Author Topic: THE FRUITS  (Read 5225 times)

Masha

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THE FRUITS
« on: March 31, 2019, 09:02:31 AM »
What concerns me most is that people on this forum seem to think that this ministry is the same as a local church. It is not. No where in the Bible does a internetgathering replace the local church, and even if unleavened churches are hard to find, you shall not forsake the gathering yourself together. That is in a physical form! You can disagree for your own comfort and peace of mind, but your internetchurch and internet contacts are NOT THE SAME as seeing someone in the eye and meeting IN PERSON with others.
So, even if you have much discernment in all kind of doctrine, you are all failing to follow a very important doctrine.

I could go and descept the sentences in the posts, and reply to each one. I did not do that to the other accusations, because it would not have been edifying, and I am not so proud that I need to be right at the cost of this ministry. In the end none of you have ever walked an inch in my shoes, so all your opinions are just that. Opinions. I am a human being, I have many flaws. Christopher Johnson is a human being,  he has flaws. I hope and pray that you all will see that and consider that, as much as you are willing to rebuke me, be likewise with all brethren.
 
The biggest thing I have to say is really:

Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

You accuse me of attacking where I just expressed an opinion. I still hold to the opinion it was a waste of my time to watch that video, I did not say anything about the ministry. I , like any other, have the liberty to have an opinion.
I do not have anything against Chris. Dee, you are defending where there is no attack.
And on top of it, both Dee and Chris need to bring up the past. I did not do that, nor will I do that. It is WRONG and nasty, and not loving nor edifying. It shows there is no forgiveness, and there is no patience. And both of those should be there!!

1Ti 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

1Th 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Rom 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

1 Tim 3   : 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Cor 8:  1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
    2, And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
    3, But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

I am sure that the CLE website helps people to grow in their faith and discernment. I never said anything against it, whatsoever. To accuse me of doing so is simply false.

It is VERY IMPORTANT you realise that with this internetbased

creationliberty

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2019, 10:06:17 AM »
What concerns me most is that people on this forum seem to think that this ministry is the same as a local church. It is not. No where in the Bible does a internet gathering replace the local church, and even if unleavened churches are hard to find, you shall not forsake the gathering yourself together.
Okay, then provide your Scripture that describes "the local church."
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
-Mat 18:19-20

This slap-n-run style of communication has become more common with you Masha; obviously you wanted to make this comment and then run away without discussion of it. That's terribly childish of you.

That is in a physical form! You can disagree for your own comfort and peace of mind, but your internetchurch and internet contacts are NOT THE SAME as seeing someone in the eye and meeting IN PERSON with others.
So, even if you have much discernment in all kind of doctrine, you are all failing to follow a very important doctrine.
Interesting that we are accused of ignoring a "very important doctrine" without being given any Scriptural commandments about that "very important doctrine." How many times have I warned you all about people who do that? Perhaps I can help with the Scripture end of it since Masha can't do it:
And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
-Col 2:4-5

I am thankful, Masha, that you finally came out and showed us your true heart, because I could see this in you a long time ago. There was no reason to hide or stand on pretense, but when it became more obvious to others here, you finally had enough hiding.

I could go and descept the sentences in the posts, and reply to each one. I did not do that to the other accusations, because it would not have been edifying, and I am not so proud that I need to be right at the cost of this ministry.
Accusations of pride without backing up the claim; this is standard operating procedure from deceitful people. She's attempting to claim that her slap-n-run (i.e. make false accusations and then leave before anyone can respond) is a "humble" way of approaching the matter, and once again, no Scripture.

In the end none of you have ever walked an inch in my shoes, so all your opinions are just that. Opinions. I am a human being, I have many flaws. Christopher Johnson is a human being,  he has flaws. I hope and pray that you all will see that and consider that, as much as you are willing to rebuke me, be likewise with all brethren.
You never accepted any rebuke. That's something I think you missed. You simply tried to make "peace" (which obviously was a false peace), without addressing the actual problem. You didn't know this, but I discussed this privately with our church over a year ago, and I told them that I had concerns because you didn't actually resolve matters by addressing the subject matter, and that you were just trying to have everyone get along. From the very beginning, from when you joined and then immediately left our church, there has been a serious problem of you in complete denial, and we've all tried to tell you the truth, but to no avail because you will listen, but not hear.

