321
What's New @ CLE / Re: (WEEKLY TEACHING) Unbiblical Cop-Outs: "Don't Judge Me!" p3
« on: March 01, 2022, 02:56:23 PM »
No, I just forgot to change the title. The file is the new one. I fixed it.
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322
General Discussion / Re: Exchange on "The Mark" (Telegram)
« on: March 01, 2022, 10:04:50 AM »
Ha ha ha ha!!!
I won't say much but this:
Sorry to tell you but a document is not conclusive evidence to me.
Then quotes a document for supporting evidence...
Galatians 5 tells us that those fruits are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness... these are the things that there can be no doubt about.
I won't say much but this:
Sorry to tell you but a document is not conclusive evidence to me.
Then quotes a document for supporting evidence...
Galatians 5 tells us that those fruits are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness... these are the things that there can be no doubt about.
323
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Unbiblical Cop-Outs: "Don't Judge Me!" p3
« on: February 28, 2022, 01:11:30 PM »324
Wild Emails @ CLE / You Do and Do Not Need Repentance for Salvation - ???
« on: February 28, 2022, 01:09:35 PM »
There is a man named Nate who has been writing me for years. I've had a lot of back and forths from this guy, and what's been fascinating about his letters is that he keeps flip-flopping. In one letter, he would state that the KJB is the preserved Word of God, and then in another letter, he would condemn those who are pro-KJB. In one letter, he would state that repentance is godly sorrow, and then turn around in another letter, and condemn all those who believe repentance is godly sorrow. If you want to see some of his conversation, it's still documented on our forum, and here are some examples:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=678.msg5510#msg5510
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=659.msg5308#msg5308
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=680.msg5514#msg5514
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=681.msg5517#msg5517
There are many more than just this. We tried to be patient with him, but he kept doing this to a point that we had to kick him off our forum just for his contention and railing alone. The following is another letter he sent me just last night, and he sent this from a new email address because I've block multiple email addresses that he has.
NATE FROM USA
I just did a review of your teaching on MeWe. Here is the full article.
Christopher J. E. Johnson: the most subtle, dangerous, pseudo-King James Only jerk on planet earth.
Johnson teaches that God must give you repentance BEFORE you can get saved and teaches that repentance is godly sorrow when the guy obviously can't read 2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV which says "godly sorrow WORKETH repentance to salvation" not that it's repentance itself.
Johnson claims that you can believe and trust in Christ for salvation and still go to Hell if God didn't make you wallow in tears and grief over your sins first.
As I've said in the past, all truly saved people will repent and grieve over their sins, but the Bible doesn't teach that you have to go through a process of repentance that God must give you BEFORE you can be saved! That's heresy.
Christopher J. E. Johnson is basically a closet Calvinist crackhead who teaches that God must give every individual person repentance BEFORE they can be saved. Acts 11:18 disagrees and says God ALREADY has granted repentance to the Gentiles AS A WHOLE, but Johnson has given a false definition of repentance altogether based on a retards reading of 2 Corinthians 7:10!
Johnson is a Creationist, a professing King James Bible believer and a liar. Another smooth operator who looks convincing if you're not paying CLOSE attention!
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php
From you, in 2019 on our forum:
You guys need to check yourselves! I thank God I'm saved and I don't have to take or appreciate the self righteous tone in which I was talked to either. I have no patience for this Pharisaical anti-501c3 churches snobbery either. Ugh please just delete my account
From you, later in 2019 in email:
I repent brother. I am sorry for every stupid, carnal thing I said!
Please tell everyone that I apologize to them as well.
From you, in 2020 in a Facebook PM:
Hi Mr. Johnson, I wanted to let you know that I'm exposing your false teachings on Twitter.
And now here you are again in 2022. I'm almost at a loss for words.
Doing my best to ignore the fact that you've lied about your name more than once, I cannot help you. You have had malicious intent against me for years now, and I have a lot of documentation of all your backbiting and hatred against me. Whatever revenge you want to take on me for whatever offense you believe I caused against you, that's your business. Go do what you think you need to do. I just do not have time for this, and I'm not doing this dance with you anymore.
As for your "review," I really could not care less. The reason for that is because, in the book, I answered every argument you made. So, anyone who is looking for the truth would only need to read your review, and then read my book, and the Holy Spirit will guide them to the truth of the matter. I trust in Him to do that. Thus, I hope you spread out that "review" as far as you can because it proves the point, and I appreciate your effort, and hope many people read it.
With that, I'm blocking your email address (again, as I have already done in the past with your other email addresses) because you need to move on somewhere else, and learn to let go of that animosity. This ministry is not the right place for you, and I do not want to waste my time anymore than I want you to waste yours. I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for, and may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and your family with as much mercy as He has given to me and mine.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9
Have a great day.
I read your whole book and you did NOT answer the points I bring up in the review. You teach a false definition of repentance and a false and dangerous twisting of Christ's plain Salvation. You make Salvation hard for the sinner CONTRARY to what the King James Bible says!
I only brought you up because of current discussions among real Christians about real Biblical repentance and I thought of you as being the most dangerous false repentance teacher in America, which you are!
You can't answer the charge because you twist the verses on repentance and what the word even wants as I perfectly highlighted by your inability to read 2 Corinthians 7:10 correctly.
I have feelings against you the same way I do all false teachers who are enemies of the cross of Christ. You're a serpent and at least I call you out publicly.
Good day,
END OF DISCUSSION
Of course, I had no interest in demonstrating Nate's errors for him because, first of all, he has proven time and time again that he will not listen to anyone except Nate. Secondly, if he keeps publishing his false statements, it will only prove my book is correct for those who spend the time to study out the matter. And finally, the only reason Nate sent me this letter is because he wants me to come onto his social media and start up debate with him, and I have no interest in that because we have already been through all the details with him on this forum, and I have done it multiple times with him over email.
For example, he said:
"the Bible doesn't teach that you have to go through a process of repentance that God must give you BEFORE you can be saved! That's heresy."
In my book, Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell (which is free-to-read on my website), it says:
If you are reading this message of repentance and faith in Christ, and the lessons of these parables, and you understand and believe it, you did not receive it because of your intellect, nor are you receiving it because of me. God has had mercy on you and prepared your heart to receive understanding, and so I would say to you the same thing Jesus said: Repent, and believe the gospel.
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
-Mark 1:14-15
I did not teach that. Jesus Christ taught that, which is why I quoted Him in Mark 1. Heresy is defined as a doctrine or other ideology that goes against the standard teachings of a religious practice, and therefore, in this context, Nate is claiming that what I taught goes against what Jesus Christ taught, but if you read what Jesus taught, then Nate is the heretic.
That's just one example. I'll leave it to you all to decide for yourselves, but just read this VERY carefully, and you all tell me what you think. This is from the letter he sent me two days ago (quoted above):
"all truly saved people will repent and grieve over their sins, but the Bible doesn't teach that you have to go through a process of repentance"
Bullet points on Nate's doctrine to consider:
-Anyone truly saved must have the godly sorrow of repentance.
-No one needs to have the godly sorrow of repentance to be saved.
Hmm.
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=678.msg5510#msg5510
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=659.msg5308#msg5308
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=680.msg5514#msg5514
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=681.msg5517#msg5517
There are many more than just this. We tried to be patient with him, but he kept doing this to a point that we had to kick him off our forum just for his contention and railing alone. The following is another letter he sent me just last night, and he sent this from a new email address because I've block multiple email addresses that he has.
NATE FROM USA
I just did a review of your teaching on MeWe. Here is the full article.
Christopher J. E. Johnson: the most subtle, dangerous, pseudo-King James Only jerk on planet earth.
Johnson teaches that God must give you repentance BEFORE you can get saved and teaches that repentance is godly sorrow when the guy obviously can't read 2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV which says "godly sorrow WORKETH repentance to salvation" not that it's repentance itself.
Johnson claims that you can believe and trust in Christ for salvation and still go to Hell if God didn't make you wallow in tears and grief over your sins first.
As I've said in the past, all truly saved people will repent and grieve over their sins, but the Bible doesn't teach that you have to go through a process of repentance that God must give you BEFORE you can be saved! That's heresy.
