Hello from a redeemed sinner!

[AbidinginChrist]

Hello Elle and Jeanne Thank you for your messages. They were very kind and I appreciate them:)  I do understand why Tim and Chris questioned me. I wrote a lazy account of the most miraculous thing Ive ever experienced. I deserved to be called out. Honestly, that was the first time Ive ever been dealt with biblically. Even the pastor of the church Where I was going to never asked me about my repentance or my salvation.

 Im very glad that the Lord corrected me. Although It can Sting a little, I would rather be corrected  by the Lord, and my fellow believers, then to be showered in false flattery.

Thank you tech advice Im  looking into buying a laptop.

Thank you again.  Im  looking forward to getting to know everyone.

[anvilhauler]

Hi Melanie

I took interest in watching from the sidelines and was also pleasantly surprised when your replies were quite different from those of many others when they are drawn in to discussion about their conversion experience and they tend to disappear within a short time or get so hostile that they are banned from the forum. 

A welcome to the forum from me too and I hope this is a place where you fit right in and continue to grow with all the rest of us and we have excellent fellowship together.

[heathertaylor]

Hello Melanie
                When I read your intro I noticed at the very end you seemed to have repentance but honestly at first I didn't catch what Timothy and Chris caught in your intro. I am a new christian and learning to exercise discernment between those who are true and those who are blind. As I was reading Timothy and Chris' comments, I then realized just how much I have to learn. It made me realize that there was some concerns as well but knew it was best for me to stay silent in this moment. So I watched from the sidelines along with Kevin (anvilhauler) and have to say, I caught myself holding my breath and standing still and praying for God to help you see. Then waited to see what would happen next. Then when I seen your comment back with realizing why Tim and Chris said what they said, I had relief and I am so glad you are here. Hope you learn more and more in Gods word and in fellowship with True Believers in Christ and continue to have a heart after God.
               I hope you can find a good deal on a lap top. I used to use my smart phone and it was difficult but then found out that I could hot spot from my phone for my lap top and now I am so relieved that I can have a bigger screen and I am able to type better.
              May we learn the Truth together with humbleness and repentance and that we would have the courage to speak the truth with humbleness and boldness to those who speak falsely.

             Scriptures that have come across my mind while writing to you:

Matthew 10:16
King James Version
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2 Timothy 2:15
King James Version
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
               
                                                                             

Stay safe out there on the roads and watch out for those crazy drivers                 

[Shannon]

I  want to ask your Forgiveness. I reread all the posts I realized now I was being examined. I have never had any other person do this. Instead of humbly submitting, I reacted in pride.  Im very sorry. I thought you were being overly critical. but I was the one being unclear.

Hi Melanie, it was so good to read these words, as a few have already stated, that in most cases we do not see those being heavily questioned accept the correction and humbly ask for forgiveness.

I can understand how difficult it would be to type everything out on a phone multiple times, just to have it disappear or cut off. Ellie gave some great tips that I also was going to suggest.

I'm not a truck driver, but do travel by vehicle quite a bit for work. I was wondering if you listen to any teachings while out on the road? If so, have there been any teachings so far that are your favorites? I saw you mentioned the repentance teaching.

The driving and listening to past teachings have been a tremendous blessing for me to be able to learn and work at the same time.

I look forward to getting to know you better on here 

[MeganIA]

Hi Melanie, I am glad to see that you stuck with it! The apostrophes thing is something to get used to. I still miss them and usually have to edit my posts multiple times to get all of it through. You took the questioning with humility which is a rare thing.

I am very familiar with trucking as my dad just retired from being OTR (over the road/long haul) at the beginning of this year. In fact, he trained with a company in Salt Lake when he got back into the industry from another one 20 years ago.

[AbidinginChrist]

Hi Kevin Thank you for your message and your welcome to the forum. I look forward to The fellowship as well.

Heather I cant say thank you enough for praying and hoping for me. That brought tears to my eyes when I read it. Bless you

Shannon hello,  thank you for your reply. Yes I do watch and listen to a lot of Teaching and sermons. I like Paul washer I also like answers in genesis,  Its world history but with a biblical point of view.  Redeemer Bible church I like. If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Hi Megan truck driving is not for everyone!  I was laid off a few years ago,  I had my CDL because I was in safety, so I put it to use. It has not always been easy.  But as Sharon pointed out I have a lot of time to study and listen to the word, that has been a blessing. Thank you for your message.

[anvilhauler]

Shannon hello,  thank you for your reply. Yes I do watch and listen to a lot of Teaching and sermons. I like Paul washer I also like answers in genesis,  Its world history but with a biblical point of view.  Redeemer Bible church I like. If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Hi again Melanie

We have had discussion here in the past about Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis.  Although they look like they might be a good website on the outside they are not quite so squeaky clean and noble on the inside.

