Woman Heaping to Herself Many Corrupt Teachers

[creationliberty]

ROSE FROM "USA"
Wondering if you are familiar with the ministry of Zac Poonen?  He preaches from a church the Lord gave him in India.  Since the Lord graciously opened my eyes to come out of the institutionalized church fairly recently, I've been listening to the teaching of Zac Poonen because he preaches the gospel of the cross/Self denial which, as you well know, is not taught in most churches across America.

I am wondering if you able to help me out with discernment here, as I just listening to this message he preached on repentance, he does not address godly sorrow over sin as you do but a 100% turning from sin.  If you have time or interest -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwrpz6Cv70E&feature=emb_rel_end

He does not take an offering in his church and seems to have strict guidelines to even refusing a gift from non believers.
https://www.cfcindia.com/our-financial-policy

Now I sense the Holy Spirit possibly leading me away from his ministry since I just learned that his son has a ministry in Colorado and they are State incorporated.  Zac Poonen does conferences here also at his son's church.
https://http://rlcfchurch.org/

I really hate to think that he is double minded as I've learned much from his teachings in a short time.  However, I also know I've been deceived about many things for a long period of time and do not want to be deceived any longer.

Please let me know if you able to help me discern the truth about this ministry and if the Spirit might lead you to share the truth about the 501c3 deception to
them, in case they might be truly ignorant of the danger in it.

Thanks for all the hard work you've done to help us not be deceived in a world filled full to brim with it.
Wondering if you are familiar with the ministry of Zac Poonen?
No.

He preaches from a church the Lord gave him in India.  Since the Lord graciously opened my eyes to come out of the institutionalized church fairly recently, I've been listening to the teaching of Zac Poonen because he preaches the gospel of the cross/Self denial which, as you well know, is not taught in most churches across America. I am wondering if you able to help me out with discernment here, as I just listening to this message he preached on repentance, he does not address godly sorrow over sin as you do but a 100% turning from sin.  If you have time or interest -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwrpz6Cv70E&feature=emb_rel_end
Well, if that is the case, then he is preaching works doctrine. I have not opened the video, but if you testify that he has taught turning from sin is repentance, then he teaches works to salvation. I'm in the middle of other work right now, and it would take me most of the day to sit down and critique an entire hour-long teaching, so if there is a particular time stamp you can give me (e.g. "Chris, would you respond to his comments from 23:00-24:00 min?"), that would be very helpful.

He does not take an offering in his church and seems to have strict guidelines to even refusing a gift from non believers. https://www.cfcindia.com/our-financial-policy
His first statement is contradictory:
"A genuine work of God may use money, but it is never dependent on money. It is dependent only on the power of the Holy Spirit. Where any work is dependent on money, it is not a genuine work of God."
I understand what he's trying to say, but the problem is that, for example, a man who builds a shelter in the city for the homeless has electricity, water, and taxes they have to pay for, which is dependent on money, so his first paragraph is immediately turning me away from his ministry because he obviously lacks understanding. Because there are so many instances in which such a statement could be contradicted, it is dangerous to make such statements in the first place, and such statements are actually based on the so-called "wisdom" of men, not based on the Word of God.

Now I sense the Holy Spirit possibly leading me away from his ministry since I just learned that his son has a ministry in Colorado and they are State incorporated.  Zac Poonen does conferences here also at his son's church. https://http://rlcfchurch.org/
Well, if he's based out of India, he probably does not understand the matter. Also, I would just stick to judging the man's doctrine, which he teaches from his own mouth, because you cannot judge a man for what his son chooses to do, otherwise, you would have to condemn King David.

I really hate to think that he is double minded as I've learned much from his teachings in a short time.  However, I also know I've been deceived about many things for a long period of time and do not want to be deceived any longer.
All truth and knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit of God, not from men. That goes for what I teach as well:
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
-1Jo 2:26-27
That is why it is better not to create loyalty to a particular man, but to create loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please let me know if you able to help me discern the truth about this ministry and if the Spirit might lead you to share the truth about the 501c3 deception to them, in case they might be truly ignorant of the danger in it.
I do not know this man, I do not know anything about his ministry, I have never heard of any of these people or their organizations, and the conviction seems to be coming from you, not from me. So if God has given you conviction, there is no reason to pass the burden of that conviction on my shoulders; rather, you should take that up if you have been given that passion to do so.

Thanks for all the hard work you've done to help us not be deceived in a world filled full to brim with it.
I'm glad the Lord Jesus Christ has allowed me to be of some service to you in that manner.
ONE MONTH LATER...
Hi Chris,
Just thought I would take a minute and thank you for helping me in regard to discerning the spirit of this ministry.  The Lord has been gracious to open the eyes of my heart to come out from among them. 

