Messages

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Bible Discussion / Worship Defined In Luke

« on: August 11, 2024, 07:42:19 AM »

I was reading Luke and I came to the part where it gives a good insight in to what the word "worship" means.

Luke 14 King James Version
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee
cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the
presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be
exalted.

Of course just because someone at a wedding is invited to come up in to another room, that doesn't mean that people start bowing down to them, it only means they are a person held in regard by the wedding hosts.

I had a search through the articles to see if this account of worship was mentioned and it didn't appear to be

"meaning" "worship" site:www.creationliberty.com/articles

so I thought I would do a post here in case it was of interest or of help to anyone. 

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (WEEKLY TEACHING) Corruptions of Christianity: Seventh-day Adventism p17

« on: December 25, 2023, 04:52:02 PM »

Maybe nobody had the courage to tell her that 'indignation' and 'indigestion' are two different things.   

Revelation 14 King James Version
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (FREE TO READ BOOK) Why Christians Should Study The King James Bible

« on: November 11, 2023, 03:24:12 AM »

I have just finished reading the book after quite number of days.  There are quite few gems throughout the book. It is much appreciated that you have put the time and effort in to writing it. There are lots of typos and that is to be expected but doesn't detract in any way from the content.  I plan on reading it again as there is a lot of information there that can be used to inform those who like to argue.  Especially the excellent part at the end about learning different languages.

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Introduce Yourself / Re: New member- greetings!

« on: October 13, 2023, 04:16:23 PM »

I just looked back and realised that I neglected to put that in.  There's no way a new Christian should go to Genesis etc without having first read the New Testament through a number of times. Big mistake on my part to have not got that right.

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Introduce Yourself / Re: New member- greetings!

« on: October 07, 2023, 04:28:18 AM »

Hi Travis

It is good that you found the CLE website and have already been in touch with Chris.  As Chris has no doubt pointed out, repentance is as a gift from God.  Once you are deeply sorry and grieved for even the smallest of sins then the rest of them become just as repulsive to us even though there be too many to try to remember. The battle that goes on between our flesh self and our spiritual self goes on until the day we die and so we can never get good enough to be saved and we will be saved so long as we don't continue in sins that God will not overlook. 

You are likely not much different than the rest of us when we came to Christ and went through a deep time of soul searching and comparing with scripture where we were at. I knew next to nothing about the gospel or the Bible when I became a Christian at 26 yrs old. Reading the Bible for the first time was quite an adventure and wasn't at all what I thought the Bible would be like. Someone told me that I should read the Bible, and so I started, as one does, at the beginning of a book (Genesis), and I found it really tough going. When I told another guy he laughed and suggested I start at either John or Matthew in the New Testament.  It was very much easier after that. 

I hope all goes well for you and you even become an established member of the group here.

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (CORRECTION) Isaiah 14:12 is NOT Talking About Satan

« on: September 19, 2023, 05:13:28 PM »

The part that I always noticed was that Satan never spent any time in Hell and I knew that God would not be incorrect in the information He was giving to a prophet.

Revelation 20 King James Version
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Satan was already in the lake of fire and brimstone before Hell was thrown in.

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Bible Discussion / Re: Dreams and Visions

« on: July 05, 2023, 02:29:18 AM »

Not exactly the same but I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was the same type of lying scenario being played out when in the Pentecostal and other "churches" people who claim to be Christians are prayed for by others who claim to be Christians and they fall over and begin "speaking in tongues".  It seems most unusual that that would happen to people who I could only consider to be a "church go-er" that is clearly unrepentant and has no hunger for the word of God.  And the person doing the "praying" is no better. 

Over time I had watched these people and there had been no growth at all in their lives from what I could see and one of them I met up with at the pool from the "Baptist church" that I hadn't seen for over twenty years still showed no sign of any growth.  Lying spirits is what I put it down to as well as some of those who have dreams. 

