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Bible Discussion / Re: Easter Contradictions and Mike Winger: How long was Jesus in the Tomb?

« on: April 07, 2023, 08:27:17 AM »

If that was a metaphorical interpretation, then it's not a sign. A sign has to be literal, so people can see it clearly to know it is a sign. We don't have metaphorical stop signs; they must be literal so people will stop at them.

That's such a great point, I hadn't thought of that before. It cements the contradiction between Matthew 12:40 and the Easter tradition even further, and this understanding will help me with my general interpretation of scripture.
I had a discussion about the end times a while ago and the idea that the end time signs, like the sun being darkened and the moon not shining, being figurative was brought up. And I couldn't come up with any good reasons why that wasn't the case, I could only express that I thought it was silly. But now I know the answer is metaphorical stop signs.

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Bible Discussion / Easter Contradictions and Mike Winger: How long was Jesus in the Tomb?

« on: April 07, 2023, 01:04:39 AM »

On last year's Easter Sunday morning, I was scrolling through Facebook and was met with all these "He Is Risen" posts being shared by a number of people. It irked me to the point where I felt compelled to post something, so I gave what I reckon is the simplest argument that dismantles Easter's credibility.

'If Easter is indeed about the death and resurrection of Jesus, dying on Good Friday, and being raised on Easter Sunday, how can you fit 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) between these two days?
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." - Matthew 12:40
An example where scripture doesn't fit into this tradition of men.'

Chris includes this point in his "Easter: Christians Celebrating Abomination"(https://www.creationliberty.com/articles/easter.php) and uses this helpful visual to better understand the problem. Simply, if Jesus died on "Good" Friday, then Jesus would have rose again on Monday in order for three days and nights to have passed according to Matthew 12:40.

Anyone claiming to respect the authority of scripture can't ignore this clear contradiction. Or at least they can't ignore it as easily as they seem to ignore evidence of any pagan connections.
It was interesting the responses, a couple agreed and I had one scoffer, but only a couple tried defending it. The main defense consisted of baseless claims that the Jews count days differently and that partial days were included in the count, so that it wasn't actually a full 72 hour period.

In my responses I explained that no matter how you try counting between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning, there's no way that you can get 3 nights between them, there's only Friday and Saturday night. This point without a doubt shows the incompatibility of Easter with Scripture.
Next I explained how we know that Jesus' tomb was found empty on Sunday morning (Mark 16:1-6). Now we know that Jesus died on the preparation day, the day before a Sabbath. Most preparation days are Fridays which is before the weekly Sabbaths on Saturday. We learn from John that this preparation day was for a high Sabbath (which would have been the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.)

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." - John 19:31

The high Sabbath doesn't have to fall on the same day as the weekly Sabbath, Saturday, and therefore the preparation Day doesn't have to be a Friday. And seeing three days and three nights can't fit between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning, it definitely was not a Friday.

The final point I made was "seeing as the tradition of Easter is passed down by the Catholic Church, it's no wonder they got this most basic fact wrong (3 days 3 nights), seeing as they don't care at all what scripture has to say. Nor is it even necessary to celebrate Christ's resurrection annually; it's something we should always be celebrating."

Now comes in Mike Winger. My friend sent me Winger's "13 Bible Contradictions refuted: Evidence for the Bible pt19" (https://youtu.be/uoLYyyqijfU?t=1069), along with the comment that he was now content with the timing of Easter. The relevant contradiction doesn't have anything to do with Easter directly, but it does justify its timing.

At 17:49, Winger addresses the seeming contradiction between Christ saying that He will rise again the third day and Matthew 12:40 where He says that He would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The contradiction is perceived as follows:
If Christ rose on the third day, then that means He wasn't in the tomb for three days and three nights, because He would have risen before the third night which is after the third day. And if Christ was in the tomb three days and three nights, then that means He would have rose on the fourth day, not the third day. Because if He rose after the third night, that would make it the fourth day.

Mike's solution is that three days and three nights is an idiom, that doesn't actually mean a 72 hour period. He points to multiple Old Testament passages, such as 1 Samuel 30 12:-13, where similar seeming contradictions appear.
Mike gives the modern misuse of the word literally, such as "I literally died" (when the speaker obviously has not died), as a comparison to how the Jews were using the phrase "three days and three nights." He claims this was just the way Jews used the phrase and was to do with how they considered time, citing the Babylonian Talmud as his only support for this assertion. He puts it down as a "peculiarity of language."

I hope others find this argument as absurd as I did. It took me a little while to realise, but I think the seeming contradiction Winger is trying to address is easily resolved by considering that Jews count their days from sunset to sunset.

"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." - Genesis 1:5

So the nighttime is considered first and then the daytime. So when Christ rose the third day, He had already been in the tomb for three nights. The correct way of counting: night 1, day 1, night 2, day 2, night 3, day 3 = Resurrection Day.

It helped that this way of considering days was engrained in my mind when my family and I "kept" the Sabbath when growing up, which starts on Friday's sunset and at Saturday's sunset. But it's still surprising to me that something so simple was overseen, and instead Winger settled with a very questionable resolution. The blinding of the Easter tradition was likely a big factor (not to mention general blindness.)

Lastly, I eventually stumbled across 2 very short videos from a very deceitful Hebrew Roots ministry. While they are corrupt, they make a very sound argument in these videos that effectively and thoroughly explains the matter while showing the absurdity of the Easter timing. Here are the links, but if you rather not watch it I explain and expand on their argument below, but the video's visuals are useful. (Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RVxGgo0D08 Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzVSrrCpOS8)

The argument they present is as follows:

• They begin by quoting Matthew 12:40 - "so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." The phrase 'in the heart of the earth, referring to the amount of time Jesus' body spent in the tomb. 
• Next they quote John 11:9 - "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world." Therefore by Jesus' own words we know that when He talks about a day in terms of time, He is talking about a period of 12 hours, and correspondingly there are 12 hours during the night. This evidence that supports the fact that Matthew 12:40 must be talking about a 72 hour period when it talks about three days and three nights.
• According to Matthew 27:46 Jesus died around the ninth hour of the daytime, which would be about 3:00pm. Which is close to the evening hours so they do not count this as part of the three days and three nights. I reckon that its plausible to have taken until just before sunset to place Jesus inside the tomb, so I find this to be reasonable.
• "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." - Mark 16:9 As discussed before, the Jews count their days beginning at sunset, so early the first day would be Saturday night. This is supported by John 20:1 - "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." Mary arrived at the tomb on the first day of the week, around the time of sunrise, which would be Sunday morning, and the tomb was empty.
• Counting back from Saturday night three day and three nights, brings us to Wednesday night. So Jesus would have died on Wednesday day. John 19:31 shows the day Jesus died was the preparation Day and the following day was a Sabbath. The first day of Unleavened Bread is a high Sabbath. (Lev 23:7) This is further supported by Mark 16:1-2 - "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun." The Sabbath that past could not have been the weekly Sabbath, because there would have been no time to buy the spices between the end of the weekly Sabbath and the following first day of the week. Indicating there must have been two sabbaths, the high and weekly one. So she would have bought the spices after the high Sabbath on the Friday.

I find this to be quite a sound and comprehensive argument. But it's worth noting that sound arguments like these showing the errors of the Catholic-Pagan holidays seem to be used to draw people into Hebrew Roots / Sabbath keeping beliefs, by afterwards presenting arguments that also sound reasonable but are actually fallacious. I remember growing up and my dad making a big deal about the pagan origins and contradictions of Christmas and Easter and I speculate that opened his mind to the Sabbath keeping cult we were apart of. It seems that anyone who steers clear from Easter, Christmas and the like are either sanctified born again Christians, or a works-based Sabbath "keeper" of some sort.

I hope this wasn't too difficult to follow. I certainly got confused thinking through the days. I would greatly appreciate correction to any of the conclusions I've made if there are any errors and for further insights anyone is able to offer.   

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General Discussion / Re: First try at fasting

« on: March 06, 2023, 08:00:47 AM »

and so far it's been the strongest help I've ever had.

I've had the same experience, I have found fasting instrumental in battling various lust problems. So underrated! But I usually just do short fasts so I can fit it around work. I just wish it were easier and that I was more disciplined and consistent at it.

I've noticed for myself that eating a high protein, high fat, low carb as my last meal before seems to make it a lot easier. Especially the first 24 hours. Also I love bone broth, in general, but especially to break a fast, if I have any.

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Evangelism / Re: Passing Out Tracts

« on: March 06, 2023, 07:37:02 AM »

As long as they aren't scary looking like these!



A few months ago, two of these pamphlets were left on my windscreen one evening. They greeted me as I entered my car after my shift which finished at midnight - gave me a good fright lol It was to advertise for a local Seventh Day Adventist Reformed Movement event (not sure how they are different from regular SDAs.)

Encouraging to hear that you're getting material out there. This year I really want to start doing some public evangelism and getting material out there myself - to me this seems like a really good start.

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Evangelism / Re: An Explanation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

« on: February 13, 2023, 10:26:07 AM »

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. Now that I think about it, I could probably do with referencing Satan more. The only scripture that does, that I have quoted, is Matthew 25:41 "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

While Genesis 3:15 is good for demonstrating that Jesus came and conquered Satan, I think that it would require a bit too much explanation and difficult to understand for someone that doesn't know much about the Bible. I would probably just quote John 8:44 as you mentioned along with 1 John 3:8.

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." - 1 John 3:8

However, explaining Genesis 3:15 also demonstrates how prophecies made thousands of years have been fulfilled by Christ. So that could be worth demonstrating. So thanks again for the suggestion.

It's hard to know when to stop with these things though, as there is so many things one could explain! Another verse I want to include is Psalm 38:18, along with more emphasis on confession.

"For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin." - Psalm 38:18



Hi Annalisa,

Really glad that you enjoyed reading it and that you liked it so much. Like Rowan M, I recognized your username from the Sound the Battle Cry channel comments so it's really cool to see you here as well. I have really enjoyed reading your posts!

I quoted James 1:17 there to support the statement,

"Whatever it may be that we love more than the God Who has given us every good thing in our lives, we become idolaters in our hearts."

But after thinking about it, I think it would be more powerful quoted after where you suggest. It would add a lot more clarity to the point I'm trying to get across. And it answers the question to 1 Co 4:7, so it makes more sense to quote it after, than before it. So thanks for that!

I've learned again that what makes sense and is straight forward in my mind isn't necessarily so straight forward after all! I had a lot of help from Rowan M and he similarly helped me make a lot of things clearer, and improved the quality of the writing greatly.

I'm not sure when I'll make an updated version, but probably when I have a few more things I want to change. At the moment I have a version up on my Facebook and Instagram bios, and I've pinned a link to it on my Facebook profile. So anyone visiting my profile won't be able to miss it.
The only major difference is that I added "Jesus Came to Heal the Brokenhearted, not the Stonyhearted" from the Sound the Battle Cry to the recommended teachings. I think it highlights the need for godly sorrow really well, and I think its good to have multiple ministries as witnesses to the need for it. So far there's been 64 views so hopefully a portion of them actually read it through. Even if just a few seeds are sown well that would be awesome. 

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Evangelism / An Explanation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

« on: January 22, 2023, 09:15:55 AM »

The following is an explanation of the Gospel that I have been slowly working on for the past few months. I decided to make this so that I could link to it in my social media bios (the main reason why I haven't deleted them.) A big motivation for doing so is to start being more outspoken, so that people can know where I stand. And ultimately for the hope that as many people as possible could be reached with the Gospel message in its entirety.

Here is a link to the PDF version: https://docdro.id/IFW5Hs3 - I have also attached the PDF file to this post in case anyone wants it.

I have hyperlinked (in the PDF version) Christopher's "Why Millions of Believers are Going to Hell", "There is No Saving Grace Without Repentance", and "Jesus said There Are Many False Converts" under the 'Recommended Teachings' to refer people to after the section I've titled "A Warning for False Converts". I have also linked to various books of the Bible that I think are good places to start, again just in the PDF version.