FYI,  if it matters, I neither had a conviction, nor was I trying to place a burden on your shoulders in regard to revealing revelation regarding 501c3 to this church.  I was merely asking in light of your expertise on the matter and in dealing with those who become offended if it was something the Lord might allow you the privilege of doing.   I do apologize for the misunderstanding and for not making myself more clear in the matter regarding my conviction and passion.

While I appreciate your ministry and all that you are doing to help those misled, if your heart is open I would ask if you might consider looking at the following teaching regarding Repentance.  I must admit that I came away a bit dismayed with your teaching on this subject.  While I appreciate your overwhelming emotional response, I don't think God has designed each of us to have exactly the same response to His grace as you were graciously allowed to experience.

https://blowthetrumpet.com.au/the-way-of-salvation/

https://blowthetrumpet.com.au/biblical-repentance-part-1/

https://blowthetrumpet.com.au/the-power-of-a-surrendered-life/

Sincerely In Christ and For His Glory, may the Lord continue to bless you abundantly.
NOTE: I knew her letter was deceptive by many reasons, and that she did not understand what she was talking about, but I chose to respond as charitably as I could to see what she would say and/or do.
While I appreciate your ministry and all that you are doing to help those misled, if your heart is open I would ask if you might consider looking at the following teaching regarding Repentance.  I must admit that I came away a bit dismayed with your teaching on this subject.  While I appreciate your overwhelming emotional response, I don't think God has designed each of us to have exactly the same response to His grace as you were graciously allowed to experience.
I need to ask you some questions first before I look over those things: By the phrase "emotional response," I take that to mean that you listened to the audio teaching I did on the subject (i.e. as opposed to reading the article teaching). Is that correct?

Did you listen to only part 1 and stop? Or did you listen to the entire series and check out the Scripture I provided? Here is the entire playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbY08k2vP8_nXQtC1izDN_p7lutKuX9OI
I am assuming that you listened to all of it, and not just part, since you have indicated that you are a dedicated servant of Christ, and the Bible says:
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
-Pro 18:13
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
-Col 3:23

Moving forward on the assumption that you would only respond after hearing the entire matter, what specifically did you have a problem with? Your letter was quite vague, and did not include any details yet. I would like to hear more details from you, and so if you can respond with your explanation (quotes and Scripture would be helpful), I will read it and get back with you. Since you were "dismayed" (i.e. discouraged, lowered in spirit, and/or put into a state of fear), and that you profess your heart to be open, and profess your concern for others, I am sure you would want to be as accurate with me as possible to correct any errors, and so I will leave a link to my article where you can pull up any quotes to point out the mistakes:
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php

I'm very glad you are a willing servant of Christ that is so charitable with your time and effort to help me understand these matters. Most people are just content to send me nothing but blanket accusations and links, but I would presume that you are hard-working, dedicated, and care enough about my soul, that you would spend an appropriate amount of time to write out a full explanation for me. I want to hear back from you before responding further. Thanks for your charitable work on my behalf.
THREE DAYS LATER, I HAD RECEIVED NO RESPONSE, SO I WROTE AGAIN...
It's been a few days, and I haven't heard anything back from you. I'm not sure if you received my letter or not, or if you're just working on your response. Please let me know, and I hope your family is healthy and doing well.
TEN DAYS LATER, STILL NO RESPONSE, SO I WROTE BACK A FINAL TIME...
It's been ten days, and there is no response coming from you, which tells me that either you never check your email (which I don't believe), you had a dire medical emergency (which I very much hope is not the case) or you're avoiding my emails and/or you have preemptively blocked my email address. The latter sounds correct, and so from this point, I'm no longer going to move forward under the assumption that you are a charitable Christian that cares about my soul, but rather, I will be addressing your lack of discernment, your lack of understanding of God's Word, and in cowardice, your hiding in fear so you will not have to be accountable for your deceptive words.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36
I am telling you these things for the sake of your soul, because I care about you, I want you to know the truth, even if you hate me for it, and I want you to get right with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's address your letter:
Just thought I would take a minute and thank you for helping me in regard to discerning the spirit of this ministry. The Lord has been gracious to open the eyes of my heart to come out from among them.
Well... after this letter, we will see if that is true.