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Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: First Disgruntled Flat Earth Cultist

« on: June 24, 2023, 06:42:51 AM »

The other thing about Exodus and commenting about the whole earth

Re: In fact, the Lord God even uses the phrase "the whole earth" to refer to a specific region of the planet, not to the entire planet:
And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt, and rested in all the coasts of Egypt: very grievous were they; before them there were no such locusts as they, neither after them shall be such. For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened; and they did eat every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left: and there remained not any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.
-Exodus 10:14-15


If the locusts covered the whole earth then how come Goshen was not affected and Pharaoh was told that the plagues would affect the Egyptians.

Exodus 8 King James Version
21 Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.

22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.

And likewise with the hail as with all of the plagues that God brought upon the Egyptians.  It goes without saying really.

Exodus 9 King James Version
25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.

26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.

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Bible Discussion / My further Explanation To Someone Of The Sabbath

« on: June 09, 2023, 04:46:55 AM »

I was writing this to someone and thought it might be interesting enough to post here on the forum.

The Old Testament is interesting.  A number of years ago I got talking with people and they were all in a tizz and saying that they think Constantine changed the Sabbath from a Saturday to a Sunday etc etc. They were unaware obviously about how the Hebrew calendar worked.

The Hebrew month started on the New Moon and then the first Sabbath was on the 8th of the month the next on the 15th then the 22nd and finally the 29th. So the day of the week the Sabbath was going to fall on would differ quite often.  It also would depend on whether they saw that first sliver of the New Moon on the evening they might have expected it or had to wait for the next evening. The Sabbath could also never clash with other feasts.


Leviticus 23 King James Version
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.

6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.


The New Moon is only a few days after the previous Sabbath (29th) and so of course it is not a Sabbath as a Sabbath is only after a time of six days of work.  So that does also make it interesting with Jericho.


Joshua 6 King James Version
1 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in.

2 And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.

3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.

5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.


So which day was the Sabbath Day.  None of them.  God wouldn't have had his people out marching around Jericho on a Sabbath and so one of the days must have been New Moon Day which isn't a Sabbath.

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (WEEKLY TEACHING) Christian Music: For the Love of Money p23

« on: June 05, 2023, 05:49:23 PM »

On the download it's mislabelled as p25.

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Introduce Yourself / Re: What a journey

« on: April 12, 2023, 05:30:29 AM »

It just really hurt because I was so excited to talk with other Christians when I started this journey and it destroyed me to discover that church going christians have been the most hurtful people towards me.

Yep, a few of us here sure have been burned by those ones. 

Not to info dump but I just have no one else to share it with.

You're in good company here because we understand fully what it's like.  It's good now that you have more time to spend here with quality discussion rather than the never ending frustration of trying to communicate with people who just don't get it.

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Bible Discussion / Re: KJV Bible for kids

« on: March 19, 2023, 05:22:33 PM »

In the early days of Israel, the Israelites were told to teach their children all of the precepts of God.

Leviticus 10:11 King James Version
And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the Lord hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Deuteronomy 4:10  King James Version
Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.

Deuteronomy 11:19  King James Version
And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

etc etc

So the children were to have been taught it just as it was from an early age. 

In the New Testament we read what Paul wrote, and he was writing directly to the children and that was because they were going to be the ones reading it.

Ephesians 6:1 King James Version
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

Colossians 3:20 King James Version
Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

The parents likely would have been using Paul's letters along with the Law as the material they were using to teach their children how to read and they wouldn't have had altered versions for the teaching.  Back then creating scripts was likely quite a task and so there was no point creating different scripts for the children only to then have to get the errors out of their heads (and their own) at a later time when they were to read and learn the correct manuscripts.

Children are way better at learning than many people give them credit for and with correct material provided they will easily get their head around what is being taught just as an older person will.

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Evangelism / Re: Passing Out Tracts

« on: March 07, 2023, 09:20:53 PM »

Thank you for your input Kevin. I do see your points.

Unfortunately it might do more against the gospel message than for it.

Yikes! Okay, this is what I don't want, so my next question is, do you have a different more effective way?  Any suggestions that might help me get over 600 bible tracts out there?  How have you done it?  Thanks again.

