Messages

341

Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Trying to Rip Up the Bible (Telegram)

« on: January 20, 2022, 11:47:06 PM »

When I said that, I didn't mean he bent them over the tables and beating them. He fashioned a whip, and drove them out with it. That means, he was lashing it at them, and at the animals to drive them out. I will say whipped "at them" next time to avoid confusion.

342

Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Trying to Rip Up the Bible (Telegram)

« on: January 20, 2022, 04:15:55 PM »

When someone begins their letter with "I appreciate what you're doing," that's immediate red flags for public relations garbage. This guy had me turned off to just about anything he was going to say next because of that, and it amazes me when people think they're somehow "peacefully" approaching a conversation when they start out with words that are obviously not true.

If what I was teaching were a false gospel, which is what he claims I am doing (a point that he didn't want to consider), then why would he "appreciate" me trying to preach a false message? That is nonsense. Thus, he starts off with PR, or in other words, he starts off with deceptive speech, and I know we're about to hear some sort of false version of the gospel.

Of course, he states the obvious, that Jesus was address Israel in Matthew 7. I am being facetious when I say, Thank God he was here to let us know that Jesus was not preaching in Indonesia. How else could we have known?

When he said...
The Sermon on the mount, while containing many good principles for righteous living, is not addressed to the Church.  The church didn’t exist yet.
... I knew this guy had been indoctrinated by some false preacher. That was clear as day because... literally take your pick of any book of the Bible... and we can use that to prove him wrong. Namely, I'll use these verses to back up what I'm saying:
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
-1Co 10:6-11

The context here is that Paul was referring to all the things that happened to Jews throughout the Old Testament. There are a lot of things in those books that make us question why God allowed all this. I wondered that for many years after I was saved. Paul, through the Holy Ghost, answers that simply. It's for our admonition, which means reproof, counseling, direction, instruction, (in some cases) duties, and cautions. This means that the ENTIRE Bible was made for the church.

So immediately, all this comes to my mind, and I know this guy is going to present some leavened garbage.

Now, in the process of answering him, I gave him a couple of examples, one he wanted to harp on, and the other he wanted to ignore (but then tried to tell me that he was "happy" to answer it). If you read our interaction, you will notice that I NEVER said that Hebrews in the book of Hebrews were not Christians. My point was that HE was the one who was trying to make an excuse to ignore the Gospels books of Jesus Christ by claiming that it was just addressed to the Jews (i.e. to Israel).

If the Hebrew Christians are addressed in the book of Hebrews, then is it only for those Hebrews? No, it was for ALL the church, even though all the church did not receive that letter.

And he was purposefully avoiding my comment on the Great Commandment. Notice that even in his final remarks, which I would not continue to respond to because I really have a lot of other things to do (which is why I am writing this a bit faster than I normally do), he STILL did not respond to the comments about the Great Commandment, and would only claim he was "willing" to do so.

I want to add in one more thing before I let this go so you all can analyze this for yourself, I want you to notice that early on, I called him out on the repentance issue. Even though he was not technically addressing that. Why did I do that? Well, first of all, my comments in response to Wendy Rogers was about repentance, so that, in combination with the fact that he was trying to neutralize Christ's doctrine in Mat 7, told me that everything this guy was doing was warring against repentance.

Then, towards the end of the conversation, he said:
Here you seem to be implying that salvation comes by faith AND “having godly sorrow of wrongdoing and sanctifying oneself”.  Which sounds an awful lot like you’re making salvation CONDITIONAL on a particular emotional response to one’s sin.

He rejects the Gospel of Salvation, and I handled this man firmly, not because he was trying to deceive me, but because we were in a public chatroom, where he was trying to deceive others.

I hope this example will help raise the discernment of others, to see how they mock godly sorrow, hating anything having to do with the gift of God.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
-2Ti 2:24-25

I can only pray that some people might take the time to look up the Why Millions book.

343

Wild Emails @ CLE / Trying to Rip Up the Bible (Telegram)

« on: January 20, 2022, 03:53:28 PM »

Jan 20th, 2022 - TELEGRAM
WENDY ROGERS: Can’t we all just get along? Sure. Repent and be baptized and join America First.
It has been a VERY long time since I was able to say "Amen" to anything a state official has said. I can agree with this. I just hope that Wendy and everyone else here understands the real, Biblical meaning of repentance, and not the false, works-based definition that many corrupt preachers are teaching in church buildings.

If anyone does not understand it, go to creationliberty * com, type in 'million' in the search bar, and read Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. That'll get you the details on the true Gospel of Salvation.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
The following responses are from someone identifying himself as "Parker"
I appreciate what you are doing.  Important distinction- In Matthew 7, and in fact all of Matthew up until Chapter 26 verse 26, Jesus is addressing Israel.  The Sermon on the mount, while containing many good principles for righteous living, is not addressed to the Church.  The church didn’t exist yet.  The Kingdom was at hand still, meaning the offer to bring in the kingdom was active and on the table.  Jesus was preaching the kingdom to Israel in preparation of offering it to them (Matthew 21).  Its isn’t until AFTER Israel fails to recognize Him as their Messiah (Matthew 21:11) and He is rejected by the religious-political leadership (Matthew 21:15) that He began preaching the DELAY of the kingdom.

