Author Topic: Revelation 9:2-10  (Read 4202 times)

Jeanne

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Revelation 9:2-10
« on: July 20, 2019, 05:27:48 AM »
Chris, you wrote at the end of your book on Psychology:

Quote
I want to share with readers some of the events of God's wrath coming to this world because I know that this is not taught much in church buildings. In context, the Lord Jesus Christ has come back and taken His elect with Him, but everyone else who has ever lived will remain on the earth, and after a span of 30 minutes, the most horrible things you could imagine will pour down onto the children of disobedience.

There will be burning and destruction, with entire continents being split apart:

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
-Revelation 9:2-10

Could you please explain why, if the elect have already been taken by Christ at his return, it would be necessary to instruct the locusts to hurt 'only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads'?

I'm assuming these are the 144,000 which were sealed in Revelation 7, so please correct me if I'm wrong:

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

If these are the servants of God, why would they be left behind after everyone else was taken?

This chapter goes on to describe others who were standing before the throne:

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


I highlighted the part where it says these people came out of 'great tribulation' but what great tribulation is being referred to? It just says 'great tribulation' not 'The Great Tribulation.' For all I know, these could be all the saints who have ever been martyred, from Stephen all the way down to those yet to lose their lives for the cause of Christ. I would say all of these endured 'great tribulation,' but again, I don't know if this is what this passage is referring to or not.

I have read Revelation a LOT, but I still get confused over the timeline of what happens when, especially in regards to events immediately preceding and following the return of Jesus Christ to earth.

anvilhauler

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 08:20:17 AM »
I have read Revelation a LOT, but I still get confused over the timeline of what happens when, especially in regards to events immediately preceding and following the return of Jesus Christ to earth.

The time line will also correspond with the feasts of the Torah.  The New Testament writers reiterated that the feasts were the shadows of things to come.

Colossians 2 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Hebrews 10 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


The feasts of Passover and Pentecost have already been fulfilled but the remainder of the feasts are still to come.

1 Corinthians 15 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


The day of trumpets?

The Day Of Trumpets
Leviticus 23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.


Ten Days Later

The Day of Atonement
Leviticus 23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
26 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. 28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.


So it might seem that the final fulfillment of the Torah at the end of the seven bowls of God's wrath is ten days after those who sleep and those who are still alive are taken up to be with Christ on the day of trumpets. (i.e. the seven bowls are poured out on the Earth for a period of ten days at the end of which Christ returns with His martyred saints to rule the world for a thousand years.


There is also the indication that the scapegoat might be an indication of Satan in the future

Leviticus 16 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. 10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.


The goat is taken away from the presence of being around people and is cast in to the wilderness but in a matter of time the goat will no doubt again come in contact with people.  Satan is taken away from being around people for a thousand years but then again comes in to the presence of people.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 08:25:51 AM by anvilhauler »
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

creationliberty

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 11:11:05 AM »
I don't have an answer for you yet. Maybe I was wrong about being wrong. For now, I'm focusing on the doctrine in the New Testament, and I'll get to Revelation when I get there. I may have to go back and rewrite a lot of things; I don't know.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

anvilhauler

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 07:19:07 PM »
I don't have an answer for you yet. Maybe I was wrong about being wrong. For now, I'm focusing on the doctrine in the New Testament, and I'll get to Revelation when I get there. I may have to go back and rewrite a lot of things; I don't know.

The doctrine in the New Testament is much more pertinent for today as the sure foundation that everyone is going to need to build on to enable them to stand and do the right things when the events of Revelation come along.  I take an interest only because it is one of the books of the Bible and so deserves to be read and studied as much as the others and I take an interest in how it fits in from the Torah right up and through the New Testament with being alluded to quite a few times in the gospels and various epistles.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Jeanne

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 09:50:32 PM »
The only reason I brought this up is because you wrote something in your book as fact that may or may not be true. I do not know (have to remember not to use apostrophes here as I am on my phone due to a power outage here) whether what you wrote is accurate or not and I am less interested in what IS the correct interpretation of this passage than I am in making sure that you do not make statements that could be construed as false. I do not believe we have enough information on the matter to make a definitive determination one way or the other.

Richard

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2019, 05:09:50 AM »
Revelation is written like the Prophectic books of the Old Testament and because of the Old Testament Last Days prophecies there are lots of ways Revelation ties into the informationn given in the Old Testament.

In particular, if you are trying to understand what must happen after the conclusion of the 7 seals you really can`t do it with Revelation alone. You need the Old Testament prophecies as well.

Richard

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 06:06:32 AM »
@ Jeanne regarding Revelation questions. Although the sealing of the 144,000 is a sixth seal event it occurs during the pause at the end of that seals time after the first resurrection has already happened. The 144,000 will be representing Christ during the day of the Lord after the removal of the Body of Christ by the first resurrection. The locusts are a 7th seal event and the 144,000 are on the earth.

If we can do it without anyone getting mad at me I would be game to answer questions about the book of Revelation.

creationliberty

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2019, 09:09:49 AM »
If we can do it without anyone getting mad at me I would be game to answer questions about the book of Revelation.
The problem is not anyone "getting mad" at answering questions about Revelation. The problem is that when a new person shows up on this forum, before we've had a chance to find out what their true beliefs and doctrine are (especially with someone like yourself who made a strangely suspicious introduction post as vague as yours without any testimony of repentance and remission in Christ), and one of the first things that person wants to discuss is Revelation, it's not only dangerous, it ends poorly every time.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Richard

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Re: Revelation 9:2-10
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2019, 09:37:15 AM »
If we can do it without anyone getting mad at me I would be game to answer questions about the book of Revelation.
The problem is not anyone "getting mad" at answering questions about Revelation. The problem is that when a new person shows up on this forum, before we've had a chance to find out what their true beliefs and doctrine are (especially with someone like yourself who made a strangely suspicious introduction post as vague as yours without any testimony of repentance and remission in Christ), and one of the first things that person wants to discuss is Revelation, it's not only dangerous, it ends poorly every time.

I made the offer because her questions appeared to be unanswered and Bible prophecy has been my hobby since I was 17.

I`m not sure what you mean by "a strangely suspicious introduction post" or why it`s necessary for you to call my introduction "vague"but I don`t see that as a good way to introduce yourself to a brother.

The introduction was a little short because I wanted to get it done and read what is on your forum. To answer that one I`m a fundamentalist and I believe in repentance, I wasn`t out to be vague. Also of note, I made posts on several of your topics not just this question on Revelation.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 09:48:07 AM by Richard »