My intentions for posting it here: so that others can ensure no doctrinal errors have been made and for any feedback for improvements one might have to give. As well as for the edification of others, and so that people can pray for it if they wish to.

Big thanks to Rowan M for helping me proofread this and for vastly improving the clarity and quality of what is written.
 

Salvation from the Wrath to Come - The Gospel of Jesus Christ

"... Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death."
- Jeremiah 21:8

God, Who made heaven and earth and all therein, has revealed to mankind the way that leads to life and the way that leads to death. By His word, the Holy Bible, we are able to clearly know these two ways, and through His grace, we may choose the way we will go.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
- Proverbs 14:12

"In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death."
- Proverbs 12:28

The Law: Thou shalt love thy Neighbour


God reveals the way of life and death through His laws. God gave us His laws for all people to abide by. When we break the laws of God, we sin against Him, and the result of sin is death.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
- 1 John 3:4

"Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
- James 1:15

In the following verses, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, gives a number of these laws:

"... Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
- Matthew 19:18-19

It is sin against God to murder, to have sex outside of marriage, to steal, and to lie. These are all examples of hating one's neighbour, yet Jesus commands us to "love thy neighbour as thyself."


To take a life through murder is one of the greatest acts of hatred that one can do to his neighbour. For a person to end the innocent life of another grieves God immensely.

"And [God] said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground."
- Genesis 4:10

The relationship of marriage is one that is sacred, where God spiritually joins a man and a woman, making them one flesh. The Bible tells us that a wife belongs to her husband, and a husband to his wife. To commit adultery breaks this relationship, destroying families.

"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
- Mark 10:9

To steal is to take something that does not belong to you, to violate the property rights of another person.

"Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell."
- Proverbs 9:16-17

To lie to someone is to tell them something that is not true, to deceive them.

"A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin."
- Proverbs 26:20

The Law: The Heart


Many people have told a few lies, or maybe a countless number of them, maybe stolen something one time, but at least they've never been unfaithful or killed anyone, right? Jesus tells us,

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: ..."
- Matthew 5:21-22

Being angry with someone for no reason, or an unjustified reason, and harbouring that hatred against them is seen as murderous intent by God and will be judged the same way by Him. Such unjust reasons may include various hateful prejudices, such as of race, sex, or class, or differences that wound one's pride. Jesus also tells us,

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
-Matthew 5:27-28

Those who lust after others are guilty of adultery and/or fornication in their hearts, whether they do so out in public, or privately through viewing pornography, or secretly through their imagination. Jesus shows us that without even committing sin physically, we can still be guilty of a sin by committing it within our hearts; this is true for all sins.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."
- Mark 7:21-23

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
- Jeremiah 17:9

The Law: Thou shalt love thy the Lord thy God


We don't want to be murdered, cheated on, stolen from, or lied to, so we shouldn't do these things to others. To do these things is to hate our neighbours, not to love them as ourselves, as Jesus commanded. Nor should there be any place in our hearts and minds to do this evil unto them. Yet when we hate our neighbour so, we hate God as well, as we rebel against His laws. In fact, Jesus reveals to us that all of God's laws can be summarised by two commandments:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
- Matthew 22:37-40

Many people openly hate and despise the Christian God of the Bible. However, though others might not openly curse God, they can still show hatred to Him through the sin of idolatry. God commands,

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
- Exodus 20:3

Those of false religions, who worship false gods in place of the God of the Bible, are guilty of the sin of idolatry.

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD and there is none else."
- Isaiah 45:5-6

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
- Romans 1:20

"Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else."
- Deuteronomy 4:39

Though one might not worship a god of a false religion, there are many things people worship in the place of God. These things could include money, other people, their passions, or their hobbies. Whatever it may be that we love more than the God Who has given us every good thing in our lives, we become idolaters in our hearts. Even if we don't physically bow down to worship these things, in our hearts we do worship them.

"Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?"
- Ezekiel 14:3

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
- James 1:17

As well as their idols, people believe in their hearts that they themselves are worthy of praise and worship, through the sin of pride. Though we often will not admit it, in our minds it is our nature to think ourselves better than others. Maybe because we might have more talent, wealth, beauty, or intelligence than another, we exalt ourselves in our minds above them. Yet the question must be asked,

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"
- 1 Corinthians 4:7

Everything we have, even the ability to work to obtain the things that we have, are ultimately given to us from God. So to glorify ourselves in our pride makes no sense and is wicked. Worst of all is when people think that they are better than others morally. They think, 'At least I'm not like those evil people!' However, if anyone examines themselves against the laws of God honestly, they will find that they are guilty of the things that God hates.

"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
- Proverbs 6:16-19

"The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
- Psalm 14:2-3

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
- Romans 3:23

The Judgement: The Wrath to Come


Because all have sinned and broken God's laws, Jesus preached to all people commanding them to repent, which means to have godly sorrow for one's sins.

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
- Matthew 4:17

Jesus preached this because with the coming of the kingdom of God, all who sin will be punished justly, and those who commit such offences will have no part in His kingdom.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Those that are the servants of sin will have no place in the kingdom of God; where the laws of God will not be broken any longer. Jesus warns us where their ways will take them instead.

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
- Matthew 13:41-42

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night..."
- Revelation 14:10-11

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
- Matthew 25:41

This is the righteous judgement of God, Whose judgement will be executed in the day of judgement.

"Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first,
and also of the Gentile;"
- Romans 3:6-9

"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; ..."
- Acts 17:31

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
- Matthew 12:36

The Gospel: Jesus Christ the Son of God


By sinning against God through violating His laws, we have all chosen the way of death.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
- Ezekiel 18:4

This is not what God wants for anyone in this world, even the most evil people.

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
- Ezekiel 33:11

"But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth."
- Psalm 86:15

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
- Isaiah 1:28

We need our sins to be forgiven. However, God is a just and righteous judge, and His righteous wrath for our sin must be satisfied.
So God, in His tremendous mercy and love, made the greatest sacrifice that was ever made, that we may be saved from our rightful death and destruction, and instead be placed upon the way of life.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
- John 1:1-3

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
- John 1:14

The Almighty God, the creator of heaven and earth, humbled Himself by becoming a man. This man was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Who is God and one with His Father. On the earth, this is what He endured:

"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is
dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
- Isaiah 53:3-9

Christ came to this earth and lived a sinless life. Even though He did no evil, and in fact did many wonderful works, His life was filled with all these sufferings.

"Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached."
- Luke 7:22

Jesus Christ did all these wonderful and miraculous works, but despite all this and despite being the Holy God in the flesh, He was despised, oppressed, and afflicted. This was because Jesus lovingly warned the people of the coming judgement, and preached that they should have godly sorrow for their sins. But the people loved their sins, rather than the light of Jesus Christ.

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
- John 3:19

Christ continued in this affliction, up until He was "brought as a lamb to the slaughter;" Jesus was wrongly accused, the people demanding His death by crucifixion.

"But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. And [Pilate] said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go. And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed."
- Luke 23:21-23

"And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on theright hand, and the other on the left."
- Luke 23:33

Upon Him was laid, "the iniquity of us all," "and he made his grave with the wicked:"

Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross and died, so that we can be saved from the wrath to come. He died in our place and satisfied the wrath of God, so that we can receive the forgiveness of sins and be redeemed by His blood.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"
- Ephesians 1:7

"Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
- 1 Timothy 2:6

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
- Romans 5:8-10

Jesus Christ was then buried in a tomb. However, He did not remain dead - after three days and three nights, He rose from the grave.

"And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
- Luke 24:2-7

"And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon."
- Luke 24:33-34

"Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him."
- Romans 6:9

After appearing to His disciples, He ascended into heaven, where He now sits at the right hand of God.

"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."
- Mark 16:19

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
- 1 Timothy 3:16

The Gospel: Faith and Repentance

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
- 1 Timothy 1:15

The work of Christ to save sinners from death is finished and complete, and now this salvation is offered to all the world entirely by His grace; a gift of God, through faith and repentance.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life."
- John 3:16

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
- John 5:24

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
- John 11:25-26

If we believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God, Who died on the cross and rose again, we will not perish, but instead receive the gift of everlasting life!

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
- John 10:28

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
- Romans 6:23

If we believe, having our faith placed in Him, we may be justified in the sight of God by the imputing of Christ's righteousness unto us; God will see the righteousness of Christ instead of the sins which we have committed.

"And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;"
- Romans 4:22-24

"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
- Romans 3:22-24

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
- Romans 10:9-10

For if we believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, we must believe that we ourselves are sinners. That through our evil actions we grieve the holy and merciful God. And that the only innocent, most merciful and most charitable man had to suffer and die in our place in order for us to be saved from the eternal punishment that we are worthy to receive.
If we "believe [this] in [our] heart", it should break our hearts, and with broken hearts over our sin, we should call upon God, sorry that we have wronged Him.

"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit."
- Psalm 34:18

"A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
- Psalms 51:17

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
- Romans 10:13

"For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee."
- Psalms 86:5

If we accept these truths, we can readily see the true nature of our wretched state, how evil and vile we really are.

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"
- Revelation 3:17

"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
- Romans 7:24

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
- Job 42:5-6

And seeing our own brokenness and corruption, we can but mourn and weep to God.

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness."
- James 4:9

This is repentance; to have godly sorrow over one's sin. And those who are brought so low as to have godly sorrow over their iniquities, will be forgiven by God in His great mercies, and will have their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
- Acts 3:19

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
- 2 Corinthians 7:10

"For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."
- Isaiah 66:2

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."
- Matthew 5:3-5

"And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
- Luke 5:31-32

A repentant heart is the evidence of humility and meekness before God; for a prideful person won't even admit he does evil, let alone have grief towards God for the evil he does.
However, to receive God's grace, we must be humbled.

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
- James 4:6

We need to be as lowly and humbled as a child, as one that comes to their father in sorrow for their wrongdoing.

"And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy
son."
- Luke 15:21

"And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child,[/b] the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
- Matthew 18:2-4

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein."
- Luke 18:16-17

For we are more helpless than children to save ourselves from the consequences of our sin; there is no working our way out of the judgement of our sin. Just as it is impossible for a murderer to be justly absolved of his crimes by doing good deeds and charitable work, likewise it is impossible for sinners to be absolved of their sins by trying to do good works, or by trying to keep the laws of God which they have already broken.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
- Ephesian 2:8-9

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
- Titus 3:5

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
- Galatians 2:16

Because of the pride in their hearts, many believe by that participating in enough religious rituals (such as the wicked Catholic Mass), or doing enough good deeds, this will justify them in God's sight. However, the Bible is extremely clear: salvation is "not by works of righteousness which we have done." For in our wicked, natural state, we cannot even do good.

"They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
- Romans 3:12

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
- Isaiah 64:6

For us to even do good, we must be spiritually transformed; we must be born again, of the Spirit of God, and receive the Holy Spirit Who can renew us.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
- John 3:5

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
- 2 Corinthians 5:17

Then and only then, with the righteousness of Christ and the Holy Spirit, can we do any good.
And if we are born of His Spirit, then we are made God's children, and God's temple, the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. And His children will follow after His perfect and merciful ways and be sanctified from the world.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
- John 1:12-13

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."
- 2 Corinthians 6:16-18

And then with our Father will we dwell for all eternity.

"Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
- Revelation 7:14-17

"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."
- Psalm 23:6

A Warning for False Converts


There are many people in this world who call themselves Christians, who sing praises to God every week and tell others how good He is. While these are good things to do, Jesus tells us that many do this in hypocrisy.

"Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments
of men. "
- Matthew 15:7-9

There are billions of so-called Christians, who speak good things with their mouths about Jesus Christ and claim that they are of Him. Yet in reality, in their heart, they are nowhere near the Living God. Jesus warns us what will happen to these people:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
- Matthew 7:21-23

Many will try to point to their supposed "many wonderful works" in order to justify themselves before God. Yet though they did all these things in the name of Jesus, they never truly did, "the will of my Father which is in heaven".

