Author Topic: Introducing myself to CLE ministry  (Read 3762 times)

manawatu

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Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« on: February 25, 2020, 05:16:09 PM »
Hi Chris i live in the of city ,Palmerston North NZ, One night in bed i called out to Jesus to help me and He immediately came ,filling me with Himself and i became a born again christian. It was a night of power and total love and i was so much under His power that i could merely open and close my eyes, when closed i saw the glory of the Lord above me,a pure white light.      I ran my own appliance repair business for 20 years but in 2012 became ill after taking prescription medicine, for 2 years battled on without any help from the medical system, eventually realising they were not going to help me so i pressed into the Lord and began to walk in faith ,not perfectly as He constantly tells me to believe and not to have any unbelief.For two years i was to ill to work in fact one night im certain only 2hrs of praise saved my life ,but as i walk in faith i now can work although not full time as yet. although im, active walking 3 miles daily and biking.         As far as churches go here in NZ its a bit of a spiritual wasteland so ive only intermittently gone to church since i collapsed in town that horrible day when my life changed so much.but for the last 6 months have attended a seeker sensitive,seeker friendly church just to have some fellowship with some of the few genuine believers there and i know the pastor who actually is born again but i believe hes ambitious also for worldly trappings,ie numbers ,money,fame, his sermons are broadcast on our local NZ christian tv channel.                         My interest in this channel when i came across the evaluation of J Meyers ministry as i have several friends with a great liking for her teaching which puzzled me as she seemed more like a used car salesman to me. At last i recieved confirmation of my doubts re her so thankyou. And the deeper i get into this channel the more i realise how people are being duped into following people without any personal knowledge of Christ,and thats a huge issue, as the blind are leading the blind. Thanks for your ministry Chris ,blessings to you and the members in Christ,

creationliberty

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 06:15:41 PM »
I just want to make it clear that there is a contact page on the website if you want to get in contact with me directly, but this is a forum community for Christians to talk with one another. I am glad you have found benefit in my teachings, but I am not the only person here, even though you seem to be addressing me specifically.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

strangersmind

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 06:38:15 PM »
What do you mean by seeker sensitive,seeker friendly church?

manawatu

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 07:36:17 PM »
Loud music not much of the Word, people not walking in love,folks not getting convicted of their sin and repenting.

manawatu

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 07:50:31 PM »
Ok Chris , im new here on this site so if im not doing everything by the book its because im just getting familiar with the setup

creationliberty

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 08:45:33 PM »
Wait, what? "Not doing everything by the book" was not the point. There is no written rule that says you cannot speak to me or address me specifically. I don't understand why you said that; that did not make any sense.

A forum is a message board that leaves posts for an entire group of people. So when you address me specifically, it tends to confuse other people because they do not know if they should respond to your post since you are only talking to me. This has nothing to do with following rules, but just understanding that there are other Christians here you might want to talk with. If you simply wanted to contact me specifically, it would have been a lot easier just to contact me over email through the website, but I presume that the reason you came here was to communicate with other Christians, which means it did not make any sense for you to address me only in your introduction to the entire community.

We should all consider others first before ourselves, looking at how they will see things, rather than just looking at our own point of view.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 10:27:25 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

manawatu

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 11:20:17 PM »
It made perfect sense as you well know,i was simply introducing myself to you as its your ministry, and ok so i perhaps shouldn't have addressed you personally on a public forum ,but surely its not a big deal, and ill make sure i dont address you personally on the forum again.

creationliberty

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2020, 12:03:48 AM »
CHRIS SAYS: "There is no written rule that says you cannot speak to me or address me specifically."

SHANE REPLIES: "ill make sure i dont address you personally on the forum again"

What? ??? I am beyond lost. I have no idea how to respond to that, and I do not think I have the words to be able to explain the problem with what you're saying... I cannot even think of what to say right now. The only conclusion I can come to is that you are not comprehending the words I am writing.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

manawatu

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 03:41:19 AM »
I have no idea what your problem with me is, im going to have to bale out on this conversation, but hopefully we can put this one behind us and move on, as i have found the channel very good.