FYI,  if it matters, I neither had a conviction, nor was I trying to place a burden on your shoulders in regard to revealing revelation regarding 501c3 to this church.  I was merely asking in light of your expertise on the matter and in dealing with those who become offended if it was something the Lord might allow you the privilege of doing.   I do apologize for the misunderstanding and for not making myself more clear in the matter regarding my conviction and passion.
That was a lie. What was in your heart was clear by what you said; read it yourself from your first letter:
Please let me know if you able to help me discern the truth about this ministry and if the Spirit might lead you to share the truth about the 501c3 deception to them, in case they might be truly ignorant of the danger in it. 
Obviously, you were concerned about them being in danger of error, and therefore, you were hoping the Holy Spirit might lead me to conviction to share the matter with them so you would not have to (and you probably did not share it with them anyway, and based on what you have said to me so far, if I had to guess, it's because you wanted to avoid controversy, as women often do). I have no problem with your heart on the matter one way or another, but do not lie to me about what you wrote me; I do not appreciate that, and I do not know why you are trying to hide it, unless it was because you do not want to confess the truth that you did not really care enough about them to share it with them yourself.

While I appreciate your ministry and all that you are doing to help those misled, if your heart is open I would ask if you might consider looking at the following teaching regarding Repentance.  I must admit that I came away a bit dismayed with your teaching on this subject.  While I appreciate your overwhelming emotional response, I don't think God has designed each of us to have exactly the same response to His grace as you were graciously allowed to experience.
I will address the finer details of what you said in just a moment, but there is a very big difference between this letter, and the last letter you wrote me. Perhaps you did not see it, but I will explain. You were thankful for help regarding the discernment of another ministry in the last letter, but in this letter, you were extremely confident that you had solid discernment on the author of the links you sent me, despite the fact that there are many serious problems with this "blowthetrumpet" author.

Let's be frank before I begin: I have no idea what you believe. People often listen to me, then they write me, and they do not express what it is they believe. I have no way of discerning most of them because they have nothing online they have produced, so I cannot assess what they believe. I am forced, in most cases (under the doctrine of charity), to assume that everyone who writes me claiming to be a believer on Jesus is born again in Him, unless they express something in their letter which opposes Biblical doctrine and leads me to think otherwise. I just wanted to make that disclaimer so that you understand where I am coming from.

One of the main problems between your first letter and second letter is that when you had an objection against something a particular ministry was teaching, you were much more specific. You pointed out particular things you had problems with. However, when it came to critiquing me, you suddenly became incredibly vague, and then pointed to someone else's teaching on repentance, which you obviously prefer. Why you cannot be specific as to your objections with what I teach, I do not know because you have not written enough to help me discern that information.

Now, of course, the person you are referencing to obviously has some importance to you, otherwise you would not share what they teach on the gospel of repentance and faith, which means this is one of the primary men you follow, and that tells me a lot more.

I'm not sure if you actually read everything this man teaches, nor if you know what he believes, but the man is obviously a Zionist (i.e. those who, for all intents and purposes, worship Israel as if the nation itself is a god); that's for sure, and that also means his doctrine will be quite dangerous. He states it pretty clearly on his About page, without coming out and just saying he's a Zionist.

For example, he states: "We believe that the New Covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah was made with the House of Israel and Judah and not with the Church." The problem is that is NOT what the Bible teaches. In the Holy Spirit, there is no Jew or Greek, but all are one in Christ Jesus (i.e. the seed of Abraham is by faith), and Jesus is the head over the church:
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
-Gal 3:26-29
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
-Eph 5:23
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
-Col 1:18

The author also heavily leans to the writings of Hebrew-roots cultists I have seen, which is pretty clear if you scan through some of his teachings down the list he has on the right side of his website. I find it amazing that you needed my help in discerning another ministry, but you cannot see that you need more help in this area, and that's because you are weak in the faith and are splashing around the milk of the Word.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
-Heb 5:13-14

This man is a coward. He simply says his name is "Raoul." He refuses to put his name on what he is writing, and I know the typical excuse they use, namely that they claim they are "serving God," so they claim they should not put their name on what they are teaching, but the problem is that the man is hiding so he does not have to be held accountable for what he says, and it contradicts what God has taught us:
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
-2Ti 4:5
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
-Mat 5:14-16

The domain is owned by a man named "Ian Ward" (I have no idea who that is) and is also registered by "Raoul Caire." Why he cannot just come out an say that is nonsensical, and demonstrates his cowardice.

Next, he uses new-age bible versions, which are corrupt and designed after the Westcott & Hort Greek New Testament, which was taken from the corrupt minority texts of the Catholic Church. I have a teaching on that where you can learn more details:
Why I Use The King James Bible
That is why so many authors provide Scripture references more often than they quote Scripture, and why they typically do not leave a link where you can read the Scripture reference for yourself because they are trying to pander to those who use a variety of new-age versions.

