Is the bible a book about a chosen race??

[Wesley]

Reading the bible from start to finish I cannot help see a chosen people being set apart from the very begining, their struggles, wars, their captivities, their migrations, their prophets and prophecy of what will happen to them.

Does anyone else see this or am I suffering from racist tendencies?
Thanks

[Jeanne]

Hi Wesley,

First of all, when you joined the forum, you signed an agreement to abide by the rules. The first rule is that you MUST post an introduction in the 'Introduce Yourself' section so that we know who you are and what you believe.

To answer your question very briefly, yes God did choose the people of Israel to show the rest of the world who He is and how we are to worship Him and what He requires of us. Most of the time, they didn't do such a good job of that, though, and God punished them for it. Without Israel and their history, however, we wouldn't have the Bible.

There's a lot more that could be said about this but it's nearly 2 am here right now and I just thought I'd check the forum before going to bed.

[Wesley]

Hi Jeanne, thank you for replying to my question and please accept my apology for not reading the rules (I have included a brief greeting and name introduction).

Is Israel in modern day terms the same as Israel in the bible or what were and still are a people named in the bible is now the same as a geographical area upon earth?

Im confused as to the identity of the Chosen race or chosen people.
Are Jews, Israelites, Judeans, Judahites and Hebrews one and the same?

Apologies for the repeated questions.

[anvilhauler]

Hi Wesley

A welcome to the forum from me too.

When you write "race" that is possibly not the best choice of word for the situation as man we are all of the race of mankind.  Abraham didn't have any special qualities that God chose him to be the father of a nation that was to lead the way for His plan of redemption for mankind.  Here was a man who was old.  His wife was old.  They couldn't have children.  You'll do.  And so the plan for the Israelites and the following redemption began.  It was also known that through Abraham all of the nations of the world would be blessed and that of course was through Jesus who is and was the Christ who would bring redemption for all of mankind through the covenant in Jesus' blood that was shed on the cross and His resurrection from the dead. 

Although the descendants of the children of Jacob are scattered through the world and have lost their identity (especially the ten Northern tribes) God knows exactly who they are and the time is coming when God will bring them back in to Israel the land that was promised to them.  That God has not finished with the children of Israel is highlighted in Revelation where there will be twelve thousand from each of the tribes of Israel who will be sealed with a seal of God and will go out throughout the world preaching the gospel of the kingdom to all who live on the face of the earth.

Revelation 7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

As for the rest of us.

Colossians 3 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

[Jeanne]

Kevin, did you have to create a new account? I just noticed that your other posts have you listed as 'guest'.

[Wesley]

Kevin, did you have to create a new account? I just noticed that your other posts have you listed as 'guest'.

Who is Kevin?

[creationliberty]

Everyone's name is listed out on the side, where you were required to give your first name.

[anvilhauler]

Hi Jeanne

Thanks for notifying me of that.  Yes I did have to create a new account quite a while back but on my browser it does show my name beside my postings.  I'll have a further look at my profile.  (Amending this posting.)  I don't think there is anything I can do about it Jeanne.  Are you or Chris or another of the administrators able to add me to the members list?

Apology if I caused any confusion Wesley.  A couple of forum re-creations ago I took the opportunity and changed the name I use as I realised people from the "church" I used to attend might be able find my name in the forum via Google searches and quite frankly I'm finished with those people and would prefer to never have anything to do with any of them ever again. 

Rgrds
Kevin

[Wesley]

Thanks for replies.

& its ok Kevin, thanks for answering.

[smolemong]

In 1 Peter 2:9 -10 it says "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: [10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." If you read  chapter one, verse one it clarifies that the audience is Galatian, Asian etc so I believe that although the people Peter is speaking to might comprise Hebrews it is not very likely they ALL would have been so even though Peter is traditionally known as the Apostle to the Jews referred to in the Bible as "the circumcision" (Galatians 2:7-8). So technically I would say yes, the Bible is a book about a race, it is about the  race of mankind, about our frailty and inability to walk in obedience to HIM and it is about GOD'S grand plan to rescue this race. There is something I would like you to consider with regards to your statement about race as I perceive you to mean it; even before CHRIST came any tribe etc could choose to follow the GOD of the Israelites (I believe these were referred to as proselytes) as evidenced in Acts 8 from verse 26, the man Philip spoke to was an Ethiopian who came to Jerusalem to worship. Ethiopia is a country located in the eastern corner of Africa it is unlikely that he was anything other than Black. This tells me that GOD'S people are those who HE has chosen and who choose HIM and this is illustrated often in the Bible. In closing, "Revelation 7:9 KJV After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Revelation 7:13-14 KJV
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[Jeanne]

Also, remember, that when God led the Israelites out of Egypt under Moses, there were people of other nations among them, too. Leviticus 17 talks about the law applying to the Israelites and to the 'strangers which sojourn among you.' So even these people were considered part of Israel at that time.

Rahab was from Jericho and Ruth was a Moabitess yet both were in the line leading to David and ultimately, to Jesus Christ Himself.