So, Jesus demonstrates Himself qualified to be King, fulfills all Kingly requirements, teaches about the Kingdom, and then formally offers Himself to Israel as King.

Israel rejects the offer, thereby preventing the Kingdom from coming (just as the prophecies foretold) and Jesus immediately begins teaching that the Kingdom will be coming after some time and will be given to a different generation.  And the mechanism through which it will be attained will be the eventual acceptance of the New Covenant.

But… still not talking about the church.  It’s a future generation of National Israel that will all be saved (Jeremiah 30:7, Romans 11:26) and receive the fulfillment of the kingdom covenant promised to Abraham (Deuteronomy 30:2-6) when they cry out to Jesus upon recognizing that He is their King (Matthew 23:38-39).

So, because the church and therefore Christians are not the context of Matthew 7, this is not a teaching about how to be saved.  Rather the context is how to recognize false teachers and false prophets.  Jesus was giving a criteria of how to distinguish the genuine thing from the imposters.  Prophesying, miracles and casting out demons are NOT necessarily indications that a person is a genuine teacher or prophet.

That’s said, there will certainly be many church-age believers who held to a works-based salvation which prevented them from truly accepting the gift of God through the sufficiency of Christ’s atoning work on the cross through faith ALONE.  But that can be demonstrated thoroughly with other passages in which salvation by grace alone through faith alone are the context.  Matthew 7 just isn’t one of those.
I know you think you understand what you are saying, but that is incorrect doctrine that someone has taught you along the way, and you're spreading that error, which is worse. For example, Hebrews was written to... you guessed it... the Hebrew people. However, that is where we get this verse:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
-Hebrews 10:25

Now, if you are going to be consistent in your belief, namely, "that which is preached to the Israel is not meant for the church," then you need to start telling people that the church does not need to assemble together. Of course, I know you won't do that because it won't look good on you, but that means you need to either confess the error of your words, or you will be found to be a hypocrite who says one thing and does another.

Furthermore, the entirety of the Gospels was preached to Israel. That means, if you were consistent in your teaching, you would have to throw out the Great Commandment because Jesus preached that to the Sadducees and Pharisees:
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
-Matthew 22:37-40

But we who study and understand the Scriptures know that the Gospel is to be preached first to the Jews, and then to the Gentiles:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
-Luke 24:47

So just in the first few sentences you wrote, you have preached AGAINST the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you are of Christ, you should repent (i.e. have godly sorrow of wrongdoing), and sanctify yourself (i.e. depart from) those who taught you that error. If you will not listen, I hope that helps someone else who reads this. Have a great day.
Your basic assertion about the book of Hebrews is wrong. 

It was written to Hebrew CHRISTIANS.  So the context is for Jewish converts to Christianity to understand the implications of the New Covenant in light of their understanding of the law and prophets.  Since they are part of the “new man”, the body of Christ, they needed help in understanding how that is different than being of the law.

That’s actually a very basic error you are making, there.  Don’t you see how simple it is that Hebrews was written to the Hebrew Christian’s and therefore applies to… Christians?
Interesting. So I gave you two examples from different sections of the Bible (both before and after the founding of the church), and you chose to hone in on the one you thought would give you best way to save face. You should be ashamed of yourself. I could have given you MANY more examples than that, but I chose those couple to see what you would do, and you did that which was deceitful.

Just because you do not want to acknowledge the truth of repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of one's sin), doesn't mean that others don't need to hear it, and I'm going to keep telling them the truth, whether you like it or not.
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
-1Ti 5:20

Have a great day.
Do you hear yourself?  You are making accusations against people based on your understanding of scripture, which I am showing you has some problems.  Calling names and being aggressive with people you don’t even know.  That’s not the biblically prescribed way for believers to behave at all.

I addressed the first passage you submitted, which is a very natural thing to do to address things sequentially.  Your view on Hebrews is so flawed that I didn’t think it necessary to address the other two passages.

I’m happy to discuss Matthew 22 and/or Luke 24.  Are you willing to acknowledge that you made an incorrect claim about the context of Hebrews, though?

Because dude, you are way off on that one.  So much so that it heavily strengthens my argument and weakens yours.  If you can’t see that, then it’s probably not going to be helpful to discuss the other two with you.  Though I’m still happy to do it.

But you need re-examine this ridiculous tactic of calling people hypocrites and false teachers and accusing people of being against Christ.  That’s not how the church is to act.  We to correct each other in love, and use scripture to guide one another into a better understanding.
Do you hear yourself? — Certainly. I can also read what another person is saying. It would be great if you could try that out because it would help this process go much smoother.

You are making accusations against people based on your understanding of scripture, which I am showing you has some problems. — No, you ignored the arguments I made. I am fully aware that the Hebrews in the book of Hebrews were the Christians in the church, but you will not admit your contradiction. There's not much more I can do for you to help you see it because this format isn't suitable for it.

I addressed the first passage you submitted, which is a very natural thing to do to address things sequentially.  Your view on Hebrews is so flawed that I didn’t think it necessary to address the other two passages. — I never claimed that the Hebrews being spoken to were not Christians. Maybe you should go back and read it again.