You might even like reading the thread we had on the subject

http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=500.msg4300#msg4300

Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis is 501c3 incorporated which means they are effectively a US Government organization and have sold themselves out for money as documented in this article Chris has written and contains the evidence given by Ken Ham himself.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/501c3.php

[Jeanne]

Hi Melanie,

Are you aware that all of Christopher's teachings are available in audio form on the website? These include the first half Bible study that we do each week, which are not included in the YouTube videos. They are also available on SoundCloud.

https://soundcloud.com/clechurchonline

[AbidinginChrist]

I actually havent been watching or sleeping or eating much since this all began. I have been praying and Repenting and seeing things with new eyes.  You have no idea how heavy a burden is until its lifted off. Thank you Lord.

When I began to repent for my pride when dealing with Tim and Chris I could see how I was desperately grasping at any excuse why my testimony wasnt bursting from my heart or  flowing from my lips as it used to. Why did it feel so dampened? I was crying out to the lord help me!

The Lord in his perfect mercy showed me how I was holding Onto unforgiveness and resentment towards that church & pastor that dealt badly with me. I broke and Repented
Then he started to show me the seeds of that incident were planted way before I was spiritually Knee capped by it.

After I had repented in 2018 I never went back to my old life. I was repulsed by it, disgusted. I spent my time reading and listening to the word. And watching a lot of sermons and teaching on YouTube.  (I am thoroughly reevaluating every teacher I expose myself to)
In a way I was content, my heart was filled with love and desire to follow the Lord. I was getting fed by anybody who simply preached out of the Bible. (I did not notice the subtle differences that I am becoming very aware of now. ) But I started longing for fellowship with other believers.

I Began to look for a church.  I wanted one that only taught Bible verse by verse and sing old-fashioned hymns filled with biblical truth. That is exactly what I got.    (Yes, I am Beginning To seeing my folly )

At first everything seemed fine. Although there were clues that it was not. For instance  When I was excitedly trying to talk to the pastor about my repentance and salvation And all of the things I had discovered, I had to chase after him because he kept walking away. A few people did talk to me but mostly I just sat and listened.

I started having trouble with a man. We had talked about the Lord and he said he was a Christian and even repented. However, something was terribly wrong. One minute he would be Praising the Lord and the next terrified and terrorized that he was not saved.  I was very concerned, I privately went to the pastor. His advice was keep praying for him and tell him about the Lord and keep pointing to the Bible. I tried to do that.

He would call me at all hours and get mad if I didnt reply immediately. He started telling me in explicit detail about his sexual sin. I told him he needed to take that to the pastor or another male Christian. He would apologize profusely but then turn around and do it again. I had told him within 20 minutes of meeting him I was not interested in any romantic relationships I only wanted to seek the Lord, he said he wasnt interested either. But when he started pressing me and attempting to lead me into sexual conversations. That

[AbidinginChrist]

Continued it was cut off but I copied it this time!

I started having trouble with a man. We had talked about the Lord and he said he was a Christian and even repented. However, something was terribly wrong. One minute he would be Praising the Lord and the next terrified and terrorized that he was not saved.  I was very concerned, I privately went to the pastor. His advice was keep praying for him and tell him about the Lord and keep pointing to the Bible. I tried to do that.

He would call me at all hours and get mad if I didnt reply immediately. He started telling me in explicit detail about his sexual sin. I told him he needed to take that to the pastor or another male Christian. He would apologize profusely but then turn around and do it again. I had told him within 20 minutes of meeting him I was not interested in any romantic relationships I only wanted to seek the Lord, he said he wasnt interested either. But when he started pressing me and attempting to lead me into sexual conversations. Thats when I  Finally put my foot down. I went back to the pastor and told him everything, he said he would talk to him. The pastor called back and told me he had apologized and seem to think it was finished. But the man had called me soon after angry that I had told the Pastor what he done. Im not sure what happen next but I noticed people quit talking to me. I finally just left upset and confused. what did I do wrong. was I supposed to be more patient? Was I required to let somebody spiritually abuse me?

After my very short conversations and dealing with Chris and Tim I am starting to see some thing that I hadnt seen before.  If that had been a biblical fellowship One that truly followed the Bible, not just the appearance of it. that man wouldnt even have gotten through the gate.

That man was exhibiting worldly sorrow leading to death, not godly sorrow that leads to repentance and eternal life.

Im also quite concerned about the pastor. He didnt handle anything rightly.  He didnt Shepherd and protect me. He shouldve taken over and dealt with it himself.   