The biggest thing I have to say is really:
Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
I certainly agree with that, but you should take precept upon precept (Isa 28:10).
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
-Luke 17:3

I've not really seen any repentance in you, as much as I've seen you ignoring major problem, and that's something we tried to talk to you about from the very beginning, years ago, when you joined our church for a short time. You and your husband both sit back and think you do no wrong, and that's the problem. You say that you "have flaws," but we have no idea what flaws you're talking about because you never admit to any of them.

You accuse me of attacking where I just expressed an opinion. I still hold to the opinion it was a waste of my time to watch that video, I did not say anything about the ministry. I , like any other, have the liberty to have an opinion.
I'm laughing within myself right now because Masha believes than an opinion cannot be an attack. That's absurd, and I guarantee she knows that's absurd. She's throwing a fit in her emotional rage, and not calming herself down to consider the matter.
For example, I could have an opinion that Masha has Klu Klux Klan (KKK) philosophy. Of course, I don't believe that, under that hypothetical situation, she would defend herself against that and rebuke me for attacking her, but I was "just expressing an opinion." Personal attacks ARE personal opinions, whether they are true or not. I don't know who Masha thinks she's fooling by trying to justify herself.
Masha believes the video I posted earlier was a waste of time. Since she's slapping and running, I'll give everyone else a context so they understand what happened; here's the link where you can read about it if you want:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=607.0
What I attempted to do was to explain to Masha that the video, and my teaching on Anderson (which she attacked both) had more than one purpose, explaining to her that others were benefiting from the doctrine. However, we've had past problem with Masha only think of herself, and her own opinions, instead of thinking about others outside of herself.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
-Phl 2:4


I do not have anything against Chris.
That's a lie, and you need to repent. At least be honest because if you didn't have anything against me, then you'd be open to discuss the matter. The slap-n-run technique shows that you have A LOT against me, and against others here.

Dee, you are defending where there is no attack.
That's another lie.

And on top of it, both Dee and Chris need to bring up the past. I did not do that, nor will I do that. It is WRONG and nasty, and not loving nor edifying. It shows there is no forgiveness, and there is no patience. And both of those should be there!!
There is no forgiveness because there is no repentance from Masha. Not only was there a lack of repentance on multiple problems we've had with her, and she keeps repeating the same offenses over and over, but now she accuses of us of having "no patience" when we've kept her around her for the past few years, waiting for her to come to understanding.
Lie, after lie, after lie. There's nothing else I can do at this point.

1Ti 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Th 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Rom 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
1 Tim 3   : 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1 Cor 8:  1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
    2, And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
    3, But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
Is slapping and running off in a childish fit righteous and godly in faith and patience and meekness? Is slapping and running loving and edifying in Christ? Is lying and falsely accusing us charitable and demonstrating of a love for God?
By the way, a brawler is a "noisy person," so look at my response here to Masha, and then look at her words from her other posts in the threat I linked above:
You may have a lot of biblical knowledge even all knowledge but without charity (Which lacks in everything this person seems to do) IT IS NOTHING!!! and surely it has nothing to do with our Lord Jesus Christ!!!
So what does all caps with multiple exclamation points indicate? A noisy person. In context, she was talking about Steven Anderson, and doing so in the same noisy way that Steven Anderson talks about others. It seems she doesn't have any love for her enemies either.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
-Mat 5:44


I am sure that the CLE website helps people to grow in their faith and discernment. I never said anything against it, whatsoever. To accuse me of doing so is simply false.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone accusing her of saying that our ministry does not help people grow in faith and discernment. Dee correctly accused Masha of "attacking with 'sly' jabs." And Masha, in her "farewell" post proved that to be true. So no one accused Masha of saying that, which makes this statement a "strawman" argument, meaning that she's fighting an opponent that isn't there, and it's also a red herring, meaning that it intended to distract others from the arguments that are being made.

It is VERY IMPORTANT you realise that with this internetbased
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows what the internet is by now. I don't think anyone believes we've fused with our computer systems. All I can say is that Masha would have just been better off leaving instead of leaving with this final post; she embarrassed herself. All I can say is what I usually tell false converts: I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the coming week, as I would wish for your children to be well cared for, and I need to get back to work. Have a great day.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2019, 02:05:38 PM »
What concerns me most is that people on this forum seem to think that this ministry is the same as a local church. It is not. No where in the Bible does a internetgathering replace the local church, and even if unleavened churches are hard to find, you shall not forsake the gathering yourself together. That is in a physical form! You can disagree for your own comfort and peace of mind, but your internetchurch and internet contacts are NOT THE SAME as seeing someone in the eye and meeting IN PERSON with others.
So, even if you have much discernment in all kind of doctrine, you are all failing to follow a very important doctrine.