Calling names and being aggressive with people you don’t even know.  That’s not the biblically prescribed way for believers to behave at all. — Wow. According to your beliefs, it must have been unbiblical when Jesus called false teachers hypocrites, vipers, and whited tombs. It must have been unbiblical when he whipped the money changers and knocked over their tables. I thought I was being peaceful in comparison. You should let Christ know he's not acting very Christ-like.

I’m happy to discuss Matthew 22 and/or Luke 24.  Are you willing to acknowledge that you made an incorrect claim about the context of Hebrews, though? — What incorrect claim? Please try to read what people are writing to you. I NEVER claimed that the church was not being spoken to. I said the Hebrews were being spoken to, whether they were Christian or not. You made up strawman arguments, and refused to acknowledge your error. Again, you're wasting my time because you're not having a discussion with me because you will not acknowledge the things I am writing to you. I have other work to do, so if you don't want to acknowledge the points I made, then I'll bid you a good day, and be on my way.

So much so that it heavily strengthens my argument and weakens yours. — Self-promotion is not an argument. I really don't have time for that.

But you need re-examine this ridiculous tactic of calling people hypocrites and false teachers and accusing people of being against Christ.  That’s not how the church is to act. — Look, it didn't take long reading your posts to see that you care more about the tradition you have learned than you care about Scripture. It was very easy to see, and there's tons of reasons for that I don't have space for in this post. I will, however, try to help for sake of anyone else reading this:
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. -Acts 20:29-31

I can't post links here, so I cannot give you more, otherwise I could show you full commentaries I've written on the books of Corinthians where, for example, Paul had to deal with false teachers and called them out. He did this a lot, and most of Jesus's preaching was about false converts. So please, go to God, and tell him all the problems you have with His Word, and that He does not handle matters according to your personal preferences. I need to get back to work. Have a great day, and I hope you depart in peace.

We to correct each other in love, and use scripture to guide one another into a better understanding. — There's nothing more loving than the truth, even if the person's feelings get hurt in the process. The truth is that your belief is an insurance policy for you, so when you find something in the New Testament you disagree with, you can say "that was for the Jews." I've been working in ministry for many years. This isn't my first interaction with people who reject repentance and talk like you do.
But you aren’t teaching the truth.  You are wrong.  You don’t understand something as fundamental as who the letter to the Hebrews was written to.  And instead of acknowledging that, you double down on accusing me of being against Christ.

You’re doing it wrong. 

Hebrews is written to the Church.  Yes or no?
I answered that in the last response I gave to you. Thus, you just proved to me that you're not reading my posts. I'm sorry, but I have a lot of work to do, and I cannot have you wasting my time because you don't want to read.

I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the coming rough months, and I pray that He has as much mercy on you and your family as He has had on me and mine.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14
You did not address that.

Here is what you originally wrote:

“For example, Hebrews was written to... you guessed it... the Hebrew people. However, that is where we get this verse:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
-Hebrews 10:25

Now, if you are going to be consistent in your belief, namely, "that which is preached to the Israel is not meant for the church," then you need to start telling people that the church does not need to assemble together…”

There it is.  First you say Hebrews is written to the Hebrew people.  You stop short of saying “Hebrew CONVERTS to Christianity.”

You do this as a straw man, because you claim my argument is “that which is preached to Israel is not meant for the church.”  Which is not what I am saying.  What I am saying is that the program changed at the point the New Covenant was offered, and you are injecting a context to Mathew 7 that isn’t in the text.

The context of Mathew 7 is quite clearly how to distinguish between false teachers and prophets, and genuine ones.  It is not about the Church-age Christian assessing themselves on the authenticity of their faith.

So the implication you make is that I am wrong because my position would necessitate that I disregard the instruction to the Hebrew Christians as being for the church.  It’s a completely absurd claim on your part.  It in no way refutes the position I am putting forward and in fact it strengthens it.

“…Of course, I know you won't do that because it won't look good on you, but that means you need to either confess the error of your words, or you will be found to be a hypocrite who says one thing and does another.”

Here you seem to be implying that salvation comes by faith AND “having godly sorrow of wrongdoing and sanctifying oneself”.  Which sounds an awful lot like you’re making salvation CONDITIONAL on a particular emotional response to one’s sin. 

That’s unbiblical.  I think you are telling people if they don’t have a “godly sorrow” then they aren’t saved.  Kinda like how the hyper charismatics say if you don’t speak in tongues you’re not saved.

Dude, a person who genuinely believes on the Lord Jesus, that His atoning work on the cross was sufficient for the complete justification of sins, and accepts that gift is saved.  Period.  Some will have a deeply profound sense of remorse over their sin (as I have), while others will acknowledge their sin and need for Jesus without that.  But it is impossible to genuinely believe on Jesus without repenting, for to believe on Him for forgiveness means the acknowledgment that there is an offense needing to be forgiven.

Acts 16:30-33

“and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.”
Acts 16:30-33

John 5:24

““Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
John 5:24

I’m suspicious you might also interpret Matthew 25 as being to the Church. 

