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162
Introduce Yourself / Re: Why did I check "other" on beliefs? Annalisa's Introduction
« on: February 06, 2023, 04:29:54 PM »Quote
I'm not quite sure why I was so shocked, (I mean, after all, I was raised in a "Christian" home) but I at the same time I understand since I was very deceived.I'm sure you already understand this, but it's because there is a difference between knowing something, and having your understanding unlocked by the Holy Ghost.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
-Luke 24:45
Billions of people know who, generally, Jesus is. Many of them know that Jesus is the Messiah. Many of them know what, generally, sin is. Very few understand their own depravity and why Jesus did what He did for us.
163
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Christian Music: For the Love of Money p7
« on: February 06, 2023, 03:19:50 PM »164
General Discussion / Re: 9/11 Conspiracy
« on: February 04, 2023, 11:28:37 PM »
Thank you for the clarification.
Now, that being said, there are a number of people in our church that find it very weird that, as soon as you have allegedly been given godly sorrow for sins committed, that your conversation is COMPLETELY focused around worldly conspiracies. What some folks having been trying to explain to you is that: This is NOT a normal, reasonable reaction to the situation.
It's like someone pushes you out of the way of an oncoming bus, saving your life, but dying in the process. And as soon as it happens, you turn to the person next to you on the sidewalk and say, "So did you see football game last night?" That is NOT a normal, reasonable reaction to the situation.
When someone has just recently experienced the gifts of repentance (and 'repent' and 'repentance' mean the same thing), that is, the knowledge and understanding being unlocked of one's wretchedness, to see sin for what it is, the grief of heart over it, to be saved by Christ, and transformed into a new person... their conversation usually reflects that. In fact, we have two newer members to our forum, Chris and Morgan, and we have seen that in their conversations, but we don't see it in yours, and that's what's concerning some of us, and it's why I typically do not like to weigh in on these types of threads you've started because I don't want to encourage you in something, when there is a MUCH bigger looming problem at hand.
You are probably unaware, but there are folks in our church who read this forum, and some of them are concerned and a bit cautious of you right now because we have seen this pattern before. Essentially, it's a person who comes in and "decides" one day that they need to come to Biblical repentance, and they experience something called "remorse" or "regret," which is not the same as repentance, but they think it's the same as repentance, and then, when they join this forum, they just talk about all the worldly garbage that's important to them because, in actuality, nothing has changed within them, but they want us to believe they have been converted.
This is a pattern that some of us have watched happen in numerous people over the past decade since our church was founded, and it ends poorly every time. I am not saying necessarily that you are one of those people, but what I am saying is that your conversation so far reflects the same conversation of those contentious people we've had many problems with, in which you are focused on the things of this world, and writing with formalities to impress us. That's not what we've come to expect to see when one has been humbled to repentance and born again in Christ, and the conversation of a true convert is not something anyone can fake 'til they make it.
Now, that being said, there are a number of people in our church that find it very weird that, as soon as you have allegedly been given godly sorrow for sins committed, that your conversation is COMPLETELY focused around worldly conspiracies. What some folks having been trying to explain to you is that: This is NOT a normal, reasonable reaction to the situation.
It's like someone pushes you out of the way of an oncoming bus, saving your life, but dying in the process. And as soon as it happens, you turn to the person next to you on the sidewalk and say, "So did you see football game last night?" That is NOT a normal, reasonable reaction to the situation.
When someone has just recently experienced the gifts of repentance (and 'repent' and 'repentance' mean the same thing), that is, the knowledge and understanding being unlocked of one's wretchedness, to see sin for what it is, the grief of heart over it, to be saved by Christ, and transformed into a new person... their conversation usually reflects that. In fact, we have two newer members to our forum, Chris and Morgan, and we have seen that in their conversations, but we don't see it in yours, and that's what's concerning some of us, and it's why I typically do not like to weigh in on these types of threads you've started because I don't want to encourage you in something, when there is a MUCH bigger looming problem at hand.
You are probably unaware, but there are folks in our church who read this forum, and some of them are concerned and a bit cautious of you right now because we have seen this pattern before. Essentially, it's a person who comes in and "decides" one day that they need to come to Biblical repentance, and they experience something called "remorse" or "regret," which is not the same as repentance, but they think it's the same as repentance, and then, when they join this forum, they just talk about all the worldly garbage that's important to them because, in actuality, nothing has changed within them, but they want us to believe they have been converted.
This is a pattern that some of us have watched happen in numerous people over the past decade since our church was founded, and it ends poorly every time. I am not saying necessarily that you are one of those people, but what I am saying is that your conversation so far reflects the same conversation of those contentious people we've had many problems with, in which you are focused on the things of this world, and writing with formalities to impress us. That's not what we've come to expect to see when one has been humbled to repentance and born again in Christ, and the conversation of a true convert is not something anyone can fake 'til they make it.
165
General Discussion / Did you get saved recently or not?