I'll end my analysis of Raoul with that because, in short, there are a lot of corruptions in this man's writings that could be mentioned, but it would take a lot of time I don't really want to spend time on it right now because I'm working on other projects. (i.e. Having to rebuke your letter is going to take enough time as it is.) In summary, Raoul is a man you obviously really like and follow because you wanted to share his doctrine when it comes to salvation. You would not share a man's doctrine on salvation if you did not truly believe everything he was teaching.

Before I get into Raoul's corrupt doctrine on repentance, I found it very strange that you cannot just be straight-forward with me and tell me you're from Illinois. I have no idea why you are treating me in such a fearful manner when you were more than willing to put your email and location (along with zip code) on an Unregistered Baptist Seekers list for everyone to see, but I can assure you that their website (independencebaptist.com) is filled to the brim with a lot of false teachers and cultic church buildings, and so born again Christians cannot find much there. I found your Facebook profile too, based on the information you gave me in these emails, and you are also guilty of swapping out corrupt new-age bible versions to get the Bible to say what you want it to say, so it makes sense why you blindly follow Raoul's false doctrine.

Also, it is sad that you are not prepared and/or refuse to spend the time to explain these subjects of doctrine yourself, but rather, you just refer to another preacher. I am starting to notice this pattern with you, where it seems you are adopting many teachers, and the Bible says that heaping (or piling up) many teachers is not what we Christians should be doing; rather, those who do that are turning their ears away from the truth because they seek to find what sounds good to them, instead of the what is right:
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
-2Ti 4:3-4

That all being said, let's go to Raoul's doctrine on repentance.
https://blowthetrumpet.com.au/biblical-repentance-part-1/
The first thing Raoul does in his article is shoot down the doctrine of repentance itself by lying about the facts:
"Many think that repentance is to feel sorry for doing something wrong"
First of all, most people do not teach that, and second, it seems that Raoul is trying to approach this from a Roman Catholic's point of view, instead of viewing it from a general population point of view. (But he does not tell his readers that from the start.) Most people believe that the word 'repent' means "turning from sin" or "changing one's mind," and even something so childishly simple a Google search could disprove him, and so Raoul has his facts wrong.

After he has established what he believes "many people think," he then changes what he believes most people think. He says:
"Religious people often equate repentance with a prayer of confession but it never really changes the way they live"
The only conclusion I can come to is that either this man is lying, or he is extremely secluded from reality and the rest of society, and furthermore, he just changed his argument. First, he says that most people say that 'repent' means to "feel sorry," and then turns around and says that most people think 'repent' means "a prayer of confession." That's a man who cannot make up his mind.

He then goes on to write a section about why repentance is important BEFORE he defines it. That makes no sense to me, but if we skip down a few pages, he finally starts to define what he means. He starts out by defining repentance correctly as "grief," but then he says something very strange that he never really explains:
"You may be remorseful but not repent. Judas Iscariot was filled with remorse after he had betrayed the Lord Jesus but he never repented."
That is simply not true, and it shows his gross misunderstanding of the Scripture. There is a good reason why Raoul does not finish explaining this in his writing, nor does he refer to any Scripture when he mentions this, and that's because the Bible does not say what Raoul is trying to argue.

Judas had the sorrow of repentance in his heart, but he did not trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. That was the problem. Judas had repentance, and even turned from his sin, which is why he took the pieces of silver he was paid back to the temple and threw it on the floor.
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
-Matthew 27:4-6
If Judas had cast down that silver, departed, and went and fell on his knees before the Lord Jesus Christ in his repentance, and trusted in Christ to save him, Jesus would have saved and healed him. Instead, Judas chose not to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and trusted only in his own works. He believed that there was nothing he could do to be redeemed, and though he had heard Jesus preach the Gospel first-hand for years, he did not believe it, which is why he hung himself. (This applies to a number of Catholics as well, as many of them are taught repentance as godly sorrow, but then worship a false christ.)

Part of the reason for Raoul's confusion is, once again, because he uses new-age bible versions. There are a number of versions that change the word 'repent' to 'remorse', and there is a lot of things that can be discerned by that alone. He is following after their corrupt versions, and without the Holy Spirit, he is blinded to it, and so because he follows new-age versions instead of the preserved Word of God (i.e. the King James Bible), he ends up in error, which is why I have told Christians countless times that they need to study the KJB.

I printed off that guy's article and discussed his teaching with my wife, and we went over a lot of it. There are MANY more problems with his teaching than just this, but I wanted to provide you with some examples, and the reason for that is because (if I may borrow your words) "if your heart is open I would ask if you might consider looking at" my entire teaching on repentance, which I know you did NOT do.