“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
Matthew 25:44-46

So if I don’t visit the “least of these” in prison, I will be cast into eternal punishment then?
END OF DISCUSSION
I'll comment more below. Comment as you see fit.

344

What's New @ CLE / A Few Social Media Website Updates

« on: January 20, 2022, 09:48:53 AM »

Today, I made a few changes to the website.

1. There is a new search bar. This new bar should be a bit faster than the old one. Also, the site search will no longer use Google -- it will now search creationliberty.com through DuckDuckGo.

2. There are now two Telegram buttons on the side. One will take you to the CLE Ministry Updates channel, which is a channel that does not have comments, and is purposed only to get information out about new ministry teachings and updates. The other button will take you to the CLE World News channel, where I post information on current events concerning what is going on in the current WW3 that we are in, which I created to make sure Christian families can stay up to date on what's happening, so they know best how to protect themselves and their homes.

3. This is not a change, but a notification. I have not fully decided what I am going to do yet, but there is one thing I know for certain--if it works well, and I suspect it will, then I will be joining Donald Trump's Truth Social media platform that is supposed to be coming out in about four weeks. (i.e. mid-Feb) There are many reasons I will be joining this, and I have heard that it will have a paid subscription, but that is fine with me; I'll pay the fee because it is going to be ad-free, completely secure from Deep State hacks, completely freedom of speech without censorship, and you all should be able to watch and listen without having to pay anything. Things could change in the future, so I'll update you all as I make decisions.

Also, I may be cutting out some social media I currently have on the site. There are some of them that are getting almost no traffic, so I may be dropping them to save myself time.

As it stands, I should be staying on Rumble, and the reason for that is because, as far as I understand it, Donald Trump's acquisition company purchased Rumble, and has been moving all of Rumble's servers from Canada to the U.S. in a secure location, which not only will mean Rumble will be faster and more secure, but it also means that it will be part of the Truth Social platform, and that should also mean that I will not have to do any video re-uploading, and that any of your Rumble subscriptions should be smoothly transferred in partnership with Truth Social.

We don't know how Truth Social is going to work yet, so all of this is subject to change. But I do hope you all like these new changes, and as far as I know, I will be sticking with Telegram, as it has become the first social media platform I actually like (it's fast, easy, uncensored, and the highest security social media platform out there right now), and I have been using it frequently, so if you want updates, download Telegram and join us.

345

What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p30

« on: January 07, 2022, 03:30:35 PM »

346

What's New @ CLE / (ARTICLE) Unbiblical Cop-outs 'Don't Judge Me!'

« on: December 30, 2021, 02:16:01 PM »

Unbiblical Cop-outs: 'Don't Judge Me!'

This teaching has been completely rewritten and greatly expanded. When going back through it, I actually enjoyed reading it. I usually don't like to go back through my own stuff, but I enjoyed this one. I know I have a biased opinion here, but I believe this is one of the more powerful teachings I've ever written. Decide for yourself.

347

What's New @ CLE / Re: (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p29

« on: December 28, 2021, 08:20:18 AM »

That's right. I had that in the wrong context. I'll have to correct that next time I talk about it.

348

What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p29

« on: December 27, 2021, 03:18:06 PM »

349

General Discussion / Re: Exposing a Woman Named 'Madonna'

« on: December 23, 2021, 10:55:54 AM »

Just to clarify, Madonna wrote all this two days after she was giving everyone hugs and saying everyone was just fine in the church. We had no other communication with her between that day, and the Skype conversation.

Why did she keep it a secret that she was leaving the church? Why didn't she talk to us about it while we were all face-to-face? Why the facade and deception?

In Madonna's view, we are the only ones who need to examine ourselves. She doesn't need to do it because she feels she is the "matriarch." That was my point. It's exactly what Tim said in the Skype chat a year ago... it's pride of heart. We wanted to reason with her, but she wanted to slap and run. There's nothing more we can do, but since she is STILL continuing to manipulate and deceive people behind the scenes, now we have to bring all this out publicly.

Food for thought: If I am so terrible, as Madonna claims, and we are all a wicked religious cult, then why does she still come here and read the discussion on our forum? Hmm.

Whatever those six people who left want to do is up to them. We don't sneak around and try to figure out everything their doing. It's their business, not ours. We don't skulk around in the darkness to get some sort of revenge for something. However, that's what Madonna is doing because she is a busybody.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
-1Pe 4:15

So, if you know them by their fruits, all we have to do is ask ourselves who is operating openly in the light, and who is skulking around in the shadows? It's not rocket science.

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
-Eph 5:9-14

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
-John 3:19-21

350

General Discussion / Exposing a Woman Named 'Madonna'

« on: December 21, 2021, 10:26:06 AM »

In Feb of 2020, a woman (who now lives in Florida) named Madonna joined our church, and in December of that same year, she left in anger before any of us had a chance to talk with her. Under normal circumstances, I would not be posting any of this information, but this woman has become so manipulative and vindictive, she has left me no choice. Last week, we found out that Madonna has been searching for contact information from new members to this forum, sneaking around to try and manipulate them against me personally before they have had a chance to converse with any of us.

