Author Topic: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?  (Read 539 times)

Offline creationliberty

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(UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« on: June 22, 2016, 02:14:10 PM »
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php
This article also exposes Ray Comfort's works-based doctrine which he teaches on the Living Waters website.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2Ti 2:15
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Offline AngelG

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 04:28:53 AM »
Hi Chris - Reading your article on repentance has been helpful to me. In a way I was looking for guidance on guilt when I came across RollingH's post and he mentioned your article on repentance.

Recently when I wake up in the morning, I have been flooded with intense guilt of all my past wicked ways & the harm I caused to others. Remembering God's hands in my life and the way He has protected me and loved me and still does,  I thank Him so much for salvation and even now as I write, I cry about all the wrongs that I did and how much love He has given me and His overwhelming mercy in my life, because I know for a fact without Him I would surely be dead by now.

Having repented of my wicked ways why do I still feel this intense sense of guilt? Is this normal?

Offline creationliberty

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 12:42:47 PM »
After Daniel read the prophesying of Jeremiah for the first time, here's what he did:
And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
-Dan 9:3-6


So as you can see, he was repentant of that which was done in the past, even though he was the elect of God, and a chosen prophet, he was humbled to repentance for the things he and his people had done against God, and if you keep reading, God sent a messenger to him while he prayed to give him more knowledge.

God has told all those who follow Him and seek to do right:
Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
-Isa 51:1

That is, to consider where you came from, what sins you had committed, and what wrongs you were forgiven. If we forget the pit that we were dug from, then we tend to become puffed up, and end up thinking that we are better than those around us.
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
-1Co 11:31-32

If we don't remember what sins we have committed against God, how can we judge our behavior, our feelings, and our tendencies?
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2Ti 2:15
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Offline AngelG

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 03:34:27 AM »
I thank God that I asked this question because as I prayed about it, the shame was overbearing and truly speaking I didn't want to speak to anyone but God about it, but my thoughts were so clouded with pain, I had to seek the truth. So referring to an article sent to me by an online bible study group I subscribe to (please see below link)

[http://www.crosswalkmail.com/ViewMessage.do?m=hbmqqhcfsb&r=ndtdtfpyqqwp&s=jjsqrfbmqsqbnmdthkzczbfnjhhnsvbzrrd&q=1510223100&a=view]

I read the article and referred to the bible looking at the definitions of guilt and condemnation, and as I read your article on repentance and now your response, the pieces are beginning to fall in place. If this is so then I am grateful for it, because I really don't want to fall bcak into my old ways. Then I must ask how does this fall into the 9 fruits of the Holy Spirit Gal 5:22?

Offline creationliberty

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 12:37:49 PM »
I can't really figure out what it is you're trying to ask because you're not really explaining what you mean by what you say. Saying, "What does all this have to do with X verse?" is not really a question unless we know your understanding of the context.

I'm guessing here, which is why I don't like writing all this out, but it seems like you're saying that guilt/shame/repentance is not listed out in Gal 5, therefore, it's not "the fruit of the Spirit." That's like saying, "Pedophilia is not listed out in Gal 5, therefore, it is not a work of the flesh." If Paul had to list out every potential word used for everything good that came from God, and evil that came from the flesh, that'd be the longest chapter in the Bible by a long shot.

I suspected you might have had some corrupt doctrine somewhere, so I checked out the link you sent, and I was right, you've received corrupt doctrine from them. First of all, they rely on the NLT, so I wouldn't be willing to study with them at all.

Second, the place you're getting teaching from is wicked. The parent company who owns Salem is called the Salem Communications Corporation, or Salem Media Group, who have a NASDAQ stock portfolio. (Sounds really "Christian" doesn't it?) They're not only incorporated, but they are one of the primary companies who have led the leavened CCM industry into the evil we have seen it today. The founders of the company were praised by the wicked TIME magazine as "25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America," and so if they're praised by the Devil's magazine, you know they're evil... so how much Biblical understanding do you think you'll get from them?
(Read "What's Wrong With Christian Rock?" here at creationliberty.com for more details.)

Next, they say the very commonly used phrase, "Guilt/Shame does not come from God, it comes from the devil." This is a lie of the devil, and I've covered that in two articles:
The Biblical Understanding of Pride
http://creationliberty.com/articles/pride.php
Wolves in Costume: Rick Warren - The Tongue of a Viper
http://creationliberty.com/articles/warren.php#7

The Bible uses the word "contrite," and this is what it generally means:
contrite (adj): worn, bruised, broken, humbled, sincerely affected by a sense of guilt
(See 'contrite', American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828, retrieved Oct 19, 2017 [webstersdictionary1828.com])

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
-Isa 66:1-2


To say that guilt or shame comes from the Devil is to blaspheme God, which is what Salem is doing. (i.e. Blaspheme is calling the Word of God of the Devil.) Those who reject guilt and shame are rejecting the Gospel:
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
-Romans 3:19
Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.
-Psalm 119:78
But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us.
-Psalm 44:7
But thou hast cast off, and put us to shame; and goest not forth with our armies.
-Psalm 44:9
The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
-Psalm 89:45

There is more in the articles I linked above.

