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Bible Discussion / Easter Contradictions and Mike Winger: How long was Jesus in the Tomb?

« on: April 07, 2023, 01:04:39 AM »

On last year's Easter Sunday morning, I was scrolling through Facebook and was met with all these "He Is Risen" posts being shared by a number of people. It irked me to the point where I felt compelled to post something, so I gave what I reckon is the simplest argument that dismantles Easter's credibility.

'If Easter is indeed about the death and resurrection of Jesus, dying on Good Friday, and being raised on Easter Sunday, how can you fit 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) between these two days?
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." - Matthew 12:40
An example where scripture doesn't fit into this tradition of men.'

Chris includes this point in his "Easter: Christians Celebrating Abomination"(https://www.creationliberty.com/articles/easter.php) and uses this helpful visual to better understand the problem. Simply, if Jesus died on "Good" Friday, then Jesus would have rose again on Monday in order for three days and nights to have passed according to Matthew 12:40.

Anyone claiming to respect the authority of scripture can't ignore this clear contradiction. Or at least they can't ignore it as easily as they seem to ignore evidence of any pagan connections.
It was interesting the responses, a couple agreed and I had one scoffer, but only a couple tried defending it. The main defense consisted of baseless claims that the Jews count days differently and that partial days were included in the count, so that it wasn't actually a full 72 hour period.

In my responses I explained that no matter how you try counting between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning, there's no way that you can get 3 nights between them, there's only Friday and Saturday night. This point without a doubt shows the incompatibility of Easter with Scripture.
Next I explained how we know that Jesus' tomb was found empty on Sunday morning (Mark 16:1-6). Now we know that Jesus died on the preparation day, the day before a Sabbath. Most preparation days are Fridays which is before the weekly Sabbaths on Saturday. We learn from John that this preparation day was for a high Sabbath (which would have been the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.)

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." - John 19:31

The high Sabbath doesn't have to fall on the same day as the weekly Sabbath, Saturday, and therefore the preparation Day doesn't have to be a Friday. And seeing three days and three nights can't fit between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning, it definitely was not a Friday.

The final point I made was "seeing as the tradition of Easter is passed down by the Catholic Church, it's no wonder they got this most basic fact wrong (3 days 3 nights), seeing as they don't care at all what scripture has to say. Nor is it even necessary to celebrate Christ's resurrection annually; it's something we should always be celebrating."

Now comes in Mike Winger. My friend sent me Winger's "13 Bible Contradictions refuted: Evidence for the Bible pt19" (https://youtu.be/uoLYyyqijfU?t=1069), along with the comment that he was now content with the timing of Easter. The relevant contradiction doesn't have anything to do with Easter directly, but it does justify its timing.

At 17:49, Winger addresses the seeming contradiction between Christ saying that He will rise again the third day and Matthew 12:40 where He says that He would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The contradiction is perceived as follows:
If Christ rose on the third day, then that means He wasn't in the tomb for three days and three nights, because He would have risen before the third night which is after the third day. And if Christ was in the tomb three days and three nights, then that means He would have rose on the fourth day, not the third day. Because if He rose after the third night, that would make it the fourth day.

Mike's solution is that three days and three nights is an idiom, that doesn't actually mean a 72 hour period. He points to multiple Old Testament passages, such as 1 Samuel 30 12:-13, where similar seeming contradictions appear.
Mike gives the modern misuse of the word literally, such as "I literally died" (when the speaker obviously has not died), as a comparison to how the Jews were using the phrase "three days and three nights." He claims this was just the way Jews used the phrase and was to do with how they considered time, citing the Babylonian Talmud as his only support for this assertion. He puts it down as a "peculiarity of language."

I hope others find this argument as absurd as I did. It took me a little while to realise, but I think the seeming contradiction Winger is trying to address is easily resolved by considering that Jews count their days from sunset to sunset.

"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." - Genesis 1:5

So the nighttime is considered first and then the daytime. So when Christ rose the third day, He had already been in the tomb for three nights. The correct way of counting: night 1, day 1, night 2, day 2, night 3, day 3 = Resurrection Day.

It helped that this way of considering days was engrained in my mind when my family and I "kept" the Sabbath when growing up, which starts on Friday's sunset and at Saturday's sunset. But it's still surprising to me that something so simple was overseen, and instead Winger settled with a very questionable resolution. The blinding of the Easter tradition was likely a big factor (not to mention general blindness.)

Lastly, I eventually stumbled across 2 very short videos from a very deceitful Hebrew Roots ministry. While they are corrupt, they make a very sound argument in these videos that effectively and thoroughly explains the matter while showing the absurdity of the Easter timing. Here are the links, but if you rather not watch it I explain and expand on their argument below, but the video's visuals are useful. (Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RVxGgo0D08 Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzVSrrCpOS8)

The argument they present is as follows:

• They begin by quoting Matthew 12:40 - "so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." The phrase 'in the heart of the earth, referring to the amount of time Jesus' body spent in the tomb. 
• Next they quote John 11:9 - "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world." Therefore by Jesus' own words we know that when He talks about a day in terms of time, He is talking about a period of 12 hours, and correspondingly there are 12 hours during the night. This evidence that supports the fact that Matthew 12:40 must be talking about a 72 hour period when it talks about three days and three nights.
• According to Matthew 27:46 Jesus died around the ninth hour of the daytime, which would be about 3:00pm. Which is close to the evening hours so they do not count this as part of the three days and three nights. I reckon that its plausible to have taken until just before sunset to place Jesus inside the tomb, so I find this to be reasonable.
• "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." - Mark 16:9 As discussed before, the Jews count their days beginning at sunset, so early the first day would be Saturday night. This is supported by John 20:1 - "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." Mary arrived at the tomb on the first day of the week, around the time of sunrise, which would be Sunday morning, and the tomb was empty.
• Counting back from Saturday night three day and three nights, brings us to Wednesday night. So Jesus would have died on Wednesday day. John 19:31 shows the day Jesus died was the preparation Day and the following day was a Sabbath. The first day of Unleavened Bread is a high Sabbath. (Lev 23:7) This is further supported by Mark 16:1-2 - "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun." The Sabbath that past could not have been the weekly Sabbath, because there would have been no time to buy the spices between the end of the weekly Sabbath and the following first day of the week. Indicating there must have been two sabbaths, the high and weekly one. So she would have bought the spices after the high Sabbath on the Friday.

I find this to be quite a sound and comprehensive argument. But it's worth noting that sound arguments like these showing the errors of the Catholic-Pagan holidays seem to be used to draw people into Hebrew Roots / Sabbath keeping beliefs, by afterwards presenting arguments that also sound reasonable but are actually fallacious. I remember growing up and my dad making a big deal about the pagan origins and contradictions of Christmas and Easter and I speculate that opened his mind to the Sabbath keeping cult we were apart of. It seems that anyone who steers clear from Easter, Christmas and the like are either sanctified born again Christians, or a works-based Sabbath "keeper" of some sort.

