Author Topic: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs  (Read 1845 times)

Offline creationliberty

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(DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« on: December 24, 2016, 10:02:43 PM »
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Offline Jeanne

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 11:43:33 PM »
This was a great discussion and we didn't even touch on the fact that most hormone replacement therapy drugs are made from the urine of pregnant mares. These poor animals spend their lives locked up in tiny stalls where they barely have enough room to move and are kept pregnant as much as possible. The foals are just 'waste products' and are disposed of soon after birth so the mother can be impregnated again. Still want to take your synthetic oestrogen drugs?

Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2016, 02:20:35 AM »
They are basically saying "God made a mistake".  Anything they can manufacture and make dollars out of it they will do it, so long as people will buy what they have to sell.  A healthy mixed diet is quite likely more what these people need. 

As for fractures there is quite a bit of evidence that drinking milk and having other dairy products as well as hormone replacement therapy is not the answer.  I also hear people here saying all the time that milk is expensive and children need milk for growing bones etc.  Cows that produce milk do not get the calcium from milk   ....   they are cows   .....   they do not drink milk   .....   they eat grass   .....  raw grass.  Grass is full of calcium.  Again, raw vegetables such as brocolli is a rich source of calcium as are other vegetables and has been shown to be more effective in reducing fractures in older people.

Not that all milk is bad.  A land flowing with milk and honey.

I'm being a bit picky here Jeanne and I hope you don't mind this small correction.  Oestrogens from urine are natural oestrogens and not synthetic.
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Offline Jeanne

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2016, 05:31:03 AM »
Point taken, Kevin, but I still wouldn't want to take anything derived from horse urine...

Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2016, 03:47:51 PM »
No, I wouldn't take anything extracted from horse urine either.

The subject does make me think of a funny incident a few years ago.  We had an end of year function at a restaurant and the others I work with were drinking beer and wine.  I have never been a drinker and so I was drinking water.  I find the taste of both beer and wine to be revolting.

One of the secretarial staff quizzed me and asked and commented

Secretary: "don't you drink either beer or wine?  wine is really nice!". 

Kevin: Nice?  I actually can't even begin to imagine how you can even drink wine, but not only that, you enjoy drinking it.  It tastes like drinking horse urine.

Secretary: How do you know that?  Have you drunk horse urine?

I was asking for that one.  It was actually quite sadly entertaining that the more alcohol she drank the more hilariously innappropriate comments she made to me.  I've often wondered how she felt about it once she had sobered up   .....  that is if she even remembered the things she said.

And being someone who doesn't like drinking wine   .....  I'm the one who is uncultured  ;D  LOL
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Offline davehenry

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2016, 11:38:49 AM »
Hi y'all,i hope and pray everybody is well".i watched the discussion on sunday and there were extreemly great truthful points raised.I myself take 3 different types of pharmakia for polymicrogyria(epilepsy)and was reasonably steady 6+ years ago(1 absence every 2 weeks at the most and could go up to 1-2 months without.Being as brutish and stupid as i am thought that changing from the 2 meds i was on back then (KEPPRA and LAMICTAL)trying different tablets which were the super "wonder drugs" would stop the seizures completly,but boy was i wrong.Absences became fully blown seizures very quickly and ended up in hospital a number of times.Long story short...My consultant just upped and lowered the dosage and kept switching meds over and over,it was then that i started a couple of years research into natural alternatives.I got in touch with Scott Johnson from contendingfortruth.com who i'd been listening tofor a little while and he recommended stuff from STANDARD PROCESS.My consultant by this time had me on 4 or 5 meds,one of which(VIMPAT)litterally nearly drove me crazy,i nearly lost my wife,apartment and the poor cat(praise the Lord Jesus Christ he used everything to bring me to breaking point and godly sorrow to repentance,Amen!!
Things calmed down dramatically but i found out that that (VIMPAT)is used as an anti psycotic drug,i said to my consultant but he flatly denied it,it was then i mentioned the natural alternatives but he said nothing like that works and i asked him how did he know this,but he said
THIS IS ME YOU'RE TALKING TO DAVID!my temper went up and up and i was ready to get up,but i felt an instant calm,praise the Lord Jesus Christ!he then said he was going to take me off the VIMPAT and i asked to be put on what i was on when steady.I was eventually put on the meds i was on but was put on a med called CLOBAZAM(which affects memory badly) when in hospital a time before that which was only meant to be temporary and he refused to take me off it for some reason and also refused to put me on the exact dosage i was on when quite steady saying he did'nt want me to have more seizures(i have absences and blackouts every other day anyhow now sdo there would've been nothing to lose anyhow.He has now gone private and left all his patients without a consultant which will eventually will get sorted but he'll be making an absolute fortune as.My GP is now looking for a new consultant(praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
and i will be able to explain what my last consultant refused to acknowledge but the lies and deception through the medical establishment is crazy at the very top and BIG PHARMA are nothing short of satanic!
MAY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST RICHLY BLESS YE!!
I hope everything made sence".

Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2016, 05:32:44 PM »
As you found, all of the man made pharmaceuticals have side effects and they can be really horrible.  Surely the only use for them would be using them just long enough to buy some time to keep ones self alive long enough until they can find a God given solution.  What we don't tend to have around today is the physician like there used to be in the old days who could point people to the plants etc that they needed to overcome ailments but we do have the internet and books.  The study of plants for medicinal purposes is called pharmacognosy.

Your posting has sparked an interest in me and I'll also look through the literature and see if I can find any natural medicines for treating conditions like you mention. 

What God is obviously against with pharmaceuticals is people misusing them.  He obviously made plants to produce molecules like morphine and that was so that people could have pain relief from serious injuries that were always going to come about as a result of us going about the business of felling trees for housing or fishing and hunting for food and usual farming etc etc.  Of course it was only a matter of time until there would be people who would use morphine and other God given compounds when there was nothing wrong with them just so they could get "high" on it.  We could have a poll on who would like to have even some basic surgery done with no anaesthetic.  For me, I know that my answer is a definite "No".

We also live in a time when the genome of man is becoming more and more corrupted with each generation and as a result there is going to be more and more people with a multitude of defects like what you and countless others suffer from.  Surely a time when those who cry out to God with clean hands and a contrite heart will come under God's special umbrella of grace and care.  That of course isn't anything negative against you and that you aren't there already. 

There is of course also coming the 'end of the age' when this current system of souls being created in association with man's corrupted and faulty reproduction will come to an end. 


May God's grace be extended to you in this time of need

Kevin
Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2016, 06:40:18 AM »
Another interesting topic on pharmaceuticals is the antibiotics.  Many antibiotics are actually natural products and of course there are countless times they have been used to save people's lives.  Penicillin as one antibiotic is a natural product and was discovered early in the 20th century and then used to its full effect in the 1940's and for years after that.  Penicillin was extracted from cultures of the fungus Penicillium notatum (which has since had its name changed).  We have of course been using yeasts for years and is the leavening used in bread making. 

Here's an interesting bit for Jeanne  ;D  since we were discussing compounds being extracted from urine.

When penicillin was first extracted from cultures of fungi, it was in such small amounts and was so expensive that when it was given to a patient their urine was collected afterwards and the penicillin was recovered and purified back to pure penicillin so that it could be used again.

Question:

You are a parent and you have a husband whom you love and children whom you love too.  You have developed an infection that is very quickly spreading through your body and any other type of treatment that may work such as eating lots of onions and garlic and turmeric will probably not halt the infection before you die.  There is some penicillin (a God created molecule) that has been extracted from another person's urine and is clean and purified down to being just pure penicillin and nothing else.

Would you like to take the penicillin tablet and survive?  LOL No pressure  ;D

A)  No thankyou, I would rather die.
B)  Yes, please.