Christopher J. E. Johnson is basically a closet Calvinist crackhead who teaches that God must give every individual person repentance BEFORE they can be saved. Acts 11:18 disagrees and says God ALREADY has granted repentance to the Gentiles AS A WHOLE, but Johnson has given a false definition of repentance altogether based on a retards reading of 2 Corinthians 7:10!
Johnson is a Creationist, a professing King James Bible believer and a liar. Another smooth operator who looks convincing if you're not paying CLOSE attention!
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php
From you, in 2019 on our forum:
You guys need to check yourselves! I thank God I'm saved and I don't have to take or appreciate the self righteous tone in which I was talked to either. I have no patience for this Pharisaical anti-501c3 churches snobbery either. Ugh please just delete my account
From you, later in 2019 in email:
I repent brother. I am sorry for every stupid, carnal thing I said!
Please tell everyone that I apologize to them as well.
From you, in 2020 in a Facebook PM:
Hi Mr. Johnson, I wanted to let you know that I'm exposing your false teachings on Twitter.
And now here you are again in 2022. I'm almost at a loss for words.
Doing my best to ignore the fact that you've lied about your name more than once, I cannot help you. You have had malicious intent against me for years now, and I have a lot of documentation of all your backbiting and hatred against me. Whatever revenge you want to take on me for whatever offense you believe I caused against you, that's your business. Go do what you think you need to do. I just do not have time for this, and I'm not doing this dance with you anymore.
As for your "review," I really could not care less. The reason for that is because, in the book, I answered every argument you made. So, anyone who is looking for the truth would only need to read your review, and then read my book, and the Holy Spirit will guide them to the truth of the matter. I trust in Him to do that. Thus, I hope you spread out that "review" as far as you can because it proves the point, and I appreciate your effort, and hope many people read it.
With that, I'm blocking your email address (again, as I have already done in the past with your other email addresses) because you need to move on somewhere else, and learn to let go of that animosity. This ministry is not the right place for you, and I do not want to waste my time anymore than I want you to waste yours. I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for, and may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and your family with as much mercy as He has given to me and mine.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9
Have a great day.
I read your whole book and you did NOT answer the points I bring up in the review. You teach a false definition of repentance and a false and dangerous twisting of Christ's plain Salvation. You make Salvation hard for the sinner CONTRARY to what the King James Bible says!
I only brought you up because of current discussions among real Christians about real Biblical repentance and I thought of you as being the most dangerous false repentance teacher in America, which you are!
You can't answer the charge because you twist the verses on repentance and what the word even wants as I perfectly highlighted by your inability to read 2 Corinthians 7:10 correctly.
I have feelings against you the same way I do all false teachers who are enemies of the cross of Christ. You're a serpent and at least I call you out publicly.
Good day,
END OF DISCUSSION
Of course, I had no interest in demonstrating Nate's errors for him because, first of all, he has proven time and time again that he will not listen to anyone except Nate. Secondly, if he keeps publishing his false statements, it will only prove my book is correct for those who spend the time to study out the matter. And finally, the only reason Nate sent me this letter is because he wants me to come onto his social media and start up debate with him, and I have no interest in that because we have already been through all the details with him on this forum, and I have done it multiple times with him over email.
For example, he said:
"the Bible doesn't teach that you have to go through a process of repentance that God must give you BEFORE you can be saved! That's heresy."
In my book, Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell (which is free-to-read on my website), it says:
If you are reading this message of repentance and faith in Christ, and the lessons of these parables, and you understand and believe it, you did not receive it because of your intellect, nor are you receiving it because of me. God has had mercy on you and prepared your heart to receive understanding, and so I would say to you the same thing Jesus said: Repent, and believe the gospel.
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
-Mark 1:14-15
I did not teach that. Jesus Christ taught that, which is why I quoted Him in Mark 1. Heresy is defined as a doctrine or other ideology that goes against the standard teachings of a religious practice, and therefore, in this context, Nate is claiming that what I taught goes against what Jesus Christ taught, but if you read what Jesus taught, then Nate is the heretic.
That's just one example. I'll leave it to you all to decide for yourselves, but just read this VERY carefully, and you all tell me what you think. This is from the letter he sent me two days ago (quoted above):
"all truly saved people will repent and grieve over their sins, but the Bible doesn't teach that you have to go through a process of repentance"
Bullet points on Nate's doctrine to consider:
-Anyone truly saved must have the godly sorrow of repentance.
-No one needs to have the godly sorrow of repentance to be saved.
Hmm.
325
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Pastor Extorting For Money (Chad Wagner)
« on: February 25, 2022, 07:25:19 AM »
I thought about this thread this morning, and since it's been a couple of weeks, I decided to go back to Wagner's website to see if anything changed. Did he fix anything so people could more easily find where to read his book for free?
Nope. Why not? That's easy: He doesn't care.
You can go to the front page of his site and check it out for yourself. See how long it takes you to find where you can read it; you just have to get past all the "buy here" "buy on amazon" and "get discounts" buttons and links.
Like I said, it's not wrong to make a living on the work you do. That's normal, and something God intended for all mankind. The problem is when you claim to have a ministry, and you're not ministering as much as you're marketing.
Nope. Why not? That's easy: He doesn't care.
You can go to the front page of his site and check it out for yourself. See how long it takes you to find where you can read it; you just have to get past all the "buy here" "buy on amazon" and "get discounts" buttons and links.
Like I said, it's not wrong to make a living on the work you do. That's normal, and something God intended for all mankind. The problem is when you claim to have a ministry, and you're not ministering as much as you're marketing.
326
What's New @ CLE / (ARTICLE) Numerology is Occult Divination
« on: February 23, 2022, 03:13:21 PM »
Numerology is Occult Divination
Numerology, bible codes, and bible numbers websites and so-called "ministries" are corrupt, being filled to brim with false doctrines, and are literally teaching people religious superstitions and occult divination. These types of deceptive religious cults have existed for thousands of years, and people will flock to them because of sensationalism, but hopefully, Christians will read and understand this teaching to increase their discernment.
Numerology, bible codes, and bible numbers websites and so-called "ministries" are corrupt, being filled to brim with false doctrines, and are literally teaching people religious superstitions and occult divination. These types of deceptive religious cults have existed for thousands of years, and people will flock to them because of sensationalism, but hopefully, Christians will read and understand this teaching to increase their discernment.
327
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Unbiblical Cop-Outs: "Don't Judge Me!" p2
« on: February 21, 2022, 03:40:35 PM »328
Wild Emails @ CLE / Pushing False Information and Immediately Running Away
« on: February 16, 2022, 12:53:01 PM »MS. RACE FROM CANADA
Hello - thank you for sharing your insight into the matter of symbols. I had been feeling so uncomfortable about our friend crossing himself before meals, and my own child wearing a cross necklace that he bought with save up earnings along with many other queries about hidden in plain sight symbols and wondering if the 'Christian' ones were also a part of the enemy's plan to have us blaspheme the Lord.
You may have found (and perhaps even written - just found your site today) about these definitions already but I found it very helpful to explore the Greek for 'graven' and 'similitude' as it would seem to apply to carved, painted, etched, drawn etc. attempts to represent the Lord as well as symbols - and the aspect of similitude as it relates to creating allegories or stories (as used in scripting the Catholic sponsored series 'The Chosen' with the lead actor being a Knights Templar member) that have Jesus speaking words He never said in the scriptures. As His thoughts are higher than any of ours and beyond our ability to grasp this is such presumption and in such error.
As a student of the word as we are all called to be, I have never encountered this until this week. I believe the enemy has put in plain sight many things we haven't seen, but has also hidden many things we are to see. While the artwork is pagan (orthodox) in the oldest bible yet found (Ethiopian dead language of Ge'es) its containing of the book of Enoch along with other things I believe God has shown me this season has led me to consider what is canonized (and more importantly why it is canonized and by whom) and having rejected apocryphal writings without ever reading one for all of my Christian life, I started reading the book of Enoch yesterday. I do not profess to be any type of expert but have been praying for the leading of the Lord - all I can say is that it seems very possible He inspired its writing. It is the encouragement to believers of the immutable character of holiness of the Lord, that vengeance is His and that His beloved will be set apart for and with Him.