[anvilhauler]

Revelation 7:4-8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

A while back when writing back to Wesley I wrote about the 12,000 of the children from each of the tribes of Israel being sealed and sent out in to the world to preach the kingdom.  One of the interesting points I didn't put in was that the tribe of Dan is not represented in the list.

I thought I would just put that out there in case anyone found it to be an interesting topic for further discussion.

[Jeanne]

A while back when writing back to Wesley I wrote about the 12,000 of the children from each of the tribes of Israel being sealed and sent out in to the world to preach the kingdom.  One of the interesting points I didn't put in was that the tribe of Dan is not represented in the list.

I thought I would just put that out there in case anyone found it to be an interesting topic for further discussion.

That's something I've noticed and wondered about, too. Joseph and Manasseh (who was a son of Joseph) are mentioned but I've always wondered what happened to Dan.

[anvilhauler]

That's something I've noticed and wondered about, too. Joseph and Manasseh (who was a son of Joseph) are mentioned but I've always wondered what happened to Dan.

And having Manasseh but not Ephraim, but then adding one more would make it thirteen groups sealed and not twelve unless another of the tribes was dropped off the list.

[Jeanne]

I just assumed Ephraim would have been lumped in with Joseph since he was Joseph's other son but I could be wrong about that.

One of the golden calves that Jeroboam set up was in Dan so I don't know if that would have anything to do with it or not...

[anvilhauler]

I just assumed Ephraim would have been lumped in with Joseph since he was Joseph's other son but I could be wrong about that.

One of the golden calves that Jeroboam set up was in Dan so I don't know if that would have anything to do with it or not...

Yes, Ephraim and Manasseh both effectively come under Joseph.  Also that it says ALL of the tribes of Israel.  Although Dan was one of the worst tribes of Israel all of the rest were also evil and wicked to the point that they also were sent into exile.

Revelation 7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Just one of those things of interest but nothing to get too hung up over as it doesn't change the message of the gospel in any way.

[strangersmind]

God tell us why he pick Israel as his people.  It was because they were the smallest and the weakest. He did that to show his glory and power. There is 12 tribes of Israel because one was not to be numbered other have an heritage. So 13 all together but one not to be numbered.

[Christopher_Belflower]

Revelation 7:4-8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

A while back when writing back to Wesley I wrote about the 12,000 of the children from each of the tribes of Israel being sealed and sent out in to the world to preach the kingdom.  One of the interesting points I didn't put in was that the tribe of Dan is not represented in the list.

I thought I would just put that out there in case anyone found it to be an interesting topic for further discussion.

Kevin,

This is an interesting topic;
There are several peculiarities regarding that list:

144,000 appears to represent the totality of God's people, as this discussion has eluded to: God's elect are those who have faith in Christ of all people-groups.
Without the seal of God, you are automatically taking the mark of the beast.
Your forehead (thoughts) and your hands (actions) do that of your father the devil when you have not Christ.
If you are sealed (in the Spirit) - you have an inheritance. If not, you have the mark of the beast (justified by the flesh) and you get judgement.

However, back to the list, have you noticed:
- There is no tribe of Ephraim, No tribe of Dan, and the tribe of Levi is also absent.
- Also tribe of Joseph is an interesting addition.
- There is also something peculiar about the arrangement of the list.

I believe Juda reprints Christ, the firstfruits, therefore He is listed first.

I am in the middle of an extensive study of Matthew 24 right now; once that is complete, I will be going line by line through Revelation and would love to continue this discussion at that time.

Chris

[anvilhauler]

However, back to the list, have you noticed:
- There is no tribe of Ephraim, No tribe of Dan, and the tribe of Levi is also absent.
- Also tribe of Joseph is an interesting addition.
- There is also something peculiar about the arrangement of the list.

Chris

Yes, it's an interesting list and that's the reason I posted it for discussion. 

Levi isn't missing though.  Eighth one down on the list   


Thanks Chris

Kevin

[Christopher_Belflower]

Kevin,
Thanks for pointing out my error. What I meant to say was the tribe of Levi is not mentioned in Numbers Chapter 1 but it is mentioned in Rev. 7

I have little notes of strange things that caught my attention in the past that the Lord has not revealed the meaning or understanding to me yet so I haven't done anything with them.

Here is what I had noticed:

Tribes in Numbers 1:5-15
And these are the names of the men that shall stand with you:
Of the tribe
1. of Reuben  - Rev 7 (2nd)
2. Of Simeon  - Rev 7 (7th)
3. Of Judah  - Rev 7 (1st)
4. Of Issachar  - Rev 7 (9th)
5. Of Zebulun  - Rev 7 (10th)
6. Of the “children” of Joseph:  - Rev 7 (11th)
6A. of Ephraim? Is Ephraim part of Joseph and why does it say “children”?
7. of Manasseh  - Rev 7 (6th)
8. Of Benjamin  - Rev 7 (12)
9. Of Dan - Not in Rev
10. Of Asher - Rev 7 (4th)
11. Of Gad  - Rev 7 (3rd)
12. Of Naphtali  Rev 7 (5th)
Levi  - Rev 7 only (8th)

I will probably begin my study in Revelation at the beginning of September, starting from Chapter 1 and could probably use your help!

Chris