I hope this wasn't too difficult to follow. I certainly got confused thinking through the days. I would greatly appreciate correction to any of the conclusions I've made if there are any errors and for further insights anyone is able to offer.   

2

Evangelism / An Explanation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

« on: January 22, 2023, 09:15:55 AM »

The following is an explanation of the Gospel that I have been slowly working on for the past few months. I decided to make this so that I could link to it in my social media bios (the main reason why I haven't deleted them.) A big motivation for doing so is to start being more outspoken, so that people can know where I stand. And ultimately for the hope that as many people as possible could be reached with the Gospel message in its entirety.

Here is a link to the PDF version: https://docdro.id/IFW5Hs3 - I have also attached the PDF file to this post in case anyone wants it.

I have hyperlinked (in the PDF version) Christopher's "Why Millions of Believers are Going to Hell", "There is No Saving Grace Without Repentance", and "Jesus said There Are Many False Converts" under the 'Recommended Teachings' to refer people to after the section I've titled "A Warning for False Converts". I have also linked to various books of the Bible that I think are good places to start, again just in the PDF version.

My intentions for posting it here: so that others can ensure no doctrinal errors have been made and for any feedback for improvements one might have to give. As well as for the edification of others, and so that people can pray for it if they wish to.

Big thanks to Rowan M for helping me proofread this and for vastly improving the clarity and quality of what is written.
 

Salvation from the Wrath to Come - The Gospel of Jesus Christ

"... Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death."
- Jeremiah 21:8

God, Who made heaven and earth and all therein, has revealed to mankind the way that leads to life and the way that leads to death. By His word, the Holy Bible, we are able to clearly know these two ways, and through His grace, we may choose the way we will go.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
- Proverbs 14:12

"In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death."
- Proverbs 12:28

The Law: Thou shalt love thy Neighbour


God reveals the way of life and death through His laws. God gave us His laws for all people to abide by. When we break the laws of God, we sin against Him, and the result of sin is death.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
- 1 John 3:4

"Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
- James 1:15

In the following verses, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, gives a number of these laws:

"... Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
- Matthew 19:18-19

It is sin against God to murder, to have sex outside of marriage, to steal, and to lie. These are all examples of hating one's neighbour, yet Jesus commands us to "love thy neighbour as thyself."


To take a life through murder is one of the greatest acts of hatred that one can do to his neighbour. For a person to end the innocent life of another grieves God immensely.

"And [God] said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground."
- Genesis 4:10

The relationship of marriage is one that is sacred, where God spiritually joins a man and a woman, making them one flesh. The Bible tells us that a wife belongs to her husband, and a husband to his wife. To commit adultery breaks this relationship, destroying families.

"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
- Mark 10:9

To steal is to take something that does not belong to you, to violate the property rights of another person.

"Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell."
- Proverbs 9:16-17

To lie to someone is to tell them something that is not true, to deceive them.

"A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin."
- Proverbs 26:20

The Law: The Heart


Many people have told a few lies, or maybe a countless number of them, maybe stolen something one time, but at least they've never been unfaithful or killed anyone, right? Jesus tells us,

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: ..."
- Matthew 5:21-22

Being angry with someone for no reason, or an unjustified reason, and harbouring that hatred against them is seen as murderous intent by God and will be judged the same way by Him. Such unjust reasons may include various hateful prejudices, such as of race, sex, or class, or differences that wound one's pride. Jesus also tells us,

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
-Matthew 5:27-28

Those who lust after others are guilty of adultery and/or fornication in their hearts, whether they do so out in public, or privately through viewing pornography, or secretly through their imagination. Jesus shows us that without even committing sin physically, we can still be guilty of a sin by committing it within our hearts; this is true for all sins.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."
- Mark 7:21-23

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
- Jeremiah 17:9

The Law: Thou shalt love thy the Lord thy God


We don't want to be murdered, cheated on, stolen from, or lied to, so we shouldn't do these things to others. To do these things is to hate our neighbours, not to love them as ourselves, as Jesus commanded. Nor should there be any place in our hearts and minds to do this evil unto them. Yet when we hate our neighbour so, we hate God as well, as we rebel against His laws. In fact, Jesus reveals to us that all of God's laws can be summarised by two commandments:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
- Matthew 22:37-40

Many people openly hate and despise the Christian God of the Bible. However, though others might not openly curse God, they can still show hatred to Him through the sin of idolatry. God commands,

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
- Exodus 20:3

Those of false religions, who worship false gods in place of the God of the Bible, are guilty of the sin of idolatry.

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD and there is none else."
- Isaiah 45:5-6

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
- Romans 1:20

"Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else."
- Deuteronomy 4:39

Though one might not worship a god of a false religion, there are many things people worship in the place of God. These things could include money, other people, their passions, or their hobbies. Whatever it may be that we love more than the God Who has given us every good thing in our lives, we become idolaters in our hearts. Even if we don't physically bow down to worship these things, in our hearts we do worship them.

"Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?"
- Ezekiel 14:3

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
- James 1:17

As well as their idols, people believe in their hearts that they themselves are worthy of praise and worship, through the sin of pride. Though we often will not admit it, in our minds it is our nature to think ourselves better than others. Maybe because we might have more talent, wealth, beauty, or intelligence than another, we exalt ourselves in our minds above them. Yet the question must be asked,

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"
- 1 Corinthians 4:7

Everything we have, even the ability to work to obtain the things that we have, are ultimately given to us from God. So to glorify ourselves in our pride makes no sense and is wicked. Worst of all is when people think that they are better than others morally. They think, 'At least I'm not like those evil people!' However, if anyone examines themselves against the laws of God honestly, they will find that they are guilty of the things that God hates.

"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
- Proverbs 6:16-19

"The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
- Psalm 14:2-3

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
- Romans 3:23

The Judgement: The Wrath to Come


Because all have sinned and broken God's laws, Jesus preached to all people commanding them to repent, which means to have godly sorrow for one's sins.

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
- Matthew 4:17

Jesus preached this because with the coming of the kingdom of God, all who sin will be punished justly, and those who commit such offences will have no part in His kingdom.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Those that are the servants of sin will have no place in the kingdom of God; where the laws of God will not be broken any longer. Jesus warns us where their ways will take them instead.

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
- Matthew 13:41-42

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night..."
- Revelation 14:10-11

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
- Matthew 25:41

This is the righteous judgement of God, Whose judgement will be executed in the day of judgement.

"Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first,
and also of the Gentile;"
- Romans 3:6-9

"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; ..."
- Acts 17:31

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
- Matthew 12:36

The Gospel: Jesus Christ the Son of God


By sinning against God through violating His laws, we have all chosen the way of death.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
- Ezekiel 18:4

This is not what God wants for anyone in this world, even the most evil people.

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
- Ezekiel 33:11

"But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth."
- Psalm 86:15

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
- Isaiah 1:28

We need our sins to be forgiven. However, God is a just and righteous judge, and His righteous wrath for our sin must be satisfied.
So God, in His tremendous mercy and love, made the greatest sacrifice that was ever made, that we may be saved from our rightful death and destruction, and instead be placed upon the way of life.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
- John 1:1-3

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
- John 1:14

The Almighty God, the creator of heaven and earth, humbled Himself by becoming a man. This man was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Who is God and one with His Father. On the earth, this is what He endured:

"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is
dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
- Isaiah 53:3-9

Christ came to this earth and lived a sinless life. Even though He did no evil, and in fact did many wonderful works, His life was filled with all these sufferings.

"Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached."
- Luke 7:22

Jesus Christ did all these wonderful and miraculous works, but despite all this and despite being the Holy God in the flesh, He was despised, oppressed, and afflicted. This was because Jesus lovingly warned the people of the coming judgement, and preached that they should have godly sorrow for their sins. But the people loved their sins, rather than the light of Jesus Christ.

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
- John 3:19

Christ continued in this affliction, up until He was "brought as a lamb to the slaughter;" Jesus was wrongly accused, the people demanding His death by crucifixion.

"But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. And [Pilate] said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go. And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed."
- Luke 23:21-23

"And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on theright hand, and the other on the left."
- Luke 23:33

Upon Him was laid, "the iniquity of us all," "and he made his grave with the wicked:"

Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross and died, so that we can be saved from the wrath to come. He died in our place and satisfied the wrath of God, so that we can receive the forgiveness of sins and be redeemed by His blood.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"
- Ephesians 1:7

"Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
- 1 Timothy 2:6

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
- Romans 5:8-10

Jesus Christ was then buried in a tomb. However, He did not remain dead - after three days and three nights, He rose from the grave.

"And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
- Luke 24:2-7

"And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon."
- Luke 24:33-34

"Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him."
- Romans 6:9

After appearing to His disciples, He ascended into heaven, where He now sits at the right hand of God.

"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."
- Mark 16:19

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
- 1 Timothy 3:16

The Gospel: Faith and Repentance

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
- 1 Timothy 1:15

The work of Christ to save sinners from death is finished and complete, and now this salvation is offered to all the world entirely by His grace; a gift of God, through faith and repentance.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life."
- John 3:16

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
- John 5:24

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
- John 11:25-26

If we believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God, Who died on the cross and rose again, we will not perish, but instead receive the gift of everlasting life!

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
- John 10:28

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
- Romans 6:23

If we believe, having our faith placed in Him, we may be justified in the sight of God by the imputing of Christ's righteousness unto us; God will see the righteousness of Christ instead of the sins which we have committed.

"And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;"
- Romans 4:22-24

"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
- Romans 3:22-24

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
- Romans 10:9-10

For if we believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, we must believe that we ourselves are sinners. That through our evil actions we grieve the holy and merciful God. And that the only innocent, most merciful and most charitable man had to suffer and die in our place in order for us to be saved from the eternal punishment that we are worthy to receive.
If we "believe [this] in [our] heart", it should break our hearts, and with broken hearts over our sin, we should call upon God, sorry that we have wronged Him.

"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit."
- Psalm 34:18

"A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
- Psalms 51:17

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
- Romans 10:13

"For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee."
- Psalms 86:5

If we accept these truths, we can readily see the true nature of our wretched state, how evil and vile we really are.

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"
- Revelation 3:17

"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
- Romans 7:24

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
- Job 42:5-6

And seeing our own brokenness and corruption, we can but mourn and weep to God.

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness."
- James 4:9

This is repentance; to have godly sorrow over one's sin. And those who are brought so low as to have godly sorrow over their iniquities, will be forgiven by God in His great mercies, and will have their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
- Acts 3:19

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
- 2 Corinthians 7:10

"For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."
- Isaiah 66:2

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."
- Matthew 5:3-5

"And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
- Luke 5:31-32

A repentant heart is the evidence of humility and meekness before God; for a prideful person won't even admit he does evil, let alone have grief towards God for the evil he does.
However, to receive God's grace, we must be humbled.

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
- James 4:6

We need to be as lowly and humbled as a child, as one that comes to their father in sorrow for their wrongdoing.

"And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy
son."
- Luke 15:21

"And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child,[/b] the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
- Matthew 18:2-4

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein."
- Luke 18:16-17

For we are more helpless than children to save ourselves from the consequences of our sin; there is no working our way out of the judgement of our sin. Just as it is impossible for a murderer to be justly absolved of his crimes by doing good deeds and charitable work, likewise it is impossible for sinners to be absolved of their sins by trying to do good works, or by trying to keep the laws of God which they have already broken.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
- Ephesian 2:8-9

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
- Titus 3:5

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
- Galatians 2:16

Because of the pride in their hearts, many believe by that participating in enough religious rituals (such as the wicked Catholic Mass), or doing enough good deeds, this will justify them in God's sight. However, the Bible is extremely clear: salvation is "not by works of righteousness which we have done." For in our wicked, natural state, we cannot even do good.

"They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
- Romans 3:12

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
- Isaiah 64:6

For us to even do good, we must be spiritually transformed; we must be born again, of the Spirit of God, and receive the Holy Spirit Who can renew us.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
- John 3:5

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
- 2 Corinthians 5:17

Then and only then, with the righteousness of Christ and the Holy Spirit, can we do any good.
And if we are born of His Spirit, then we are made God's children, and God's temple, the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. And His children will follow after His perfect and merciful ways and be sanctified from the world.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
- John 1:12-13

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."
- 2 Corinthians 6:16-18

And then with our Father will we dwell for all eternity.

"Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
- Revelation 7:14-17

"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."
- Psalm 23:6

A Warning for False Converts


There are many people in this world who call themselves Christians, who sing praises to God every week and tell others how good He is. While these are good things to do, Jesus tells us that many do this in hypocrisy.

"Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments
of men. "
- Matthew 15:7-9

There are billions of so-called Christians, who speak good things with their mouths about Jesus Christ and claim that they are of Him. Yet in reality, in their heart, they are nowhere near the Living God. Jesus warns us what will happen to these people:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
- Matthew 7:21-23

Many will try to point to their supposed "many wonderful works" in order to justify themselves before God. Yet though they did all these things in the name of Jesus, they never truly did, "the will of my Father which is in heaven".