It so answers to the Christian inquiry of the fall of man and the sin in the world we see now. There is nothing to challenges any other scriptural truth, but confirms it and readily answers to the Enoch references in in other Bible books.
If you feel led to consider reading it if you haven't as yet this may be of help.
[NOTE: I had to cut this link in order to get it to fit on the page in this post. You'll have to copy/paste the whole thing if you want to see her link, but I didn't bother looking at it because it's just a link to the book of Enoch, which you can tell from the URL, and she obviously believes, some odd reason, that I would not have capability to find it if I wanted to do so.]
https://ia601001.us.archive.org/19/items/TheCompleteBookOfEnochStandardEnglishVersion
JayWinter/The%20Complete%20Book%20of%20Enoch%2C%20Standard%20English
%20Version%20-%20Jay%20Winter.pdf
May the Lord continue to show you the truths of His word.
I received a second email from her before I had read the first...
I sent you another email regarding symbols - sorry to send two.
Just a quick addendum. I am not keen to assume anything but the calling out of false prophets is biblical and people are mired in deceit. God has used, as He promises, the plans for harm to be for our good - in my own case I was deeply convicted by a Billy Graham crusade.
Sadly, it is confirmed that the Masonic 'rumour' is a true thing (of course it would be unlikely that with the Illuminati controls in government that Graham would have otherwise been invited into the confidence of so many presidents and have been close friends of two).
Author Albert Mackey includes Graham in his book 'The History of Free Masonary' as a famous member. He does not indicate the degree that Graham was at. His fame and connections and tremendous wealth would suggest that a high degree is very plausible, if not indeed likely.
http://www.noiseofthunderradio.com/articles/2011/7/3/billy-graham-and-freemasonry.html
Re: the author of this book - considered by Mason's as a true historian and fellow 'brother':
Freemason Albert Mackey | Masonic Dictionary | www ...
Search domain masonicdictionary.comwww.masonicdictionary.com › mackey.html
Albert Mackey. The American Masonic historian. He was born at Charleston, South Carolina, March 12, 1807. This scholarly Brother lived to the age of seventy-four years. He died at Fortress Monroe, Virginia, June 20, 1881, and was buried at Washington, District of Columbia, Sunday, June 26, with all the solemnity of the Masonic Rites wherein he ...
There is no need to reply to this or my previous email - they are simply for your own information. It is unlikely you would attribute information to anyone publically but to be clear I do not want attribution if you use this information.
And now my response to both letters...
Hello - thank you for sharing your insight into the matter of symbols. I had been feeling so uncomfortable about our friend crossing himself before meals, and my own child wearing a cross necklace that he bought with save up earnings along with many other queries about hidden in plain sight symbols and wondering if the 'Christian' ones were also a part of the enemy's plan to have us blaspheme the Lord.
I'm a little confused by that statement. How does making a cross symbol blaspheme God? What is your definition of "blaspheme"? I have always understood it to mean that one claims that the works of God are of the Devil, and with that understanding, I cannot make sense of how that is blaspheme. It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with setting a bad example for Christians and misrepresenting who God is.
You may have found (and perhaps even written - just found your site today) about these definitions already but I found it very helpful to explore the Greek for 'graven' and 'similitude' as it would seem to apply to carved, painted, etched, drawn etc. attempts to represent the Lord as well as symbols - and the aspect of similitude as it relates to creating allegories or stories (as used in scripting the Catholic sponsored series 'The Chosen' with the lead actor being a Knights Templar member) that have Jesus speaking words He never said in the scriptures. As His thoughts are higher than any of ours and beyond our ability to grasp this is such presumption and in such error.
Well... hmm... like you said, you just found the site, so you haven't had much time on it; I understand. There's a reason I don't do what you are suggesting, and I explain more here:
The 'Original Greek' Scam
Most people do not know Greek, and even fewer know Koine. Because of that, most people have to rely on Greek grammar dictionaries, and there are many problems there too:
The Dangers of Using Lexicons and Concordances
As a student of the word as we are all called to be, I have never encountered this until this week. I believe the enemy has put in plain sight many things we haven't seen, but has also hidden many things we are to see. While the artwork is pagan (orthodox) in the oldest bible yet found (Ethiopian dead language of Ge'es) its containing of the book of Enoch along with other things I believe God has shown me this season has led me to consider what is canonized (and more importantly why it is canonized and by whom) and having rejected apocryphal writings without ever reading one for all of my Christian life, I started reading the book of Enoch yesterday. I do not profess to be any type of expert but have been praying for the leading of the Lord - all I can say is that it seems very possible He inspired its writing. It is the encouragement to believers of the immutable character of holiness of the Lord, that vengeance is His and that His beloved will be set apart for and with Him. It so answers to the Christian inquiry of the fall of man and the sin in the world we see now. There is nothing to challenges any other scriptural truth, but confirms it and readily answers to the Enoch references in in other Bible books.
Okay.
Just a quick addendum. I am not keen to assume anything but the calling out of false prophets is biblical and people are mired in deceit. God has used, as He promises, the plans for harm to be for our good - in my own case I was deeply convicted by a Billy Graham crusade.
Sadly, it is confirmed that the Masonic 'rumour' is a true thing (of course it would be unlikely that with the Illuminati controls in government that Graham would have otherwise been invited into the confidence of so many presidents and have been close friends of two).
Author Albert Mackey includes Graham in his book 'The History of Free Masonary' as a famous member. He does not indicate the degree that Graham was at. His fame and connections and tremendous wealth would suggest that a high degree is very plausible, if not indeed likely.
If I am to accuse someone of something, I do not base it on "suggestions" or my opinions about how "likely" I think something might be. I have a responsibility to make sure what I am teaching is the truth based on evidence, not based on speculation. Neither Christ, nor His apostles said things based on speculation, and neither will I. I will stick with evidence. What you do is up to you, but I believe it is wildly irresponsible for authors to use speculation to create sensationalism (to turn a profit) instead of just going by the facts, because that is how people get deceived.
Re: the author of this book - considered by Mason's as a true historian and fellow 'brother': Albert Mackey. The American Masonic historian. He was born at Charleston, South Carolina, March 12, 1807. This scholarly Brother lived to the age of seventy-four years. He died at Fortress Monroe, Virginia, June 20, 1881, and was buried at Washington, District of Columbia, Sunday, June 26, with all the solemnity of the Masonic Rites wherein he
Okay.
[SIDE NOTE: I did not cut off the email she sent me; that is how the paragraph ended.]
There is no need to reply to this or my previous email - they are simply for your own information. It is unlikely you would attribute information to anyone publically but to be clear I do not want attribution if you use this information.
Sadly, when people write to me saying, "there is no need to reply," it typically, actually means, "I don't want to discuss the matter" because, most often, they want to convince others they know what they're talking about, when in fact, they are not as learned on it as they try to get other people to believe. If you don't want to discuss something, then frankly, there is no point in writing an email because, as you might have noticed, on my website, my references do not read "A lady named Ms. Race emailed me and told me it was true."
Also concerning your comment on this email being "for me," ... well ... I'm not so sure that is the case. It depends.
So, for example, let's suppose you read my expose on Billy Graham, which is here:
Wolves in Costume: Billy Graham
You did not indicate whether or not you did, so it leaves me puzzled as to why you were putting so much emphasis on writing me this random letter talking about it. (i.e. You did not provide any context.) If you had not read it, it would be a very strange thing to receive a letter like this out of nowhere, kind of like if I had just written you a letter on the techniques of harvesting cabbage out of nowhere--you would be rather confused. However, let's assume you did read it, and that's why you are writing to me.
You might have read where I pointed out that there is no solid evidence that Graham was a member of the Freemasons, even though he worked with many of them, as I pointed out here:
Freemasonry: A Luciferian Beacon
Of course, my statements contradict the opinions of other authors you have read. So instead of considering what evidence exists, you instead turn to the opinion of an author (i.e. Chris Pinto, who I do not trust because I have caught him making manipulative videos in the past) who already agrees with your preconceived idea about Graham, and you want me to believe what you believe and teach, so that I will teach what you teach, or in other words, you like my other teachings, but you don't like it that I disagree with you on key points that you are very fervent about, so you want me to conform with what you believe, that way you feel more comfortable when reading my materials.