I was wondering since you do not have time to watch a short video, do you have time to read your bible? You say you are to busy but some how found time to write this.
Did you know some of the books of the new testament were letters written unto the church because they couldn't be eye to eye with them? So are you claim that we are not a church because we gather on Internet where we can video chat and see eye to eye face to face but yet they are a church when they gather in letters and in spirit.

O masha any one who comes here and read the many post can see you do not like Chris. It seems every other week you get into it with Chris

So did masha left the church? 

Dee Babbitt

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2019, 03:03:06 PM »
Did you know some of the books of the new testament were letters written unto the church because they couldn't be eye to eye with them?
. . .  a church when they gather in letters and in spirit.

So did masha left the church? 

Billy, those are good points you made.

Yes, it appears she has left... she deleted her account and all her posts, as well.

That isn't what I wanted, I did not want her to leave...
It is sad, because at least here, she could have people being honest with each other.

May God watch over her and her family,
and may their eyes be opened to the Truth, and their hearts be opened to Repentance and humbleness.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 03:14:36 PM by Dee Babbitt »

anvilhauler

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2019, 03:12:40 PM »
I agree with everything you have written Chris.  I was hoping that Masha would have gained a whole lot more insight and understood a lot more about what it is to be a Christian and understood a lot more about what it is to be a church congregation.

There comes the time for people like Masha when all one can do is see them walk away from what is clearly written in the scriptures in to a world that is basically a minefield for someone like her.  Masha has completely missed it that you are feverishly working to provide materials to keep people like her safe and secure. 

I found it ironic that most of the scriptures she quoted would have been perfect for when you asked for scriptural basis on why Steven Anderson's behaviour etc was totally wrong.  You might want to add most of those on to the list.

And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2019, 07:06:48 PM »

Yes, it appears she has left... she deleted her account and all her posts, as well.

She deleted all her posts, too?! She should not have been able to do that. People reading this forum should be able to see the contention she has continued to bring here all this time so that they do not get the wrong impression of us.

Dee Babbitt

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2019, 07:27:49 PM »
 i
She deleted all her posts, too?! She should not have been able to do that. People reading this forum should be able to see the contention she has continued to bring here all this time so that they do not get the wrong impression of us.

sorry, I was wrong... just checked and did find some of her old posts
(when checking earlier, i didn't see her posts)


Dee Babbitt

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2019, 07:59:21 PM »

in fact, here is a post i just happened to come across, just now...

It does not matter who it is from, that is true.
If anyone has benefits from it, it may serve a purpose. So I apologise for saying it is useless. I learned about the value of my posts, in comparison to others. I should give my words more thought before I post.
I still find it a rather vague concept, and agree with Joop that I much rather have open rebuke with a clear motivation.

i really didn't want her to leave...
i just wanted her to stop treating Christopher badly, when all he is doing is trying to help people

is this becoming a pattern with me?  i've said something, to a couple of people here...and they left

please, please rebuke me, if I need to be rebuked...
maybe, before i post a rebuke, i should run it by someone in our church...?

anvilhauler

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2019, 08:11:40 PM »

i really didn't want her to leave...
i just wanted her to stop treating Christopher badly, when all he is doing is trying to help people

is this becoming a pattern with me?  i've said something, to a couple of people here...and they left

please, please rebuke me, if I need to be rebuked...
maybe, before i post a rebuke, i should run it by someone in our church...?

In my opinion you have done nothing wrong Dee.  The people who have left after reading things written by you and others already had one foot out the door and it was only going to take a small amount of sound teaching and rebuke to see them go completely out the door. 

The next posting from Chris or Tim or Jeanne would have quite likely have sent those people running for the door too.

I enjoy reading your postings.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2019, 08:21:49 PM »
Dee, as we told you before, you didn't do anything wrong! You told her what she needed to hear and she didn't like it. Simple as that.

Maybe BECAUSE you are always so nice and considerate of others' feelings, your rebuke came across to her as more harsh than it really was. As Chris said, though, it was only a matter of time before she did something like this. Frankly, I'm surprised she lasted as long as she did.