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
- 2 Peter 3:9

The will of God is for all men to repent; to have grief and godly sorrow for one's sin.

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
- Acts 17:30

Those to whom Jesus will say, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity," are those who never had repentance for their sins; their faith was not true. Therefore they were never born again, nor did they receive the Holy Spirit, and their sins were never remitted.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 2:38

If you are not sorry to God for your sin, then you are not of Him. Therefore:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
- 2 Corinithians 13:5

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
- Luke 6:48

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
- Luke 13:3

(See Recommended Teachings below for more on this subject)


Conclusion

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
- Matthew 7:13-14

The way of this world is the way of death, and the vast majority are headed towards its destructive end. We have all chosen this way, and the only option of escape to the way of life is by the Lord Jesus Christ through repentance and faith.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
- John 14:6

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."
- Acts 20:21

Our lives in this world are fleeting, and afterwards we will stand before God in judgement.

"Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away."
- Psalm 144:4

"Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
- James 4:14

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
- Hebrews 9:27

"Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity."
- Psalm 98:9

In the end, a fleeting life of sin, devoid of the saving grace of Jesus Christ, will ultimately leave us in eternal destruction. Even if we had everything we ever hoped for in this life, even if we reached all of our goals and achieved all of our dreams.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"
- Matthew 16:24-27

Jesus Christ alone is able to save us from our sins, through a repentant heart and faith in Him. And these things He gives to us; we cannot repent and believe by our own power. However, if we ask God in meekness and in fear for these things, acknowledging the truth of our sin, He will give them to us.

"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
- 2 Timothy 2:25

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
- Hebrews 12:2

"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:"
- 1 John 5:14

Therefore:

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
- Ecclesiates 12:13

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"
- Deuteronomy 30:19

"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."
- 1 Peter 1:24-25

My prayer is that the reader would be blessed by the reading of God's word and that its power would transform your life as it has mine. That through faith and repentance, you would receive the forgiveness of sins, the peace of Jesus Christ and the hope of eternal life.


By Joshua J.Z. Brunton



Recommended Teachings

"Why Millions of Believers on Jesus are Going to Hell" - Creation Liberty Evangelism
"There is No Saving Grace Without Repentance" - Creation Liberty Evangelism
"Jesus said There Are Many False Converts" - Creation Liberty Evangelism

3

General Discussion / Reproving the Works of Videogames: Final Fantasy

« on: December 28, 2021, 07:09:14 AM »

Three years ago now I discovered CLE through searching for Christian perspectives on videogames. In particular, games which had a lot of magic and mythological creatures and the likes within them, otherwise known as witchcraft and paganism. And the Lord lead me to the article "Videogames: Causing Witchcraft to Prosper".

Reading this article was a crucial step leading to my conversion, because these kind of videogames were the biggest idol in my life, set up from an early age. Some of my earliest, and once fondest memories, were watching my brothers play them and myself playing them for the first time. They were what I asked for my birthdays. I totally immersed myself in them, they were what I thought about all day, what I hoped for constantly, they were literally my gods. And I needed to repent for my idolatry, and I learnt that through finding this article.
Now that I have been saved by the true Living God, I thought I would share some knowledge and insight into some of these games before I forget the details.

The particular videogame series I was searching about was the Final Fantasy series, one of the videogames Chris touches on in his article.
This series has been propagating witchcraft for quite sometime now. The first installment began back in 1987 with the first major at home consoles.
At the time of this post, there are 15 installments in the main series, some of which have sequels, with numerous spin off titles. I have played nearly all 15 of them except for 11, and have finished them all except for 1 and 11. On top of this I completed a lot of the spin off titles as well. You might have guessed that this series was my primary idol of all my videogame idols.

Chris does a good job in his article explaining the gist of the series, but I will recap some of the details.
The main attraction and unique factor that distinguishes the series from other games of the same genre (which is Role Playing Games or RPG, specifically Japanese ones), are definitely what are generally referred to as summons. Summons are spiritual entities that the main characters call upon in battle to fight for them. Sometimes they play a major role in the plot/storyline of the game, sometimes they are just kind of there, but they are always there. And the main sources of inspirations for them are pagan gods. Examples include Odin and Phoenix, more familiar ones, then there are many more obscure ones such as Ifrit, Bahamut, Ixion, Quetzalcoatl etc. If you ask anyone who knows about the series, they are likely to tell you that the summons are the coolest parts of the game. The animations for these creatures are often spectacular, and some of the most epic moments in the series is centered around them. I very much think that the inclusion of these creatures has attributed greatly to the series' success. Because by their inclusion and centerpiece role they take, when the player marvels he glorifies them, and is made an idolater of them. Continuing on the worship of pagan gods.

"... for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God." - Luke 16:15

On top of incorporating pagan gods into their videogames, they also incorporate many other spiritual and pagan philosophies into their plots and themes. Chris goes into detail how in Final Fantasy 7 the main villain's philosophy is based upon Gnosticism and how the player is subtly taught Gnostic concepts throughout the game. Being a Japanese series, they delve into many eastern pagan concepts. However some of the installments in the series they even incorporate Christian concepts. And when they do, I think this is when the philosophies that are presented are most sinister and most dangerous.

This brings me to my primary motivation for this post, and that is to demonstrate how the tenth installment, Final Fantasy 10, communicates messages directly antithetical to the gospel.
To do which, I will do my best to concisely explain the necessary points of the overly complicated plot.

Final Fantasy 10

The game begins, and you are introduced to the main character. He lives in this futuristic kind of city with big sky scrapers, called Zanarkand. He's a sports star, and he's a got a big game on that night. During the game however, the city is attacked by this big whale like monstrosity that can fly, quickly destroying the city, including the stadium. Panicked, the main character finds himself outside the destroyed stadium where he finds another main character, his father's friend. They look at the big whale monster, and he tells him, "We call it Sin." Eventually they both get sucked away by Sin.

Final Fantasy 10's Sin

Fast forward, the main character washes up on an island in a world he's not familiar with (called Spira), and learns more about "Sin".
Cities like Zanarkand existed all over Spira, ran using machines and technology (referred to as machina in the game). Then Sin came and destroyed them all. Sin continues to this day to wreak havoc on the world and the people live in constant fear of being destroyed by Sin.

Sin destroying a village

Now there exists a religion called Yevon, and they forbid the use of machina, they teach that Sin is their punishment for using machina. They take inspiration from all the world's religions, however primarily they represent the Catholic Church. Their hierarchical structure, the character design, and their rampant corruption and authoritative presence, and their supreme political power all allude to the Catholics. And their suppression of technology is probably an allusion to the Catholic's well known history of suppressing scientific advancements.