How did I figure that out? By what you wrote:
While I appreciate your overwhelming emotional response,
I know I had an emotional response at the end of that teaching, which I normally do not do, and try to avoid for the sake of others, but I only had that response in PART 1 of the 6-part series. What that means is that you listened to part 1 and stopped, but you didn't think I would be able to figure that out, did you?
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
-Pro 18:13

Finally, the most condemning thing is what you finished saying:
I don't think God has designed each of us to have exactly the same response to His grace
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
-Mat 12:37
That shows me that you have not come to godly sorrow of your wrongdoing, and that this entire email you sent me was selfish, not sent out of any kind of love. You do not care about me or my soul one bit, which is why you would not respond to my inquiry. I took the time to respond to you because I care about your soul, but you hid because you are trying to justify yourself.
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
-Luke 16:15
You started that sentence with "I think," not with "the Bible says" because you are not looking to the Word of God, but rather, you worship your own thoughts and opinions.
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.
-Pro 21:2
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26
You believed, but you never had any repentance, and that should be embarrassing to you because even Judas repented. You need to pray that God would give you a contrite spirit and repentant heart, and that he would transform your prideful and selfish heart of stone into a heart of flesh because, again, He will not give His grace to the proud of heart:
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
-James 4:6
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
-Eze 36:26
God draws close to those who have that heart of godly sorrow, and He saves them.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18
It is precisely for this reason why I wrote the book:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell

And Rose, be warned what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
Attempting to use a corrupt preacher to justify yourself will not save you from this.

Of course, from past experience, I can say it is very likely you will never read this letter, and more likely you will never read the Why Millions book because, again, you only wrote that email to try and justify yourself. However, I'll share this with others in our church so that they can benefit from the information, that they may increase their discernment and know better how to answer fool according to his folly.
Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
-Pro 13:16
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
-Pro 26:5

The Lord God has been extremely merciful and longsuffering to me, and I have already prayed that He would not only extend to you that same kindness, but that He would also provide you and your family health and prosperity in your household. Have a great day, and I hope you depart from our ministry in peace.
END OF EXCHANGE

[TheChickenWhisperer]

I do not want to judge her hypocritically, as I have been guilty of lying myself, but that was the first thing I saw as well: she was not telling the truth in what she wanted to do.

Thank you for sharing that.  I could see many "red flags" in her original letter.

[creationliberty]

I just got another letter from this woman with a half-hearted "apology" for some unknown reason. (I know, it's been 15 months.) I'm going to wait to see how this plays out, and depending on how it does, I may be making an update to this thread.

[creationliberty]

Okay, before I begin, I want to say that I don't always share everything in these emails with you guys because, sometimes, what they send me is so long, nonsensical, and/or boring, I don't want to bother you guys with it, but in this instance, I'm going to show you everything. After the above letters ended, she wrote me again, and then, 15 months later, wrote me AGAIN. It will make sense contextually why I am quoting all of this when you are done reading it, so here is the rest of it...
ROSE FROM "USA" -- APR 9, 2020:
Dear Mr. Johnson,

My heart is so seriously sad and sorrowful over your response.  Where is the fruit of the Spirit in your Self aggrandizing assessment of the situation?  Where is the gentle spirit and holy conversation that is commanded from Christ’s servants?

I am equally saddened that I am unable to share anything further with you because you are determined to find fault with anything other than what you have predetermined in your own mind to be absolute truth.  You are unable to see your human fallibility and have thus taken a dangerous position with strongholds within yourself that you are not able to comprehend. 

So what if I am a new believer using the milk of the Word.  Don’t we all have to start somewhere?  Do you really think it pleasing to the Lord that you flaunt your biblical knowledge in such a way as to insinuate that a new believer is not saved because they have not the skill of an advanced teacher, such as yourself?

The folly of it is I had much respect for most of your work but had only an issue with one small part that I thought might be misleading and you had to make a big ta do about it with much presumption because you cared so much for my soul.  Really?  Why in the world would you accuse me of such things as intentionally hiding my identity or where I live?  I sent you a check with a return address, do you recall?

While the KJV might be the most accurate Bible translation,  it does mean that some are not saved who use other translations as you seem to insinuate.  I know many KJV only ministers and lay people alike who are deep into deception in many areas and know some others who use other translations that have a heart for God that you would not recognize or give any credence to.  This is not how the Word of God tells us how we will know them who are His.  He did not say we would know them by their knowledge of the Word of God or by what version of the bible they use.  He said we would know them by their fruit.  Period!  There are many good and gifted teachers without fruit of the Spirit, that we are warned to beware of regardless of how much doctrine or what bible translation they use.