There are lots of other antibiotics that are natural products too.  If anyone is interested in having a look further, have a look at the cephalosporins, bacitracin, vancomycin.

The Google Hangouts talk was interesting, because it does also bring up the topic of people taking antibiotics.  Penicillin has been used extensively for treating Gonorrhea and Syphilis which as we know are diseases usually caused by people's lifestyle.  Because of the widespread use of the antibiotic, resistant strains of the pathogens have emerged.  Because of bacterial resistance, more and more artificial antibiotics have been created and antibiotic toxicity is one of the side effects amongst others.  I picked up that this might have been what Tonya was thinking of when she mentioned about the use of antibiotics.

Doing a Google search for "antibiotic toxicity" "horror stories" 
https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22antibiotic+toxicity%22+%22horror+stories%22     brings up quite a few results.  Lots of people have heard of someone who was on antibiotics and this happened or that happened, not realizing that those compounds were developed by man, were sythesized in a laboratory and eventually given the OK by bodies like the FDA to be used on people.

Apologies if some of my posts are more like microbiology lectures, but one day some old remedies might come in very handy and may even save the life of someone near and dear to us.
Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Offline Jeanne

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 07:51:15 AM »
And you didn't want to join us live because you thought you'd have nothing to contribute! Wish you could have been there, Kevin. You add a lot more to discussions than you think you do. I know penicillin is made from a type of mould, and my husband thinks it's the same type of mould you find on bread...

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 12:56:22 PM »
"Would you like to take the penicillin tablet and survive?  LOL No pressure  ;D

A)  No thankyou, I would rather die.
B)  Yes, please."

 Kevin, I have to argue with you slightly here. There is another option you're not looking for: natural healing. I would say no thank you but I wouldn't die. I would use when I know how to use and allow my body to heal. God has given us so many things to use instead of the pharmaceutical drugs and we need to learn how to use them!
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 2 Cor. 6:17

Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2016, 04:55:35 PM »
Hi

Thanks for the replies.  It wasn't false humility that I claimed to not have anything to add to the Google Hangouts discussion.  As far as usual pharmaceuticals are concerned I actually know less than the ordinary person in the street (how embarrassing).  Usual pharmaceuticals are something I never read up on and I have never really read up on as it is of little interest to me.  Biochemistry, physiology and microbiology are of a lot of interest to me though.

Hi Tonya

Quote
I would say no thank you but I wouldn't die.

If you have a serious infection and it is taking over your body you will most certainly die.  There is no way your body can fight off such an infection like that and millions of people are proof that you will die from an infection like that.  This is the reason I take a lot of notice about research such as the ancient antibiotics project and also take an active interest in the use of very large doses of vitamin c being given intravenously as came up in another discussion we had here on the forum.  (That pure vitamin c is artifically created too as there is no cheap way to extract large quantity of pure vitamin c from plant or fruit material).

In the history of things it was only going to be a matter of time until it was discovered that some fungi and bacteria were going to produce compounds that could fight off infection and that we could use them.  For me I tend to look towards God and say "Father thankyou for providing these medicines". 

People being brought back from a near death experience might just be the thing that also makes them think about their eternity.  The "medical profession" might not tell them what they need to hear because they don't know what we know, but hopefully that person will meet up with someone like me and I'll certainly give them an interesting lecture about microbiology and genetics and DNA and God and where they are now and where they are going in the future. 
Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2016, 05:03:31 PM »
Ooops, I meant to answer.  No, you won't get penicillin from bread mould.  Also, don't eat bread mould.
Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Offline Jeanne

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2016, 05:44:56 PM »
I don't and wouldn't... unless, possibly, I was in some sort of concentration camp or prison where that's all you get fed. And even then, I might think twice about it...