Now the only way to defeat Sin is for a summoner (a person who calls/summons the spiritual pagan inspired creatures to fight for them in battle) to go on a pilgrimage across the different temples of Spira. After that they can then go to Zanarkand (a different one from before) to receive the Final Summoning, which is powerful enough to defeat Sin.
However! When Sin is defeated by a summoner, after a short period of time, Sin is reborn and continues to wreak havoc on the world.
So the Yevonites teach the people that if they follow their teachings and atones for their sins, when Sin (the big whale) is defeated, there's a chance it won't come back again. (A point I found interesting is they never once go into detail about what these sins are, besides the use of technology. And instead of sorting out the sin issue they just keep throwing summoners at "Sin".)

You can probably already see where this is going. Summoners defeating Sin. Who might the summoners represent? The game makes it very clear early on when the main character summoner walks on water.

Summoner walking on water

Then later on in the game, we learn that in order to summon the Final Summoning, the summoner dies in the process.
So the summoners are supposed to be a representation of Jesus Christ.

Now summoners sacrificing themselves aren't enough to defeat Sin forever, the Yevon religion teaches that works based doctrines must be involved to end Sin once and for all (just like the real Catholic Church.) But at the end of the game, we learn from the lady who gives the summoner the Final Summoning, after being questioned about Yevon's teaching, that these ideas of Yevon are false as well, and that they are designed to give the people hope in a hopeless world. "Sin is eternal" she says.
So what is the main character's response to this information? They devise a genius plan involving the use of machina, and through the idolised power of friendship, they stun sin then enter inside it to destroy it within. They then find Yu Yevon (the namesake of the Yevonites,  Yu Yevon is a representation of God), who lives in Sin and uses it as his armour. They kill Yu Yevon, who takes the form of parasite, and that ends the cycle of "Sin".


So what ideas and philosophies does one learn from completing this game? First and foremost, the idea that there is no sacrifice for your sins. This idea is one that is reiterated throughout the plot of the game to the player. No matter how many summoners (representations of Jesus Christ) they thrown at "Sin", it keeps coming back. (Really it is again reminiscent of the Catholic Church and their abominable Eucharist, perpetuating the sacrifice.) However at the end of the game, we learn that "Sin" can't be defeated through any sacrifice whatsoever, so applying this idea they learn from the game to the real world, is that there is no sacrifice capable to made as a propitiation for your sins, therefore Jesus Christ's sacrifice is not enough either.

So the other dangerous ideas that the game teaches is how the problem of "Sin" is resolved, and that is through embracing that thing which was forbidden (in the game machina), and to destroy god.

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."    - Romans 7:9

The philosophy we learn how to deal with sin in our lives, instead of resolving sin how it needs to be resolved (through the mercy of God by the blood of His Son), we ignore God and his laws and commandments and continue in our sin, and through our own power we overcome life's troubles. Cause as many people would have you believe, it's not sin that's the problem but God and His standards.  In the game, going so far as to kill their wicked misrepresentation of God, which I reckon illustrates the animosity the spirit behind the game has for the True Living God.

Because this game parodies the Catholic Church, Christian concepts are straw manned / misrepresented, and when they are dismantled, they are replaced by even worse philosophies on top of the misleading mess.

 

It was through one of my older brothers I was introduced to this series, and I can't help but think this had a considerable impact on his religious philosophies. He believes in God, but he has fallen into the Hebrew Roots heresy that denies the power of Christ,

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" - Collosians 2:14

Though all our family was lead into to an extent through my dad, he's the only one out of us all that has committed down this road. And I think this is at least in part due to the philosophies that this game teaches. That all sacrifices for sins are insufficient and that we have to depend upon our own works. (Not to mention he has also embraces a number of blatant sins, but somehow justifies them.)

I thank the Lord; I don't think I was too affected by most of these ideas. I that the Lord again, that the main takeaway in regards to these philosophies, was to rather be highly skeptical of organised religion. The game parodies the Catholic Church well, especially its hypocritical and oppressive nature. When I was reading through the New Testament for the first time when I wasn't yet saved, even then I was astounded at how often Jesus challenged and rebuked the Pharisees, the religious leadership of the day. Especially when I got to Matthew 23. I am very grateful to the Lord and believe that it was His doing that I retained this understanding, and not the wicked philosophies I could have fallen deep into by playing in the devils' playground.

These conclusions I did not realize at all until after I was saved, and they really shocked me when I was given this understanding of what the game is actually teaching. Because I've only shared only a tiny fraction of the details in this game to expose it; all these wicked philosophies are hidden behind an emotional story, immersive graphics, and music that pulls the heart strings. Behind all this beauty our natural instinct isn't to suspect evil. With other videogames that have such offensive and sinful philosophies, are often more explicit, darker in tone, and vulgar. Whereas in this game, while it is dark in a sense, it is more tragic, and despite that it remains pleasing to the senses. It would be similar comparing death metal to a Disney musical.

Another point to consider as well, in these videos games, you spend at least 40 hours completing the game, a lot more time than a movie and even a lot of television series. And because you play as the characters as well, and watch them become stronger as you level them up, you become even more attached to the characters and the ideas of the game. Thus learning the philosophies of the game.

Many other installments in the series use Catholic or actual Christian concepts in their storylines. In the 13th and 14th installments have obvious pope figures, and in the 15th the main character is another Jesus figure who dies to save his kingdom from this disease which is supposed to represent sin. (But disease is afflicted on to people, it isn't brought upon themselves like actual sin.) There are many more allusions throughout the series as well, and many other corrupting philosophies. But number 10 I'd say is the worst offender, and teaches corrupt philosophies that pertain most closely to the gospel of Christ. And it is one of the best selling and most popular/esteemed in the series, in the top 3 or 5 in both categories.

I hope that I was clear enough throughout this post, and that the plot summary isn't too difficult to understand. Happy to clarify on anything for anyone. Hopefully there's some insight in here and that it is valuable!

I am so thankful for Chris writing the Videogames article, because there are so very few people out there speaking against this kind of stuff. Even many so called Christians that are against witchcraft in media in general, like Harry Potter, will make very many exceptions, such as my own parents. And if someone hadn't clearly laid out the sin within the videogames I played, who knows if I would have ever given them up.
Far more crucially though, through the article I was led to the truth about repentance, and that I needed to repent for my idolatry and witchcraft (in heart) as well as turn from it, along with my other sins. So that my sins could be remitted and that I could be born again! I am therefore extremely grateful, and hope to add my voice more loudly to those speaking the truth about the works of videogames.

4

Evangelism / Do all conversions look the same?