My obligation is to learn to be sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit and that does not include going back and listening to or reading all of what you teach at your command, based on Scripture references that promote your agenda.   Do you really think everyone who visits your site is obligated to listen to or read all of everything you have to say?  Where is your heart of compassion and understanding for a new believer or gentleness in teaching one who believes other than yourself?  Are you really that enlightened that you cannot ever be respectfully challenged?  Why are you not able to bring correction with a gentle and kind spirit?  I was not attacking you and yet you come across as if I were some kind of villain or evil person.  Do you think that you will not have to give an account for the presumptuous thoughts and false accusations you make about things you really have no knowledge of?  Quite honestly, if you are able to understand, your rhetoric appears to be more like a religious person than one who is enjoying a relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord of his life.

 I was not prompted of the Holy Spirit to reply sooner or to spend hours pouring over your teachings.  Women are instructed to have a gentle and quiet spirit and to not have authority over a man.  Yet you seem to insist that it is quite okay for me to engage in arguments with you.

My heart was deeply touched when I heard about your wife’s miscarriage and sensed the Holy Spirit prompt me to send you a small donation to maybe help out a bit and yet not one word of appreciation or thanks.  Not that I am looking to be thanked but it just shows the signs of the times and the hearts of the people in ministry today.

Since most of your comments were unkind and presumptuous, please do not respond to this email, as I am not interested in your argumentative, authoritarian, presumptuous and disrespectful style of communication.  I’m very sorry that for the much good teaching that you do, you cannot discern your own manipulation and control over the laity or anyone who has another interpretation of Scripture than your own.  (Matthew 7)

I write these things only after much prayer that I speak only the Words given by the Holy Spirit - the first commandment must always come before the second, knowing full well that most, if not all of what I have to say will come under your careful inspection and critique because you have convinced yourself that you are invincible and cannot be corrected.  A very sorry state to be in, indeed!

I will close with saying:  If you were my son, I would say:  Son, I forgive you your trespasses as I’ve been forgiven by Christ for mine and then I would ask you in a most humble, gentle, kind and loving way possible:  “Son, have you surrendered your will and your life to the Lordship of Christ? “    Surely you must know that one must get down on his knees and  die to himself before the Holy Spirit will take up residence in a man's heart.   

Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?… (Matthew 16:24-26)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine an doeth them, (inward works righteousness of the Beatitudes) I will liken him unto a man that built his house on a rock.  (Matthew 7:24)

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.   (1 Cor. 15:31)

Many verses teach about our need to die to self.  https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Dying-To-Self/

 May you know His peace that surpasses understanding and enter fully into His rest.  (Phil. 4:6-7)  We must all, always remember, God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.  (James 4:6)

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.  (Matthew 11:28-30)

Respectfully - For His Glory,

She made this part seem like it was the end of the letter because she signed her full name, but then she just kept writing. It's strange. This is all part of the same email...

Again, my heart is deeply grieved, please do not send another rhetorical analysis of how I and all those who do not use the KJV have so terribly missed the mark.  I do pray that you are able to restrain yourself from any further communications.

Also, for whatever it might be worth to you - The LORD has called me out of Hebrew Root Movements, Word of Faith and NAR movements plus some other things.  By no means have I a handle on all of the False Gospels and Prophets of the day, as they are much too numerous to count, I have been blessed with some discernment.  To God be the Glory for His mercy, I deserve none of it!  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. (Acts 14:22)

I pray that you will know the peace of God that surpasses understanding and that you will insert the following verses appropriately.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:16-20)

 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,  (2 Timothy 2:24)

 “But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;”  (1 Peter 1:15)

But speak things which become sound doctrine: that the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.  The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things.  (Titus 2:1-2) 

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men. (Titus 3:2)

 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth  (Matthew 5:5) 

(A. W. Tozer has an excellent teaching on meekness in "The Pursuit of God" - however, I'm sure that you probably have a list of faults to degrade his character in some way as you do all the many others, than give any other than yourself credit for anything pertaining to godliness.)


