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162
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p23
« on: November 01, 2021, 04:52:09 PM »163
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p22
« on: October 25, 2021, 12:55:11 PM »164
Wild Emails @ CLE / Trying to Promote Himself, and Lying About It
« on: October 25, 2021, 12:12:28 PM »
This one was a bit comical. That's why I'm posting this; I thought you all might enjoy it.
DARRYL FROM MINNESOTA (OCT 25, 2021):
Dear Sir: I have developed an approx. 5000 plus word article concerning our God-given mental faculties! It involves a neurosurgeon performing an actual brain surgical procedure on an epileptic patient, whereby he also evaluated how our mental faculties actually work! His research showed that we do have a nonmaterial mind//material brain interaction system! Very very credible and I see you disagree with Psychology also concerning our mental problems of life! ( Which I also do) Please email me as if you may be interested reviewing my article! I do have some Creation ministries with my article on their websites also! Take care in the Lord, Darryl
No, I'm not interested. I mean, I wrote an almost 400-page book on the subject, and I have other books for different topics I'm working on right now, so I don't know why you thought I would interested in it. Are you just trying to promote yourself? It sounds like it. That's not what my ministry is for, nor is that what I was called to do for the Lord Jesus Christ. I thought I would do you the courtesy of being straight-forward so we don't waste each others' time. Have a great day. *detective emoji*
Dear Sir: I received your reply to my request and why are you jumping to conclusions about me when you do not know anything about me and my motivation? If I was trying to be what you say- I certainly would not go to all the trouble and also would be expecting to profit from my article! My hope is to give credence to Christ's creation of mankind, in particular, as to how we communicate with Him. Also if you have already published a book on the subject--I was not aware? Please do not judge people so quickly and of course a person trying to get an article published must show why it is credible, which may imply what you may consider being pushy?? Take care in the Lord, Darryl
Three points:
1. So you question my conclusion (i.e. to cast doubt on it), but then you do not offer any reasoning contrary to that conclusion. That verifies that I hit the nail on the head, and now you're trying to stand on pretense to save face. That alone means I am cautious of you.
2. Just because you're not selling something (as far as I know) doesn't mean you're not trying to promote yourself. Promotion is not exclusive to sales. That excuse will fool some people, but not me, and those who are trying to promote themselves are exactly the kind of strangers who "go to all the trouble" to write these kinds of quick, impersonal letters to me. I've been working in this ministry for over 12 years now; you think you're the first person who's tried this with me?
3. You were not aware that I published a book on the matter (which is free-to-read on my website), which means you did not even bother to take a few minutes to check out what I'm teaching. That means you don't even know if we agree on the Gospel of Salvation, which is FAR more important, and so that's just flat-out laziness on your part. I'll take a guess here: You saw some thumbnail for one of my videos on some social media, read the title (i.e. Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil), jumped to conclusions about what I do and teach (which you hypocritically accused me of doing), and wrote to me without checking out any details first.
That sound about right?
Like I said, I'm not interested, and I definitely do not like working with people who are not going to at least show me the courtesy of being honest with me. Again, I hope you have a great day. *detective emoji*
Hello again, I have never met someone as coarse as you seem to be regarding your judgment of mankind! There is no pretense either as you are so sure about!! Of course, underlying thoughts sometime creep in that are not Christ-like in any believer’s life. My situation concerning writing an article stems from a situation way back in my earlier life, and that is the reason why I have spent so much time with this subject! You again appear to be a the final judge, whether you believe it or not! Certainly I am not perfect and only with God’s grace am I even alive today. Concerning checking out your website, I did see enough to be convinced that you are on the right track concerning psychology,etc., as that is one of my main grievances, which is against modern day counseling theory and practice. Are your rough edges wise or not—I really do not know? ( possibly yes and maybe no?) I get your message anyway, which basically is good, but is there not a more kindly way of putting it?? Take care in the Lord, Darryl Sletten PS- Concerning salvation, I believe according to what I did notice on your website that you are a saved person, as the subjects, "and how you covered them”, are only covered by a believer in Christ! Also no further discussion between us is necessary, as I did learn to be more careful concerning motivations for whatever project I may be trying to accomplish in the Lord.
END OF DISCUSSION
This one is not rocket science. I have receive so many of these types of letters over the years. What you need to ask yourself (from your own perspective) is this: Why would a stranger write any of you out of the blue, tell you they have a document they wrote, and ask you if you are interested in it?
Maybe we could rephrase that. Ask yourself this: How many reasons can you think of that YOU would write a complete stranger and ask them if they are interested in reading a document you wrote? Darryl thinks he's being REALLY smooth, but it is like watching a five-year-old try to excuse his way out of admitting he took a cookie from the cookie jar.
I would have had no problem with this if he had just been honest and straight-forward with me. So many people are scared to just come out and declare their real intentions. I have no problem with someone speaking the truth about their intentions, I only have a problem when they are caught hiding their true intentions, and then try to convince you of a more noble intention after the fact. (Because, as I've said before, the road to hell is paved with those things.)
The amazing thing to me was that this guy did not spend ten seconds looking into what I teach on the subject of psychology (let alone what I teach on the Gospel of Salvation), and yet, he expected me to be fully invested in reading his 5,000-word document. It's interesting to note that our email exchange alone was about 10% of the length of his essay. The fact that he didn't even know that I had written a book on the subject was a major red flag that he only wrote me to promote himself because I guarantee that the moment he read that, he probably felt embarrassed, and now that I think about it, perhaps I should have asked him to send me the document just so I could see it because I would suspect it was lazily written.
There's not much chance of that now because he's already entered "HOW DARE YOU!" mode. You can clearly see that from the "how dare you judge me!" final response he gave. He tells me he's not standing on pretense, but he went from friendly to enemies in a matter of two short exchanges this morning, and he thinks he's really believable.
My situation concerning writing an article stems from a situation way back in my earlier life, and that is the reason why I have spent so much time with this subject!
So what he did here was attempt to try and make me feel bad for what I said to him, implying that he only wanted to send me his document because of his tragic history. If that was the case, he would have said so because I have received letters from people like that, and they do not communicate the way this man does. No, he wanted to promote himself, and now he's trying to offer up something to persuade me that this was not the case. Frankly, his history with psychology had nothing to do with what we talked about, and I guess he thinks that if he struggled with something a long time ago, that means he is absolutely not trying to promote himself.
Concerning checking out your website, I did see enough to be convinced that you are on the right track concerning psychology
But he didn't know I had a book? How did he check it out? What else did he look at? You might say to yourselves, "maybe he listened to one of your audio teachings," but at the beginning of each one, I point to the book on the website. Frankly, I think he's lying somewhere, I can't figure out where it is. (Notice that when I said he probably just saw a thumbnail, he didn't deny it.)
PS- Concerning salvation, I believe according to what I did notice on your website that you are a saved person, as the subjects, "and how you covered them”, are only covered by a believer in Christ! Also no further discussion between us is necessary, as I did learn to be more careful concerning motivations for whatever project I may be trying to accomplish in the Lord.
I'm baffled on this one. I don't understand that first sentence. Trying to interpret this, he believes what he noticed that I am saved as I covered salvation is only covered by believers? I can't make sense of that.
The "no further discussion" comment means "don't talk to me anymore." That's no problem because I had no intention of replying to him any further after my second letter. I knew he was going to be upset, but I wanted to make things clear for him so he didn't waste his time.
However, his last comment was very interesting if you read it carefully. He said he learned to be more careful concerning motivations for what he's doing. Why would he have to be more careful concerning his motivations if I was wrong about what I told him he was doing?
Food for thought.
DARRYL FROM MINNESOTA (OCT 25, 2021):
Dear Sir: I have developed an approx. 5000 plus word article concerning our God-given mental faculties! It involves a neurosurgeon performing an actual brain surgical procedure on an epileptic patient, whereby he also evaluated how our mental faculties actually work! His research showed that we do have a nonmaterial mind//material brain interaction system! Very very credible and I see you disagree with Psychology also concerning our mental problems of life! ( Which I also do) Please email me as if you may be interested reviewing my article! I do have some Creation ministries with my article on their websites also! Take care in the Lord, Darryl
No, I'm not interested. I mean, I wrote an almost 400-page book on the subject, and I have other books for different topics I'm working on right now, so I don't know why you thought I would interested in it. Are you just trying to promote yourself? It sounds like it. That's not what my ministry is for, nor is that what I was called to do for the Lord Jesus Christ. I thought I would do you the courtesy of being straight-forward so we don't waste each others' time. Have a great day. *detective emoji*
Dear Sir: I received your reply to my request and why are you jumping to conclusions about me when you do not know anything about me and my motivation? If I was trying to be what you say- I certainly would not go to all the trouble and also would be expecting to profit from my article! My hope is to give credence to Christ's creation of mankind, in particular, as to how we communicate with Him. Also if you have already published a book on the subject--I was not aware? Please do not judge people so quickly and of course a person trying to get an article published must show why it is credible, which may imply what you may consider being pushy?? Take care in the Lord, Darryl
Three points:
1. So you question my conclusion (i.e. to cast doubt on it), but then you do not offer any reasoning contrary to that conclusion. That verifies that I hit the nail on the head, and now you're trying to stand on pretense to save face. That alone means I am cautious of you.