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
- 2 Peter 3:9

The will of God is for all men to repent; to have grief and godly sorrow for one's sin.

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
- Acts 17:30

Those to whom Jesus will say, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity," are those who never had repentance for their sins; their faith was not true. Therefore they were never born again, nor did they receive the Holy Spirit, and their sins were never remitted.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 2:38

If you are not sorry to God for your sin, then you are not of Him. Therefore:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
- 2 Corinithians 13:5

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
- Luke 6:48

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
- Luke 13:3

(See Recommended Teachings below for more on this subject)


Conclusion

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
- Matthew 7:13-14

The way of this world is the way of death, and the vast majority are headed towards its destructive end. We have all chosen this way, and the only option of escape to the way of life is by the Lord Jesus Christ through repentance and faith.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
- John 14:6

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."
- Acts 20:21

Our lives in this world are fleeting, and afterwards we will stand before God in judgement.

"Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away."
- Psalm 144:4

"Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
- James 4:14

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
- Hebrews 9:27

"Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity."
- Psalm 98:9

In the end, a fleeting life of sin, devoid of the saving grace of Jesus Christ, will ultimately leave us in eternal destruction. Even if we had everything we ever hoped for in this life, even if we reached all of our goals and achieved all of our dreams.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"
- Matthew 16:24-27

Jesus Christ alone is able to save us from our sins, through a repentant heart and faith in Him. And these things He gives to us; we cannot repent and believe by our own power. However, if we ask God in meekness and in fear for these things, acknowledging the truth of our sin, He will give them to us.

"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
- 2 Timothy 2:25

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
- Hebrews 12:2

"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:"
- 1 John 5:14

Therefore:

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
- Ecclesiates 12:13

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"
- Deuteronomy 30:19

"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."
- 1 Peter 1:24-25

My prayer is that the reader would be blessed by the reading of God's word and that its power would transform your life as it has mine. That through faith and repentance, you would receive the forgiveness of sins, the peace of Jesus Christ and the hope of eternal life.


By Joshua J.Z. Brunton



Recommended Teachings

"Why Millions of Believers on Jesus are Going to Hell" - Creation Liberty Evangelism
"There is No Saving Grace Without Repentance" - Creation Liberty Evangelism
"Jesus said There Are Many False Converts" - Creation Liberty Evangelism

7

Bible Discussion / Re: Evil Spirits & Souls Passing Through Water

« on: October 17, 2022, 09:50:21 AM »

Thanks for those scriptures Anna. I think you're right that there likely isn't any particular deeper spiritual meaning with the mention of water. I was actually reading the verse thinking the heaven above was a spiritual heaven and earth beneath was actually under the ground. But now I see that it's probably more just talking about animals etc. So thanks again for that.
 
As for flat earth stuff - I think a better understanding of reference frames and spherical coordinates makes it not too difficult. I actually have a lot of extended family and some friends that are flat earthers, and after talking to flat earther at work, my opinion is they just don't understand physics - every argument they've brought up to me is just a misunderstanding of a physics concept. Which is fair enough cause physics is hard. I should know after struggling with physics in my degree. I think flat-earthism can be combination of healthy skepticism and a poor understanding of physics, as with some of my friends. But more often I have found it instead to be arrogance and foolishness. I'm open minded to flat earth but I can't see how it can be true, nor do I see how the Bible calls for a strictly flat earth. I am confident you would be the most reasonable person to have a discussion about this though. Maybe I'm the one not understanding physics after all!

From what I have seen, way back in those days, just like today, when those in certain political positions thought they were God and had total control, the talk among the people was that if they were God then they would have the power to control both the wind and the sea also. They all knew that a person had no control whatsoever over the wind and the sea.  Along comes Jesus.  Here was a man who had total control over the wind and the sea.

I also wanted to say I appreciate this point because I really like it. I think it's very good supporting evidence to demonstrate the Jesus is God.

8

Bible Discussion / Re: Evil Spirits & Souls Passing Through Water

« on: October 14, 2022, 08:52:55 AM »

Very intriguing! I have always found the reference to water in the second of the ten commandments unexpected. (Pretty sure it's talking about the sea, right?)

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" - Exodus 20:4

As I understand it, graven images are forbidden for spiritual entities. So making no graven images of things 'in the water under the earth' seems to indicate there are spiritual entities there.
Thinking about this is gonna increase my fear of the ocean; it's not nearly as boring as I once thought. Very vast and mysterious.

9

What's New @ CLE / Re: (ARTICLE) Jesus Said There Are Many False Converts

« on: September 25, 2022, 07:52:09 AM »

That parrot picture is a fantastic summary of the issue. Speaks 1,000 words.

10

General Discussion / Re: Reproving the Works of Videogames: Final Fantasy

« on: January 02, 2022, 12:43:00 PM »

I hope that it comes in handy for you, David.

It's good that you made him stay away from it, at least he should have learned somewhat from that. My parents were pretty lenient with a number of things like Final Fantasy (or didn't pay attention to what was in it), but some things we weren't allowed to watch was Harry Potter, and this cartoon called Yu-Gi-Oh. When I was old enough and my parents paid less attention to what I was up to, I watched all the Yu-Gi-Oh series and even bought its playing cards and during my last year of high school I read all the Harry Potter books. Even though we weren't forbidden from Final Fantasy, from deduction from the other two things I was forbidden, I could tell there was something wrong with the series for the same reasons. Though I brushed that thought to the furthest corner of my mind.
But knowing that it was wrong from the my parents' rules laid the foundation for me to give it up later on, so hopefully it will be similar for your son. I wish my parents were more proactive in teaching us the laws of God, but I am very glad for the things that they did teach me were wrong.

11

General Discussion / Reproving the Works of Videogames: Final Fantasy

« on: December 28, 2021, 07:09:14 AM »

Three years ago now I discovered CLE through searching for Christian perspectives on videogames. In particular, games which had a lot of magic and mythological creatures and the likes within them, otherwise known as witchcraft and paganism. And the Lord lead me to the article "Videogames: Causing Witchcraft to Prosper".