Timothy

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 07:03:13 AM »
Shane, there is no reason to be so offended. When I read your introduction, it sounded more like a personal email to Chris rather than an introduction to the people on the forum. One of the main reasons for the forum is for fellowship with the Christians here and the way you wrote your introduction sounded like you wanted to talk to Chris only. There have been others that have done the same, and it's not really a "bad" thing, just understand that there are more here than just 1 person. When you introduce yourself to a group, it makes sense that you speak as you would to a group rather than to a specific person in the group. That's all.

I felt I needed to say something because just dropping this like you want to do is not healthy for the Church. This will only cause bitterness towards each other when we don't resolve it and it will lead you down the road to grudging and envy. The Bible says to put those things away from ourselves. Just letting it go like this will not bring peace.

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

James 5:9 - Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

James 3:14 - But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.


creationliberty

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2020, 11:15:02 AM »
Tim is right, and that is exactly what I am trying to point out. Whether or not you found the "channel" (which I take to mean the YouTube channel, which, by the way, is not my ministry) to be "very good" is irrelevant to this conversation. It's almost like you're saying, "If anyone disagrees with me, then they should ignore it because I like Chris's channel..." That's not reasonable, that's not how we do things in the church, and that's not how we are reconciled to one another.

Furthermore, the testimony that you gave in your first introduction post was quite strange. I know that is not what you came here expecting to hear, but I will tell you the truth. I was trying to patient with you at first and get one thing settled at a time, but I need to address this now: What you told us in your introduction was not how the Bible teaches us men are saved.

I can explain it briefly, but if you want the full scope of what I am saying, and you enjoy what I teach, you should listen to this series because I believe it is much more important since it is the foundation of Christian doctrine:
https://youtu.be/NEI_H3QUb7Q?t=20

There was nothing in what you wrote that testified of the law, guilt, sin, or repentance. Instead, you told us you saw a "white light," and then believed. However, the Bible teaches us that even Satan himself can appear as angel of light:
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
-2Co 11:13-15


There are numerous people I have found to be false converts and false teachers who claim they were saved because they saw a light or saw an angel. But Paul, by the Holy Spirit of God, taught us that men come to faith and are saved from the hearing of the law:
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
-Gal 3:24


The hearing of the law is what brings men to repentance. The word 'repent' means "grief," and in terms of salvation, it means "godly sorrow of sin."
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
-2Co 7:9-10


This is why Jesus told His disciples to teach "repentance and remission of sins," which means godly sorrow of wrongdoing to the forgiveness of sin.
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
-Luke 24:44-47


No man can be saved without this, which is why Jesus said that they would all perish without repentance.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
-Luke 13:3
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
-2Pe 3:9


This is better described by Jesus in the parable of the Pharisee and the publican (i.e. tax collector), in which the publican was inwardly and deeply pained in grief and sorrow of his wrongdoing, and sought the Lord for mercy; therefore, he was given "justification," which is salvation unto life:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
-Luke 18:9-14


A man who is born again in Christ has come to the grief and godly sorrow of repentance, believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, and is saved. I will now review your testimony in the order of events that you presented to us to compare it to that doctrine:

1. You called out to Jesus.
2. You saw a white light and became born again.
3. You struggled with a medical issue for two years.
4. You began to be faithful.
5. You started exercising.
6. You left mainstream church buildings.

Did I miss any other important event in what you wrote? Based on what I read in Scripture versus what you told us here, it does not line up. Now, that being said, perhaps you are one of those people who struggles with writing and are not always very clear, and that's understandable; you are always welcome to clarify, but the problem is when you are struggling to accept correction on something so very simple as who you are addressing when you speak, it stands to reason that you will, in your heart, outright reject everything I just said.
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10