2. Just because you're not selling something (as far as I know) doesn't mean you're not trying to promote yourself. Promotion is not exclusive to sales. That excuse will fool some people, but not me, and those who are trying to promote themselves are exactly the kind of strangers who "go to all the trouble" to write these kinds of quick, impersonal letters to me. I've been working in this ministry for over 12 years now; you think you're the first person who's tried this with me?
3. You were not aware that I published a book on the matter (which is free-to-read on my website), which means you did not even bother to take a few minutes to check out what I'm teaching. That means you don't even know if we agree on the Gospel of Salvation, which is FAR more important, and so that's just flat-out laziness on your part. I'll take a guess here: You saw some thumbnail for one of my videos on some social media, read the title (i.e. Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil), jumped to conclusions about what I do and teach (which you hypocritically accused me of doing), and wrote to me without checking out any details first.
That sound about right?
Like I said, I'm not interested, and I definitely do not like working with people who are not going to at least show me the courtesy of being honest with me. Again, I hope you have a great day. *detective emoji*
Hello again, I have never met someone as coarse as you seem to be regarding your judgment of mankind! There is no pretense either as you are so sure about!! Of course, underlying thoughts sometime creep in that are not Christ-like in any believer’s life. My situation concerning writing an article stems from a situation way back in my earlier life, and that is the reason why I have spent so much time with this subject! You again appear to be a the final judge, whether you believe it or not! Certainly I am not perfect and only with God’s grace am I even alive today. Concerning checking out your website, I did see enough to be convinced that you are on the right track concerning psychology,etc., as that is one of my main grievances, which is against modern day counseling theory and practice. Are your rough edges wise or not—I really do not know? ( possibly yes and maybe no?) I get your message anyway, which basically is good, but is there not a more kindly way of putting it?? Take care in the Lord, Darryl Sletten PS- Concerning salvation, I believe according to what I did notice on your website that you are a saved person, as the subjects, "and how you covered them”, are only covered by a believer in Christ! Also no further discussion between us is necessary, as I did learn to be more careful concerning motivations for whatever project I may be trying to accomplish in the Lord.
END OF DISCUSSION
This one is not rocket science. I have receive so many of these types of letters over the years. What you need to ask yourself (from your own perspective) is this: Why would a stranger write any of you out of the blue, tell you they have a document they wrote, and ask you if you are interested in it?
Maybe we could rephrase that. Ask yourself this: How many reasons can you think of that YOU would write a complete stranger and ask them if they are interested in reading a document you wrote? Darryl thinks he's being REALLY smooth, but it is like watching a five-year-old try to excuse his way out of admitting he took a cookie from the cookie jar.
I would have had no problem with this if he had just been honest and straight-forward with me. So many people are scared to just come out and declare their real intentions. I have no problem with someone speaking the truth about their intentions, I only have a problem when they are caught hiding their true intentions, and then try to convince you of a more noble intention after the fact. (Because, as I've said before, the road to hell is paved with those things.)
The amazing thing to me was that this guy did not spend ten seconds looking into what I teach on the subject of psychology (let alone what I teach on the Gospel of Salvation), and yet, he expected me to be fully invested in reading his 5,000-word document. It's interesting to note that our email exchange alone was about 10% of the length of his essay. The fact that he didn't even know that I had written a book on the subject was a major red flag that he only wrote me to promote himself because I guarantee that the moment he read that, he probably felt embarrassed, and now that I think about it, perhaps I should have asked him to send me the document just so I could see it because I would suspect it was lazily written.
There's not much chance of that now because he's already entered "HOW DARE YOU!" mode. You can clearly see that from the "how dare you judge me!" final response he gave. He tells me he's not standing on pretense, but he went from friendly to enemies in a matter of two short exchanges this morning, and he thinks he's really believable.
My situation concerning writing an article stems from a situation way back in my earlier life, and that is the reason why I have spent so much time with this subject!
So what he did here was attempt to try and make me feel bad for what I said to him, implying that he only wanted to send me his document because of his tragic history. If that was the case, he would have said so because I have received letters from people like that, and they do not communicate the way this man does. No, he wanted to promote himself, and now he's trying to offer up something to persuade me that this was not the case. Frankly, his history with psychology had nothing to do with what we talked about, and I guess he thinks that if he struggled with something a long time ago, that means he is absolutely not trying to promote himself.
Concerning checking out your website, I did see enough to be convinced that you are on the right track concerning psychology
But he didn't know I had a book? How did he check it out? What else did he look at? You might say to yourselves, "maybe he listened to one of your audio teachings," but at the beginning of each one, I point to the book on the website. Frankly, I think he's lying somewhere, I can't figure out where it is. (Notice that when I said he probably just saw a thumbnail, he didn't deny it.)
PS- Concerning salvation, I believe according to what I did notice on your website that you are a saved person, as the subjects, "and how you covered them”, are only covered by a believer in Christ! Also no further discussion between us is necessary, as I did learn to be more careful concerning motivations for whatever project I may be trying to accomplish in the Lord.
I'm baffled on this one. I don't understand that first sentence. Trying to interpret this, he believes what he noticed that I am saved as I covered salvation is only covered by believers? I can't make sense of that.
The "no further discussion" comment means "don't talk to me anymore." That's no problem because I had no intention of replying to him any further after my second letter. I knew he was going to be upset, but I wanted to make things clear for him so he didn't waste his time.
However, his last comment was very interesting if you read it carefully. He said he learned to be more careful concerning motivations for what he's doing. Why would he have to be more careful concerning his motivations if I was wrong about what I told him he was doing?
Food for thought.
165
General Discussion / Looking for a video... Could Use Some Help
« on: October 19, 2021, 02:45:23 PM »
I am looking for a video that our church listened to and discussed over Skype about three years ago. It was discussion we had after Bible study was over, so it was not recorded. It would take me far too long to try and find this video, but I could really use it for a book I'm working on right now, if anyone wants to try and hunt it down.
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=677.msg5499#msg5499
This thread gives a little detail on it, and it the video in question was a Mike Hoggard video on the subject of Christmas, and that he taught that Jesus ought to be worshiped as a sun god. If anyone wants to hunt around for that video and can get it to me, I would be grateful.
The only lead I can give you is that I think the background was Hoggard sitting at a news-like desk with a monitor behind him, and the background was a bunch of blue squares... and that is, I THINK it was that background. I'm not entire sure because this was years ago.
DISCLAIMER:
Do not send me a two hour video (if you have not looked over it yet) and ask me if that's the video in question. I would not know unless I listened to the whole thing. If I had time to sit around and listen to a bunch of his videos, then I would do that myself. That's part of the research process, listening to the subject matter in question and finding the right information. I have to say this because, many times in the past, if I have asked for help on these matters, I get lazy people who type some stuff into a search engine and just send me the search engine results (as if I don't have the capability or understanding to do that myself).
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=677.msg5499#msg5499
This thread gives a little detail on it, and it the video in question was a Mike Hoggard video on the subject of Christmas, and that he taught that Jesus ought to be worshiped as a sun god. If anyone wants to hunt around for that video and can get it to me, I would be grateful.
The only lead I can give you is that I think the background was Hoggard sitting at a news-like desk with a monitor behind him, and the background was a bunch of blue squares... and that is, I THINK it was that background. I'm not entire sure because this was years ago.
DISCLAIMER:
Do not send me a two hour video (if you have not looked over it yet) and ask me if that's the video in question. I would not know unless I listened to the whole thing. If I had time to sit around and listen to a bunch of his videos, then I would do that myself. That's part of the research process, listening to the subject matter in question and finding the right information. I have to say this because, many times in the past, if I have asked for help on these matters, I get lazy people who type some stuff into a search engine and just send me the search engine results (as if I don't have the capability or understanding to do that myself).
166
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p21
« on: October 18, 2021, 05:14:23 PM »167
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p20
« on: October 11, 2021, 04:36:30 PM »168
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p19
« on: October 04, 2021, 05:23:49 PM »169
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p18
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:53:59 PM »170
Wild Emails @ CLE / Telegram Chat Full of Blind Churchgoers
« on: September 23, 2021, 04:19:15 PM »
In a Telegram chatroom, that is full of churchgoers, a man named Craig posted the following:
This whole tradegy has converted me from 'atheist' to born again Christian. The world is witnessing proof that the Holy Bible is true. If you cannot see that yet, you soon will.