Thus, if you are writing to me for that reason, you wrote this letter for YOU, not for me. Copying an excerpt from a Masonic Dictionary website is not the equivalent of research.
Author Albert Mackey includes Graham in his book 'The History of Free Masonary' as a famous member.
Furthermore, you claim that Albert Mackey, who died in 1881, wrote about Billy Graham's involvement in the Freemasons, even though Graham wasn't born until 1918.
If you could explain more details on that claim, I would love to hear more about it. I'll wait for your response on that.Thanks so much for taking the time to read some of the materials I've written. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
END OF DISCUSSION
I had little doubt that she would refuse to respond, and it was likely that she never even read my response to her. I have received countless letters like this, and they are typically from women. They want me to believe what they have chosen to believe, and even though they cannot provide evidence for it, and then they tuck tail and run the second I ask them to answer for what they say.
However, I still would like to know how Albert Mackey was able to describe Billy Graham's involvement in the Freemasons 40 years before Billy Graham was born. Still waiting for a response.
I always found it very interesting that when I have spoken blessings of God on others in the sense of His giving us wisdom and understanding of His Word, I always say "I pray God would continue to show ME the truth of His Word," or "I pray God would continue to show US the truth of His Word," but it is VERY common that I have people write to me, "May the Lord continue to show YOU the truths of His word," and I am just pointing that out because, so often, it's not about them learning more about God's Word, it's about me not agreeing with their opinions, and therefore, because we are in disagreement, they believe I need prayer so I would learn enough to agree with them.
Just food for thought.
329
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Unbiblical Cop-Outs: "Don't Judge Me!"
« on: February 14, 2022, 01:38:51 PM »331
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Pastor Extorting For Money (Chad Wagner)
« on: February 11, 2022, 11:02:08 AM »
So it basically comes back to Calvinists do not want to believe that God has given men the liberty to choose for themselves. Why that is such an egregious thought to them is the real question. If we get to bottom of that, then we also get to the bottom of why they teach such nonsense, and will know better how to answer them.
332
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Pastor Extorting For Money (Chad Wagner)
« on: February 11, 2022, 09:05:48 AM »
That was an interesting read. When I looked over the principles he was teaching (because I read more than just his "Giving to God" sermon) everything you said matched everything I read. If what you're saying is true, and I have every reason to believe it is, then in 2014, he was trying to bait me into Calvinism, and that's not going to fly.
Frankly, I don't believe I have ever heard of "irresistible grace," but without hearing anymore about it, just the name alone doesn't make any Scriptural or logical sense. If grace could not be resisted, then everyone would be saved because, according to 1st Peter 3, God wants all to come to repentance so they can received His grace. Furthermore, how can someone blaspheme the Holy Ghost (i.e. the only unforgivable sin, which is to proclaim in one's heart that which is of the Holy Ghost is of the Devil) if grace is irresistible? The Holy Ghost (who is God) is the very essence of grace, and so it would be impossible to do so, which would mean the verses warning us of the only unforgivable sin would be superfluous and vanity.
I think the reason he may have contacted me in the first place (because he did not tell me why he wrote me that in 2014), is because I wrote a teaching called "False Converts vs Eternal Security," and another one called, "Predestination vs Free Will," and those generally shoot down Calvinism.
I have never understood why people write to me and try to get me to agree with their particular denominational garbage. I have certainly been fooled by false doctrines in the past, but I have never bowed the knee to denominations, and though I am not saying that people who are in denominations are unsaved (because that is not a requirement for salvation), I certainly am cautious of those who are in them, and this is one more reason for that.
Thanks, Rowan, for that concise explanation, it was helpful to me.
Frankly, I don't believe I have ever heard of "irresistible grace," but without hearing anymore about it, just the name alone doesn't make any Scriptural or logical sense. If grace could not be resisted, then everyone would be saved because, according to 1st Peter 3, God wants all to come to repentance so they can received His grace. Furthermore, how can someone blaspheme the Holy Ghost (i.e. the only unforgivable sin, which is to proclaim in one's heart that which is of the Holy Ghost is of the Devil) if grace is irresistible? The Holy Ghost (who is God) is the very essence of grace, and so it would be impossible to do so, which would mean the verses warning us of the only unforgivable sin would be superfluous and vanity.
I think the reason he may have contacted me in the first place (because he did not tell me why he wrote me that in 2014), is because I wrote a teaching called "False Converts vs Eternal Security," and another one called, "Predestination vs Free Will," and those generally shoot down Calvinism.
I have never understood why people write to me and try to get me to agree with their particular denominational garbage. I have certainly been fooled by false doctrines in the past, but I have never bowed the knee to denominations, and though I am not saying that people who are in denominations are unsaved (because that is not a requirement for salvation), I certainly am cautious of those who are in them, and this is one more reason for that.
Thanks, Rowan, for that concise explanation, it was helpful to me.
333
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Pastor Extorting For Money (Chad Wagner)
« on: February 10, 2022, 01:02:51 PM »
Chad did respond today. I won't be replying to him, but you all can comment if you want.
Christopher,
I apologize for sending you the email about my book being available. I selected all of my email contacts and then went through and unselected a bunch of them which I didn't want to send it to. I missed your email address when I was unselecting. I did not intend to send you that email. You did not remember me, but I remembered you from our previous correspondence, so trust me when I say that I did not intend to send you that or any other email. I have deleted your email address from my contacts, so you should never get another unsolicited email from me again.
You could make the case that it was unwise of me to announce to my contacts, friends, and family of the release of my book. In retrospect, it probably was unwise. But to say that I did so for filthy lucre's sake is false and plain absurd, especially for a man who has himself published books as you have. This book is Volume 3 in a series which means there were two books before it. This means that I have a good idea how many copies it will sell. Based on previous book sales, if I spent the great number of hours which I did writing that book to make money, I truly am one of the greatest fools to ever live.
Your last email is full of false accusations which I do not have time nor desire to respond to. You would be wise to find out the facts about a man before you malign and falsely accuse him.
Pro 19:2 - Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth.
Pro 18:13 - He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
You did not understand the intent of the questions I asked you about giving to the Lord, but rather than asking for an explanation of the purpose for the questions, you assumed an evil motive on my part, and then went on to spew more false accusations and vitriol.
There is much more that could be said, but it would be a waste of my time. God will judge between us, and I will leave it at that.
I will comment on a couple things though, which I found hilarious:
You would be wise to find out the facts about a man before you malign and falsely accuse him.
Pro 18:13 - He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
I went to HIS teaching, and quoted directly from what HE taught. How is that not hearing the matter? It doesn't matter how much he wants to claim to agree with me, while he's coercing his congregation in the background. But according to Chad, that is "answering before hearing the matter." If I had never looked up what he teaches, and then told him all these things, I would be in for some serious rebuke from you all, and I would deserve it.
Worse still, is that he refuses to respond to it. Well, if he's not going to respond, how does he expect someone to hear the matter?
Hmm. That's a conundrum.
I didn't "have time" to respond to his inquiries last night, but I took two hours to do it anyway because that man needed sharp rebuke, and I did it not just for his sake, but also for the sake of those he takes advantage of. If he cared about me, and about you guys who listen to my teachings, wouldn't he do the same? No, he's thinking of himself, and not others.
And remember, even though his spam mail was "unwise," he did NOT confess what he was actually doing. If he did, I would have had far more respect for him. However, he just threw it up to a "accident." This was no accident; I know what he was doing... it wasn't hard to put the pieces together. However, the really hilarious part is that he said it was "unwise" to do it, while he promoted a book for people to "get wisdom."
Ha ha ha ha!!
I couldn't help but laugh out loud in my office when I read that!
You all can decide what you think is the truth of the matter.
Christopher,
I apologize for sending you the email about my book being available. I selected all of my email contacts and then went through and unselected a bunch of them which I didn't want to send it to. I missed your email address when I was unselecting. I did not intend to send you that email. You did not remember me, but I remembered you from our previous correspondence, so trust me when I say that I did not intend to send you that or any other email. I have deleted your email address from my contacts, so you should never get another unsolicited email from me again.