I also recently found out that she has been successful in her endeavors to some degree, and that's why she keeps doing it. Since Madonna has attempted to do these things in secret, and she won't come forward with the truth of her actions, I'm now going to make them public for all to see. Hopefully, if anyone is contacted by this woman and is confused by her rhetoric, we can send them this link to clear up the matter. Whether or not any of you choose to listen to her is up to you, and we still wish you well if you choose to leave based on what she says, but I hope you'll read this first to make sure you get all facts.

Madonna did not come into the church by the normal means everyone else does, and I made the mistake of trying to be charitable to her because she claimed not to have much understanding with computers in her old age. This turned out to be false, but that is the way she manipulates people. She is elderly, but she knows how to use phones, Skype, and other programs well enough, and we now know she simply wanted to avoid having to join the church by having discussion with us first because she knows that likely would have revealed her for who she is.

Furthermore, when she joined, she expected to be treated as some sort of matriarch because she claims she was saved at the age of 12, which would mean that she had ALLEGEDLY been saved for about 50 years. However, the evidence of her salvation was lacking the more we talked with her. (i.e. Today, I do not believe she was ever born again in Christ.) Nonetheless, she wanted to be treated like she was the female bringer of wisdom to all the church, and when I would have to rebuke her on an almost weekly basis for bringing false information into the church, she did not like it.

I remember one example that I think will help give a good idea of what Madonna was doing during our weekly Skype calls in our church. I happened to mention "Where's Waldo?" (i.e. the children's book) in a joking manner concerning something we were talking about. Immediately upon saying this, Madonna tells everyone that it was a historical fact that "Where's Waldo" was created by the Jesuits to train children to hunt down Christians because "Waldo" was supposed to be representative of the "Waldensians." (i.e. the 15th century Christians who were being killed by the Catholic Church for preaching the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ)

At that point, I asked Madonna where she got that information from. She stuttered (as she normally does when she's called out on making up things from her imagination and treating them like they're facts), and then said she "couldn't remember." I took a few minutes and looked up a number of sources talking about the origin of "Where's Waldo?" and it turns out that it was created in the 20th century by an Australian man, and it was originally called "Where's Wally?" but was only changed to "Waldo" for marketing reasons when it came the U.S.

Whereas Madonna had no information or references for her statement, she then demanded to know where I got my information from. See the hypocrisy? She would do this almost every week with something, and it was always about Jesuit conspiracies.

Now, don't misunderstand; I believe the Jesuits are a secret cabal that do wicked things in the dark, and that is a conspiratorial organization by definition. However, to Madonna, EVERYTHING she disagreed with was a Jesuit conspiracy because she was one of those people who I would say treated her ideas about Jesuit conspiracies as if it were of equal importance to the Gospel of Salvation in Jesus Christ.

For example, one time, our church got to discussing the corruptions of Martin Luther because I had written an expose on the unbiblical nature of denominations, and Madonna immediately jumps in to defend Martin Luther, treating him with the same importance as if he were one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. When I started to give her direct quotes from some of the wicked things that Martin Luther said, her response was to argue that all those bad things were inserted into history books by the Jesuits to make him look bad.

Knowing Madonna as I had come to know her, I knew she didn't have one tiny bit of evidence to her claim, she would always just state these things as fact, and then expected us to trust her feelings (i.e. because she is also one of those people who believe that her feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Ghost, which is a dangerous philosophy for many Scriptural reasons). So I asked her, "How do you know the Jesuits did not write in the good things about Martin Luther to deceive you?" Of course, as she normally does, she stutters because she got called out, and I remember, she paused for a moment, and then asked, "What?!" I repeated my question in more detail to try and help her understand because, if you claim that the Jesuits inserted information into historical records, then we can't trust ANY historical records, including the things that Madonna favors, or in other words, her way of thinking would not allow us to believe ANYTHING that was written throughout history, and so Madonna's personal feelings would become the ultimate decider of "truth" because she believes her feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Ghost.

So why did we put up with her in the church for so long? Charity and patience. That's why. And she took advantage of our good manners. It took me a few months to realize what was going on, but Madonna is extremely manipulative because she does something called "gaslighting." When Madonna was called out on the garbage she was spewing out of her mouth, she would push back with rapid fire questions that had nothing to do with the subject matter, in order to make you forget about the topic at hand, and then question your own sanity to wonder if you had any reasoning in the first place. She's very good at it, and if you don't stop her mouth when she starts doing it, she will manipulate you, and she was successful at doing it with about five other members of our church, who all left about the same time she did in December of 2020.

The next part of this story I will try to keep brief because there are a lot of details that would take too long to explain. Our church had a big event meetup. Many of us are online in different states and countries, so we had our first event to meetup together for a week at our home in Indiana (i.e. many of us had never met face to face). With the help of some of my family out here, we had places for everyone to stay, and were all ready to go, but behind our backs, Madonna (with the help of two women she manipulated) arranged an AirBnB house for her and the two women specifically (without contact any of the elders running the event), and that house they rented was located in Indianapolis, a two-hour round trip drive from our home. In case you don't understand, she and the other two women were traveling a two-hour round trip everyday throughout the week, and spending most of their time together by themselves, away from the rest of the church, at the AirBnB.