The next couple of hundreds comments were all "Amen!" and "Praise Jesus!" -- you know, the typically church-ianity phrases. And yet, not one person addressed the Biblical problem. So I did.
If this whole tragedy is what "converted" you to Jesus Christ, then you are NOT born again in Jesus Christ. It's shocking how many people here seem to not understand the basics of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is NOT how the Bible says a man is born again.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
-Gal 3:23-25
It is the hearing of the law of God which brings a man to repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow) of his sin, in which he acknowledges the truth of this own corruption, and then cries out to the Lord Jesus Christ to save him from his own wickedness. You don't gain eternal life because you felt bad over a tragedy and decided to change your mind on some political issues; that is NOT Gospel of Jesus Christ, and you all should be ashamed that you do not understand this.
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
-Mat 13:23
It's amazing how many people here do not understand the Gospel. I wish I could give a link here, but I can't, so go to my website creationliberty * com and search the keyword 'million'. There is a short book (free-to-read) I wrote called Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. You need to understand what Christ said, that MANY (not few) would come to Him on the day of judgment, claiming they served Him, but He will turn them away to everlasting fire; this is the sermon on the mount:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
I have to write out my website that way because links get shadow banned. Soon after, a "Karen" showed up with the name Debbie, and responded:
How do YOU know that Craig and many others DIDN'T examine themselves when they confessed their sin of an unrepentant heart and disbelief in Jesus?? Please don't beat up our young-in-the faith Christian brothers/sisters because they didn't write a novel about their salvation experience. Allow The Holy Spirit to convince, convict, challenge and change them, please. You're giving believers a black eye by being so judgemental and dogmatic when you don't know another's heart.
To which, I responded:
Did you read what was said? Did he say he came to Jesus Christ because of his sin? No, that is not what was originally posted. Did you see how I used the Scripture to show you the problem? You flat-out ignored (i.e. denied) how the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, says that a man comes to Christ.
I look to the Lord God for instruction on how a man is saved, not public opinion. Where do you look? Apparently, you do not look to Jesus Christ because you hate righteous judgement:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
-John 7:24
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
-1Co 2:15
Do you not realize that the word 'judge' means to discern between truth and lies? If you do not want people here distinguishing between truth and falsehood, the you are in the wrong place, and you have no business calling yourself a "Christian."
judge (v): to compare facts or ideas, and perceive their agreement or disagreement, and thus to distinguish truth from falsehood
In your hypocrisy, you accused me of being "judgmental," and yet, you decided to judge me and determine (in unrightousness) what is in my heart. We who are born again in Christ are called to judge righteous judgment. You say that I cannot know what is in another man's heart, and that, once again, proves that you do not follow Jesus Christ because He said that we can:
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18
I want that young man to hear the truth of God's Word, but you obviously don't care about his soul. At least I care enough about him, and about you, to tell you the truth, but everyone here (including you Debbie) is blocking truth from being seen with your rhetoric. Kinda' sounds familiar doesn't it? It's how someone can present evidence of a matter, and yet, we see a mass of people who won't listen to reason?
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
-Isa 1:18
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
-Isa 5:20
Go to creationliberty * com and keyword search 'million' to read Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. I know people here hate me for saying these things, but that's because they hate Jesus Christ first, so if you claim to follow Him, then hear His warning:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
END OF DISCUSSION... so far.
This is why I'm telling people that I see an even greater enemy arising after this so-called "Great Awakening," which I think from a spiritual perspective is going to be a Great Darkness that is going to fall on this nation like we have never seen before. How long before it takes root in the U.S., I don't know, but we need to keep an eye out for the danger because these churchgoers will not hear God's Word.
This whole tradegy has converted me from 'atheist' to born again Christian. The world is witnessing proof that the Holy Bible is true. If you cannot see that yet, you soon will.
The next couple of hundreds comments were all "Amen!" and "Praise Jesus!" -- you know, the typically church-ianity phrases. And yet, not one person addressed the Biblical problem. So I did.
If this whole tragedy is what "converted" you to Jesus Christ, then you are NOT born again in Jesus Christ. It's shocking how many people here seem to not understand the basics of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is NOT how the Bible says a man is born again.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
-Gal 3:23-25
It is the hearing of the law of God which brings a man to repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow) of his sin, in which he acknowledges the truth of this own corruption, and then cries out to the Lord Jesus Christ to save him from his own wickedness. You don't gain eternal life because you felt bad over a tragedy and decided to change your mind on some political issues; that is NOT Gospel of Jesus Christ, and you all should be ashamed that you do not understand this.
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
-Mat 13:23
It's amazing how many people here do not understand the Gospel. I wish I could give a link here, but I can't, so go to my website creationliberty * com and search the keyword 'million'. There is a short book (free-to-read) I wrote called Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. You need to understand what Christ said, that MANY (not few) would come to Him on the day of judgment, claiming they served Him, but He will turn them away to everlasting fire; this is the sermon on the mount:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
I have to write out my website that way because links get shadow banned. Soon after, a "Karen" showed up with the name Debbie, and responded:
How do YOU know that Craig and many others DIDN'T examine themselves when they confessed their sin of an unrepentant heart and disbelief in Jesus?? Please don't beat up our young-in-the faith Christian brothers/sisters because they didn't write a novel about their salvation experience. Allow The Holy Spirit to convince, convict, challenge and change them, please. You're giving believers a black eye by being so judgemental and dogmatic when you don't know another's heart.
To which, I responded:
Did you read what was said? Did he say he came to Jesus Christ because of his sin? No, that is not what was originally posted. Did you see how I used the Scripture to show you the problem? You flat-out ignored (i.e. denied) how the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, says that a man comes to Christ.
I look to the Lord God for instruction on how a man is saved, not public opinion. Where do you look? Apparently, you do not look to Jesus Christ because you hate righteous judgement:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
-John 7:24
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
-1Co 2:15
Do you not realize that the word 'judge' means to discern between truth and lies? If you do not want people here distinguishing between truth and falsehood, the you are in the wrong place, and you have no business calling yourself a "Christian."
judge (v): to compare facts or ideas, and perceive their agreement or disagreement, and thus to distinguish truth from falsehood
In your hypocrisy, you accused me of being "judgmental," and yet, you decided to judge me and determine (in unrightousness) what is in my heart. We who are born again in Christ are called to judge righteous judgment. You say that I cannot know what is in another man's heart, and that, once again, proves that you do not follow Jesus Christ because He said that we can:
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18
I want that young man to hear the truth of God's Word, but you obviously don't care about his soul. At least I care enough about him, and about you, to tell you the truth, but everyone here (including you Debbie) is blocking truth from being seen with your rhetoric. Kinda' sounds familiar doesn't it? It's how someone can present evidence of a matter, and yet, we see a mass of people who won't listen to reason?
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
-Isa 1:18
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
-Isa 5:20
Go to creationliberty * com and keyword search 'million' to read Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. I know people here hate me for saying these things, but that's because they hate Jesus Christ first, so if you claim to follow Him, then hear His warning:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
END OF DISCUSSION... so far.
This is why I'm telling people that I see an even greater enemy arising after this so-called "Great Awakening," which I think from a spiritual perspective is going to be a Great Darkness that is going to fall on this nation like we have never seen before. How long before it takes root in the U.S., I don't know, but we need to keep an eye out for the danger because these churchgoers will not hear God's Word.
171
What's New @ CLE / (BOOK PUBLISHED) Corruptions of Christianity: Seventh-day Adventism
« on: September 22, 2021, 11:21:30 AM »
Corruptions of Christianity: Seventh-Day Adventism is now available to purchase in paperback and Kindle.
Click the following link to get more details:
http://creationliberty.com/store.php#religionadvent
Paperback: $35
Kindle: $23
And, as always, it is free-to-read here at creationliberty.com.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/religionadvent.php
I understand that some of you will hate the fact that I have published this on Amazon's site, knowing that they are a deep state company, and I share the same sentiments. However, I cannot simply switch to another publisher right now for MANY reasons. If you do not understand those reasons, I would encourage you to write a full-length book that is hundreds of pages long with complete research and references, format it and self-publish it (without any staff to do it for you), and then you can have a discussion with me about how you would be able to handle transferring six books to a new platform; let me know when you get that done, and we'll talk about it.