You could make the case that it was unwise of me to announce to my contacts, friends, and family of the release of my book. In retrospect, it probably was unwise. But to say that I did so for filthy lucre's sake is false and plain absurd, especially for a man who has himself published books as you have. This book is Volume 3 in a series which means there were two books before it. This means that I have a good idea how many copies it will sell. Based on previous book sales, if I spent the great number of hours which I did writing that book to make money, I truly am one of the greatest fools to ever live.
Your last email is full of false accusations which I do not have time nor desire to respond to. You would be wise to find out the facts about a man before you malign and falsely accuse him.
Pro 19:2 - Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth.
Pro 18:13 - He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
You did not understand the intent of the questions I asked you about giving to the Lord, but rather than asking for an explanation of the purpose for the questions, you assumed an evil motive on my part, and then went on to spew more false accusations and vitriol.
There is much more that could be said, but it would be a waste of my time. God will judge between us, and I will leave it at that.
I will comment on a couple things though, which I found hilarious:
You would be wise to find out the facts about a man before you malign and falsely accuse him.
Pro 18:13 - He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
I went to HIS teaching, and quoted directly from what HE taught. How is that not hearing the matter? It doesn't matter how much he wants to claim to agree with me, while he's coercing his congregation in the background. But according to Chad, that is "answering before hearing the matter." If I had never looked up what he teaches, and then told him all these things, I would be in for some serious rebuke from you all, and I would deserve it.
Worse still, is that he refuses to respond to it. Well, if he's not going to respond, how does he expect someone to hear the matter?
Hmm. That's a conundrum.
I didn't "have time" to respond to his inquiries last night, but I took two hours to do it anyway because that man needed sharp rebuke, and I did it not just for his sake, but also for the sake of those he takes advantage of. If he cared about me, and about you guys who listen to my teachings, wouldn't he do the same? No, he's thinking of himself, and not others.
And remember, even though his spam mail was "unwise," he did NOT confess what he was actually doing. If he did, I would have had far more respect for him. However, he just threw it up to a "accident." This was no accident; I know what he was doing... it wasn't hard to put the pieces together. However, the really hilarious part is that he said it was "unwise" to do it, while he promoted a book for people to "get wisdom."
Ha ha ha ha!!
I couldn't help but laugh out loud in my office when I read that!You all can decide what you think is the truth of the matter.
334
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Pastor Extorting For Money
« on: February 10, 2022, 11:12:46 AM »
One of the reasons I wanted to publish this is to demonstrate to Christians that just because someone runs an "Historic, Independent, Unincorporated, Non-501c3, KJV-only, Sovereign Grace Baptist Church" (as he says on his website), it does not automatically mean they are doing what's right. Adding adjectives to a description of a ministry only makes it more impressive to those who cannot discern with the doctrines of Scripture.
In 2014, he wrote a friendly letter from Minnesota (where he used to live) to tell me that, "it appears that you do not believe in sovereign grace (election, predestination)" -- which is not true. Those of you who have listened to me for a long time know that I have taught those things for many years.
He then said I needed to believe in "Sovereign Grace." The first problem I have with that is it is a church-ianity created phrase, meaning that it is not a phrase or term that is found in Scripture. That being said, all it means is that you believe God is all-powerful and omniscient, and that he has grace on people. Of course, that is correct, and that is pretty much Christianity 101; you have to believe these things to even believe Scripture is the truth.
But back then, he said that I was a preacher that was preaching the truth in his letter. He was very cordial with me, and told me that we even agreed on things like Christmas and Easter. And, on his website, he even says that repentance is godly sorrow, even though he makes the mistake of including "change of mind" to the definition of repentance, which then pushes conversion BEFORE salvation. If anyone does not understand that, please read or listen to the teaching on repentance:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
However, it is IRRELEVANT how many things we might agree on when he is preaching false doctrines to extort people for money. That alone cancels out everything else. Don't misunderstand, I never accused the man of being a false convert, but I did accuse him of being a greedy preacher. In fact, it more angers me when someone like him comes along with a seemingly outward gentleness, while he is scamming churchgoers to turn a profit through coercion.
coerce (v): to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition; to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.
So when I wrote him back that first response, in his mind and heart, he thought, "How dare he! I am doing the right thing." So, he was justifying himself in his mind, but most any person realizes that they cannot just come out and say what a great person they are, to glorify themselves, because most people know they will just makes them look bad, so they need evidence to back it up.
So the question is: What evidence do they go to? For me, I have no inner goodness whereby I need to justify myself, because Christ justifies me. The problem with Chad is that he had to use something to prove he was not extorting people, so he posed a question that was meant to both puff himself up and attack me, which was based on the assumptions of his false "storehouse tithing" doctrine.
He prides himself in "giving" a percentage of his money "to the ministry" -- which means he puts the money he received from the tithing plate, back into the tithing plate, only to receive it again. Now, some might argue that his church building costs money for equipment and upkeep, and that's true, but remember, he works there. So, he wants everyone to pay his living expenses, and pay to build and maintain his comfy office (which he invites them to once a week), all with threats that God will curse them if they don't.
Perhaps they do charity for the poor and needy. That's great. I did not condemn that, nor did I accuse any wrongdoing on that point because I do not know what they do, or what they don't do. However, by giving to the poor and needy, that is "giving to God," but that is NOT what Chad believes. He didn't want to say, but he believes that "giving to God" is "giving to the pastor" or in other words, "giving to Chad."
So because I do not "give to Chad," and Chad does not know if I am giving to any other Chads (i.e. pastors), therefore, I am not "giving to God."
So that being said, in short, his justification for teaching this doctrine is based in the delusion of his own preconceived "goodness," meaning that he believes how righteous he is as a "Christian" could be calculated by an accountant. He thinks that the amounts of money he has shifted around in his church building (i.e. going from tithe plate, to his pocket, back to tithe plate, and back to his pocket), putting things in the tithe plate where everyone can see and be thoroughly impressed, is his measurement of "goodness."
Of course, I didn't know any of that until I checked out his site the other day when I received his email, but I knew something was wrong by just the fact that he was sending out spam mail to increase his book sales. That was a red flag of itself, and the fact that he sent it to me was not near as irritating as the realization that I had never received anything else from him, and here was his advertisement for "Volume 3."
That's a key point. So, as far as I know, he has one larger book, and then he as published three smaller ones on a "get wisdom" series. Why didn't he send out emails for the other ones? Is it because he didn't realize he could use email? No. The problem is that his church building website is not getting much traffic, and he's not very popular online, so his book sales aren't doing so well, and that was the reason he sent this out, and not only that, but he sent it to every single person he's ever emailed because he's fishing for sales.
That alone should have been embarrassing to him. That is no different than him going door to door trying to sell a copy of his book to people. It's pathetic.
Folks, I don't make very much money on the books I have. In fact, most of the money I get from the books goes back into paying my editor (a wonderful Christian lady in our church who does a great job) to produce more books, and purchasing books to hand out to people for free. And you all will notice in many of the things I post, either in these emails or on social media, that I refer people back to the FREE written articles because I want them to get the information. Anyone I have met in person who wanted a copy of one of my books, I have NEVER charged them for it because I didn't get into this to sell books, I got into this because I wanted to make the information MORE accessible than just online because some people cannot get online, or prefer things written on paper.
What Chad did was ABSOLUTELY shameful, and the fact that he is not embarrassed (i.e. he got angry instead) is clear warning signs of leaven, and I want nothing to do with his ministry. If there is leaven (which there is), things will get worse over time, and the truth will be revealed in time.
I hope that helps increase your discernment on these matters. Feel free to make your own comments with your discernment if you want.
In 2014, he wrote a friendly letter from Minnesota (where he used to live) to tell me that, "it appears that you do not believe in sovereign grace (election, predestination)" -- which is not true. Those of you who have listened to me for a long time know that I have taught those things for many years.
He then said I needed to believe in "Sovereign Grace." The first problem I have with that is it is a church-ianity created phrase, meaning that it is not a phrase or term that is found in Scripture. That being said, all it means is that you believe God is all-powerful and omniscient, and that he has grace on people. Of course, that is correct, and that is pretty much Christianity 101; you have to believe these things to even believe Scripture is the truth.