Nonetheless, I have to address these things because I care more about your soul than anything else, and I do not want anyone to be deceived, especially when it comes to salvation.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 11:17:05 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

manawatu

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2020, 06:27:27 PM »
Ah so thats it ,reading between the lines i knew there was an issue, and the issue you have being my supernatural encounter with Jesus, which i will never forget. When Jesus filled me with Himself i knew straight away that the bible was true and that christians were seeking and worshipping the real God of Heaven . But such an encounter is not at all strange,many believers have such testimonies,admittedly some may be false , and you may think that it was the devil appearing before me and not Jesus, however i did cry out to Jesus Christ ,i most certainly did not cry out to satan, and is the devil capable of giving out love,i believe love is a trait the God of Heaven has in abundance. Repentance is important i agree ,if we confess our sins before the Lord He is faithful to forgive us,yes i agree repentance is vital but mature christians probably are more aware of that requirement than new believers after all we are on a journey where Christ is fashioning us into His own likeness.As for correcting me re the addressing you personally on a public forum, it was more the curt, brusque way you did so that rubbed me the wrong way,not the actual correction,but i realise that my testimony perhaps rubbed you the wrong way, but my testimony is what it is. Im happy to stay connected here as i know there is a great need for this type of ministry and do greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into your teaching here and on your u tube channel,its certainly been a blessing to me, Thankyou blessings in Christ.

creationliberty

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2020, 11:24:13 PM »
If you believe that your testimony was what triggered me to address you on how you were not addressing everyone else on the forum, and you were, for some strange reason, only speaking to me, then you have judged the matter in error. Even if someone had expressed actual godly sorrow, I still would have pointed that out to them, as I have done in the past, and if you want the evidence for that, you can see it here: http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=986.msg8124#msg8124 -- You will notice that Madonna (the Christian woman I addressed) expressed her godly sorrow of repentance, where as you did not, and she responded in humility, whereas you did not. (i.e. You tried to make yourself out to be some sort of victim instead.) There is a good reason for that pattern, but you denied the Scripture I showed you, so you will not be able to understand it.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14


I showed you the Scripture, and in summary, you have ultimately said: "Chris, I don't care what the Bible says, I trust my experiences." If that is the case, you are welcome to stick around, but you are not like-minded with us, and you will quickly find that out through conversations. (i.e. I'm not talking about vague comments like "your u tube channel is greatly needed," but actual conversation about Scripture.)

Whether you enjoyed the few of my teachings you have listened to or not is IRRELEVANT to this conversation. I needed to emphasize that because it does not appear that you understand it. Frankly, I do not care whether or not you like this because this is NOT a popularity contest, nor is my goal to appease you. This is a matter of repentance unto salvation, in which the souls of those who might be reading this are the top priority for the church, and so far, you have not given anything in your testimony about repentance, and there has been nothing in your responses that have demonstrated that humility of repentance and adherence to God's Word.

If you do not like that, then you are welcome to go somewhere else and listen to someone else. I do not want you to waste your time, so I will be direct with you: If you believe you have come to Jesus Christ through another means aside from how His Word tells us people come to Christ, then I do not believe you are a Christian, no matter how many white lights you claim to have seen.

Have a great evening.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 11:41:52 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

manawatu

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2020, 05:10:22 PM »
Chris whether or not you believe me to be a christian is irrelevant to me, totally meaningless, i couldn't care 2 cents , my relationship with my Heavenly Father is personal and does not involve another person or their opinion. Jesus explained to Nicodemus that we must be born again to enter the kingdom of Heaven, Gods Spirit must live within us,the kingdom of God is within us and The Holy Spirit is His seal upon us that we belong to Him. Now even though you are well grounded in the Word, i realise that you probably have a form of Godliness without the power that the Holy Spirit gives to the true believers.That is why as you have already told me you found my testimony strange, if you had a personal relationship with Jesus you would not have done so. John 15 v7 makes it clear that we must abide in Jesus and His Word, so we must know Him as well as His word.       I dont have any confidence in the authenticity of your christian walk and know first hand that you do not have the love of Christ in you, therefore i wish you well ,but have no desire to participate here any further.

anvilhauler

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2020, 05:47:29 PM »
Hi Shane

I also live in New Zealand, I'm in Dunedin.  In life, interesting events can happen such as you had happen.  I have had "interesting" things happen too and for me I'm not too sure where those things fit in   .....  were they of God   .....  or were they actually of Satan the devil.  I never actually mention any of those things because they really don't hold any value.  If they were of God, then great and it caused me to more fully hold on to the word of God and mature more as a Christian.  If those experiences were of Satan the devil then that is also good because he has again just shot himself in the foot because it has caused me to more fully have a desire to study God's word and be a much more mature Christian in caring for others in the church and a deep desire to see others truly become of Christ and move from strength to strength and more solid in their faith in Christ.  I have been watching this thread from the sidelines and I totally agree with Chris in all that he has written, not because we are friends but because it is correct.