I also see I didnt do what the Bible said I didnt examine people to see if they were truly in the faith (even though I thought I did)

I am humbly beginning to see discernment  is not being able to spot rank heresy.
It is the subtle lies. The Almost but not quite right. I am in need of this discernment.

I am praying, crying out Father help me!

I am so thankful to the Lord for this ministry and your fellowship. Thank you so much for not letting up on me. For making me examine myself, for giving me the Biblical tools to do it.

All honor and glory to The Leading for leading me to you all.

[anvilhauler]

The good thing here at CLE is that no-one is going to be lying to you or "taking you for a ride".  It is regularly brought to everyone's attention that each of us must be reading and studying the word of God for ourselves and so we base all of our faith and practices on the word of God and not something that someone told us. 

Hence all matters are fully open for discussion and at times you will see Chris publish retractions of something he has taught in error and all of us are pleased with full unity that we have come to know and understand something more fully than we did before. 

We're all in the same boat and all of us are just as you were with knowing something was wrong and only over time having the veils of deception removed from our eyes and being able to see things more correctly as they truly are.  Back in Jesus' time they were called pharisees but today they are called pastors, but they are the same fake positions with alterior motives of serving themselves and extracting money from people so they don't have to work for a living or so much as lift a finger in helping others when difficulties come along. 

[AbidinginChrist]

I told you I was reevaluating teachers . I decided to start with John MacArthur. The church I was going to really love him .everything they used was MacArthur. Study notes and commentaries.

So I went to his book list  to see if he had One titled some thing like

[AbidinginChrist]

Continued

I went to his book list to see if he had a book entitled repentance The way to salvation or something like that. Nope He didnt even have one with repentance in the title

So I went to YouTube and looked up his sermons about salvation. I found one in titled the blueprint to being born again. I thought if he Preaches repentance, it will be in here.

Nope! He preached that being boring again was from above. Meaning that you can only be born again by God. I completely agree. But then he circled it around to election. Nothing about repentance. He only mentioned repentance twice like an afterthought, something you did after you were saved.

He didnt mention anything about your heart being prepared to receive Christ. Nothing about being broken, Shattered before the lord.

[Ellie]

The Lord in his perfect mercy showed me how I was holding Onto unforgiveness and resentment towards that church & pastor that dealt badly with me. I broke and Repented
Then he started to show me the seeds of that incident were planted way before I was spiritually Knee capped by it.

Hi Melanie, I wanted to respond to this part of your post. I'll share a bible verse and explain why I am pointing it out.

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. (Luke 17:3-4)

Did your pastor repent? If he did, then you should forgive him. If he did not, you are not required to forgive him. That doesn't mean that you harbor anger and resentment in your heart against him, but God doesn't require us to forgive unrepentant sin committed against us.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: (Ephesians 4:26)

This is a concept that is relatively new to me, as well. But it makes a whole lot of sense when you read that verse closely and consider the fact that God Himself is not going to forgive the impenitent man, but He does give grace to those who are humbled to repentance and believe on Christ.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3)

[AbidinginChrist]

Hi Elissa, thank you for your post! I agree with you my forgiveness will not absolve him of his sin. My forgiveness does not make him right with the Lord. I suspect he has much bigger problems, Lord help him. But, I dont believe that means Im not required to forgive.

The Bible says The Bible says

[AbidinginChrist]

Continued  I need to learn how to do scripture without quotes

 Whenever you stand praying, If you have anything against anyone, forgive them, That your father in heaven may forgive You and your trespasses  mark 11:25

The Lords prayer says to ask, forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

How can I hold resentment towards anybody, when I have been forgiven of so very much?

Im not trying to argue with you,  I see your point. We dont need to be doormats   If I was in that situation again I would put a stop to it well before it got to that point. You all have shown me that!

[AbidinginChrist]

I want to make this point clear.

The lesson the Lord showed me with my repentance is, if I had been looking for a church that not only taught the Bible verse by verse and sang hymns ( all good things) but, One that had a right understanding of salvation. Godly sorrow that brings brokenness That leads to forgiveness and salvation in Christ. I would never have been in that situation to begin with.

Im starting to see The spiritual knee capping was allowed by the Lord. How else was he supposed to stop me from charging a ahead in the WRONG direction?  I was only in that church for six months, Without the correction I couldve been in there for years.

Also I am In the middle of Chris teaching Of 501c3. Its clear,  I was looking in all the wrong places for a biblical fellowship. What can I say? Thankfully being smart is not a requirement of belonging to the Lord! In fact I am rejoicing in it!