Offline Joshua

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2016, 09:33:31 PM »
I am wondering what everyone's thoughts are concerning Pro-biotics.  I only know a little about Pro-biotics, but I was wondering if anyone had some input on them.


I believe in faith healing (No, not the "Great" Benny Hinn).  I believe the following goes for any health problem Faith + Praying for good health = Good health  

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth. I have strong faith or no faith in the testimony of a witness, or in what a historian narrates.

Consider the following:
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
-Luke 8


5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel...
-Matthew 8

Now two people have been healed by the Lord God through faith?


24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them
-Mark 11

The centurion said "my servant shall be healed"; instead of believing believe God could heal his servant, the centurion believed that the Lord God would heal him.

Also verse 13
13And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
-Matthew 8

When the centurion asked Jesus, he believed that he would receive, so he received (i.e. he was rewarded for his faith)

I believe that any sickness can be healed through faith + prayer; I believe it to be a kind of a "reward" for our faith.  I think even if the Lord God is chastening you (with sickness), He would still heal you (for your faith); and then He would find another way to chasten you.

But I thought I would bring up faith healing, to see what your thoughts are for this as an alternative from other healing methods.  Perhaps i'm wrong, and i'd like to be corrected.

P.S. perhaps "faith healing" is the wrong thing to call it ???
But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; -1 Corinthians 7:29-30
Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. -Ephesians 5:16


Offline anvilhauler

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Re: (DISCUSSION) #004 Pharmaceutical Drugs
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2016, 09:34:44 PM »
The term probiotics is a very abused and undefined term and is mainly used by manufacturers and marketers to sell products and make lots of money for themselves.  A good normal healthy diet has the compounds in it to provide what our body needs.  Some of the compounds we need to be eating are of course cut out of people's diets by what is printed in the media.  For us though, do we believe the media or believe the Word of God.  I know which side I am firmly on. 

See Chris' written article and audio teaching if you haven't yet read or listened to those.  They are very good.

The Cure for Cancer
http://creationliberty.com/articles/cureforcancer.php

http://creationliberty.com/audio.php     (The cure For Cancer)

I really believe people can be cured by God too, but I am sure at the same time He expects us to do as much as we can to maintain the health of our bodies.  As Chris points out in the cancer teaching:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
-Genesis 1:29


God has given us the seeds in fruits and He expects us to crunch them up and eat them.  If we have ill health and we haven't followed what we have been told to do and use what God has provided for us then we really have ourselves to blame when things go wrong.

That makes me think of the pic that Chris put in of the overweight preacher.  He might eventually have severe health issues if he hasn't already.  When that time comes he might say "I have faith that God will heal me".  Well that one is up to God.  But for me personally, I would look at him and say that God may help him, but he really hasn't done a lot to help himself to not get in to that situation.

In the Biblical examples where Jesus heals people, they are all examples of where someone has a health issue and it is something that they have not caused themselves.


This is a bit out of line because I can never know what Jesus might say to someone after death, but hopefully it will illustrate a point.

A man lives in a house in a rural area.  There comes a great rain storm and it starts flooding.  The rain is so great that the house floods up to the level of the windows.  He climbs on to the roof.  A helicopter pilot sees him on the roof and hovers above and they drop a rope ladder.  The guy refuses the rescue and says that God will save him.  The helicopter pilots says, please yourself, and flies away.

The rain continues and gets up to the man's knees.  Another helicopter pilot sees him on the roof and hovers above and they drop a rope ladder.  The guy refuses the rescue and says that God will save him.  That helicopter pilots also says, please yourself, and flies away.

The rain continues and gets up to the man's neck.  Another helicopter pilot is flying around rescuing people and sees him on the roof and hovers above and they drop a rope ladder.  The guy refuses the rescue and says that God will save him.  That helicopter pilots also says, please yourself, and flies away.

The guy drowns.

The guy comes before Jesus.  He asks, "Why didn't you save me?"

The reply he gets is, "What do you mean?  I gave you three chances".
Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.