It's not your fault she left, any more than it's your fault anyone else has left or been kicked out. You know Chris would have rebuked you if he thought you needed it, which is why he SPECIFICALLY addressed your post to her and pointed out that what you said was exactly right. He knew you would feel this way about her leaving and wanted to make sure that you knew that it was NOT your fault.

We know you didn't want her to leave but that's a choice SHE made all by herself because she can't stand to be corrected. She was always very defensive in the things she said and would not listen to anyone, not just you or me or Chris.

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2019, 08:45:43 PM »
You're only in the situation Dee because when she left last time I contacted her in the hope that she might sort herself out and come back and be an upright and established member of the group.  I'm at blame for her coming back and maybe even to blame for her not sorting herself out sooner. 

Masha has continued in ways that are not acceptable and so it is best at this time that she is gone and hopefully she will sort herself out and I'm sure if she did then she would be accepted back with open and kind and loving arms. 

I was hoping that all of the teachings on repentance and grief and sorrow for wrong doing was going to have an effect on Masha, but it seems all of that has fallen on deaf ears.
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.  Micah 5:7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Dee Babbitt

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2019, 09:11:21 PM »
Thank you, church family

Christopher, Lorraine, Tonya, Kevin, and Jeanne...  you have given me much comfort
Thank you Christopher for your post, and explaining everything.

(it's my spirit that is saddened...
losing these people is painful, because there was always the hope that they would become part of the flock,
may Our Lord, the Good Shepherd, watch over them and keep them safe, and bring them to Him, with Repentance
and may they be given His Peace)

Kevin, you were kind to her... and wanted her to have a good place to belong.  You were looking out for her. 
Definitely, if she can get herself sorted out we would welcome her with open and kind and loving arms.  :-)

strangersmind

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 05:01:36 AM »
Is she apart of churchinanity?
I always got a sense she was apart of the family of Christ but at the same time going to a false worldly church as well
well we can pray for her and her family to come to Christ in repentance

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2019, 08:58:35 AM »
It doesn't really matter what she's a part of at this point, let her go her way. My concern is this: If she truly believed what she was saying, then why did she wait three years to tell us? There are only two reasons I can think of:

1. She's living a lie, and she cares so little about us that she never bothered to correct us. (Not that we need correction on the matter, but I'm talking about her perspective.)
or...
2. She threw a childish tantrum and had to come up with something to say; it's the same thing as children do, when they're hurt and they want to say something that they believe will cause hurt, while also trying to find an excuse to make herself feel justified on departure.

Either way, it's bad, and either way, what I said about her was still correct: She doesn't think about anyone else but herself; her words and actions are typically self-motivated. I told her that a long time ago, but she rejected it. However, knowing Masha's history with us, I believe it's #2.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2019, 10:48:58 AM »
I am sad Masha left.

Jeanne

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2019, 05:00:58 PM »
So are the rest of us. But until she's willing to accept correction and rebuke with humility instead of excuses, she really doesn't belong here.

As has been pointed out, she's been needling Chris for three years now with these sharp little comments and has refused to address the issue when it is pointed out to her. She refused to even admit she was doing it! This is what is known as 'murmuring' in the Bible. God dealt pretty harshly with the murmerers of Israel in the OT. We don't do that now, of course, but when someone continually does it and won't accept correction on the issue, there's not much we can do except depart from them. In this case, Masha was the one who made the decision to depart.

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2019, 05:59:01 PM »
She is a testimony to show the patients of the church. Showing the long suffering in the hope to see God work in one's life and grow in christ

hashed

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Re: THE FRUITS
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2019, 03:29:26 AM »
Yesterday in the evening I was checking this forum for new posts (as I frequently do) and then I saw a new post of Masha. It was created with a new account. The last sentence of the initial post was clearly cut off and she showed the part that was missing plus some extras (including many copy/paste of Bible texts). When I wanted to read it again more carefully later, I noticed the post was deleted already.

Her husband made only a few posts on this forum. He was very angry about some teaching, but he did not take the effort to specify what teaching and what part it was. Very vague. He never explained himself further, at least as far as I know or can remember. In my imagination he is someone I would stay far away from.
I could not understand how a Christian can be married with such an angry person (angry without a good reason).

Masha takes a lot more time to reveal herself.  She still did not explain herself completely.

At least I learned I should not trust what people write on a forum, whatever title or label they might have.