But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.  (James 3:17)

 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish. (Proverbs 12:1)


 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.  (Romans 8:14)

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace to the hearer.  And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.  Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.  And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.  (Eph. 4:29-32)

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. (1 Timothy 2:9-14)

 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me:  then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.  (Psalm 19:13)

And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.  But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.  (Revelation 2:12-17)

 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men." ... Give careful thought to do what is honorable in everyone's eyes." (Romans 12:17)

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come, for men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, in continent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.  (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out, and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved. (Matt. 9:16–17) 

And above all things have fervent love among yourselves: for love shall cover a multitude of sins. (1 Peter 4:8 )

And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."  (Matthew 24:4)

If anyone speaks, he should speak as one conveying the words of God. If anyone serves, he should serve with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory and the power forever and ever. Amen. Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial that has come upon you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed at the revelation of His glory... (1 Peter 4:11-13)

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.  (John 16:33)

Psalm 37:1-11 King James Version (KJV)
Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

3 Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

4 Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

The LORD bless you and keep you,
The LORD make His face shine upon you
And be gracious unto you,
The LORD turn His face toward you
And give you His shalom (peace)!
(Numbers 6:24-26)
These are excuses Rose, not a response to my email. You were happy to argue various points before this last email (as evidenced by your previous letters), but as soon as I rebuked you, you were grieved at correction and acted like you cannot have a discussion with me because you're a woman. That's childish nonsense Rose. You know that's just an excuse, and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to use such a foolish argument.
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10
The only thing you proved by this email is exactly what I already suspected: You do not have understanding of the Word of God, you only know how to do keyword searches. I could have pointed out many Scriptural flaws in your letter, but I am not going to waste my time because I cannot help a prideful woman that believes she has no sin, who has no godly sorrow in her heart, while she holds the belief that she understands Scripture.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14
What more can I do besides tell that woman the truth and move on? The pride of your heart is causing you to reject repentance (i.e. godly sorrow), and God does not give his grace to the proud of heart.
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
-James 4:6
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
-Rev 3:17
In the context of this conversation (which is not much of a conversation at all since you will not respond to what I am saying to you), I DO NOT care if you sent money or not because I am concerned about whether someone is right with the Lord Jesus Christ; I love Him, not your money. Money is not a contributing factor in rebuking the prideful double heart that hides behind flattering lips, and such things will not gain you favor with Christ's true church (as opposed to your Hebrew roots cults that you like to follow).
Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men. They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
-Psa 12:1-2
If you believe that I have done you wrong in rebuking your false doctrines and sins, then by all means, I hope you depart from our ministry in peace, but you should be on your way. Go to those wicked and false preachers that you prefer to listen to; your letter makes it clear that I cannot do anything to persuade you further. If the Lord God shows you mercy and opens your eyes to your wrongdoing, and you want further conversation on that point, then you are welcome to write us again, but until then, I hope you stay safe and healthy in all your travels and endeavors, and that you leave us in peace.
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1026.0
That link leads to this forum post, which she likely never looked at because she doesn't bother to examine herself, nor what anyone else says if they dare to rebuke her.

Moving on...

ROSE FROM "USA" -- 15 MONTHS LATER...
Dear Christopher,

As I'm reading Numbers 14:39 this afternoon and how the children of Israel greatly mourned, I sense that I may owe you an apology.  Please forgive me for whatever words I said to you that caused you to come against me.  It was never my intention to involve myself in debate with you over the Word of God.

I'm further convicted by the words from the Book of James 4:9-12.  I pray for your forgiveness for too many words spoken without sufficient knowledge and wisdom.  I'm newly reborn and so please forgive the transgression, in Jesus name and for His sake.

Sincerely,
Rose
Like last time, she writes this as if it is two letters, but it is the same email. It's very strange.
Dear Christopher,

The above apology was written sometime last year but I suppose I was perhaps too proud to send it on to you.  The Lord has broken my heart for living a wasted and selfish life and I too have been in tears this afternoon.  I haven't been to your website in a very long time but I do covet your prayers for healing and a pure heart before the Lord and for deliverance from some very noisy neighbors which may have been sent to bring me into a true or deeper repentance.

Thank you!
As I'm reading Numbers 14:39 this afternoon and how the children of Israel greatly mourned, I sense that I may owe you an apology.  Please forgive me for whatever words I said to you that caused you to come against me.  It was never my intention to involve myself in debate with you over the Word of God.
I have no idea who you are, and I don't remember having any conversation with you. I'm sorry, but I get a lot of letters and a lot of hate mail, so I need specifics. Thus, I searched your name in my email archives, and briefly looked over the letters. After doing so, it is clear to me that you addressed NOTHING I wrote to you last time, and whether you know it or not, those were very important matters of doctrine.

In those letters, you lied to me a number of times, so it refreshed my memory a bit, and in this letter, you are not specific as to what you are apologizing for; it's rather vague. It's as if you are sorry that you said things in a particular manner in which you said them, but have no repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow) for what specifically you said, which is what I was addressing. I NEVER addressed you on the WAY you said something, but rather, I addressed you on the information you did or did not provide in those letters.

