Okay, I hope you will keep to your word and depart in peace.
Folks, this is what I was waiting for him to do, that is, the angry slap-and-run we have seen so many times here. Let's break down what he said and then we can move on...
Lol where did I actually defend hillsong?After pointing out to Wayne that the article had nothing to do with Christ, and that Hillsong was a corrupt organization that was not of Christ, and that Justin Bieber was not a Christian, his only response to that was...
But it is still possible for people to be saved by either him or Hillsong.In fact, I would say it is less likely that someone can get saved through Hillsong than they could through the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church worships at the throne of antichrist. At least in the Catholic Church, you will occasionally hear the law of God, even if only some, but in Hillsong, it is unlikely that you will ever hear the law of God.
For example, if I noticed mold growing on a hot dog, and I said, "That's disgusting, throw that away!" but Wayne jumped up and immediately said, "I agree, but hot dogs are still good!" it simply shows me his strange, overbearing affection for hot dogs. Likewise, when someone is pointing out the corruption of things you are talking about, and then you defend that thing anyway, it demonstrates the corruption within that person, that they are defending the worldly things of this life.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
-1Jo 2:15
I'll rephrase what I said. It's possible for someone to get saved by someone's testimony whether or not the one giving the testimony is saved.I am more than willing to accept the concept of someone getting saved by someone else's testimony, if you can show me that in Scripture. Sadly, he left before attempting to do that.
Essentially, it comes down to justifying his presupposition. Wayne does not have enough understanding of Scripture to show us where a testimony saved someone, even if that was possible, but the main point is that because he believes he was "saved" by reading some arbitrary article about Justin Bieber, therefore, in his mind, it must be true that someone can be saved by reading a testimony. That was a statement based on his emotional bias, not a statement based on the facts of God's Word.
I am not a Justin Bieber fan or a fan of hillsong for that matter.I do not recall saying that he was. However, I also think he's lying to a degree. The person who leads you to Christ, or your first teacher in Christ, you always end up having some attachment to that person early on. That may not define you as a "fan," but certainly a sense of endearment.
The problem with Justin's so-called "testimony," which was really a publicity stunt to get him back into good graces with the public after his arrests, is that it was the opposite of what God's Word teaches us. Bieber said:
"He doesn't ask us not to have sex for him because he wants rules and stuff. He's like, 'I'm trying to protect you from hurt and pain.' I think sex can cause a lot of pain. Sometimes people have sex because they don't feel good enough. Because they lack self-worth."No Justin, the problem is that sex outside of marriage is SIN because it violates the law of God, and one violation of the law of God will result in hell and the lake of fire, which is why we need Jesus Christ in the first place. That is what Justin does NOT want to say to his audience because he will NOT attract a following that way. Instead, he goes the new-age route to say, "Guys, the reason you are fornicating so much is because you don't love yourself enough!" That is a lie!
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
-2Ti 3:1-5These people love themselves all day long, but they do not love God, and they do not love their neighbor. Justin has a form of godliness on the outside that he likes to portray to the public, but inwardly, he is corrupt, and holds a philosophy after vain deceits and traditions of men.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
-Col 2:8Therefore, whatever fruit comes from Justin is going to be corrupt fruit, and Wayne (by his own admission) is the fruit of Justin Bieber, not of Jesus Christ, which is why he talked so much about Justin, and not at all about Jesus.
You are also ignoring everything else I said.Everyone, go back and read through this thread, and judge for yourselves if I ignored what Wayne said, or if Wayne ignored what I said.
Talking about Jesus doesn't prove someone is saved.That is a true statement, and I will bring that back up to you in a moment. However, one who has been saved by the Lord Jesus Christ has no problem talking about Him, and does not have to coaxed into doing it.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
-Mat 5:15
But fine I'll do it. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to the earth to die for our sins. None of us deserve it.You just said that talking about Jesus does not prove someone is saved. So again, what makes you different from the devils who believe and tremble?
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
-Jms 2:19
Now.Right now?
Would you like defend your misinterpretation of scripture? Galatians 3:24.Would you like to explain what you mean when you say I misinterpreted Gal 3:24?
This is typically what is called a "loaded question," which is a logical fallacy. I'm not sure if Wayne understands what that means, but it means it is a question that has a built-in assumption that has not been established in the conversation, and answering the question would make a person look guilty of error no matter how they answer it.
An example of this would be:
"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" If a man answered "Yes," it means he was beating his wife, but if he answers, "No," it means he is still beating his wife, so no matter how he answers, he is guilty of something he did not do.