Click the following link to get more details:
http://creationliberty.com/store.php#religionadvent
Paperback: $35
Kindle: $23
And, as always, it is free-to-read here at creationliberty.com.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/religionadvent.php
I understand that some of you will hate the fact that I have published this on Amazon's site, knowing that they are a deep state company, and I share the same sentiments. However, I cannot simply switch to another publisher right now for MANY reasons. If you do not understand those reasons, I would encourage you to write a full-length book that is hundreds of pages long with complete research and references, format it and self-publish it (without any staff to do it for you), and then you can have a discussion with me about how you would be able to handle transferring six books to a new platform; let me know when you get that done, and we'll talk about it.
172
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p17
« on: September 20, 2021, 05:28:35 PM »173
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p16
« on: September 13, 2021, 12:58:51 PM »174
Wild Emails @ CLE / Scientist Turned Preacher of Works-Doctrine
« on: September 09, 2021, 08:08:56 PM »
Here are some preliminary links you can look at if you want to know what I found when I searched for this man. The following is his home church link:
https://www.housechurchconnect.com/places/united-states/indiana/south-bend/church/michiana-home-christian-fellowship/
It says:
We are a small group of Christians meeting in homes on Sunday mornings at 10:30. We are a new non-501c3 house Christian church that has been meeting since our old churches shut down due to the coronavirus panic and plan to continue even if things return to normal. Gods people meeting in worship is essential! Every meeting, we sing hymns with piano, have group prayer, hold communion, bible teaching and a fellowship meal. Everyone is welcome to participate. We do not collect a tithe, sometimes we may collect for an offering for a missionary or for the poor. Key verses illustrating what we believe: John 3:3, Matthew 10:22, Matthew 28:19, Matthew 22:37-40, Proverbs 22:6, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:25, 2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Peter 3:21, 2 Corinthians 12:9, James 2:26, Proverbs 16:18.
The following are some of the published science papers he has from Trine University.
https://vixra.org/pdf/1107.0038v1.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291030521_Counterexample_to_the_Born_Rule
https://vixra.org/pdf/1306.0165v1.pdf
Keep in mind, Ray did NOT provide me any of this information. I had to find it myself.
RAYMOND FROM IN:
Dear Chris, I've listened to your audio on baptism several times and have a few comments on it if you care to listen. I was taught originally that when Jesus told Nicodemus that you must be born of the water and the Spirit that water meant baptism. I was also aware that others taught, like you, that this meant the birth water that comes out during natural childbirth. But this seemed absurd to me because why would Jesus mention natural childbirth since everyone goes through this process anyway; i.e it is trivial. Then it occurred to me that you cannot be born a second time unless you are born a first time. This is why He mentioned this. Now it makes perfect sense to me, and thank you for shedding light on this.
However this does weaken your example concerning the thief on the cross. One can say that since Jesus did not give the command to baptize until -after- the resurrection, then that example does not apply. Now you did mention that it is written
Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
and that it does not say "he that believeth not or is not baptized shall be damned" but simply "he that believeth not shall be damned." So logically this leaves open the cases where someone gets saved but is not baptized. Those cases are up to God to decide. With that said I do believe that there are people in Heaven who were not baptized because of either inability to get baptized or because they were taught falsely. But those who know that this is a commandment of God and do not do it, are in danger of Hell. I think it is more than an ordinance violation (think jaywalking or spitting gum on the sidewalk).
Finally, I'm surprised you did not mention this verse in your discussion on baptism:
1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
PS. I have a question for you: do you think King Solomon was saved in the end or did he die in his sins?
Dear Chris, I've listened to your audio on baptism several times and have a few comments on it if you care to listen.
No idea who you are, so it makes it difficult sometimes because when I don't know what someone believes concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it's hard to just take in anyone's opinion on the matter. However, that being said, a quick search shows me that you seem to be teaching good things among your church, which is rare. (It's sad that it took the fraudulent COVID scam for Christians to wake up to that fact, instead of understanding through Scripture, but at least there are some Christians gaining good understanding from the circumstances.) I can't tell what you teach on a number of basic principles though, so I'll just have to read your letter and try to discern the best I can.
I was taught originally that when Jesus told Nicodemus that you must be born of the water and the Spirit that water meant baptism. I was also aware that others taught, like you, that this meant the birth water that comes out during natural childbirth. But this seemed absurd to me because why would Jesus mention natural childbirth since everyone goes through this process anyway; i.e it is trivial. Then it occurred to me that you cannot be born a second time unless you are born a first time. This is why He mentioned this. Now it makes perfect sense to me, and thank you for shedding light on this.
Okay, but I'm waiting for the "buuuut..." or "however..." because people don't typically take the time to write me unless they want to argue something. *detective emoji*
However
There it is.
this does weaken your example concerning the thief on the cross. One can say that since Jesus did not give the command to baptize until -after- the resurrection, then that example does not apply. Now you did mention that it is written
Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Not at all, because, again, we have to take precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little.
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
-Isa 28:9-10
This means that the fullness of a doctrine cannot be assessed in Mark 16:16 alone, which is not to say that I'm accusing you of cherrying pick Scriptures, please do not misunderstand; I'm simply pointing out that those who cherry pick cannot understand this verse, and often put unnecessary guidelines on others because of their lack of understanding and misinterpretations.
The bottom line is this: Baptism is an action. It is a ritual. It is something that takes physical effort to be done, and it requires more than one person to accomplish. It falls under the category of works, no matter how one might try to explain it, and there is no other verse than can be used to say that it is not a work.
So knowing that works are not required for salvation...
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
-Eph 2:8-9
... then we know that baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation either, which leaves us the obvious question: Why did Jesus Christ say that those who believe AND are baptized shall be saved, when no one can be saved by works? You focused your letter on one extreme of the criminal being crucified with Christ, but now let's go to the other extreme in Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8.
If you go to verse 13, you will notice that Simon believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and he was baptized, but he was not saved.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
-Acts 8:21
If we take the interpretation that you are using in Mark 16:16, then there would be a serious contradiction here, which is why you are writing to me (I presume). However, there is no contradiction because baptism is not a crux of salvation. Rather, baptism is (or perhaps, can be) evidence of obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is why Jesus said those who believe and are baptized. So when a man is saved, and then learns that he needs to be baptized by the commandment of Jesus Christ, he is obedient to what Christ has told Him to do, and because there are many who have believe, but are not saved (John 8:31-45), then that leaves us with curiosity that something is missing in this equation. If a man can be saved without baptism, but can also be unsaved with belief AND baptism... there is a missing component to all this somewhere in Scripture.
I discuss that missing component in greater detail here:
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php
Our focus should not be baptism as much as it should be on that missing component. That missing component determines whether or not a man's baptism is legitimate. Even witches and Satanists perform baptisms (as do the many false church-ianity denominations around the world), but none of them have what I talk about in that teaching.
and that it does not say "he that believeth not or is not baptized shall be damned" but simply "he that believeth not shall be damned." So logically this leaves open the cases where someone gets saved but is not baptized. Those cases are up to God to decide. With that said I do believe that there are people in Heaven who were not baptized because of either inability to get baptized or because they were taught falsely. But those who know that this is a commandment of God and do not do it, are in danger of Hell. I think it is more than an ordinance violation (think jaywalking or spitting gum on the sidewalk).
But not because of works. Again, there is a missing component here somewhere, and if you want to know more about that missing component concerning the Gospel of Salvation, the link above will provide more details.
Finally, I'm surprised you did not mention this verse in your discussion on baptism:
1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
There are a lot of verses I have missed in various teachings I've done over the years. I am certainly no master of Scripture, so it happens. However, the verse itself does not say that baptism gives a man salvation, because even the verse itself says that baptism does not cleanse a man from unrighteousness, which demonstrates that the salvation being talked about are given those who have a heart that is obedient to Christ because of the transformation of the Holy Ghost within them. It says that baptism is the response of someone who is obedient to conscience of the Holy Ghost within him (i.e. AFTER he is regenerated), which is why there needs to be discernment concerning the testimony of those who claim to be of Christ, so we can determine if a man did it out of obedience, or if he did it out of works to fallaciously believe that his own physical effort in a bathtub would cleanse his spiritual wickedness. (i.e. Physical remedies do not solve spiritual problems, as I have mentioned many times in the book/audio series I did exposing the fraudulent practice of psychology.)
PS. I have a question for you: do you think King Solomon was saved in the end or did he die in his sins?
I suppose I would do what Jesus did when He was teaching and answer that question with a question: Does God forsake those He loves when they do wrong?
And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon (1Ch 22:9): and the LORD loved him.
-2Sa 12:24
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-Rom 8:37-39
Have a great day. *detective emoji*
Chris, you wrote the following in response to my question about Solomon:
"I suppose I would do what Jesus did when He was teaching and answer that question with a question: Does God forsake those He loves when they do wrong?"