If any of you are asking yourselves why she would do this, or how that makes sense, please let us know if you figure it out because we're now a year later, and our church has STILL not been able to make sense of this. Skipping past a LOT of other weird things that went on, the bottom line was that there was gossip rumors going around based on this group (there were total of 4 women and 2 men where the problem was coming from), and Lorraine and I were working so hard with little sleep to feed and take care of 20 people in our church--I finally had had enough. The day before everyone left, I sat everyone down and just got everything off my chest. I was tired of the facade, so I called them all out in front of the church.

Madonna obviously took great offense to this, but she put on a show, a big act full of niceties, giving everyone hugs afterwards and acting like we had all worked things out. However, two days after everyone left, Madonna gets on Skype and starts sending us Scripture references that she claimed we all need to read. This was sent in a very vindictive manner, and the Scripture was not used for the purpose of our study and understanding, but she sent them to us in a vengeful manner like a back-handed slap. One of the elders in our church saw this, and gently asked her what this was all about? She would not respond. Within a few days, the four women left the church without EVER addressing the church as a whole over their grievances (and the two men did the same thing a few weeks later), while hypocritically accusing me of not following proper Biblical procedure, when I DID address the church as a whole multiple times, and the church knows this, and can testify to this fact.
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
-Mat 18:15-17
NONE of the six people who left (which includes Madonna) did that. They all ignored the commandments of Christ while accusing me of refusing to do what they refused to do.

Madonna absolutely did not want to do this because she viewed herself as a "matriarch" of the church, and she believes she should not have to be held accountable for anything she says and does, and because I don't want to make this too long, I'm leaving out TONS of details that would make your head spin. However, I will leave that to the rest of the church who witnessed these things, as I will state in a moment.

This is a warning to new members to our forum, this woman might try to contact you and manipulate you. If you want to leave us and follow her, that's your decision, but whatever you decide to do, please keep studying Scripture and stay vigilant.

Madonna chose to start sneaking around, skulking in the darkness to try and manipulate people, so we're bringing her to the light now since she's too cowardly to come forward.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
-Eph 5:8-13

If any members of our church have had interaction with Madonna, and you would like to share your testimony (including any evidence, like direct quotes and screenshots of conversations you have had with her) feel free to do so. If there is anything I have said here that any of you remember, and you would like to confirm it and back up what I said, feel free to do that too; it helps when we back up each others' testimonies.
If anyone here has NOT had interaction with her, please do not comment because I don't want this thread to get jumbled. The purpose of this thread is to provide information so new members who are contacted by her can get all the facts and make their own decision about what they are reading.

If Madonna reads this, please know that God will judge all these matters, and all the hearts of men will be revealed for what they are, including yours, so it is important that you come to repentance and faith in Christ so you can be born again before it's too late.

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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p28

« on: December 06, 2021, 04:43:20 PM »

352

Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: My Ministry Does Not Exist To Tell You What To Do

« on: December 01, 2021, 03:07:04 PM »

I think what I would add to that, which I forgot to write down is this:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
-2Ti 3:16-17

This is what Scripture is for. It is not "instruction unto buying habits, that the man of God may do holy shopping." I just want to make sure that's clarified for everyone.

353

Wild Emails @ CLE / My Ministry Does Not Exist To Tell You What To Do

« on: November 30, 2021, 02:36:03 PM »

At the end, I'll explain why I'm posting this letter. This is not the first time he has written me. I cannot remember why I responded to him in the first place because I normally would not respond to anyone who does not provide their first name. (He only provided an abbreviation.)
NS FROM JAPAN:
I have a question about Christian doctrine that I want to ask you about: What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses? I have probably believed for a very long time that if a Christian buys from a business that does its business legitimately but uses its money to do things like support BLM in creating violence and murdering people, that Christian is basically guilty of murder along with the business that donated and BLM itself. Based on the last email exchange I have with you months ago, you seem to believe otherwise(?) Would you please teach me on what the proper Biblical answer to my question is and point out my errors if I have made any? Please forgive me if I am wasting your time again(like I did months ago, I am at times a foolish person who doesn't see the obvious)
What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses?
I don't know, you tell me.
First of all, you wrote that " When we see Hallmark greeting cards in stores (like the one shown here), the solution to the problem is not to boycott the store because the store doesn't care. Though some businesses do take stands on political/religious matters, most of them don't take any stand one way or another. They only provide what will make them money, and since our nation is getting more wicked every day, these cards, and other paraphernalia, will only become more commonplace " How can you say that you don't know a Christian ethic when it comes to businesses? I don't get it, but you seem to be okay for other doctrines, so perhaps this is just a small oversight.

The Bible says that the entire law is basically 1. Do what God commands you to do, and 2. Treat others the same way you want to be treated.
I found out some time ago that YouTube, for example, has done things such as supporting BLM(who murdered quite a number of Americans and caused a lot of harm to Americans) and censoring non-WHO approved views of COVID-19, which may have killed a lot of people. The people of the world have their consciences defiled and seared with a hot iron, so they will do what's right in their own eyes and they will continue doing what they think is right unless they are born-again - corruption is everywhere. So, if I were to watch some videos on YT, they're almost certainly going to show me some ads, and almost every time I get those YT gets richer and is more able to do evil, not to mention that the Biden admin and DOJ is doing nothing about it. In other words, if I were to use YouTube, I'm basically harming people.

