his main point.)  But now it's endurance...oh  building character.

Is he teaching 5 year olds? 

He's very condescending...

I'm so confused...oh maybe now I'll understand since he's about to start preaching....32 min in.

The Holy Spirit wouldn't be this vague.  And he would point you always to Christ.  I think Sean mentioned Christ once.


I don't think he ever actually starting preaching.  He said a lot of things that don't really make any sense.

He never actually gives an answer to the issue.  So I guess you can figure all of this out without Jesus.  Everthing he said was about him....nothing to say to turn to Christ.  Cast your cares on Him. 

What a phony!

[Suelong88]

I also agree with Masha that there isn't much evidence of him being saved.

[creationliberty]

I guess that's one thing I forgot to mention is that he talked about "unforgiveness leads to bitterness," but that implies that forgiveness is supposed to be automatic. That's not what Christ taught; He taught forgiveness is in direct correlation with repentance (i.e. grief and sorrow of wrongdoing) from the guilty person.
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. -Luke 17:3-4

[ericmonge84345]

Isn't the new-age church-ianity preaching against "shame", also?

Proverbs 27 says, 7 "The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet."

Acts 5 41 "And they depart from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name(Jesus).

[creationliberty]

Eric, please read the post:
"I know there are some of you who have a bad habit of just make typical vague comments. Please don't. This isn't social media. If you aren't going to analyze what's being said and give specific feedback, then please don't comment at all. Thanks."

[anvilhauler]

A couple of nights ago I listened to another 3 minutes of the teaching and made these extra notes.  I got busy on other stuff last night so didn't get to post them or to watch more of the talk.

He's working on a Masters in counselling.  A qualification.  Therefore who actually assesses the work you do and if it scores a pass or not.  Under this dissertation or thesis in "counselling" what is a favourable outcome for a pass?  What is a poor outcome of the counselling that scores a fail?  The only people that could mark or grade the thesis would be people who are highly esteemed in this subjective and not objective field of "counselling".  I guess it's just a matter of getting all the cliche ducks lined up in a row.  What is the entry criteria for someone wanting to do the Masters degree in counselling?  Is it just someone saying, Ooooh, I wouldn't mind having a go at that?  Wow, a certificate on the wall to say that one is now a qualified counsellor !!  Neat power trip and totally the opposite of humility.  It would look good on the wall though beside the certificate for 25 yards breaststroke that they got when they were 7 years old.

Ephesians 4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

No, I'm not seeing counsellors on the list here.  Probably best in that case just to point the person to a whole lot of scriptures that will let them know that the Holy Spirit/Jesus/The Father in Heaven is the one we should be taking our lively concerns to (i.e. pastoral work).  Especially if the person seeking counsel might actually have a hidden life long problem with dishonesty and the clever manipulation of others to get their own way and lately things have been falling apart and things aren't going so well for them.  The serious issues in life would make (do make) a complete mockery of a Masters in Counselling.  Don't let this guy near your family   .....  actually   ......   don't let this guy near anyone.

Likewise as all of the others commented this phrase of "when I start preaching".  If the concept/meaning of teaching and preaching are used interchangeably then he started as soon as he opened his mouth at the beginning.  What kind of a person would want to say something like this to those who are listening?

Oh no, not the Greek meanings.  Luckily I don't know Greek   .....  and don't really want to know Greek   .....  apart from some of the recipes I have tried in my Greek cookbook and they are very nice too   ......  but the interest pretty much stops there.