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live?
Okay, now this is crossing the line into cherry picking, instead of studying precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little. Your Scripture (without any comment) was very indicative of a major fallacy of doctrine, namely, that a man can be righteous of himself.
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
-Rom 3:9-10
You have access to what I teach, but I do not have access to what you teach, and you did not respond to hardly ANYTHING I wrote to you. (i.e. Did you write to me to have a conversation?) So be straight-forward with me, so we're not beating around the bush: Do you teach that man must do work to be saved? That should make this process a lot faster and easier. *detective emoji*
Chris, sorry for the delay; something came up & I was very busy yesterday.
You say that because I gave you Ez 18:24 I was "cherry picking." How so? Chris, I have some training in scientific method. There, "cherry-picking" refers to selectively sampling data that supports a thesis, and ignoring data that contradicts a thesis (like the global warming fanatics do, and is considered fraud). I did not give you a thesis, all I did was give you a datum (Ez 18:24) that contradicts your thesis, which you couched in a question, suggesting that God forgave Solomon because he loved him, as the scripture says, which of course is true, because the scripture cannot be broken. Now if there is one thing that one will remember from your teaching, if one remembers anything at all, it is that God gives grace to the humble. God loved Solomon and gave him grace, and the Holy Spirit to write the Proverbs no less. But later on, he married a multitude of strange wives, abused the people, and passed his son through the fire. These are qualities not indicative of a humble and contrite spirit. So what would God have to do, ignore that and continue to give him grace anyway, or apply the principle in Ezekiel 18:24? If God ignores the principle in Ezekiel 18:24, then His word is not true. So He must apply it, unless Solomon did repent of his evil works, which I have not found evidence of in scripture. As you have said in your teaching multiple times, "God is not a respecter of persons."
I apologize, I did not comment about what you wrote on baptism since I did not have anything to say about what you wrote.
I hope you don't think I am one of those who is trying to tear you down. I just want to find out what is the truth. There is an underlying reason why I asked you about Solomon, but it is not necessarily about works. You do agree, speaking of works, that when you go before the judgment seat, that you will be judged according to your works? This does not contradict what Paul wrote about not being saved by works. Unlike scientific data, the bible never contradicts itself. There is a way to resolve such seeming disparities, I have faith in that, but you cannot get at the truth by ignoring or diminishing one verse over another.
Chris, sorry for the delay; something came up & I was very busy yesterday.
You say that because I gave you Ez 18:24 I was "cherry picking." How so?
Hang on, let me show you the heart of the problem with your next statement.
Chris, I have some training in scientific method.
And there is the problem. As soon as I pointed out the contradiction in your argument, you turned to the rudiments (i.e. first teachings) of the world, instead of simply looking at the Scripture and discussing the interpretations of it.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
-Col 2:8
Perhaps this might be offensive to you, but when you say you have "training in scientific method," I could care less. I wouldn't care if you have 15 different religious or scientific PhDs. Such vain, worldly things is not how one is able to interpret Scripture because it must be done through the Spirit of God, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, not comparing spiritual things with "scientific method."
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:13-14
There, "cherry-picking" refers to selectively sampling data that supports a thesis, and ignoring data that contradicts a thesis (like the global warming fanatics do, and is considered fraud). I did not give you a thesis, all I did was give you a datum (Ez 18:24) that contradicts your thesis, which you couched in a question,
Here is what I just read from you, "Chris, you countered my argument with correlating Scripture and sound reason, and so instead of answering that, I'm going to try and puff myself up to make myself sound REALLY smart and intimidating." Ray, this isn't my first rodeo, if you get my meaning. (Although, at this point, I'm not sure you will because you didn't when I mentioned cherry picking.) When you're done putting on a show, let's get back to the Scriptural discussion we were having.
suggesting that God forgave Solomon because he loved him, as the scripture says, which of course is true, because the scripture cannot be broken.
Scripture cannot be broken, but you're still rejecting God's love for Solomon for some reason, so let's get to the point.
Now if there is one thing that one will remember from your teaching, if one remembers anything at all, it is that God gives grace to the humble. God loved Solomon and gave him grace, and the Holy Spirit to write the Proverbs no less. But later on, he married a multitude of strange wives, abused the people, and passed his son through the fire. These are qualities not indicative of a humble and contrite spirit. So what would God have to do, ignore that and continue to give him grace anyway, or apply the principle in Ezekiel 18:24?
I'm still waiting for you to ask the question you need to ask. It's fair to say that one cannot know something for certain without evidence of it, but that's not the point of this discussion.
If God ignores the principle in Ezekiel 18:24, then His word is not true. So He must apply it, unless Solomon did repent of his evil works, which I have not found evidence of in scripture. As you have said in your teaching multiple times, "God is not a respecter of persons."
Okay, so you haven't asked the question you need to ask because... hmm... maybe I should explain it this way since you want to turn to worldly education for justification: What you argued is a logical fallacy called a false dilemma. Essentially, it's when a person presents two options, and does not consider that there are other possibilities, which, once you think about it, is kinda' like cherry picking. (i.e. ignoring data that contradicts) So your options are as follows:
1. God ignores His Word to bring a man to heaven.
2. God follows His Word to send a man to hell.
However, you never once even considered the possibility that you might not understand what Ezekiel 18:24 means.
3. Ezekiel 18:24 is not talking about a man having to live righteously to be saved. So instead of looking at the New Testament Scripture I gave you (i.e. the fulfillment of the prophets, like Ezekiel), asking, "Chris, how do you believe we interpret Eze 18:24?" you instead tried to puff yourself up by talking about the scientific method and your personal knowledge, and then claimed there was no way out of your argument. I needed to address that first because not only is that the wrong approach to Scripture, it's not going to work with me.
So, what is the proper interpretation of Eze 18:24? I'm not going to tell you if you're not going to ask me because, frankly, these emails are starting to cross the line over into the area of wasting my time, and I've got projects I'm working on right now.
I apologize, I did not comment about what you wrote on baptism since I did not have anything to say about what you wrote.
Okay, that's fair. However, from my perspective, it made it seem like I wrote all that for no reason, or perhaps even that you were making an argument and then did not care about the response. (i.e. If there is no conversation, there is no point to email.)
I hope you don't think I am one of those who is trying to tear you down. I just want to find out what is the truth.
Ehhhh... from this letter, it doesn't sound like it. That was a lot of puffing up, not trying to find the truth. I'm all for iron sharpening iron, but what you did at the beginning of your last letter was something else entirely. I'm just trying to get to the heart of the matter, and I hope that, somewhere in the next paragraph, you will answer the question I asked you.
There is an underlying reason why I asked you about Solomon, but it is not necessarily about works. You do agree, speaking of works, that when you go before the judgment seat, that you will be judged according to your works? This does not contradict what Paul wrote about not being saved by works. Unlike scientific data, the bible never contradicts itself. There is a way to resolve such seeming disparities, I have faith in that, but you cannot get at the truth by ignoring or diminishing one verse over another.
And you didn't answer my question. Hmm. That's odd. So I asked a very simple "yes or no" question, which you did not bother to answer, and I have no access to any teachings or statements of faith from you at all. I am left to deduce what you really believe by what you say in these letters. All I know is that based on the letters you have written to me, something is off, but I can't put my finger on it because I don't have enough information. However, I have no interest in trying to play a guessing game any further, so let me address this last paragraph one step at a time, and hopefully, we'll be done.
There is an underlying reason why I asked you about Solomon, but it is not necessarily about works.
So why don't you just ask that underlying question so we're not wasting each others' time? I prefer people who are direct, and don't beat around the bush.
You do agree, speaking of works, that when you go before the judgment seat, that you will be judged according to your works?
No. That's not what the Bible teaches. Those who are not of Christ will have to go before the Great White Throne judgment seat to give account for their wicked deeds, but Christians will not have to go to that same judgment. I actually addressed that point recently in Chapter 3 of Corruptions of Christianity: Seventh-day Adventism because Ellen White believed that EVERYONE (whether saved or not) would have to go to the Great White Throne of God and be judged by their works, and that is incorrect.
This does not contradict what Paul wrote about not being saved by works.
Incorrect.
Unlike scientific data, the bible never contradicts itself.
And yet, you were referring to the "scientific method" to defend spiritual arguments. Hmm.
There is a way to resolve such seeming disparities, I have faith in that, but you cannot get at the truth by ignoring or diminishing one verse over another.