But back then, he said that I was a preacher that was preaching the truth in his letter. He was very cordial with me, and told me that we even agreed on things like Christmas and Easter. And, on his website, he even says that repentance is godly sorrow, even though he makes the mistake of including "change of mind" to the definition of repentance, which then pushes conversion BEFORE salvation. If anyone does not understand that, please read or listen to the teaching on repentance:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
However, it is IRRELEVANT how many things we might agree on when he is preaching false doctrines to extort people for money. That alone cancels out everything else. Don't misunderstand, I never accused the man of being a false convert, but I did accuse him of being a greedy preacher. In fact, it more angers me when someone like him comes along with a seemingly outward gentleness, while he is scamming churchgoers to turn a profit through coercion.
coerce (v): to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition; to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.
So when I wrote him back that first response, in his mind and heart, he thought, "How dare he! I am doing the right thing." So, he was justifying himself in his mind, but most any person realizes that they cannot just come out and say what a great person they are, to glorify themselves, because most people know they will just makes them look bad, so they need evidence to back it up.
So the question is: What evidence do they go to? For me, I have no inner goodness whereby I need to justify myself, because Christ justifies me. The problem with Chad is that he had to use something to prove he was not extorting people, so he posed a question that was meant to both puff himself up and attack me, which was based on the assumptions of his false "storehouse tithing" doctrine.
He prides himself in "giving" a percentage of his money "to the ministry" -- which means he puts the money he received from the tithing plate, back into the tithing plate, only to receive it again. Now, some might argue that his church building costs money for equipment and upkeep, and that's true, but remember, he works there. So, he wants everyone to pay his living expenses, and pay to build and maintain his comfy office (which he invites them to once a week), all with threats that God will curse them if they don't.
Perhaps they do charity for the poor and needy. That's great. I did not condemn that, nor did I accuse any wrongdoing on that point because I do not know what they do, or what they don't do. However, by giving to the poor and needy, that is "giving to God," but that is NOT what Chad believes. He didn't want to say, but he believes that "giving to God" is "giving to the pastor" or in other words, "giving to Chad."
So because I do not "give to Chad," and Chad does not know if I am giving to any other Chads (i.e. pastors), therefore, I am not "giving to God."
So that being said, in short, his justification for teaching this doctrine is based in the delusion of his own preconceived "goodness," meaning that he believes how righteous he is as a "Christian" could be calculated by an accountant. He thinks that the amounts of money he has shifted around in his church building (i.e. going from tithe plate, to his pocket, back to tithe plate, and back to his pocket), putting things in the tithe plate where everyone can see and be thoroughly impressed, is his measurement of "goodness."
Of course, I didn't know any of that until I checked out his site the other day when I received his email, but I knew something was wrong by just the fact that he was sending out spam mail to increase his book sales. That was a red flag of itself, and the fact that he sent it to me was not near as irritating as the realization that I had never received anything else from him, and here was his advertisement for "Volume 3."
That's a key point. So, as far as I know, he has one larger book, and then he as published three smaller ones on a "get wisdom" series. Why didn't he send out emails for the other ones? Is it because he didn't realize he could use email? No. The problem is that his church building website is not getting much traffic, and he's not very popular online, so his book sales aren't doing so well, and that was the reason he sent this out, and not only that, but he sent it to every single person he's ever emailed because he's fishing for sales.
That alone should have been embarrassing to him. That is no different than him going door to door trying to sell a copy of his book to people. It's pathetic.
Folks, I don't make very much money on the books I have. In fact, most of the money I get from the books goes back into paying my editor (a wonderful Christian lady in our church who does a great job) to produce more books, and purchasing books to hand out to people for free. And you all will notice in many of the things I post, either in these emails or on social media, that I refer people back to the FREE written articles because I want them to get the information. Anyone I have met in person who wanted a copy of one of my books, I have NEVER charged them for it because I didn't get into this to sell books, I got into this because I wanted to make the information MORE accessible than just online because some people cannot get online, or prefer things written on paper.
What Chad did was ABSOLUTELY shameful, and the fact that he is not embarrassed (i.e. he got angry instead) is clear warning signs of leaven, and I want nothing to do with his ministry. If there is leaven (which there is), things will get worse over time, and the truth will be revealed in time.
I hope that helps increase your discernment on these matters. Feel free to make your own comments with your discernment if you want.
335
Wild Emails @ CLE / Pastor Extorting For Money (Chad Wagner)
« on: February 10, 2022, 10:31:31 AM »
So I got a mass spam email the other day from a pastor who was trying to ramp up his book sales. Now, as you are going to see, I made the mistake of accusing him of only charging for his book. I could not find a place to check it out on his site. After the second letter, I tried it again, and it turns out that you could read it for free on his site, but he made it pretty hard to find. (I think part of it is that his website seems a bit unorganized and confusing to navigate.) However, he teaches people the false doctrine of "storehouse tithing," which means he is extorting churchgoers for money. Here is the exchange; I thought you all might like to see this, and I'll make some comments afterwards on it so you can get some more details.
CHAD WAGNER, PASTOR OF EXCELSIOR SPRINGS CHURCH IN MISSOURI
Dear friends and family,
After nearly five years I have finally published Volume 3 of my commentary series on the book of Proverbs called, "Get Wisdom, Get Understanding." This book is my commentary on Proverbs chapter 3.
It is available on Amazon in hardback, paperback, and Kindle.
You can learn more about it and read reviews here if you're interested: Get Wisdom, Get Understanding, Vol. 3.
Please feel free to share it with others who you think would appreciate it.
I hope it's a blessing to you.
(((SEE ATTACHMENT 1)))
Chad Wagner
Pastor, Excelsior Springs Church
Excelsior Springs, MO
www.PastorWagner.com
www.KJVChurch.com
Hello Chad.
I had to look up your name in my archives because I have no idea how you got my email address. My archives indicate you last emailed me in 2014, 8 years ago. As far as I know, I have not received anything from you since. I also did not sign up for any newsletters from you. This means that you simply sent out a mass email for people to buy your book, and this is likely something new you are trying because you are sending notifications of "Vol.3," which means your book sales probably aren't doing as well as you had hoped.
My email address is for ministry purposes, not so you can send out ads to increase your books sales, and frankly, I find it personally insulting that you would even attempt that. I offer all my books free-to-read on my website (people are welcome to print them out and share them if they want), and I have my own commentaries on various books of the Bible which are all FREE because:
Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
-Proverbs 23:23
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
-Mat 10:8
So just to clarify, you need to take me off your mailing list or I will block your email address (as I stated on my website's contact page), and also, you should be ashamed of yourself, but I know you will not be, especially since, after a brief look at your website, I saw a number of corrupt doctrines you teach (like on tithe, just for one example, which didn't surprise me), which means you are leavened, and therefore, I am quite certain you will reject any shame for what you're doing.
Your false doctrine, which presumably comes from your corrupt books:
https://kjvchurch.com/proverbs-3-9/
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
Biblical answers for born again Christians to counter preachers of greed, like yourself:
Tithe is Not a Christian Requirement
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
-Titus 1:10-13
That being said, I hope that the Lord God will show you and your family as much mercy as He has shown me and mine, and I hope you have a great day.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale. All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord? Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
Then I apologize for falsely accusing you of not making your materials available for free. I didn't see a place on your site where one could read that, and perhaps I did not search deep enough on your site. However, you are trying to advertise to my ministry's email, which I do not appreciate (and you had no remorse for, nor did you respond to), and it's clear that you're angry that I caught you in what you were doing (i.e. trying boost your book sales) because I have a question for you: Did you include a link in your email to read your book for free on your website? Of course, you and I both know you didn't, and we both know WHY you did not include those details. It has nothing to do with helping people "get wisdom," and everything to do with increasing your book sales, which was the purpose of your spam mail. So, take me off your mailing list, or I will block your email address. It's that simple.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale.
