(VIDEO) Repentance: Is It Part of Salvation? p2

[creationliberty]

[Jeanne]

I just found another good example of the Bible defining repentance:

Jeremiah 8:6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright:
no man repented him of his wickedness,
saying, What have I done?
every one turned to his course,
as the horse rusheth into the battle.

[creationliberty]

You may want to go back and listen to the teaching again because I quoted that verse in part 2.

[Jeanne]

I will do that. I sometimes miss stuff when I'm listening, especially when I'm tired. But I ran across that in my Bible reading today and it struck me.

[ThomasHGW]

I have a question about the repentance part 2 teaching on something you were saying, you'll have to go to the audio recording on the website to get exactly where I'm talking about from the time I give if you want, between 40 minutes in and 50 minutes in, Christopher was talking about the false doctrine of learning to love yourself, and how we already do love ourselves,  and what the bible says about hating yourself for what we are.

before I go further I want to express that I know what this is like, I have been in a mental state of hating my self for the wicked person that I am for the sin that I have committed and cried in grief and godly sorrow many times, I am an aldurterer, liar, thief, idolator, murderer in my heart, transgressor in every part of the law, but I want to make sure that I'm understanding what you were saying, we already love ourselves, but we also hate ourselves?
the love that is spoken of in 2 Timothy 3:2-3 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
is that love referring to only loving yourself with no hate of sin?
only loving yourself without hating yourself at the same time?

[Tristan David Smith]

Hello Thomas,

The thing about the times we live in is they repeat over and over again; "learn to love yourself"
think of it like this, if you are already doing something, and are then told to do that thing(and you believe what you are doing is not loving  yourself) then you get stuck in an infinite loop, which i think is the point, the reason i say this is that people are remarkably adept at self deception, but the thing is that in order for them to continue believing  those lies they have to continuously reinforce them with emotion, hence why they constantly seek pleasure/happiness/whatever this is essentially an attempt to avoid thinking, lest the Holy spirit convict them.
They are running from their conscience telling them that what they are doing is wrong, now the minds of men are limited in how much they can process at any given time, emotion takes up quite a bit of processing power, so their thoughts become focused on their flesh, but flesh is ever hungry and thirsty, hence they are ever seeking this, that or the other,

final point if what i said was a bit tangential, but think of it like this, if they stopped and thought of how wretched they really are then would they not hate themselves ?, therefore because they hold the truth  in unrighteousness they will immerse themselves in the ways of flesh and its fruits because flesh and spirit go against each other, and flesh being of the world is opposed to God, soo long story short, they love themselves, and instead of hating themselves for their sin they hate God, because they are rebellious and do not want to acknowledge their guilt,
so its the opposite, they love their sin, but man can only serve one master, so they love sin and hate God.(this statement may not be particularly clear, apologies in advance i am not sure how to simplify it.)   

[creationliberty]

I want to make sure that I'm understanding what you were saying, we already love ourselves, but we also hate ourselves?

No, men already love themselves, but they don't hate themselves. That's why they need to gain understanding of God's Word. Once they understand the law, and their fallen and lost state, they hate themselves because once they're converted, they love that which is of God and hate that which is of the world.
Jesus referred to their self-loving attitude in Revelation:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:... As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
-Rev 3:17-19

[ThomasHGW]

I'm using the term "we" assuming christians in the post and you're using the terms "men" and "they" assuming churchgoers or the average person, maybe that's where my confusion stemmed from, basically when someone gets out of bed to get dressed and feed themselves they are loving themselves in some way to do those things, but a christian also hates what is of the world  and learns to love that which is of God, the average churchgoer learns to love themselves and not hate the world and that's the difference between what you were saying.
I think I just misunderstand your train of thought at first.

[creationliberty]

During the teaching, I suggested that people go read that other article if they wanted more details. Did you read it? http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/love.php
Based on what you're writing, it seems you're using the definition of "love" that is taught by the typical church building, rather than the Bible's definition of love. That's why I recommended to check out that other teaching. Have you looked at it before?

[ThomasHGW]

Yes, I have read it, I thought it was very informative, what exactly did I say that lead you to believe I thought it meant anything that the average church building teaches? You were the one who said that when you get up to brush your teeth that is loving yourself?  or am I still misunderstanding?
I have been laughed at told off for teaching grown men that love doesn't mean what they think it means, people who have told me to love myself more when I tell them the wrong i've committed, they say i'm being too hard on myself,
the average person believes that love is some gooey emotion, I don't claim that.

[creationliberty]

I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote that last response. Meaning, I can't figure out what I was thinking of when I read your last post before that. I actually can't figure it out anymore. I'm going to slowly back away and act like no one can see me... 

[ThomasHGW]

LOL, me too
*slowly backs away as if no one is looking*   



p.s. that had me even more confused than I already was for a minute there! LOL


 

[Suelong88]

I just chuckled out loud!