Could not have said that better; I just wish you would read what you just said carefully. I gotta' get back to work. Again, have a great day. *detective emoji*
"And there is the problem. As soon as I pointed out the contradiction in your argument"
What argument? You provided me with a thesis; i.e. that Solomon was saved because God loved him, in spite of his lack of repentence. So I gave you a scripture, Ezekiel 18:24, which says, again, the following,
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Do you deny this scripture? Do you deny what James wrote too?
Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Is there now a special exemption for Solomon?
Like you, I followed Kent Hovind for a while, and I use his teachings about origins quite alot, but I always had my suspicions about the man since he is an arrogant know-it-all. He should examine himself, and I think you need to as well.
Good day.
What argument? You provided me with a thesis; i.e. that Solomon was saved because God loved him, in spite of his lack of repentence. So I gave you a scripture, Ezekiel 18:24, which says, again, the following,
Hmm. Your comment there is really interesting because you first said:
unless Solomon did repent of his evil works, which I have not found evidence of in scripture
But there is no evidence that Solomon did NOT repent either. Yet, without evidence, you concluded that he did NOT repent, even though the Scripture doesn't say that, because that is what you want to believe. (i.e. a presupposition)
And still, I have no videos, audios, or writings to determine what you are teaching on a regular basis because you haven't provided any of that for me to see.
I have no statements of faith from you on various basic Christian doctrines.
I have no answer to my question on whether or not you teach works unto salvation.
Therefore, I am forced to conclude that you do indeed teach heretical works-doctrine concerning salvation. Or, at the very least, you teach the heresy that if people sin, then they lose their salvation. And because of that, I want to make it clear to you (so there is no confusion) that I am not yoked together with you, because you and I believe two different doctrines on salvation.
Do you deny this scripture? Do you deny what James wrote too?
And that proved my point. You didn't ask me what the interpretation of Eze 18:24 is, because you don't want to know. Furthermore, you definitely don't want to believe that you don't understand it. (i.e. How dare some young dumb kid like me, question you, the knower of science.) THAT is why I didn't bother to explain it to you without you asking about it first because I suspected you didn't want to hear it anyway, and I knew I would be wasting my time. The more you talk, the more you're proving my points.
Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Is there now a special exemption for Solomon?
No, but we do not have evidence one way or another. The only evidence we were provided is that God loved him, and that he sinned. So if those two factors determine that a man is destined for hell (according to your teaching), then we're all destined for hell without hope, and God made a mistake in loving anyone (including Solomon). I will not join you in that unbiblical and ridiculous ideology.
Like you, I followed Kent Hovind for a while, and I use his teachings about origins quite alot, but I always had my suspicions about the man since he is an arrogant know-it-all. He should examine himself, and I think you need to as well.
So I offered to explain Eze 18:24, and you refused it, and you conclude that I am the one who is arrogant? Then, I asked you a basic yes or no question about your teaching on the Gospel of Salvation, which you refused to answer, and I'm the one who is arrogant?
arrogant (adj): assuming; making or having the disposition to make exorbitant claims of rank or estimation; giving one's self an undue degree of importance; haughty; conceited
There is only one person between the two of us that tried to puff himself up in an undue degree of importance. (e.g. Responding to spiritual matters with: "Chris, I have some training in scientific method.") My response to that is that I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the rough coming months, and I hope that He shows you as much mercy as He has shown me. Have a wonderful day. *detective emoji*
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9
END OF DISCUSSION
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
-Eze 18:24
Now, I'll explain to everyone else the meaning of this verse. Ray took this verse as a man is righteous of his own works, but notice that the first line says that the righteous turns away from HIS righteousness. That's key. We already know from Romans 3 that there are none righteous, and that righteousness can only be achieved through the grace of God, so because we know that, we also know that the phrase "his righteousness" is referring to how he views himself, or even how society views him, similar to how someone is a pastor or priest, and immediately upon hearing this, people around them think they are somehow "holy" or "righteous" because of their person.
Such a man who is held to a higher standard than the average criminal, and when such a man commits iniquity, doing the abominations that a man who society views as wicked (and who the pastor condemns as wicked) does, then he is FAR worse than the criminal. Shall that man live? Or in others words, shall that man have eternal life? By no means.
Ray took this to mean that man walked in the righteousness of God and then turned to iniquity, but that is not what this is saying, and he did not want me to explain this to him. Some online records indicate that he is 53, and since I am only 39, once again, I'm just some young dumb kid... but apparently, I'm a young dumb kid that he has listened to quite a bit. Well, at least until now.
https://www.housechurchconnect.com/places/united-states/indiana/south-bend/church/michiana-home-christian-fellowship/
It says:
We are a small group of Christians meeting in homes on Sunday mornings at 10:30. We are a new non-501c3 house Christian church that has been meeting since our old churches shut down due to the coronavirus panic and plan to continue even if things return to normal. Gods people meeting in worship is essential! Every meeting, we sing hymns with piano, have group prayer, hold communion, bible teaching and a fellowship meal. Everyone is welcome to participate. We do not collect a tithe, sometimes we may collect for an offering for a missionary or for the poor. Key verses illustrating what we believe: John 3:3, Matthew 10:22, Matthew 28:19, Matthew 22:37-40, Proverbs 22:6, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:25, 2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Peter 3:21, 2 Corinthians 12:9, James 2:26, Proverbs 16:18.
The following are some of the published science papers he has from Trine University.
https://vixra.org/pdf/1107.0038v1.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291030521_Counterexample_to_the_Born_Rule
https://vixra.org/pdf/1306.0165v1.pdf
Keep in mind, Ray did NOT provide me any of this information. I had to find it myself.
RAYMOND FROM IN:
Dear Chris, I've listened to your audio on baptism several times and have a few comments on it if you care to listen. I was taught originally that when Jesus told Nicodemus that you must be born of the water and the Spirit that water meant baptism. I was also aware that others taught, like you, that this meant the birth water that comes out during natural childbirth. But this seemed absurd to me because why would Jesus mention natural childbirth since everyone goes through this process anyway; i.e it is trivial. Then it occurred to me that you cannot be born a second time unless you are born a first time. This is why He mentioned this. Now it makes perfect sense to me, and thank you for shedding light on this.
However this does weaken your example concerning the thief on the cross. One can say that since Jesus did not give the command to baptize until -after- the resurrection, then that example does not apply. Now you did mention that it is written
Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
and that it does not say "he that believeth not or is not baptized shall be damned" but simply "he that believeth not shall be damned." So logically this leaves open the cases where someone gets saved but is not baptized. Those cases are up to God to decide. With that said I do believe that there are people in Heaven who were not baptized because of either inability to get baptized or because they were taught falsely. But those who know that this is a commandment of God and do not do it, are in danger of Hell. I think it is more than an ordinance violation (think jaywalking or spitting gum on the sidewalk).
Finally, I'm surprised you did not mention this verse in your discussion on baptism:
1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
PS. I have a question for you: do you think King Solomon was saved in the end or did he die in his sins?
Dear Chris, I've listened to your audio on baptism several times and have a few comments on it if you care to listen.
No idea who you are, so it makes it difficult sometimes because when I don't know what someone believes concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it's hard to just take in anyone's opinion on the matter. However, that being said, a quick search shows me that you seem to be teaching good things among your church, which is rare. (It's sad that it took the fraudulent COVID scam for Christians to wake up to that fact, instead of understanding through Scripture, but at least there are some Christians gaining good understanding from the circumstances.) I can't tell what you teach on a number of basic principles though, so I'll just have to read your letter and try to discern the best I can.
I was taught originally that when Jesus told Nicodemus that you must be born of the water and the Spirit that water meant baptism. I was also aware that others taught, like you, that this meant the birth water that comes out during natural childbirth. But this seemed absurd to me because why would Jesus mention natural childbirth since everyone goes through this process anyway; i.e it is trivial. Then it occurred to me that you cannot be born a second time unless you are born a first time. This is why He mentioned this. Now it makes perfect sense to me, and thank you for shedding light on this.
Okay, but I'm waiting for the "buuuut..." or "however..." because people don't typically take the time to write me unless they want to argue something. *detective emoji*
However
There it is.
this does weaken your example concerning the thief on the cross. One can say that since Jesus did not give the command to baptize until -after- the resurrection, then that example does not apply. Now you did mention that it is written
Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Not at all, because, again, we have to take precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little.
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
-Isa 28:9-10
This means that the fullness of a doctrine cannot be assessed in Mark 16:16 alone, which is not to say that I'm accusing you of cherrying pick Scriptures, please do not misunderstand; I'm simply pointing out that those who cherry pick cannot understand this verse, and often put unnecessary guidelines on others because of their lack of understanding and misinterpretations.
The bottom line is this: Baptism is an action. It is a ritual. It is something that takes physical effort to be done, and it requires more than one person to accomplish. It falls under the category of works, no matter how one might try to explain it, and there is no other verse than can be used to say that it is not a work.