You were not accused of leaven for selling a book. You need to learn to slow down and READ what people are writing. Yes, anyone can order my books on Amazon for those who want a physical copy, but if you would read carefully on my store page, there is a link to read the book right underneath the title. Since you did not bother to read what was on the store page on my site, I will provide a screen shot for you:
(((SEE ATTACHMENT #2)))
As a side note, it was not easy to find the links to read your books on your site. You have to swim through all the "buy here" and "get discounts" buttons and links to find the place where you can go read them. That's why I didn't find it the first time because your "Vol.3" book links take users to the Amazon store, and that's all I saw the first time, that's all most people will see when they look at it, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
Of course I accept donations to this ministry. Have you lost your mind? No one accused you of leaven for accepting donations, but you were accused of being leavened for telling people they are robbing God if they don't pay you money. Now, THAT is a hypocrite. Remember, you are going to be held accountable for everything you say here, and on your site:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36
You have a document on your website called "Giving to God." These appear to be your notes of your preaching. Here is what you wrote in that document:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
"Don't simply give the pastor your spare change if you happen to have any that day."
"When we fail to give to God, we are robbing Him"
"When people rob God, they are cursed for it"
https://kjvchurch.com/files/Giving%20to%20God_0.doc
So you threaten born again saints, telling them that God is going to curse them (based on the illusion of a commandment that does not exist in the New Testament for the church) if they do not give YOU money, which is a form of coercion, and then turn around, and accuse me of being a hypocrite for accepting donations freely by the charity from those who (by their own liberty) choose to give because they appreciate the work I'm doing. Unbelievable. Has lifting yourself up as a so-called "pastor" blinded your eyes to that degree?
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord?
This is fascinating, and I'm glad you wrote me this letter because now I know to stay FAR away from you and your corrupt doctrine. I don't have to use this verse very often, but it's appropriate here:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
-Matthew 7:5
I don't believe you have much fear of God, and I'll show you why. Here is the statement you made from the "Giving to God" document:
"That percentage should be laid back in store (saved) and then we should give to the Lord (to people in need and to the ministry) out of that fund."
The place where we agree would be to give to people in need. For example, an evangelist who is preaching the Gospel that needs to provide for his family while he works--that is a person in need. (Despite what you might want to believe.) The poor, needy, orphans, and widows are likewise people in need. Thus, giving to any of them, is the same as giving to God, as Jesus Christ testifies in Matthew 25.
However, where we disagree is where you included "to the ministry," by which, you actually mean giving to YOU because YOU said:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
Myself and my ministry and one are the same because I'm working my ministry, and I do this by myself. However, that's not how you defined these things. This is one of the more shady, despicable things I have seen a self-proclaimed "pastor" attempt to do. Your question was designed to puff yourself up, just like the Pharisee standing at the front of the temple:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
-Luke 18:9-12
Look, there is no problem with you making a living from your work. You should. However, you hate the fact that you are being rebuked on your false doctrines because you hate correction:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Proverbs 15:10
There is no requirement in the New Testament to give a specific percentage, and you probably know that, but you hide the truth in unrighteousness because of your greed:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
-Romans 1:18
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
It is amazing that you have defined "giving to the Lord" as "giving to Chad," without saying that directly, but I caught it. You can tell by the way you define your title of rank apart from those who are in need, and also that your "pastor income" is separate from the "church fund," which is laughable because you and I both know that's not true:
"Give to godly purposes from that account or shoebox (your pastor, church fund, the poor, etc.)."
So essentially, according to Chad, the only way anyone can fully and completely "give to God" is to pay YOU. (i.e. Not "give" in charity, because there is no gift if you are required to pay.) You even state in your "Giving to God" teaching that a pastor must also tithe, but where does his tithe money go? Right back into his own pocket. (i.e. It's a facade.) Thus, not only are your questions invasive (i.e. I wouldn't ask you what you give, or to who you give, because it's none of my business), but you wrote that to try and make yourself look good on the outside of the cup, in which you attempt to justify your corrupt doctrine with money, or in other words, you believe in your heart that your inner "goodness" is tied to what percentage of the income you give to someone (which comes from the money you extort from unsuspecting churchgoers), while I teach that no Christian has any obligation to give me anything, that they are free to do what they will in charity with what they have be given by the Lord Jesus Christ, and that I know that my inner goodness doesn't exist--it is only imputed to me by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
-Matthew 23:25
Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
Here's my justification. All my charity and goodness hangs on this:
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
-Romans 4:22-25
If you want a different answer according to your corrupt doctrines on your "storehouse tithing" coercion/extortion, then I will give you that justification when you send me God's address. I'll wait for your response on that.
I know you're used to using these sleight-of-hand techniques on undiscerning churchgoers, but you are talking with someone who understands the Scripture, can expose your false doctrine, and knows your scam. You will not get away with that garbage when you stand before God one day, and I have no problem calling out your hypocrisy, contradictions, and corruptions because I hate seeing leavened preachers like you take advantage of poor, hard-working people, while you peddle the holy name of Christ in your shame.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
-Mark 7:13
I still hope you and your family have a pleasant evening, and despite your deceptions, I still pray the Lord Jesus Christ will continue to provide mercies in your household during the upcoming rough months in America.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1 Peter 3:9
END OF DISCUSSION
He probably will not even read this, let alone respond to it, but if he does, I might include it in a comment below.
CHAD WAGNER, PASTOR OF EXCELSIOR SPRINGS CHURCH IN MISSOURI
Dear friends and family,
After nearly five years I have finally published Volume 3 of my commentary series on the book of Proverbs called, "Get Wisdom, Get Understanding." This book is my commentary on Proverbs chapter 3.
It is available on Amazon in hardback, paperback, and Kindle.
You can learn more about it and read reviews here if you're interested: Get Wisdom, Get Understanding, Vol. 3.
Please feel free to share it with others who you think would appreciate it.
I hope it's a blessing to you.
(((SEE ATTACHMENT 1)))
Chad Wagner
Pastor, Excelsior Springs Church
Excelsior Springs, MO
www.PastorWagner.com
www.KJVChurch.com
Hello Chad.
I had to look up your name in my archives because I have no idea how you got my email address. My archives indicate you last emailed me in 2014, 8 years ago. As far as I know, I have not received anything from you since. I also did not sign up for any newsletters from you. This means that you simply sent out a mass email for people to buy your book, and this is likely something new you are trying because you are sending notifications of "Vol.3," which means your book sales probably aren't doing as well as you had hoped.
My email address is for ministry purposes, not so you can send out ads to increase your books sales, and frankly, I find it personally insulting that you would even attempt that. I offer all my books free-to-read on my website (people are welcome to print them out and share them if they want), and I have my own commentaries on various books of the Bible which are all FREE because:
Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
-Proverbs 23:23
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
-Mat 10:8
So just to clarify, you need to take me off your mailing list or I will block your email address (as I stated on my website's contact page), and also, you should be ashamed of yourself, but I know you will not be, especially since, after a brief look at your website, I saw a number of corrupt doctrines you teach (like on tithe, just for one example, which didn't surprise me), which means you are leavened, and therefore, I am quite certain you will reject any shame for what you're doing.
Your false doctrine, which presumably comes from your corrupt books:
https://kjvchurch.com/proverbs-3-9/
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
Biblical answers for born again Christians to counter preachers of greed, like yourself:
Tithe is Not a Christian Requirement
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
-Titus 1:10-13
That being said, I hope that the Lord God will show you and your family as much mercy as He has shown me and mine, and I hope you have a great day.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale. All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord? Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
Then I apologize for falsely accusing you of not making your materials available for free. I didn't see a place on your site where one could read that, and perhaps I did not search deep enough on your site. However, you are trying to advertise to my ministry's email, which I do not appreciate (and you had no remorse for, nor did you respond to), and it's clear that you're angry that I caught you in what you were doing (i.e. trying boost your book sales) because I have a question for you: Did you include a link in your email to read your book for free on your website? Of course, you and I both know you didn't, and we both know WHY you did not include those details. It has nothing to do with helping people "get wisdom," and everything to do with increasing your book sales, which was the purpose of your spam mail. So, take me off your mailing list, or I will block your email address. It's that simple.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale.