Reading this article was a crucial step leading to my conversion, because these kind of videogames were the biggest idol in my life, set up from an early age. Some of my earliest, and once fondest memories, were watching my brothers play them and myself playing them for the first time. They were what I asked for my birthdays. I totally immersed myself in them, they were what I thought about all day, what I hoped for constantly, they were literally my gods. And I needed to repent for my idolatry, and I learnt that through finding this article.
Now that I have been saved by the true Living God, I thought I would share some knowledge and insight into some of these games before I forget the details.

The particular videogame series I was searching about was the Final Fantasy series, one of the videogames Chris touches on in his article.
This series has been propagating witchcraft for quite sometime now. The first installment began back in 1987 with the first major at home consoles.
At the time of this post, there are 15 installments in the main series, some of which have sequels, with numerous spin off titles. I have played nearly all 15 of them except for 11, and have finished them all except for 1 and 11. On top of this I completed a lot of the spin off titles as well. You might have guessed that this series was my primary idol of all my videogame idols.

Chris does a good job in his article explaining the gist of the series, but I will recap some of the details.
The main attraction and unique factor that distinguishes the series from other games of the same genre (which is Role Playing Games or RPG, specifically Japanese ones), are definitely what are generally referred to as summons. Summons are spiritual entities that the main characters call upon in battle to fight for them. Sometimes they play a major role in the plot/storyline of the game, sometimes they are just kind of there, but they are always there. And the main sources of inspirations for them are pagan gods. Examples include Odin and Phoenix, more familiar ones, then there are many more obscure ones such as Ifrit, Bahamut, Ixion, Quetzalcoatl etc. If you ask anyone who knows about the series, they are likely to tell you that the summons are the coolest parts of the game. The animations for these creatures are often spectacular, and some of the most epic moments in the series is centered around them. I very much think that the inclusion of these creatures has attributed greatly to the series' success. Because by their inclusion and centerpiece role they take, when the player marvels he glorifies them, and is made an idolater of them. Continuing on the worship of pagan gods.

"... for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God." - Luke 16:15

On top of incorporating pagan gods into their videogames, they also incorporate many other spiritual and pagan philosophies into their plots and themes. Chris goes into detail how in Final Fantasy 7 the main villain's philosophy is based upon Gnosticism and how the player is subtly taught Gnostic concepts throughout the game. Being a Japanese series, they delve into many eastern pagan concepts. However some of the installments in the series they even incorporate Christian concepts. And when they do, I think this is when the philosophies that are presented are most sinister and most dangerous.

This brings me to my primary motivation for this post, and that is to demonstrate how the tenth installment, Final Fantasy 10, communicates messages directly antithetical to the gospel.
To do which, I will do my best to concisely explain the necessary points of the overly complicated plot.

Final Fantasy 10

The game begins, and you are introduced to the main character. He lives in this futuristic kind of city with big sky scrapers, called Zanarkand. He's a sports star, and he's a got a big game on that night. During the game however, the city is attacked by this big whale like monstrosity that can fly, quickly destroying the city, including the stadium. Panicked, the main character finds himself outside the destroyed stadium where he finds another main character, his father's friend. They look at the big whale monster, and he tells him, "We call it Sin." Eventually they both get sucked away by Sin.

Final Fantasy 10's Sin

Fast forward, the main character washes up on an island in a world he's not familiar with (called Spira), and learns more about "Sin".
Cities like Zanarkand existed all over Spira, ran using machines and technology (referred to as machina in the game). Then Sin came and destroyed them all. Sin continues to this day to wreak havoc on the world and the people live in constant fear of being destroyed by Sin.

Sin destroying a village

Now there exists a religion called Yevon, and they forbid the use of machina, they teach that Sin is their punishment for using machina. They take inspiration from all the world's religions, however primarily they represent the Catholic Church. Their hierarchical structure, the character design, and their rampant corruption and authoritative presence, and their supreme political power all allude to the Catholics. And their suppression of technology is probably an allusion to the Catholic's well known history of suppressing scientific advancements.

Now the only way to defeat Sin is for a summoner (a person who calls/summons the spiritual pagan inspired creatures to fight for them in battle) to go on a pilgrimage across the different temples of Spira. After that they can then go to Zanarkand (a different one from before) to receive the Final Summoning, which is powerful enough to defeat Sin.
However! When Sin is defeated by a summoner, after a short period of time, Sin is reborn and continues to wreak havoc on the world.
So the Yevonites teach the people that if they follow their teachings and atones for their sins, when Sin (the big whale) is defeated, there's a chance it won't come back again. (A point I found interesting is they never once go into detail about what these sins are, besides the use of technology. And instead of sorting out the sin issue they just keep throwing summoners at "Sin".)

You can probably already see where this is going. Summoners defeating Sin. Who might the summoners represent? The game makes it very clear early on when the main character summoner walks on water.

Summoner walking on water

Then later on in the game, we learn that in order to summon the Final Summoning, the summoner dies in the process.
So the summoners are supposed to be a representation of Jesus Christ.

Now summoners sacrificing themselves aren't enough to defeat Sin forever, the Yevon religion teaches that works based doctrines must be involved to end Sin once and for all (just like the real Catholic Church.) But at the end of the game, we learn from the lady who gives the summoner the Final Summoning, after being questioned about Yevon's teaching, that these ideas of Yevon are false as well, and that they are designed to give the people hope in a hopeless world. "Sin is eternal" she says.
So what is the main character's response to this information? They devise a genius plan involving the use of machina, and through the idolised power of friendship, they stun sin then enter inside it to destroy it within. They then find Yu Yevon (the namesake of the Yevonites,  Yu Yevon is a representation of God), who lives in Sin and uses it as his armour. They kill Yu Yevon, who takes the form of parasite, and that ends the cycle of "Sin".


So what ideas and philosophies does one learn from completing this game? First and foremost, the idea that there is no sacrifice for your sins. This idea is one that is reiterated throughout the plot of the game to the player. No matter how many summoners (representations of Jesus Christ) they thrown at "Sin", it keeps coming back. (Really it is again reminiscent of the Catholic Church and their abominable Eucharist, perpetuating the sacrifice.) However at the end of the game, we learn that "Sin" can't be defeated through any sacrifice whatsoever, so applying this idea they learn from the game to the real world, is that there is no sacrifice capable to made as a propitiation for your sins, therefore Jesus Christ's sacrifice is not enough either.