« on: January 16, 2021, 01:04:49 AM »

This is a question I've been considering for a fair while now. For myself and many others on the forum that I've read, we can pinpoint an event, and know when we came to repentance towards God and thus when we were converted. And these events are typically quite dramatic, with a lot of tears and grief, and after which, are lives change majorly, and we begin warring against the flesh.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Acts 3:19

Repentance is clearly necessary for salvation, but can everyone that is saved pinpoint more or less when they received repentance? Or could they receive repentance perhaps a bit slower, in a more subtle and less obvious way that they didn't notice or it didn't really stick out to them when it happened? (And of course some people are already are repentant and humbled and just need to believe, like the prison keeper in Acts 16. But I think probably the majority of the forum had a decent understanding of the importance of believing in Christ and what he did before being saved.) It seems a lot of people are unware when the foundation of repentance is laid in ones heart. However we know in most cases it is not.

Why I ask is that I wish to be more vocal and outspoken about repentance with those that I know, but I don't want to cause those that I am confident are saved to doubt their salvation (though I want to have certainty with them), but I want those that I believe to be false converts, like I once was, to have fear.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? -Matthew 7:16

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. - Philippians 2:12

Those that I am quite confident in their salvation have been very receptive and thought it made sense. But those that I am confident are false have mocked it.

Hopefully my question is clear enough, but more than happy to clarify.

5

Bible Discussion / How to study the Bible?

« on: June 27, 2020, 08:17:29 PM »

Hello everyone!

I am curious to know how you guys approach your personal studying of the Bible.
A couple of months ago I finished reading through the Bible, just going through it at a fast pace, just to have read it through once. Since then, I have been going through Genesis again but a lot more slowly and taking notes. But I would like some more ideas on how I should go about it.
 
More precisely some of the things I am wondering: do you focus on studying one book at a time? How do you decide what book to study? And if you want to study by topic, how do you approach that?
Are there any major differences in how you approach studying the Old Testament compared to the New Testament? Such as an epistle versus a large book like the books of Moses or Isaiah?
What kind of things do you take note of?
What do you use to take notes and why; pen and paper or do you type on a computer?
Any guidelines on memorising scripture and what scripture to memorise?

Any wisdom you have I'd love to hear it

6

Bible Discussion / Debt

« on: March 06, 2020, 07:05:20 AM »

Hi everyone!

So I've been thinking a lot about debt recently after hearing Proverbs 22:7 and Chris talking about paying off debt in the recent teachings on tithe.

The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
- Proverbs 22:7

Which straight away brought to mind;

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. - Matthew - 6:24

At the moment I am currently studying at university, which of course means a student loan. Since hearing the proverb, the fact of being debt has been weighing on my concious quite considerably. I never considered there were biblical consequences for being in debt.

But I guess that explains why modern society is essentially designed to place everyone in debt.

So now I'm making it a priority to pay off my debt and my likely course of action is to study part time, and work nearly full time, as well as look into other avenues, such as tutoring. If I do this I would be able to pay off my loan in a decent amount of time.
However I'm unsure if I should prioritize it even further, as I still lack a full understanding of the matter. Would it be better to completely halt my studies and work full-time until I paid my entire loan off? I am more reluctant to do that, but if it's what is necessary I will seek to do so.

I would very much appreciate any understanding, experience, or advice anyone might have.

Best Wishes,

Joshua

7

Bible Discussion / Sanctification

« on: January 07, 2020, 09:04:07 AM »

Hello again!

So I understand that sanctification is of great importance for born again Christians, that it is commanded of us and that Christ prayed that we would be sanctified. Since understanding this I've made efforts to distance myself from certain people and be very cautious of who I spend my time with. But I am still unsure of how I should navigate certain situations.

My main question that I'm pondering is, at what point is someone failing to sanctify themselves?

I think with the majority of people that I know (that are not believers) I am sufficiently sanctified from (though I'll let you guys judge that). For example with most of my friends from highschool (whom I shared interests in things that I have largely removed from my life such as videogames, movies and tv shows, drinking), I have stopped efforts to keep in contact with. When I run into them, or they happen to message me, I talk to them as normal and tend to avoid certain topics.
However I did meet with a number of my old high school friends for one of their birthdays (I left very early.) So I'm not shutting them off completely, I am wanting to keep somewhat of a connection with them so I can one day share the truth with them. Which I hope to do once I can adequately address the questions I know they'll have.
I am approaching more people in my life in this kind of manner; not seeking to be in their company any longer than necessary but aim to be friendly and kind when dealing with them, and also explaining to them why I won't do certain things if necessary.

But the area I am unsure of the most is being involved in the prolife club, which I mentioned in my introduction post. 1 Corinthians commands us not to be unequally yolked with unbelievers. Now I have confidence that there are born again Christians that are involved in the club, but there are also a lot of catholics and other church goes types, which would classify as unbelievers. The context of yolking is with cattle ploughing a field. If my understanding is correct, it's not working together (as in having coworkers who aren't believers like at a workplace) but instead uniting with and working towards a common goal with an unbeliever. Therefore is there any capacity that I can be involved in the prolife club and be sanctified? Or is any affliation whatsoever yolking myself with unbelievers?
I had plans to organise things in such a way where I spend minimal amount of time in the company of catholics etc, like solely at our discussion meetings. As well as be more plain and open about my opinion on things like the catholic church and other such matters. But if even that still means I'm not sanctified then that's something I'm gonna have to fix.

I would really appreciate anyone's thoughts on the understanding I've demonstrated, as well as how you yourselves approach the goal of being sanctified in your own lives.

Thanks!

Joshua JZB

8

Introduce Yourself / Hello from NZ!

« on: January 01, 2020, 06:09:31 PM »

Good day to you all!

My name is Joshua, I am 20 years old, and I am from New Zealand. I found the CLE website around this time last year (late Dec 2018) after doing a google search and finding the article "Videogames: Causing Witchcraft to Prosper".  This article wasn't what I was hoping to find from that search.
My older sister had just entered my room and ranted to me about how she was "tired of [my] witchcraft". As she was giving me this rebuke, I was playing one of my videogames, which you may have guessed, was full of witchcraft. Though she was more emphasizing the figurines of imaginary spirit beings I had recently purchased at a videogame convention (context: I am living with my sister and her family, and earlier that year I bought a book that caused some paranormal activity in the house, but that's another story.)
Having my conscience rattled, I immediately sought to justify myself by seeing what other Chirstians had to say about the matter so I could try and convince myself that what I was doing in my videogames "wasn't real witchcraft". Needless to say things didn't go as I had planned and I thank the Lord that it didn't.