You were not accused of leaven for selling a book. You need to learn to slow down and READ what people are writing. Yes, anyone can order my books on Amazon for those who want a physical copy, but if you would read carefully on my store page, there is a link to read the book right underneath the title. Since you did not bother to read what was on the store page on my site, I will provide a screen shot for you:
(((SEE ATTACHMENT #2)))
As a side note, it was not easy to find the links to read your books on your site. You have to swim through all the "buy here" and "get discounts" buttons and links to find the place where you can go read them. That's why I didn't find it the first time because your "Vol.3" book links take users to the Amazon store, and that's all I saw the first time, that's all most people will see when they look at it, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
Of course I accept donations to this ministry. Have you lost your mind? No one accused you of leaven for accepting donations, but you were accused of being leavened for telling people they are robbing God if they don't pay you money. Now, THAT is a hypocrite. Remember, you are going to be held accountable for everything you say here, and on your site:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36
You have a document on your website called "Giving to God." These appear to be your notes of your preaching. Here is what you wrote in that document:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
"Don't simply give the pastor your spare change if you happen to have any that day."
"When we fail to give to God, we are robbing Him"
"When people rob God, they are cursed for it"
https://kjvchurch.com/files/Giving%20to%20God_0.doc
So you threaten born again saints, telling them that God is going to curse them (based on the illusion of a commandment that does not exist in the New Testament for the church) if they do not give YOU money, which is a form of coercion, and then turn around, and accuse me of being a hypocrite for accepting donations freely by the charity from those who (by their own liberty) choose to give because they appreciate the work I'm doing. Unbelievable. Has lifting yourself up as a so-called "pastor" blinded your eyes to that degree?
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord?
This is fascinating, and I'm glad you wrote me this letter because now I know to stay FAR away from you and your corrupt doctrine. I don't have to use this verse very often, but it's appropriate here:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
-Matthew 7:5
I don't believe you have much fear of God, and I'll show you why. Here is the statement you made from the "Giving to God" document:
"That percentage should be laid back in store (saved) and then we should give to the Lord (to people in need and to the ministry) out of that fund."
The place where we agree would be to give to people in need. For example, an evangelist who is preaching the Gospel that needs to provide for his family while he works--that is a person in need. (Despite what you might want to believe.) The poor, needy, orphans, and widows are likewise people in need. Thus, giving to any of them, is the same as giving to God, as Jesus Christ testifies in Matthew 25.
However, where we disagree is where you included "to the ministry," by which, you actually mean giving to YOU because YOU said:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
Myself and my ministry and one are the same because I'm working my ministry, and I do this by myself. However, that's not how you defined these things. This is one of the more shady, despicable things I have seen a self-proclaimed "pastor" attempt to do. Your question was designed to puff yourself up, just like the Pharisee standing at the front of the temple:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
-Luke 18:9-12
Look, there is no problem with you making a living from your work. You should. However, you hate the fact that you are being rebuked on your false doctrines because you hate correction:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Proverbs 15:10
There is no requirement in the New Testament to give a specific percentage, and you probably know that, but you hide the truth in unrighteousness because of your greed:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
-Romans 1:18
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
It is amazing that you have defined "giving to the Lord" as "giving to Chad," without saying that directly, but I caught it. You can tell by the way you define your title of rank apart from those who are in need, and also that your "pastor income" is separate from the "church fund," which is laughable because you and I both know that's not true:
"Give to godly purposes from that account or shoebox (your pastor, church fund, the poor, etc.)."
So essentially, according to Chad, the only way anyone can fully and completely "give to God" is to pay YOU. (i.e. Not "give" in charity, because there is no gift if you are required to pay.) You even state in your "Giving to God" teaching that a pastor must also tithe, but where does his tithe money go? Right back into his own pocket. (i.e. It's a facade.) Thus, not only are your questions invasive (i.e. I wouldn't ask you what you give, or to who you give, because it's none of my business), but you wrote that to try and make yourself look good on the outside of the cup, in which you attempt to justify your corrupt doctrine with money, or in other words, you believe in your heart that your inner "goodness" is tied to what percentage of the income you give to someone (which comes from the money you extort from unsuspecting churchgoers), while I teach that no Christian has any obligation to give me anything, that they are free to do what they will in charity with what they have be given by the Lord Jesus Christ, and that I know that my inner goodness doesn't exist--it is only imputed to me by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
-Matthew 23:25
Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
Here's my justification. All my charity and goodness hangs on this:
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
-Romans 4:22-25
If you want a different answer according to your corrupt doctrines on your "storehouse tithing" coercion/extortion, then I will give you that justification when you send me God's address. I'll wait for your response on that.
I know you're used to using these sleight-of-hand techniques on undiscerning churchgoers, but you are talking with someone who understands the Scripture, can expose your false doctrine, and knows your scam. You will not get away with that garbage when you stand before God one day, and I have no problem calling out your hypocrisy, contradictions, and corruptions because I hate seeing leavened preachers like you take advantage of poor, hard-working people, while you peddle the holy name of Christ in your shame.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
-Mark 7:13
I still hope you and your family have a pleasant evening, and despite your deceptions, I still pray the Lord Jesus Christ will continue to provide mercies in your household during the upcoming rough months in America.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1 Peter 3:9
END OF DISCUSSION
He probably will not even read this, let alone respond to it, but if he does, I might include it in a comment below.
336
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p33
« on: February 07, 2022, 03:51:26 PM »337
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p32
« on: January 31, 2022, 01:34:35 PM »338
What's New @ CLE / (ARTICLE) Hell Is Real And Many People Are Going There
« on: January 28, 2022, 02:03:28 PM »
I have rewritten this again, and added in a lot more information. This time around, I included information on "hell visions" since I have had enough of people sending me emails and books on the subject. The "hell vision" false prophets are simply trying to make money and get viewers through sensationalism, and everyone of them I have investigated teaches a wide variety of heresies on top of it.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/hell.php
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/hell.php
339
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p31
« on: January 24, 2022, 12:37:27 PM »340
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Trying to Rip Up the Bible (Telegram)
« on: January 21, 2022, 10:26:22 AM »
Those are all very good points, and that's exactly why I was as firm with him as I was. He didn't even realize that I didn't call him any names. I simply explained to him that if he continued in his current beliefs, and would not repent of them, it would make him a hypocrite. Because he knew that he would not judge his own way of thinking (meaning that he was sold on stripping out sections of the Bible to justify himself and the beliefs he was taught from a corrupt preacher, who he seemed to be defending in all this without naming who it was), he knew that the result of my words would be that I viewed him as a hypocrite, and after he kept talking, that is true, I did view him as a hypocrite.
In such a corrupt view of Scripture, in which he does not apply to himself anything that was "said to Israel," it is no wonder that he does not understand the doctrine of repentance, and not just does he not understand it, but he seemed to HATE the idea and mock it. That's why he can't understand a verse like this:
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18
If he were on a platform like this forum, I probably would have taken more time with him, but on Telegram, it is very difficult to have extra lengthy philosophical discussions about doctrine because it is limited to a certain amount of characters, it is not well organization for one-on-one discussion, and at any point, a user can "block" another person and delete ALL the messages they have written on both sides of the conversation. At least on this forum, the messages are all saved unless an admin deletes them. I have already had that happen a number of times from some cowards, and that's one of the reasons I haven't posted a bunch of them here.
And by the way, did you notice at the end how he quickly switched to assumptions to have an argument? He started saying things like, "you seem to be implying," and "I think you are telling people," because that's the only place he had left to go to justify himself.
In such a corrupt view of Scripture, in which he does not apply to himself anything that was "said to Israel," it is no wonder that he does not understand the doctrine of repentance, and not just does he not understand it, but he seemed to HATE the idea and mock it. That's why he can't understand a verse like this:
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18
If he were on a platform like this forum, I probably would have taken more time with him, but on Telegram, it is very difficult to have extra lengthy philosophical discussions about doctrine because it is limited to a certain amount of characters, it is not well organization for one-on-one discussion, and at any point, a user can "block" another person and delete ALL the messages they have written on both sides of the conversation. At least on this forum, the messages are all saved unless an admin deletes them. I have already had that happen a number of times from some cowards, and that's one of the reasons I haven't posted a bunch of them here.
And by the way, did you notice at the end how he quickly switched to assumptions to have an argument? He started saying things like, "you seem to be implying," and "I think you are telling people," because that's the only place he had left to go to justify himself.