It is difficult to find ways to be in contact with people in order to try and get the gospel message to them.  Until I got banned from the local swimming pool for two years for advising as many people as I could not to take any of the injections, I used to be there regularly and talk to as many people as possible.  Once I had found CLE I could then point people to a reliable source of information that was also regularly updated and they/we/me were open for discussion.  I printed off tracts that I had made and that I had plastic laminated to protect them from the water at the pool.  Although no-one has actually become a Christian over that time a lot of seeds have been sown and I'm still in contact with some of the people. 

Once a lot of this current political trouble is over I'll be back to the pool and for those who are still alive I'm sure they will be more interested in what I have to say.

I like Kenneth's ministry of street preaching.

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Evangelism / Re: Passing Out Tracts

« on: March 07, 2023, 03:22:28 PM »

I definitely don't think it is OK to put tracts under people's windscreen wipers. 

As you commented, it is sort of forcing it on to people, but it is also interfering with a motor vehicle and that is certainly illegal here in New Zealand.  The owner of the car has every right to come back to their car and drive away without first having to clear away advertising.  There is also the factor that you may damage the windscreen wiper blade itself or without realising there is paper under the wiper blade they might use the windscreen washers and that automatically activated the windscreen wipers that then damages the blade.  If the person doesn't want the piece of paper they can't give it back to you and if they thrown it on the ground that may be considered as littering.  They are then stuck with having to dispose of the paper and if people thought that was OK and a hundred people did it ......

For me, I have always been very annoyed when people have left advertising under my windscreen wipers as I feel violated that people have been interfering with my car in my absence.  Unfortunately it might do more against the gospel message than for it.

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Bible Discussion / Re: A Time In The Wilderness

« on: March 03, 2023, 02:56:18 AM »

As for Egypt, I generally understand that to represent the world. The reason why many of the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt is because they loved the world and not God, despite everything He had done for them.

In Revelation God also refers to Jerusalem as being Sodom and Egypt in the time when the two witnesses are put to death by the Beast ....  for three and a half days.

Revelation 11 King James Version
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

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Bible Discussion / Re: A Time In The Wilderness

« on: March 03, 2023, 01:14:59 AM »

Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
Isaiah 51:1

Now I have a question?  Is "the pit whence [they] are digged" refering to Egypt?

It would seem to be more correct that the pit is the fire of Hell.

Isaiah 14 King James Version
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?


In Isaiah 51:1 God was only referring to those who follow after righteousness, and those that seek the LORD that were digged out of the pit.  The rest of the people had their place in the pit, the fire of Hell.

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Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Yowling Feminist

« on: February 14, 2023, 03:31:14 PM »

    Perfect reply

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General Discussion / Re: God Resisteth The Proud

« on: February 10, 2023, 08:36:14 PM »

Hi Annalisa

Your posts are brilliant reading.  I'm glad you found CLE. 

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General Discussion / Re: 9/11 Conspiracy

« on: February 03, 2023, 03:32:29 PM »

I'd be very cautious of anything implicating Israel or the Jews in acts of significant evil.

It seems that today people throw the terms 'Jew' and 'Israel' around without having any understanding of the history of the people or the land.  Many seem to have some idea that the whole population of Israel are the remnant of the Tribe of Judah plus some people of the other tribes, but they have no knowledge that when the northern tribes were taken into captivity and moved out of the land then peoples of the east were brought in to the region of Samaria to occupy the land.  The descendants of all of those people are still there today and probably along with lots of other foreigners.

Also today many seem to think that the Samaritans were some kind and Godly people and hence the common phrase we hear of "a good Samaritan", but people have no idea that that term was only picked up from Jesus' teaching.  So all-in-all when people are speaking of Israel today they are actually referring to peoples who are not at all the children of Jacob or the stranger sojourners who joined with them but rather the children of the surrounding nations.

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Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello there

« on: January 31, 2023, 02:31:19 PM »

  I couldn’t agree with you more about the Bible Kevin! And I’m sorry I’m such a noob and didn’t see the first names listed next to the user handles! 
Here I am calling people by an online moniker when your name is RIGHT there! Forgive me.

That's OK, I don't mind being called anvilhauler at all.