After having the truth pointed out to me plainly (of which I was already aware) I couldn't look past the wickedness of witchcraft in the videogames I played any longer. I then became very sorrowful, but not towards God; it was a sorrow of the world, where I grieved over my videogames, and how I knew I would have to give them up. Rather than grieving over how I had wronged God. I then continued on to read "Fantasy Novels: An Invitation to Hell", where I discovered that I cherished a lot of other wicked things. I continued to look at more articles and quickly found the audio/youtube section, which was such a blessing at the time as I was strawberry picking the time so having hundreds of hours of teachings to listen to was fantastic (and still is as I listen to them whilst driving, walking, or doing stuff around the house.) I was becoming so surprised at all the different things I was learning and how ignorant I was to the truth of many things, and how wicked and lukewarm a lot of people that call themselves chirstians are. And it was slowly occuring to me that I was one of them too.
What the game changer was for me was listening to the "Is Repentance part of Salvation?" teaching. Everything started clicking and making sense.

I met this strongly conservative, philosophical PhD student that year who was raised in a weakly catholic/religious household. I ran into him on my way to church one day and he told me he was convinced the Bible wasn't true because he had said the sinner's prayer and "accepted Jesus into his heart" and what not, about 7 times, but nothing happened he told me. I had no answer for him, and I found that very troubling.
I myself was lead through a sinner's prayer by my mother near the end of my last year at highschool (about 2.2 years ago, which I remember cringing while saying), and then also again a few months later by one of my best mate's from highschool. But neither events were dramatic. It was just like, "Well I guess I believe in Jesus now."
However, once I had been given the knowledge that I needed to repent for my sins, I asked God, while confessing my sins and acknowledging my guilt, for repentance. Later that night in late Januray I woke up suddenly and I just started weeping and crying with sorrow unto God for all the wrong I had done unto him. I wrote down a confession and apology to God for all the sins I was concious I had broken (very many), with a strong emphasizing my sin of witchcraft and idolatry through videogames, whilst at the same time calling myself a Christian, and thus taking the Lord's name in vain. This was when I came to true faith and repentance in Jesus Christ, given to me by him, of which I am so grateful, and shall be so eternally.

Since then it has been a process of removing sin and worldy things out of my life and sanctifying myself from different things and different people. It's been quite the struggle; my wicked heart was and is fond of many things of this world, but I thank the Lord for his grace and mercy and his patience with me in this process. Yet I am still in that process and really feel like I need the advice of other Christians, which is one of the many reasons I finally decided to join the forum.

I will be asking questions on the forum later on, but now I will go into more details about how I got to this point and a bit where I've been since.

(I realise this post is already quite long and it's about to get a whole lot longer for which I apologise greatly for those reading on! Also I apologise for any inaccuricies and gramatical mistakes, but I think I got most of them now.)

So now I will go into a bit of background of my upbringing and my journey up until this point. I am from a family of 8 children (I am number 6.) Both of my parents were raised going to churches. When I was around about 4 or 5 years old, we stopped going to the church we had been going (it may have been a baptist or alliance church, I'm not sure) because my parents had discovered that Christmas celebrations were an abomination unto God. So thankfully I grew up with very little to do with Christmas celebrations and things of the like. But we did end up "celebrating" was probably just as bad.

We then began attending this church building of the denomination "The Living Church of God". I remember few specifics of what they taught, but it was very culty. From what I understand from what my sister told me, to join you needed to do weeks (may have been a year) of home "bible study" using their resources and recordings. Then you needed to have some interviews with them, and you also needed to pay a significant portion of your income for tithe (more than 10% I think.) I have also heard that they were a precursor to the Hebrew Roots movement; the church taught to meet on and "keep" the Sabbath day and the holy feasts (including The Day of Atonement), and follow the dietary laws, but I don't think there was too much else. We were there for about 6-7 years until, for some reason I'm unsure of, we decided to stop going.
I remember the church building and the people there as feeling very bleak and cold, and dull, even when the sun was shining. The services seemed to stretch on for eternity and I never learned a thing. But they sang enough to keep me somewhat entertained and there was another family with young kids that were fun to play with. Yet probably the most lasting impact the church had on me that it gave me an existential fear of the end of the world. It was like this impending doom that could descend upon on at any moment, very unbiblical. It really filled me with anxiety from an early age and had quite a significant impact on me.

At the same time we stopped attending that church, my granny started needing full time care so my parents, me, and my younger siblings would stay at her house to look after her for a portion of the week in collaboration with extended family. From here my family just stopped attending church buildings altogether. But my father got even more sucked into the Law of Moses "keeping", and we started doing a few more things, like reciting the Shema every day, nailing the Torah to our house and gateposts. My dad got me and my younger brother (he did himself too) to write out the commandments of the Torah, all 613! It was a pretty tedious task for an 11 year old and I find it so strange to think back upon these days. Yet though we thought we were keeping the Torah, obviously we really weren't. Neither were we diligent in doing so (after reading the "Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?" article I can't help but laugh at our "sabbath keeping".) Year after year we were more slack with "keeping" the commandments of the Torah. We'd forget more and more holy days, and eventually all our Torah keeping was reduced down to saying the Shema in the morning (as a family, when we'd remember.)

This whole time I understood nothing about Jesus Christ, who he was, what he did or why it was so crucial. I grew up with the impression that the entire New Testament was false. My dad fell for the "Paul was a liar" junk and would repeatedly say "The Lord our God is one Lord" with the implication that Jesus couldn't be God because then that would make God more than one.
But we didn't study the Old Testament scripture itself either. Any "biblical knowledge" I had heading into my teenage years came from what I remembered from bible stories, read from story books rather than the actual bible.

Heading into high school with such a weak biblical foundation wasn't great, though it definitely could have been worse. My siblings and I had all been homeschooled up until the point where we were of age to go to high school, however I had missed the first two years of high school because I insisted that I wouldn't go to highschool until we moved up to my parents farm (a safer place to be for the end of the world I thought.) Which I am thankful because my older siblings were sent to a Seventh Day Adventist high school (my dad sent them there because at least they kept the Sabbath, and therefore no sports on Saturdays etc) cause I would have went there as well.
My incredible social awkardness from being homeschooled my whole life and the lack of effort by my parents to socialise managed to score me some kind and behaved friends.The Lord also put in my life two Christians (though maybe not at the time), whom I value highly, into my life, that began shifting my perspective and philosophies away from the leftist communist philosophies I held.
Yet I made more friends with people who were into a lot of the same wicked videogames, movies, tv shows, etc that I was into myself, which lead me into the wickedness of drinking among other things. I remember very clearly thinking of an excuse before I commited some sins "oh I'm pretty sure that's only in the new testament." So much about my thinking was wickedly wrong, and I was ignorant and unsure of things, but I didn't care to check of course. I had no understanding of sin or it's consequences, nor did I seem to care.