So the other dangerous ideas that the game teaches is how the problem of "Sin" is resolved, and that is through embracing that thing which was forbidden (in the game machina), and to destroy god.

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."    - Romans 7:9

The philosophy we learn how to deal with sin in our lives, instead of resolving sin how it needs to be resolved (through the mercy of God by the blood of His Son), we ignore God and his laws and commandments and continue in our sin, and through our own power we overcome life's troubles. Cause as many people would have you believe, it's not sin that's the problem but God and His standards.  In the game, going so far as to kill their wicked misrepresentation of God, which I reckon illustrates the animosity the spirit behind the game has for the True Living God.

Because this game parodies the Catholic Church, Christian concepts are straw manned / misrepresented, and when they are dismantled, they are replaced by even worse philosophies on top of the misleading mess.

 

It was through one of my older brothers I was introduced to this series, and I can't help but think this had a considerable impact on his religious philosophies. He believes in God, but he has fallen into the Hebrew Roots heresy that denies the power of Christ,

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" - Collosians 2:14

Though all our family was lead into to an extent through my dad, he's the only one out of us all that has committed down this road. And I think this is at least in part due to the philosophies that this game teaches. That all sacrifices for sins are insufficient and that we have to depend upon our own works. (Not to mention he has also embraces a number of blatant sins, but somehow justifies them.)

I thank the Lord; I don't think I was too affected by most of these ideas. I that the Lord again, that the main takeaway in regards to these philosophies, was to rather be highly skeptical of organised religion. The game parodies the Catholic Church well, especially its hypocritical and oppressive nature. When I was reading through the New Testament for the first time when I wasn't yet saved, even then I was astounded at how often Jesus challenged and rebuked the Pharisees, the religious leadership of the day. Especially when I got to Matthew 23. I am very grateful to the Lord and believe that it was His doing that I retained this understanding, and not the wicked philosophies I could have fallen deep into by playing in the devils' playground.

These conclusions I did not realize at all until after I was saved, and they really shocked me when I was given this understanding of what the game is actually teaching. Because I've only shared only a tiny fraction of the details in this game to expose it; all these wicked philosophies are hidden behind an emotional story, immersive graphics, and music that pulls the heart strings. Behind all this beauty our natural instinct isn't to suspect evil. With other videogames that have such offensive and sinful philosophies, are often more explicit, darker in tone, and vulgar. Whereas in this game, while it is dark in a sense, it is more tragic, and despite that it remains pleasing to the senses. It would be similar comparing death metal to a Disney musical.

Another point to consider as well, in these videos games, you spend at least 40 hours completing the game, a lot more time than a movie and even a lot of television series. And because you play as the characters as well, and watch them become stronger as you level them up, you become even more attached to the characters and the ideas of the game. Thus learning the philosophies of the game.

Many other installments in the series use Catholic or actual Christian concepts in their storylines. In the 13th and 14th installments have obvious pope figures, and in the 15th the main character is another Jesus figure who dies to save his kingdom from this disease which is supposed to represent sin. (But disease is afflicted on to people, it isn't brought upon themselves like actual sin.) There are many more allusions throughout the series as well, and many other corrupting philosophies. But number 10 I'd say is the worst offender, and teaches corrupt philosophies that pertain most closely to the gospel of Christ. And it is one of the best selling and most popular/esteemed in the series, in the top 3 or 5 in both categories.

I hope that I was clear enough throughout this post, and that the plot summary isn't too difficult to understand. Happy to clarify on anything for anyone. Hopefully there's some insight in here and that it is valuable!

I am so thankful for Chris writing the Videogames article, because there are so very few people out there speaking against this kind of stuff. Even many so called Christians that are against witchcraft in media in general, like Harry Potter, will make very many exceptions, such as my own parents. And if someone hadn't clearly laid out the sin within the videogames I played, who knows if I would have ever given them up.
Far more crucially though, through the article I was led to the truth about repentance, and that I needed to repent for my idolatry and witchcraft (in heart) as well as turn from it, along with my other sins. So that my sins could be remitted and that I could be born again! I am therefore extremely grateful, and hope to add my voice more loudly to those speaking the truth about the works of videogames.

12

Introduce Yourself / Re: Hi

« on: December 27, 2021, 06:47:58 PM »

Hello and welcome from me too, Anna!

Thanks for sharing your testimony, I enjoyed reading it as well and it gives me some important things to keep in mind.

One thing was you said how you had made the people in your life into idols, something I haven't really thought much about recently. People more clearly idolize celebrities and people of high station, but they can also just as easily idolize people they know.
I've noticed people even idolize the idea of relationships as well, like marriage or friendships. I know I did to some extent, especially the idea friendship when I was younger. Good for me to keep in mind this tendency, idols aren't nearly so easy to spot when they're in the heart.

Another was the importance of being firm in the foundation of repentance. We can still be rebellious and and sin against God even after being born again, but we must repent for everything we are conscious of. Cause though this foundation was laid, it must be kept strong for us to build upon it. But it is a painful thing, especially when we need to repent repeatedly. So there have been many times where I have pushed it off, but of course that only makes things much worse. Especially when we have the understanding that we need to, like I have had. But thank God that he will have mercy on us when we are repentant. But thank the Lord again, when the time comes where we won't need to repent any longer,

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” - Revelation 21:4

I found it very interesting how you describe being born again without knowing the vocabulary. Cause I knew all the vocabulary, and said a number of sinner's prayers, but of course that didn't help. It wasn't until I understood the need for repentance from reading Chris' repentance teaching. I agree, every professing Christian needs to read it!

It's cool to see more people in this corner of the earth on the forum! I'm located up in Auckland. Looking forward to reading more from you. 

13

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: December 13, 2021, 06:05:42 AM »

Hello, good to meet you Virginia

I'm really glad that you have found the CLE website and that Chris' teachings are blessing you as they have blessed myself and many others.