Yet, if you want confidence (which means "faith"), then you need to do what's right. Anyone who wants to be confidence in the Lord, should work to live perfectly.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
-Mat 5:48
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
-Eph 4:22-24

And it's important to study the Word while cleaning out your life:
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Rom 10:17
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2Ti 2:25

When you put away the sin of the flesh, and you walk in righteousness daily, then comes confidence in the Lord to where we do not have to live daily in shame, but it is also important to remember the pit we were dug out of, so that we are not blinded by pride in our own works.

The company you're studying with is teaching a "no shame" doctrine, not because they are sanctified in perfect living in Christ, but because it's a "feel-good" message. If they don't continue to produce a feel-good message, then their stocks won't be worth as much to their investors.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
-1Ti 6:10

« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 12:45:45 PM by creationliberty »
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2Ti 2:15
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Offline AngelG

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 01:45:21 PM »
Hi Chris - My apologies for the confusion I created. The truth is I was not very articulate with what I meant to say, because  of how overwhelmed I felt at the time (analogy of a child sobbing and trying to get words out, but no one really understands what the child is saying, because they keep eating up their words when they sob...sorry I know...but that's the best I could come up with).

I did not mean to insinuate that I should not feel guilty because it wasn't part of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Infact I do agree with your points, especially in reference to what the Word of God says about repentance. With regards to the link sent, I sent it because when I read it, (in hindsight) the solution seemed simply too easy, too convenient, which is why I (and I must admit, I did not think this at the time) I guess I was led to keep seeking for answers about repentance, which I finally found...And praise be to God, you assisted me to the right bible verses. And with prayers I gained a better understanding of what I was feeling, why I was feeling the way I did and more importantly why I could not forget....'less I repeat.

Which leads me to ask you my next question about bible studying. Currently, I study chapter to chapter, however I have a list of things I want biblical answers to. Therefore, how do I study the Word of God as instructed in the book of Isaiah 28:10, so discernment is used in all matters? Knowing where to start, where to refer to in the bible etc.  I'm sorry if this seems like a silly question, but before I came across your website, I often had to use google alongside my bible to find answers and it really isn't the best way.

Offline creationliberty

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 02:32:52 PM »
I don't know what the best way is for everyone, and that's because when I try to answer something or don't understanding something, I write an article about it. I suppose that's how I take notes. So take notes? If you're really trying to understand a passage you don't understand, put a label on it and move on. If everything is here and little and there a little, then you'll find the answer later.

Reading things in the context is key; as well as understanding the definitions of the words used, but the definitions are supposed to be defined by the context, so that's important. I don't know how to teach doing that, other than to provide the weekly audio teachings I've been providing. In those, in our first half, I go through and define and teach by the context, so maybe that will help?
http://creationliberty.com/audio.php
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2Ti 2:15
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Offline AngelG

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 03:13:20 PM »
That indeed will be a great starting point. Thank you for the link :-)

Offline Jeanne

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 03:21:56 PM »
I don't know if this will help or not, but the first thing I would suggest is that, if you haven't done so already, read the Bible straight through at least once so you get an overall view of everything it says. Another thing I've found useful is a Chronological Bible in which passages are written in the order in which they happened in history. A lot of the events in Kings are repeated in Chronicles, so those parallel passages are written side by side. Then you have the prophets and their words scattered in amongst them so that they appear in the correct chronological order. It just helps to see the whole story unfolding as it happened rather than say, reading in the prophets when they say something like 'during the reign of whoever the word of the Lord came to whoever...' and then trying to remember who this king was and what else was happening during his reign.

When trying to study specific topics, I usually first do a keyword search on Biblegateway.com I don't just read the verses listed, though, I at least read the whole chapter so that the context is clear. Sometimes you have to read more than one chapter (maybe the one or two before and/or after) to get the full context of what is being said.

Lastly, if you happen to run across a word that you are completely unfamiliar with and have no idea what it means, I would suggest looking it up in Webster's 1828 Dictionary. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/

The English language was already changing 100 years after the KJV Bible was originally translated so Noah Webster based his definitions of words on what they meant in that Bible.

Offline AngelG

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 02:08:47 AM »
Thanks Jeanne. Where can I source a Chronologic Bible from? I am presuming its KJV?

I tend to use the online Oxford or Cambridge dictionaries when I'm uncertain or do not know the meaning of a word. I must get a hardcopy.

When I saw the verse (Isaiah 28:9-13) that Christopher reiterated in one of his articles (I hope I remember correctly) on reading the entire context to get full meaning, I've started doing this and it helps immensely.

I have bookmarked Biblegateway.com to use appropriately as you have suggested as a reference tool.
WOW! Thank you for your help. I really do appreciate it.

Offline AngelG

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 02:10:40 AM »
...and no I have not read the Bible all the way through.

Offline Jeanne

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 02:48:20 AM »
Amazon has chronological Bibles in several different versions including the KJV. I'm not sure if they have hard copies or not (they might in the UK, but we can only get digital books here in Australia) and I have the Kindle app on my phone so my Bible is always handy no matter where I am.

Offline Masha

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Re: (UPDATE) Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 04:08:20 AM »
I often use reading-schedules to read my daily portion of Gods word. It helps me to keep track in my o, so chaotic life :-)
I have also used schedules to read the Bible in chronological order. You can easily find them online, and check whether they are correct. (Sometimes they skip parts of the Bible)
Then just use your own KJV to read the various verses.
I will attach one as an example.