[Ellie]

Hi Melanie,

I have been thinking about your response and about what I should say back to you, so I apologize for taking a couple of days. I wanted to send you these verses and encourage you to possibly look at the fullness of the doctrine of forgiveness, with this in mind:

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:9-10)

The fullness of the doctrines of God are found scattered through the scriptures and in order to have a complete understanding of them, we take the verses in context and study where they are found throughout the entirety of the bible. I have been learning this recently and it has been very helpful in understanding things. I don't think I have a full understanding of this yet by any means, but I just wanted to share that in hopes that it would be beneficial to you.

I will not deny what Mark 11:25 says:
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

So, we know that God will forgive us only if we repent. But if we were to only take this verse by itself without any of the other things we know about God's forgiveness, we might assume that in order to be forgiven by God we have to do a work of going around and forgiving everyone that has wronged us. But of course, that isn't how we are forgiven by God--rather, we repent to God and believe on Christ, and He gives us a heart that is humbled and willing to forgive those who come to us in the same manner. So knowing that, we can see that it is important to take a look at other verses in order to know the fullness about the topic of forgiveness.

Those other verses I shared previously are just more "pieces to the puzzle" when understanding the fullness of the doctrine (along with Mark 11:25) if that makes sense. God never forgives anyone who does not repent, and we aren't going to be required to do more than God Himself is willing to do (I think Chris said that somewhere in a teaching... not sure exactly which one). But if someone sins against us and they do repent, God absolutely expects us to forgive them as He was merciful to us when we came to Him in grief and sorrow over our sins toward Him--so of course, the Holy Spirit will prompt us to be merciful to those who come to us in grief and godly sorrow. God does not despise a broken and contrite spirit (see verse below), so we are never to despise them either. We are supposed to resemble Christ in His great mercy, in that way.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (Psalm 51:17)

I hope this explains it a little better. I pray that God would give us both a better understanding of the matter. I admire your compassion and desire to let go of any hard feelings towards the pastor you mentioned. I will not tell you that you are not allowed to forgive someone even if they do not repent, because I believe that is within your liberty to do so, I was just pointing out that it is not a requirement to do so without repentance and attempting to show you that through the scriptures.

If anyone sees that I am in error I would like to know or if someone has anything else to add about the subject then that is welcomed. I hope I explained it well enough.

What can I say? Thankfully being smart is not a requirement of belonging to the Lord! In fact I am rejoicing in it!

Hahaha. This made me laugh because I have felt a similar way. I have been prideful in believing that I am smart... but I really know nothing and anything I've learned has only been because God has allowed it. Praise God for that.

[heathertaylor]

Melanie,
I am in agreeance with Ellie. But just one addition to the comment.
The words of Jesus himself when he was hanging on the cross and dieing for all mankind and even those who treated him mockingly and horrible and with disgust,(even for the rapists, murderers, adulterers and abusers etc...) He was dieing for them and their sins that they might be saved and the words he asked of His Father in heaven was ,"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." He asked God His Father to extend forgiveness to them just like he does even now while he is at the right hand of God the Father  making intercession for us. God is long suffering with his people. You could ask God to be with the "pastor" and that the Holy Spirit would bring conviction to him for his error in the word and ask that God would save his soul because Jesus died for all.

But if that man came up to you personally and said ,"you need to forgive me" when he didn't truly have sorrow for his wrong doing. You would probably need to ask , "have you repented of your sins?" If he shows that he has NOT, then you would not need to say, " I forgive you" because if you said you forgave him.. It would make him think that he is extended grace with a proud and unrepentant heart. It will make him think he is justified to continue in his sin and continue to do wrong. James 4:6 says that God resisteth the proud but gives grace to the humble." Now if this man or any trespasser comes to you and is humbled in repentance for the wrong against you and asks for your forgiveness then you graciously extend him forgiveness.

(I know this is a quite a bit of scripture below and the scripture I am referring to is at the end but think it wise to read all that is around the scripture that is referenced.)

Matthew 18:15-22
King James Version
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

If there is repentance. Extend forgiveness. If there isn't ask God to convict them to repentance for their wrong. We do not want anyone to perish. Praying for the unrepentant will help us to see them through God's eyes and it helps us to not become bitter. When you have more trespasses in the future (because you will) ask God to help Prepare you now for those moments. Ask him to help you to have compassion toward those who hurt you. And to not have hate in your heart or resentment toward them. Because this is murder in your heart toward them.

Matthew 5:43-44
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

I hope this helps. And if anything was said that doesn't line up with scripture. Please correct my error

[Jeanne]

I think a good example of all of this is David. He had every right to be angry with Saul for persecuting him and to hold unforgiveness in his heart towards him, yet he just turned it all over to the Lord and asked God to deal with Saul. David was then able to still show charity towards Saul in not retaliating for what was being done to him, which he was fully capable of doing. Twice, David had the opportunity to kill Saul but refused to do it because Saul was still God's anointed.