I was wondering, what teachings have you read so far? From your post it sounds like you've read "501c3: The Devil's Church", have you had the chance to read or listen to "Is Repentance Part of Salvation?" (https://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php) or "Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell" (http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php). Would you consider these teachings an important part of the true meaning of scripture that you mention? For me personally the repentance article was really instrumental for my understanding to becoming truly born again, as I learned I lacked true repentance which is godly sorrow. 

It's great to hear about the godly sorrow you have. I would love to hear more about your testimony in how you were saved and anything more that you would like to share.

I am encouraged by your desire and service in sharing the truth despite the adversity, a task I need to be much more diligent in doing.

14

General Discussion / Re: Help finding: Biblically sound music

« on: November 30, 2021, 07:20:09 AM »

I was wondering if others had come across them. Good that you found them! I've memorized a couple of the Psalms now just from listening.

I've found similar problems with other scripture songs, more so that often they ignore scripture that is heavier and that would convict anyone of sin or cause them to fear God. I just finished reading Chris' book on the christian music industry, and one of the many things it illustrates is the self-centered nature of the music. And I think that this also guides the scripture that gets chosen, the ones that make us feel good, while the others that might not make us feel so good gets ignored.

Rowan, I had always wondered where that idea that Satan was skilled in music came from, thanks for sharing the verse.

15

General Discussion / Re: Help finding: Biblically sound music

« on: November 29, 2021, 09:36:23 PM »

Hello Samantha, I've been reading your posts and introduction and they've been very encouraging. Good to have you here and nice to meet you.

A while ago I came across an album that puts music to the Psalms 120-134 (apparently referred to as the Songs of Ascents) straight from the KJV. So the text is perfect, and I don't find anything wrong with the music though let me know if anyone disagrees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0RAEUTrhy0

The style of each one is quite different. I've been enjoying them a lot, a couple of my favourites are 121 and 123. Sadly not all their others songs are KJV but they often use the NKJV instead. But they do have a lot of other songs using the KJV but I haven't looked at these much yet.

16

What's New @ CLE / Re: (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p24

« on: November 12, 2021, 02:55:22 AM »

I just happened to be reading Isaiah 11 the day after listening to the teaching and found the first few verses to be extremely relevant to the point about not trusting our senses.

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
- Isaiah 11:1-4

17

General Discussion / Re: Looking for a video... Could Use Some Help

« on: October 30, 2021, 11:11:42 AM »

That's great to hear! 

I'm glad both of you found listening to him as painful as I did, I had to pause him a few times so that I had long enough to be dumbfounded at what I was hearing. I think his explanation of the falling away was one of those times.
It's amazing how you can make the Bible say anything you want as long as you don't pay attention to the context or what it's actually saying. There's no shortage of profound and amazing messages in scripture but it's like he goes on and tries to makes up his own profound messages. And I thinks that's why he has so much vain talking like you say Chris, I was noticing that too. It's like he needs to say so many words to try and distract us that he's pulling what he's saying out of thin air. Like a student trying to hit the word count on an essay. But I guess that's what you need to do to run a ministry without the Holy Spirit to teach you.

That being said, I am glad to not have to listen to him as well David haha

18

General Discussion / Re: Looking for a video... Could Use Some Help

« on: October 27, 2021, 12:52:51 PM »

I found one of Hoggard's videos called "Pagan Holiday Origins" where he compares Jesus with the sun. It was uploaded in 6 parts and in part 1/6 he quotes Matthew 17:1-2 where Jesus was transfigured , emphasizing the part that says "and his face did shine as the sun", and then at 13:48 of the video he says "I worship the Son of God, S-O-N. Who is like the sun rising. Whose face shines as the sun. Why? Because he's the light of the world."

He continues in the second part to compare the equinoxes and solstices as representing the birth, death, resurrections of Christ. At 9:03 he says, "The devil did not design the winter solstice, summer solstice, or the spring or fall equinoxes. He did not design that. God did to show the gospel of Jesus Christ."  @14:19 he says "Every bit of this is designed to show the birth, the death, and the rebirth of Jesus Christ."

In parts 3-5 he continues to say many more wacky (to say the least) thingsas he talks about pagan holidays. In part 6 he talks about Yule and Romans 14.
But nothing else that I thought that was too relevant. The first two parts are where he focuses on sun related stuff.

Links for each of the parts:
1/6 https://youtu.be/cAoPjHra4ys
2/6 https://youtu.be/ocs_Yifv49g
3/6 https://youtu.be/Zt_Aj70Nn7c
4/6 https://youtu.be/H5cjo9FaGCc
5/6 https://youtu.be/5vt4oF-mthc
6/6 https://youtu.be/uMVyijxpRfQ

He is sitting in a news-like desk and there is a monitor and squares which matches your description except for the squares are not blue in this video. I found videos where he has a similar setup that does have a bunch of blue squares (an example video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRctgDkTGC4) but I couldn't find any that had that this exact setup with a relevant topic to Christmas. The ones that I thought might have a vaguely relevant topic, I didn't hear him mention the sun. Seems like he only used that video setup for a period of a year or two from what I could see on his main youtube channel. This video I found was on his older youtube channel. I just found another youtube channel that has videos of his that I'll have a look at if this isn't a close enough or exact match.

19

Bible Discussion / Re: When God Slew Uzzah

« on: July 06, 2021, 10:49:47 AM »

I too found this to be edifying! I always wondered why that happened, and was also perplexed and fearful. While the passage certainly is good to demonstrate why the Lord is to be feared, I see now the righteousness in His judgements in this instance. Whereas some of my first thoughts might have been that God was being unfair, though I knew He was just in this doing. But now I understand why and also see that He was also being longsuffering with David and merciful by not punishing them sooner and even more severely.
This gives me a lot to consider thanks for sharing.

20

General Discussion / Re: Fuel Related

« on: July 01, 2021, 08:01:54 PM »

I've always wondered if using 95 in my car would make any difference, now I have my answer!

Sounds like their plan quite literally backfired on them. Glad they got their transmission covered at least.

I'll be thinking of this next time I fuel up.