Some people have said that it's YouTube that's the bad guy and consumers are innocent, but isn't that a foolish argument if we compare it to what the Bible says? Some time ago I wrote to you about YouTube videos getting posted openly on the CLE forum and that's basically inviting people to watch the video and cause YT to earn money off it, which harms others and I didn't get a clear reason why no action was taken or something.

So, this is what I have to say, please point out any errors and correct me if I made any.
I'm going to point out the problem with your email, tell you the same thing I told you last time, and then I'm going to block your email address because you're not listening to me.

1. What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses?
The first thing I expect to see when someone writes me a letter entitled "Question about Biblical Doctrine" is... ya know... THE BIBLE. So, for example, someone might say, "Hey, I was reading these verses, and I was not understanding X, what does this mean?" Now that's a question about Biblical doctrine. That is not at all what you were doing. Your question was asking for MY opinion about what YOU should do concerning businesses. My opinion is irrelevant. And I'm pretty sure I told you last time that I am NOT going to tell you what to do in your own household because that is not my job (and that's not what I did in the article), and what you asked me was NOT a question about "Biblical doctrine." (In fact, so far, you haven't asked me a single question about Biblical doctrine since you first wrote to me, but you think they're all "Bible questions.")

2. Concerning my quote, you didn't say where you got it from. The context of the article explains what I meant; when everyone is carrying queer greeting cards (which most places do nowadays), then where are you supposed to go to buy what you need? Some people have choices, others don't. If I tell them to boycott the stores, I could be telling a family to starve, and I'm not going to do that. The solution is to look at the heart of the problem, not at the surface issues, and I certainly did not write that to give you an excuse to treat me like I'm your personal priest, or your dad, or your god. I am none of those, and that is NOT my job.

3. I told you last time (and nothing has changed) that I believe that your way of thinking is different from my way of thinking, and that of our forum and our church. If you want someone to tell you what to do, go find another ministry. There are LOADS of them out there that will tell you exactly what you should do on all the matters you have brought up to me. We focus on liberty in Christ and conviction from the Holy Ghost for each individual Christian according to the context of their situation. As I told you before, it's better that you depart from this ministry and go find what you're looking for because I don't want you to waste your time, and I don't want you to waste mine either. I hope God guides you to the place you can get what you're looking for.

With that, I'm going to block your email address because I just cannot continue conversation with someone who's not going to hear me. I don't want to have to keep writing the same thing over and over to the same person.
END OF DISCUSSION
He titled his letter "Question about Biblical Doctrine," but to summarize (and I'm creating an analogy here), he basically asked me if it was a sin to buy a lamp from IKEA. Folks, let me make this VERY clear: I AM NOT HERE FOR THAT. I do not exist to tell you what to do in your life, household, and buying habits. That is the job of the Holy Spirit within you. There are TONS of ministries out there who have corrupt preachers that are more than willing to overstep the authority of the Holy Ghost to tell you what to do, so go join them if that is what you're looking for.

This guy has previously written me asking me if he should join the Japanese military. I told him that I am not his father or his god. Then, after I told him similar things that I explained to him in this letter, he wrote me again asking me, and I quote: "would you not consider me a murderer if I had a YouTube channel?" After I explained this to him again, he went back to his original question about the Japanese military, and then asked me if the Japanese constitution is Biblical, to which, I ignored his letter, and now, a few months later, he's back.

This is why my wording to him was stronger than my original letters.

The reason my first response to him in the above email was just to say "I don't know, you tell me," was to get him to attempt to explain it on his own, as well as communicate to him that I was not going to answer his questions, even though I had already DIRECTLY said that to him in previous letters, and he ignored me. You can tell by the tone of his response, he did not like my first response to him, and was, at least somewhat, upset with me.

Some of you might have though he was being humble, but humility involves the ability to listen to someone else. He was not listening to me because I was not giving him the answers he wanted. If he expected me to give him a specific answer, then there is no point in asking me the question anyway because he already had in his mind what he wanted me to say.

I am willing to listen and give advice when I'm asked for it, and help to understand Scripture if someone is struggling in their study, but I am not willing to give someone orders (in the name of God's Word) that they should do whatever it is they are asking me about. My job is to help Christians understand the philosophy and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ while they bring their humble requests to the Lord God, to live in His grace of liberty, and whatever you choose to do in your household is your responsibility, not mine, and you will be judged according to your decisions, not mine.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
-Gal 5:1

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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p27

« on: November 29, 2021, 12:03:26 PM »

355

Bible Discussion / Re: Is this rebuke Biblical?

« on: November 28, 2021, 09:48:34 AM »

Just to clarify, this topic was over a year ago. I have already done a teaching on that subject (with an audio teaching):
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/fellowship.php

356

What's New @ CLE / (CORRECTION) Christmas and Semiramis/Tammuz/Nimrod

« on: November 26, 2021, 11:25:37 AM »

I recently rewrote the Christmas article into a full length book.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/christmas.php

In doing so, I eliminated a large fraction of the teaching, and it was specifically on the subject of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. It turns out, the entire thing was false.