So knowing that works are not required for salvation...
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
-Eph 2:8-9
... then we know that baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation either, which leaves us the obvious question: Why did Jesus Christ say that those who believe AND are baptized shall be saved, when no one can be saved by works? You focused your letter on one extreme of the criminal being crucified with Christ, but now let's go to the other extreme in Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8.
If you go to verse 13, you will notice that Simon believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and he was baptized, but he was not saved.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
-Acts 8:21
If we take the interpretation that you are using in Mark 16:16, then there would be a serious contradiction here, which is why you are writing to me (I presume). However, there is no contradiction because baptism is not a crux of salvation. Rather, baptism is (or perhaps, can be) evidence of obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is why Jesus said those who believe and are baptized. So when a man is saved, and then learns that he needs to be baptized by the commandment of Jesus Christ, he is obedient to what Christ has told Him to do, and because there are many who have believe, but are not saved (John 8:31-45), then that leaves us with curiosity that something is missing in this equation. If a man can be saved without baptism, but can also be unsaved with belief AND baptism... there is a missing component to all this somewhere in Scripture.
I discuss that missing component in greater detail here:
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php
Our focus should not be baptism as much as it should be on that missing component. That missing component determines whether or not a man's baptism is legitimate. Even witches and Satanists perform baptisms (as do the many false church-ianity denominations around the world), but none of them have what I talk about in that teaching.
and that it does not say "he that believeth not or is not baptized shall be damned" but simply "he that believeth not shall be damned." So logically this leaves open the cases where someone gets saved but is not baptized. Those cases are up to God to decide. With that said I do believe that there are people in Heaven who were not baptized because of either inability to get baptized or because they were taught falsely. But those who know that this is a commandment of God and do not do it, are in danger of Hell. I think it is more than an ordinance violation (think jaywalking or spitting gum on the sidewalk).
But not because of works. Again, there is a missing component here somewhere, and if you want to know more about that missing component concerning the Gospel of Salvation, the link above will provide more details.
Finally, I'm surprised you did not mention this verse in your discussion on baptism:
1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
There are a lot of verses I have missed in various teachings I've done over the years. I am certainly no master of Scripture, so it happens. However, the verse itself does not say that baptism gives a man salvation, because even the verse itself says that baptism does not cleanse a man from unrighteousness, which demonstrates that the salvation being talked about are given those who have a heart that is obedient to Christ because of the transformation of the Holy Ghost within them. It says that baptism is the response of someone who is obedient to conscience of the Holy Ghost within him (i.e. AFTER he is regenerated), which is why there needs to be discernment concerning the testimony of those who claim to be of Christ, so we can determine if a man did it out of obedience, or if he did it out of works to fallaciously believe that his own physical effort in a bathtub would cleanse his spiritual wickedness. (i.e. Physical remedies do not solve spiritual problems, as I have mentioned many times in the book/audio series I did exposing the fraudulent practice of psychology.)
PS. I have a question for you: do you think King Solomon was saved in the end or did he die in his sins?
I suppose I would do what Jesus did when He was teaching and answer that question with a question: Does God forsake those He loves when they do wrong?
And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon (1Ch 22:9): and the LORD loved him.
-2Sa 12:24
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-Rom 8:37-39
Have a great day. *detective emoji*
Chris, you wrote the following in response to my question about Solomon:
"I suppose I would do what Jesus did when He was teaching and answer that question with a question: Does God forsake those He loves when they do wrong?"
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live?
Okay, now this is crossing the line into cherry picking, instead of studying precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little. Your Scripture (without any comment) was very indicative of a major fallacy of doctrine, namely, that a man can be righteous of himself.
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
-Rom 3:9-10
You have access to what I teach, but I do not have access to what you teach, and you did not respond to hardly ANYTHING I wrote to you. (i.e. Did you write to me to have a conversation?) So be straight-forward with me, so we're not beating around the bush: Do you teach that man must do work to be saved? That should make this process a lot faster and easier. *detective emoji*
Chris, sorry for the delay; something came up & I was very busy yesterday.
You say that because I gave you Ez 18:24 I was "cherry picking." How so? Chris, I have some training in scientific method. There, "cherry-picking" refers to selectively sampling data that supports a thesis, and ignoring data that contradicts a thesis (like the global warming fanatics do, and is considered fraud). I did not give you a thesis, all I did was give you a datum (Ez 18:24) that contradicts your thesis, which you couched in a question, suggesting that God forgave Solomon because he loved him, as the scripture says, which of course is true, because the scripture cannot be broken. Now if there is one thing that one will remember from your teaching, if one remembers anything at all, it is that God gives grace to the humble. God loved Solomon and gave him grace, and the Holy Spirit to write the Proverbs no less. But later on, he married a multitude of strange wives, abused the people, and passed his son through the fire. These are qualities not indicative of a humble and contrite spirit. So what would God have to do, ignore that and continue to give him grace anyway, or apply the principle in Ezekiel 18:24? If God ignores the principle in Ezekiel 18:24, then His word is not true. So He must apply it, unless Solomon did repent of his evil works, which I have not found evidence of in scripture. As you have said in your teaching multiple times, "God is not a respecter of persons."
I apologize, I did not comment about what you wrote on baptism since I did not have anything to say about what you wrote.
I hope you don't think I am one of those who is trying to tear you down. I just want to find out what is the truth. There is an underlying reason why I asked you about Solomon, but it is not necessarily about works. You do agree, speaking of works, that when you go before the judgment seat, that you will be judged according to your works? This does not contradict what Paul wrote about not being saved by works. Unlike scientific data, the bible never contradicts itself. There is a way to resolve such seeming disparities, I have faith in that, but you cannot get at the truth by ignoring or diminishing one verse over another.
Chris, sorry for the delay; something came up & I was very busy yesterday.
You say that because I gave you Ez 18:24 I was "cherry picking." How so?
Hang on, let me show you the heart of the problem with your next statement.
Chris, I have some training in scientific method.
And there is the problem. As soon as I pointed out the contradiction in your argument, you turned to the rudiments (i.e. first teachings) of the world, instead of simply looking at the Scripture and discussing the interpretations of it.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
-Col 2:8
Perhaps this might be offensive to you, but when you say you have "training in scientific method," I could care less. I wouldn't care if you have 15 different religious or scientific PhDs. Such vain, worldly things is not how one is able to interpret Scripture because it must be done through the Spirit of God, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, not comparing spiritual things with "scientific method."
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:13-14
There, "cherry-picking" refers to selectively sampling data that supports a thesis, and ignoring data that contradicts a thesis (like the global warming fanatics do, and is considered fraud). I did not give you a thesis, all I did was give you a datum (Ez 18:24) that contradicts your thesis, which you couched in a question,
Here is what I just read from you, "Chris, you countered my argument with correlating Scripture and sound reason, and so instead of answering that, I'm going to try and puff myself up to make myself sound REALLY smart and intimidating." Ray, this isn't my first rodeo, if you get my meaning. (Although, at this point, I'm not sure you will because you didn't when I mentioned cherry picking.) When you're done putting on a show, let's get back to the Scriptural discussion we were having.
suggesting that God forgave Solomon because he loved him, as the scripture says, which of course is true, because the scripture cannot be broken.
Scripture cannot be broken, but you're still rejecting God's love for Solomon for some reason, so let's get to the point.
Now if there is one thing that one will remember from your teaching, if one remembers anything at all, it is that God gives grace to the humble. God loved Solomon and gave him grace, and the Holy Spirit to write the Proverbs no less. But later on, he married a multitude of strange wives, abused the people, and passed his son through the fire. These are qualities not indicative of a humble and contrite spirit. So what would God have to do, ignore that and continue to give him grace anyway, or apply the principle in Ezekiel 18:24?
I'm still waiting for you to ask the question you need to ask. It's fair to say that one cannot know something for certain without evidence of it, but that's not the point of this discussion.
If God ignores the principle in Ezekiel 18:24, then His word is not true. So He must apply it, unless Solomon did repent of his evil works, which I have not found evidence of in scripture. As you have said in your teaching multiple times, "God is not a respecter of persons."
Okay, so you haven't asked the question you need to ask because... hmm... maybe I should explain it this way since you want to turn to worldly education for justification: What you argued is a logical fallacy called a false dilemma. Essentially, it's when a person presents two options, and does not consider that there are other possibilities, which, once you think about it, is kinda' like cherry picking. (i.e. ignoring data that contradicts) So your options are as follows:
1. God ignores His Word to bring a man to heaven.
2. God follows His Word to send a man to hell.
However, you never once even considered the possibility that you might not understand what Ezekiel 18:24 means.