Likewise, If I were to answer "Yes," to Wayne's question, it would mean I am misinterpreting Scripture, and if I answer "No," then it would mean I am a coward and hypocrite who refuses to defend my misinterpretation. Ultimately, deceit is rooted in the heart of a man who asks such loaded questions.
Under normal circumstances, I would just ignore Wayne's childish accusations because I have already answered him according to his folly.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
-Pro 26:5However, since there are other readers to this forum, some of them being new Christians, let's do what Wayne refused to do and look closer at Gal 3:21-25...
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.Paul is reassuring those who believe that the law is not a violation of the promises of God, as men like Wayne treat, but as he taught the Romans, the law is the knowledge of sin.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
-Rom 3:20However, righteousness cannot be achieved by it. Therefore, we should preach the law, as well as preaching Christ crucified, as he goes on to point out:
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.If a man is to understand that he is under sin, he must hear the law of God. If a man is to then understand that he cannot make up for his own sin, he must hear about Christ crucified.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.Before we have faith in Christ, we are judged by the law. Therefore, men need to hear the law by which they are judged, and while they are under the judgment of the law, they have no understanding of the faith, which is revealed to them only after the law is preached.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.The law is the teacher, which gives us the knowledge of sin, thereby bringing us to our knees in repentance, and if such a man with godly sorrow in his heart comes to the foot of the cross to calls out to the Lord Jesus Christ, he will be saved.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.Therefore, having the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, we are no longer judged under the law, but we are judged according to grace, which is not to say that we can do and say whatever we please, but we must then abide in the commandments of Christ as His servants.
There are many more correlating Scriptures I can provide, but I will wait to see if Wayne ready to explain specifically what I misinterpreted, and provide his Scriptural backing for it.
You do know what the law is right?Do you? Justin Bieber does not seem to understand it, and you do not seem to understand Scripture at all, so I am unsure whether you know what you are saying.
Your refusal to acknowledge that tells me something about you.Did you all see what he just did? He vaguely accused me of misinterpreting Scripture (through a loaded question) and not understanding what the law of God is, and then, without any time for me to respond, he immediately jumps to the conclusion that I have refused to address his concerns, and then jumps far out beyond that conclusion to act like he has "discovered" this secret thing about me.
Frankly, what he is doing is a type of revenge. I used Scripture in comparison to his words to determine things about him that he did not want to hear. Therefore, he thought he could get "revenge" by doing something similar, only that instead of using God's Word, he used lies and logical fallacies to try and accomplish the same goal, and it should be noted that the more he talks, the more convinced I am that he is a false convert that is lying about his belief in Christian doctrine to try and justify himself and his sin.
How could run a ministry for this long and not know what the law is! That is sad.Again, these are assumptions. I have hundreds of teachings online, and I would encourage anyone to go over the commentary I wrote on the book of Romans to judge for yourself if I understand the law of God or not.
The Book of Romans: My Notes on Chapters 1-5
The Book of Romans: My Notes on Chapters 6-10
The Book of Romans: My Notes on Chapters 11-16Now that I have provided evidence against Wayne's claims, I would like to see the evidence that Wayne understands the law of God. Oh, wait... we can't. He left. That was awfully convenient for him, wouldn't you say? Almost like a... how would you put it? Slap-and-run?
After studying scripture and thinking more about what happened I have realized what happened that night. That was the Holy Spirit.No, it was not because that is not how a man is born again in Christ. The Bible makes it very clear:
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
-Mark 1:15I would challenge anyone to find anywhere Justin Bieber has EVER taught that men should come to godly sorrow of their sins against God, or even Justin preaching the law of God for that matter. Have fun looking.
It did heal me from a sinful lifestyle.I doubt it because you are lying and deceiving in this thread alone, which makes your statement not true.
I can only assume that I was unsaved before that.If you want to base eternity on an assumption, you are free to do so, but I would not recommend it. I would much rather put my faith in the Word of God than my personal feelings.
Lastly I will voluntarily depart from here. If your pastor doesn't even know what the law is I don't want to be here.When did I ever say I was a pastor? And again, more assumptions. Wayne did not want to hear the Word of God, and I warned him that he would not find what he was looking for here because he hates the rebuke of the Lord God in the Bible. He claims to have the Holy Spirit, but then rejects the Holy Spirit's teaching in the Word of God.
We can only pray that the Lord God would show Wayne as much mercy as He has shown us, that Wayne might hear the law, come to repentance, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for his justification because faith in Bieber is a one-way ticket to hell.