When I first wrote that teaching, I was working another job to make ends meet. I did not have as much time to work on my writing as I have now, and over the years, I've gained more experience. So now, with better experience, and full-time in ministry (thanks to the Lord God for to the donations of a handful of you out there every month who help us out), I was able to investigate my references a little closer.

When I originally wrote on that subject, I had a variety of sources, but what I did not realize at the time was that everyone of those sources pointed back to ONE source, and they were all pointing to the EXACT SAME source. That source was a pamphlet called "The Two Babylons" written in 1853 by a Scottish Presbyterian theologian named Alexander Hislop.

I checked out Hislop's pamphlet (which has been republished into books many times), and there are NO sources, eyewitnesses, or any other documentation I can find in it to prove his points. He literally makes up the story as he goes, and there is NO EVIDENCE to back up the claims.

So what a bunch of authors do is take his book, repeat his false information because it makes them sound smart, and then they start making money from sales. If you don't believe me, do the research for yourself. Look up any books that talk about the Semiramis/Tammuz mother/son sexual relation in Babylon, and you will find that the author does one of the follow:

1. Provides no references.
2. References back to Hislop's 1853 "The Two Babylons" pamphlet.
3. Provides references to others book that also reference "The Two Babylons."
(Previously, I was in category #3, and I got fooled because I did not look closely enough.)

Please do not misunderstand; "MYSTERY BABYLON" in Scripture (Revelation 17) is still paganism started in Babylon, separated by languages (where we get so many names for the pagan gods and goddesses), and then perverted by the Catholic Church into a demonic fusion of Babylonian witchcraft with the Bible. Nothing has changed on that subject, but I wanted to correct the details on Semiramis because I can't go back and change the old audio I had on the subject; so please be cautious when listening to my old Christmas audio teachings--I will be doing new ones in the future when we get around to it.

Thanks for your patience as I work on these older projects to correct, edit, add to, and polish them.

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (BOOK) Christmas: Rejecting Jesus

« on: November 25, 2021, 11:20:51 PM »

I rewrote the article into a full length book. The old audio files are outdated now. There will be a new audio teaching on this when I get to that point in the weekly teachings, but it will probably be 2-3 years from now at this rate.

358

Introduce Yourself / Re: Introduction

« on: November 25, 2021, 01:35:09 PM »

They gave God praise when it was beneficial for them to appear righteous, but they never actually cared for the understanding of the gospel because they "went to church" and there's no way God would send them to the lake of fire.

Precisely. Just look at how many church buildings closed their doors and "social distance" (i.e. a load of senseless garbage) when the government told us to lockdown and wear a mask. They can't even stand for what's right on simple matters like that. Where will we find Christians when the days of Revelation come to pass? Unless by the will of God, probably in prisons, but there will be MANY fake "Christians" doing whatever they are told to do because they don't serve Christ.

He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
-Luke 16:10

359

Introduce Yourself / Re: Hi! New member's testimony.

« on: November 25, 2021, 01:24:46 PM »

I definitely will get around the checking out the repentance teaching. I've only found Chris' page quite recently within the last few weeks. But since then i've really found the teachings helpful to go along with my daily bible reading. I work at a daycare center so we have the long weekend off. That will give me plenty of time to read it.

If you want, here is the audio teaching for that. Could save you some time:
https://youtu.be/NEI_H3QUb7Q?t=21

It may be surprising for you to learn that have had a number of friends in the past (i.e. women) who I have volunteered my time to help them at the daycares they worked at (i.e. some of them owned their own businesses doing it). I say this so you can know that I can empathize with your situation, knowing intimately what you have to deal with.

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on the repentance teaching; would very much like to read your thoughts on it if you listen to at least part 1 of the audio teaching as well. Thanks for taking the time on that; looking forward to your response.

360

Introduce Yourself / Re: Hi! New member's testimony.

« on: November 25, 2021, 11:34:18 AM »

First of all, I gotta' say how great it is to get a solid testimony given in an introduction, especially on the first try. It's been a while since we've had a good one, and that was a pleasure to read.

I have to apologize for my poorly written work on the King James Bible. That was written back when I was still working a job to help make ends meet before I went full time in ministry. I do have plans to rewrite that into a full-length book, but I have a few others projects I'm working on right now, so it's going to be a while before that happens.

Rowan and Ellie both said everything else I thought to say, except for one thing... not celebrating holidays is not a requirement to be with our church. I don't want you to misunderstand; we are against the paganism and witchcraft of the holidays, but the problem is that anyone who would participate in them (i.e. if someone was doing that in the church), it would strike up continual conflicts in conversation, which would end up causing contention, and that would not be good for the church, and so rather, it is more that we need to be of like mind (i.e. having the same philosophy/way of thinking), which you seem to have with us.

Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
-Phil 2:2

I was curious about one thing, did you ever get time to look at the teaching I did on repentance?
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
If you haven't, that's alright, but if you have, I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.