3. Ezekiel 18:24 is not talking about a man having to live righteously to be saved. So instead of looking at the New Testament Scripture I gave you (i.e. the fulfillment of the prophets, like Ezekiel), asking, "Chris, how do you believe we interpret Eze 18:24?" you instead tried to puff yourself up by talking about the scientific method and your personal knowledge, and then claimed there was no way out of your argument. I needed to address that first because not only is that the wrong approach to Scripture, it's not going to work with me.
So, what is the proper interpretation of Eze 18:24? I'm not going to tell you if you're not going to ask me because, frankly, these emails are starting to cross the line over into the area of wasting my time, and I've got projects I'm working on right now.
I apologize, I did not comment about what you wrote on baptism since I did not have anything to say about what you wrote.
Okay, that's fair. However, from my perspective, it made it seem like I wrote all that for no reason, or perhaps even that you were making an argument and then did not care about the response. (i.e. If there is no conversation, there is no point to email.)
I hope you don't think I am one of those who is trying to tear you down. I just want to find out what is the truth.
Ehhhh... from this letter, it doesn't sound like it. That was a lot of puffing up, not trying to find the truth. I'm all for iron sharpening iron, but what you did at the beginning of your last letter was something else entirely. I'm just trying to get to the heart of the matter, and I hope that, somewhere in the next paragraph, you will answer the question I asked you.
There is an underlying reason why I asked you about Solomon, but it is not necessarily about works. You do agree, speaking of works, that when you go before the judgment seat, that you will be judged according to your works? This does not contradict what Paul wrote about not being saved by works. Unlike scientific data, the bible never contradicts itself. There is a way to resolve such seeming disparities, I have faith in that, but you cannot get at the truth by ignoring or diminishing one verse over another.
And you didn't answer my question. Hmm. That's odd. So I asked a very simple "yes or no" question, which you did not bother to answer, and I have no access to any teachings or statements of faith from you at all. I am left to deduce what you really believe by what you say in these letters. All I know is that based on the letters you have written to me, something is off, but I can't put my finger on it because I don't have enough information. However, I have no interest in trying to play a guessing game any further, so let me address this last paragraph one step at a time, and hopefully, we'll be done.
There is an underlying reason why I asked you about Solomon, but it is not necessarily about works.
So why don't you just ask that underlying question so we're not wasting each others' time? I prefer people who are direct, and don't beat around the bush.
You do agree, speaking of works, that when you go before the judgment seat, that you will be judged according to your works?
No. That's not what the Bible teaches. Those who are not of Christ will have to go before the Great White Throne judgment seat to give account for their wicked deeds, but Christians will not have to go to that same judgment. I actually addressed that point recently in Chapter 3 of Corruptions of Christianity: Seventh-day Adventism because Ellen White believed that EVERYONE (whether saved or not) would have to go to the Great White Throne of God and be judged by their works, and that is incorrect.
This does not contradict what Paul wrote about not being saved by works.
Incorrect.
Unlike scientific data, the bible never contradicts itself.
And yet, you were referring to the "scientific method" to defend spiritual arguments. Hmm.
There is a way to resolve such seeming disparities, I have faith in that, but you cannot get at the truth by ignoring or diminishing one verse over another.
Could not have said that better; I just wish you would read what you just said carefully. I gotta' get back to work. Again, have a great day. *detective emoji*
"And there is the problem. As soon as I pointed out the contradiction in your argument"
What argument? You provided me with a thesis; i.e. that Solomon was saved because God loved him, in spite of his lack of repentence. So I gave you a scripture, Ezekiel 18:24, which says, again, the following,
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Do you deny this scripture? Do you deny what James wrote too?
Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Is there now a special exemption for Solomon?
Like you, I followed Kent Hovind for a while, and I use his teachings about origins quite alot, but I always had my suspicions about the man since he is an arrogant know-it-all. He should examine himself, and I think you need to as well.
Good day.
What argument? You provided me with a thesis; i.e. that Solomon was saved because God loved him, in spite of his lack of repentence. So I gave you a scripture, Ezekiel 18:24, which says, again, the following,
Hmm. Your comment there is really interesting because you first said:
unless Solomon did repent of his evil works, which I have not found evidence of in scripture
But there is no evidence that Solomon did NOT repent either. Yet, without evidence, you concluded that he did NOT repent, even though the Scripture doesn't say that, because that is what you want to believe. (i.e. a presupposition)
And still, I have no videos, audios, or writings to determine what you are teaching on a regular basis because you haven't provided any of that for me to see.
I have no statements of faith from you on various basic Christian doctrines.
I have no answer to my question on whether or not you teach works unto salvation.
Therefore, I am forced to conclude that you do indeed teach heretical works-doctrine concerning salvation. Or, at the very least, you teach the heresy that if people sin, then they lose their salvation. And because of that, I want to make it clear to you (so there is no confusion) that I am not yoked together with you, because you and I believe two different doctrines on salvation.
Do you deny this scripture? Do you deny what James wrote too?
And that proved my point. You didn't ask me what the interpretation of Eze 18:24 is, because you don't want to know. Furthermore, you definitely don't want to believe that you don't understand it. (i.e. How dare some young dumb kid like me, question you, the knower of science.) THAT is why I didn't bother to explain it to you without you asking about it first because I suspected you didn't want to hear it anyway, and I knew I would be wasting my time. The more you talk, the more you're proving my points.
Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Is there now a special exemption for Solomon?
No, but we do not have evidence one way or another. The only evidence we were provided is that God loved him, and that he sinned. So if those two factors determine that a man is destined for hell (according to your teaching), then we're all destined for hell without hope, and God made a mistake in loving anyone (including Solomon). I will not join you in that unbiblical and ridiculous ideology.
Like you, I followed Kent Hovind for a while, and I use his teachings about origins quite alot, but I always had my suspicions about the man since he is an arrogant know-it-all. He should examine himself, and I think you need to as well.
So I offered to explain Eze 18:24, and you refused it, and you conclude that I am the one who is arrogant? Then, I asked you a basic yes or no question about your teaching on the Gospel of Salvation, which you refused to answer, and I'm the one who is arrogant?
arrogant (adj): assuming; making or having the disposition to make exorbitant claims of rank or estimation; giving one's self an undue degree of importance; haughty; conceited
There is only one person between the two of us that tried to puff himself up in an undue degree of importance. (e.g. Responding to spiritual matters with: "Chris, I have some training in scientific method.") My response to that is that I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the rough coming months, and I hope that He shows you as much mercy as He has shown me. Have a wonderful day. *detective emoji*
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9
END OF DISCUSSION
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
-Eze 18:24
Now, I'll explain to everyone else the meaning of this verse. Ray took this verse as a man is righteous of his own works, but notice that the first line says that the righteous turns away from HIS righteousness. That's key. We already know from Romans 3 that there are none righteous, and that righteousness can only be achieved through the grace of God, so because we know that, we also know that the phrase "his righteousness" is referring to how he views himself, or even how society views him, similar to how someone is a pastor or priest, and immediately upon hearing this, people around them think they are somehow "holy" or "righteous" because of their person.
Such a man who is held to a higher standard than the average criminal, and when such a man commits iniquity, doing the abominations that a man who society views as wicked (and who the pastor condemns as wicked) does, then he is FAR worse than the criminal. Shall that man live? Or in others words, shall that man have eternal life? By no means.
Ray took this to mean that man walked in the righteousness of God and then turned to iniquity, but that is not what this is saying, and he did not want me to explain this to him. Some online records indicate that he is 53, and since I am only 39, once again, I'm just some young dumb kid... but apparently, I'm a young dumb kid that he has listened to quite a bit. Well, at least until now.
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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p15
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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p14
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What's New @ CLE / (TRACTS) Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell Complete File
« on: August 11, 2021, 01:37:51 PM »
http://creationliberty.com/tracts.php
I have added a downloadable ZIP file of the book, Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. The file contains over four hours of audio teaching, which can be burned onto CDs. (i.e. Each file can fit on one CD, so you would need four CDs in total.) The ZIP file also contains the PDF file for the entire book, which is free-to-read and share with others, and it explains the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation, which (sadly) is not taught in most church buildings.
I have added a downloadable ZIP file of the book, Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. The file contains over four hours of audio teaching, which can be burned onto CDs. (i.e. Each file can fit on one CD, so you would need four CDs in total.) The ZIP file also contains the PDF file for the entire book, which is free-to-read and share with others, and it explains the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation, which (sadly) is not taught in most church buildings.
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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p13
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What's New @ CLE / (SCRIPTURE) The Book of 2nd Corinthians: My Notes on Chapters 11-13
« on: July 27, 2021, 10:53:35 AM »
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