Just out of curiousity, did you ever read this?
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell

Even your approach in this email was half-hearted at best, because you said that you "sense" (i.e. based on a random, unknown feeling) that you "may" (i.e. maybe, a possibility of which you are unsure) that you would own me an apology, even though the thought of someone owing me an apology never crossed my mind. Then, you lied AGAIN in this letter by saying that "it was never my intention to involve myself in debate with you," and yet, you wrote me in the old letters saying, "You are unable to see your human fallibility and have thus taken a dangerous position with strongholds within yourself that you are not able to comprehend... I am not interested in your argumentative, authoritarian, presumptuous and disrespectful style of communication.  I’m very sorry... you cannot discern your own manipulation and control over the laity" -- You accused me of pretty much everything you could think of, when all I did was accuse you of lying, which I was able to prove. I didn't remember that you said any of those things; I'm just showing you your own words. Did you even go back and read those letters before you wrote me this email? That kind of statement clearly demonstrates the OPPOSITE of what you are saying (i.e. that you didn't intent to debate), otherwise, you would never have said those things, which means you are STILL lying to this day.
God Does Not Justify Lies

I'm further convicted by the words from the Book of James 4:9-12.  I pray for your forgiveness for too many words spoken without sufficient knowledge and wisdom.  I'm newly reborn and so please forgive the transgression, in Jesus name and for His sake.
I still don't know what you're apologizing for, so I have no idea what to say to that. All I know is what I said above, which is based on the words you said then and now.

The above apology was written sometime last year but I suppose I was perhaps too proud to send it on to you.
To be frank, based on the words "I sense that I may owe you an apology," it doesn't sound like you wanted to send it now either.

The Lord has broken my heart for living a wasted and selfish life and I too have been in tears this afternoon.  I haven't been to your website in a very long time but I do covet your prayers for healing and a pure heart before the Lord and for deliverance from some very noisy neighbors which may have been sent to bring me into a true or deeper repentance.
A wasted and selfish life? Those tears should be because of SIN, for deceiving yourself and others, not a wasted life. A wasted life indicates that you believe in works-based salvation, which is false doctrine. I'm not sure why you want my prayers specifically on those matters; it actually confuses me why you wrote me out of nowhere and requested that. Do you not have a church who you pray with?
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
-Heb 10:25
The Biblical Understanding of Fellowship
All I can do is pray for wisdom, knowledge, understanding, and mercy for both myself and for others. That being said, the second half of your last sentence made no sense, so I don't know what to say.

I just have to be blunt here, this all really sounds the same as what you were writing me over a year ago. If it is going to be the same thing, Rose, I just don't have time for this. I've got a lot of work to do; if you want to talk with some Christians, the forum is always available; you can register an account on that and talk with them. Have a great day.
END OF DISCUSSION
My impression was that this was, once again, worldly sorrow, or more specifically, sorrow for herself, more than for God or anyone else. She wrote this letter to make herself feel better, but an apology said in willful ignorance and denial of wrongdoing is no better than going to that person and slapping them in the face; in fact, in my opinion, it's worse because it's deceptive.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
-1Co 14:15

If we sing and pray with understanding, why would we not speak and act with understanding in all things? Rose does not care, so there's nothing more I can do.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
-Mat 13:23

[anvilhauler]

A part of where she is coming from was also shown by her use of the word 'laity'.  There is no 'laity' with regards to being a Christian and following Christian doctrine and being a part of a congregation and the body of Christ as a whole.  That concept is so much from the church buildings with a "them and us" approach.

[Jeanne]

So she has a problem with you pointing out the doctrinal errors in her favourite teachers? Isn't that what she asked you to do in her first letter?

I am wondering if you able to help me out with discernment here, as I just listening to this message he preached on repentance, he does not address godly sorrow over sin as you do but a 100% turning from sin.

Sounds like your 'discernment' is only valuable to her if you tell her what she wants to hear, not what the Bible clearly says! And heaven forbid that you ask her to go read a book you wrote on the very topic she was asking about, rather than waste your time answering her directly in an email...

[creationliberty]

I know, it's kinda' bothered me too that I have spent countless hours writing these books to specifically answer these subjects, and I still get emails from people asking me about the subjects I have worked so hard to answer. Again, they want instant gratification, and they want it in the form of an answer they already expect to get, otherwise, I become their enemy.

Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
-Pro 9:8

[Jeanne]

I forgot to mention that since you disagree with all of these supposedly 'learned' Bible scholars. of course, you must be the one who's got it wrong...