If I were in your position I would almost totally ignore and forget about the experience you had with the light and move on in a more in depth relationship with Christ.  There is even quite a good topic to be covered there about what you wrote about the Holy Spirit.  When Jesus left the world and promised that another would be given in his place and the new tabernacle of God would not be in a temple made by the hands of men but rather the Holy Spirit would be given and dwell within his people then there is no reason why the Holy Spirit will not be given to a person such as Chris who has repented (grief and sorrow of wrong doing against God) and has accepted that the punishment due to Him has been covered by the death of Christ on the cross.  I too am concerned for you because of what you wrote and in the future when "lying wonders" come along if you don't have a good working knowledge of the Bible then you may be fooled by those events.  Even if you yourself were taking part in events that were miraculous to onlookers, that doesn't mean you are definitely of Christ.  In all that you see and hear, you need to be constantly asking yourself "what does the Bible say about this"?  Humility and quiet thoughtfulness are essential life assets as a Christian in the world full of wolves and I'm sure that Paul the apostle and Timothy and Peter would have been just as concerned for you as Chris is   .....  and myself.

Anyway.  I wish you all the very best.

And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

MeganIA

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2020, 06:39:17 PM »
Kevin, that was wonderfully said!

Shane, if you are still around, I'm interested to hear more on what caused you to call out to Jesus.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

creationliberty

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Re: Introducing myself to CLE ministry
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2020, 07:52:36 PM »
Chris whether or not you believe me to be a christian is irrelevant to me, totally meaningless, i couldn't care 2 cents
I was aware of that long before you made this recent post. I was hoping you would care about what the Word of God says on the matter, but you obviously don't.
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
-Matthew 12:39


It is a wicked man that looks to signs and miracles for the foundation of his faith. Those who have been born again in Christ look to Word of God as the foundation of their faith, but to condemn anyone who dares to question you on the basis of your hurt feelings only provides more evidence to support what I said earlier. If you don't care about what the Word of God says about these matters, then you might as well join the (as you put it) "spiritual wasteland" church-ianity organizations in New Zealand because without godly sorrow (i.e. repentance) in your heart, it will not make any difference.
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
-James 4:6


What was most amazing about your first comment to your last one is this:
"the deeper i get into this channel the more i realise how people are being duped into following people without any personal knowledge of Christ,and thats a huge issue"
I have had so many people write me and join our forum to say similar things, but then when we question their understanding of the Gospel of Christ, only to find their understanding lacking, they are offended that I (and others here) point out that they are part of the "duped" culture, which results in them going from thanking me for my work in ministry, to condemning me to hell with just a few days, hours, and sometimes minutes.

For example:
SHANE'S ENTRANCE: "Thanks for your ministry Chris ,blessings to you and the members in Christ
SHANE'S EXIT THREE DAYS LATER: "I dont have any confidence in the authenticity of your christian walk and know first hand that you do not have the love of Christ in you"

That reveals the pride in your heart, as Jesus said:
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Matthew 15:18


That's also why you never quoted any Scripture in any of your posts to back up your claims; because you don't know it well enough to do so. That's why the Bible tells us that the born again elect of God have heard the Word AND understood it, but the seeds that fall on bad ground hear it, but do not understand it:
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
-Matthew 13:23


For anyone else reading this, if you want to learn more about this subject, and why I do not believe Shane has been born again Christ, visit the following link and read about it:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell
He will not be willing to read or listen anymore, but perhaps there is hope for someone out there, if God has given you a humble heart to gain undertanding.
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
-2 Timothy 2:25


For the members of our forum, I wanted to say that there were actually more problems with Shane's original post that I did not address. As I stated in an earlier response to Shane, I was trying to be patient with him. If anyone wants to know more details, you are welcome to ask, or if you are a member of our church, perhaps we can discuss it over Skype the next time we meet.

I hope Shane will depart in peace, since he stated (" have no desire to participate here any further"), and I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless him and his family with all their needs throughout the coming week, that they would be well fed and healthy in all things.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18