Eventually my mother realised that our family had really gone far off the track with our Hebrew Rootsish beliefs (though very lukewarm they were at the time), and that's when she got me and my little sister to say a sinner's prayer and to accept Jesus as our Lord and saviour. I did so willingly because I realised our hypocrisy and failiure in "keeping" the Torah, and could clearly see there were no good fruits beared from my family by doing so. Though I wasn't saved at this point, I do believe God started working in my life more from this point. One of my best mates (one of the two Christians),  explained to me how sin separates us from God, and why Jesus had to die on the cross. (Though my understanding was that sin was the problem, and not me who comitted the sin.) He also got me a bible (unfortunately it was an NLT and not a KJV) and over the summer holidays I read through the New Testamant. Looking back, not much of it sank it or convicted me much at all (probably partly because it was not the KJV and I went through it quite fast) but I do remember I found it fascinating how much Jesus rebuked the scribes and pharisees. At that time I already had an understanding of the hypocrisy of pastors and christians, but also the catholic priests and their child abuse scandals.

This was the summer between my last year of highschool and first year of university (summer in NZ is from December to February.) At the moment I have finished my second year of university where I'm doing a bachelor of science, majoring in physics and chemistry (though it's science, since I'm not doing anything biology related thankfully evolution almost never comes up. Though with physics often big bang talk will come up and stuff which is annoying but it's rare enough to be tolerable.)
Seeking to meet more christians I sought out a university chirstian club to join. However, I left it a bit late, and only remembered on the very last day of the clubs expo in the late day of the afternoon. So I made my way over to the stalls and there was only one christian club remaining, named simply "Christian Club". So I joined without much thought and started attending there meetings. What I didn't realise was that nearly all the club members consisted of members from this singular denomination filled with more a lot more heresies than your average church building. From one cult to another I began attending their church building for about a year (until early 2019) and was baptized by them.

The denomination/sect (they considered themselves non-denominational) is known as the Local Churches, or the Lord's Recovery. I looked past a lot of the red flags; they had their own unique bible version (the recovery version), their own publishing company (Living Stream Ministies), their bibles contained more footnotes of their church father (Witness Lee) than actual scripture (no joke, there were some pages where there were one or two verses and the rest of the page was footnotes), they had really strange definitions for different biblical terms (like they defined grace as "God as our enjoyment", like what?). But I went along with it because I got along with them fairly well and they were nice and friendly (though I never really connected with any of them in a meaningful level) and also because I appreciated ways in which they were different from other church buildings. After coming to repentance however, I found the testimony of an ex-member who went into detail about a lot of their heresies (the most shocking one for me was that they reject the authority of certain scriptures, such as James and a number of the Psalms.) Since then I ceased contact with any of them.

Some good came from being there though. They had a sermon on idolatry when I was visitng their bible school (yeah they have quite a few around the world) which really shook my conscious because I had to admit myself the truth that I had made many things my idols, my videogames, music, etc etc (though I do believe they weren't teaching correctly on the matter either.) During the sermon I was overcome with this intense anger, so much so that it gave me a headache for like a good two hours! Never experienced anything like it. But it laid the ground work for when I came across the videogame article, because I came across it about two weeks after.

That brings us to the year just past. As I mentioned before, I have been slowly becoming more sanctified and ridding myself of sin, for which I thank God because I largely haven't done so willingly but by conviction from the Holy Spirit. Videogames took a lot longer to deal with; I admitted some of them were wicked but it took longer for me to admit others were too, (and that took A LOT of conviction.)
 I also am very cautious of who I spend my time with now and seek to avoid people (which has been the most difficult but God's grace is sufficient) as I am seeking to be sanctified. Yet this is an area where I could really use some guidance, specifically in how I should go about setting boundaries with certain people etc, (but I will ask this in another post!) 

The main reason with this is area is a headache for me is because I have gotten myself very involved in the prolife movement on campus. So we have a prolife club at my university, the most popular club on campus! (it has had, I think 5 disaffiliation attempts by various socialists and feminists over the past decade lol.) I discovered the club existed in my second semester and was quite eager to get involved but I didn't really do much because of times constraints. At the time my first cousin's once removed cousin was running the club (maybe don't both trying to figure out what the means.) I knew him because a lot of my dad's side of the family attends the same Reformed church building as his family. I knew him through them and I also attended the church's scouts program they had when I was younger (around 5-8.)
Towards the end of that year he was quite desperate for someone to take over the club, so he offered it to me (he must have been really desperate.) In complete shock but also excited by the idea of getting so heavily involved I eventually accepted. However, as Chris rightly points out in his article on abortion, being involved in prolife movements means yolking up with catholics and such like them. This was another thing I didn't want to hear at the time I heard it. But slowly over time it has bothered me more and more. I am supposed to be heading the club next year as well, and I'm not sure how I'm going to get myself out of it, but I will go into more detail later.

For many various motivations and reasons, none of them being very legitimate, I attended the Reformed Church for a few months (I stopped going about one and a half months ago so this was recent.) It was the church life that could have been; a nice and normal church building to attend like the rest of my extended family, as opposed to the wacky Hebrew Rootsy church we went to.
But I knew it was leavened, just from witnessing the fruit of my uncles and aunties and observing how my cousins turned out, but I suppose I wanted to have a look myself. They preach tithe, every sermon they'd have the offering baskets and it made me sicker and sicker each time, even before I knew how bad it was. Among some other strange things, they are also calvinist, which I think contributed to the deathly cold vibes I got from the place. They don't have any significant forms of evangelism besides inviting people to church. It seems the thinking is, "God will save who we will save therefore there's no point in trying to get people saved." It was very difficult to talk to people and the conversation often felt superficial.

I used to tell christians that me and my siblings grew up with "unstable theological foundations" after explaining to them the strange cherry-picked Jewish traditions of my parents and how they seemed to have drastically different beliefs every 5 years. But I've now realised that there is far fewer people with stable theological foundations because they are not truely resting upon Jesus Christ.
There are so many people I know and cherish, whether they identify as a Christian or not, that I desire so strongly to share the truth with. But there's so much I have to learn, and yet so much work needed to be done on myself as well.

Which is why I'm so happy and thankful unto God there's a whole bunch of people here online that I can trust to help me with that! Thank you for reading my very long introduction and I hope I didn't bore anyone too much; I may have overshared a fair bit but it seemed good to share what I have.
I so appreciate Chris', Lorraine's, and everyone else's continual hard work they put into this ministry and I thank and praise the Lord for it. I've already learned more than I've ever known my whole life and I look forward to learning even more about the truth of God's Word.
I pray that one day I would be a blessing to you all some day and I look forward to conversing with everyone!

God bless you all!