« on: February 04, 2023, 10:13:39 AM »
In the recent book I wrote called There is No Saving Grace Without Repentance, I use the Scriptures to prove the definition of repentance is "grief" or more expanded for mankind's sin is "godly sorrow of wrongdoing." Based on the obvious title, I also prove that one cannot be saved unless first given repentance from the Holy Spirit. (2Ti 2:25)
That being said, let's review Daniel's posts:
1.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1663.msg13794#msg13794
I’ve always considered myself a Christian, but I never truly repented until January of this year. I felt the need to truly repent after reading Matthew 7:21-23, as I knew that despite the fact that I continuously attended church, I needed to repent in true heartfelt grief over the sins I’ve committed (lying, cheating, etc…). Although I claimed that I was a Christian, I continued to sin. And I knew that I was a hypocrite. I needed to display humility due to the sins I knowingly committed while professing to be of Jesus Christ. I read that Jesus wanted me to come to repentance (the desire for ALL to come found in 2 Peter 3:9) and that I needed to humble myself (humble myself as a little child found in Matthew 18:3-8), or I “shall not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3-8). I was sitting on a chair with my computer at night following some research and realized that I needed to accept God’s gift of repentance. With all this in mind, I repented and truly came to Jesus Christ.
Again, he said, "I never truly repented until January of this year." Therefore, if he has never had any repentance of his sin, there was never any saving grace, which means he was never a Christian until January of 2023.
In a later post in this thread, I pointed out that Daniel claimed he had gotten saved just a few weeks ago, to which he replied with a weird statement:
2.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13832#msg13832
I believe that I've "been" a Christian my whole life (simple prayer for repentance), and have believed in Christian doctrine and creation my whole life (with great knowledge in both subjects). I hadn't truly repented in a biblical fashion, however, and that is what I felt I needed to do to be a true Christian.
Daniel seems to be disagreeing with me that he got saved a few weeks ago, but puts "been" in quotes, not clarifying what he means. He does not seem to be treating this as a point of salvation and regeneration in the Holy Ghost for him, but rather, he seems to be treating repentance like some ritual he had to do to be "complete" somehow. Therefore, since he was a churchgoer for so many years, I asked him his opinion on my book, Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell, and he said he fully agreed with it, which means that nothing he's saying is making any sense because I can't get a straight answer.
Was he a Christian all his life? Or did he get saved a few weeks ago? I just want to get to a straight answer because, whichever one he tells us, there are some problems that need to be addressed, but I can't get that far in the conversation because of the elusiveness.
3.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13836#msg13836
Finally, I stated that "I hadn't truly repented in a biblical fashion, however, and that is what I felt I needed to do to be a true Christian", as I know that a simple prayer does not grant repentance. 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 brought to my attention the fact that I had not repented in a biblical fashion, and hence I was not a true Christian until I repented in grief. I now know that a quick, simple prayer (as I had done years ago) is not true biblical repentance.
This is so on the fence, I can't figure out what he believes. Was he saved a few weeks ago, or does he believe he was a Christian his whole life? It can't be both. He can't say that he agrees with me that being born again in Jesus Christ requires the gift of repentance, and then say he was a "Christian" his whole life, but then put add in the word "true" to make it seem like he was and was not a Christian his whole life.
4.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13839#msg13839
I agree with everything outlined in your article "There is no saving grace without repentance".
Something is really off here. I would love to have a direct statement on what Daniel actually believes about salvation, instead of just saying he "agrees" with me because, so far, I don't see any agreement.
I could not care less about 9/11 or moon landings or climate change scams right now. Daniel, do you believe you have been saved for (x) amount of years? Or, do you believe you were born again in Christ (being brought to repentance, and therefore, saving grace) a few weeks ago when you said you came to repentance? A short, concise answer would be wonderful; you can skip all the formalities as if you are writing formal letters... it's just a basic conversation, so just a straight answer would be very appreciated.
That being said, let's review Daniel's posts:
1.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1663.msg13794#msg13794
I’ve always considered myself a Christian, but I never truly repented until January of this year. I felt the need to truly repent after reading Matthew 7:21-23, as I knew that despite the fact that I continuously attended church, I needed to repent in true heartfelt grief over the sins I’ve committed (lying, cheating, etc…). Although I claimed that I was a Christian, I continued to sin. And I knew that I was a hypocrite. I needed to display humility due to the sins I knowingly committed while professing to be of Jesus Christ. I read that Jesus wanted me to come to repentance (the desire for ALL to come found in 2 Peter 3:9) and that I needed to humble myself (humble myself as a little child found in Matthew 18:3-8), or I “shall not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3-8). I was sitting on a chair with my computer at night following some research and realized that I needed to accept God’s gift of repentance. With all this in mind, I repented and truly came to Jesus Christ.
Again, he said, "I never truly repented until January of this year." Therefore, if he has never had any repentance of his sin, there was never any saving grace, which means he was never a Christian until January of 2023.
In a later post in this thread, I pointed out that Daniel claimed he had gotten saved just a few weeks ago, to which he replied with a weird statement:
2.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13832#msg13832
I believe that I've "been" a Christian my whole life (simple prayer for repentance), and have believed in Christian doctrine and creation my whole life (with great knowledge in both subjects). I hadn't truly repented in a biblical fashion, however, and that is what I felt I needed to do to be a true Christian.
Daniel seems to be disagreeing with me that he got saved a few weeks ago, but puts "been" in quotes, not clarifying what he means. He does not seem to be treating this as a point of salvation and regeneration in the Holy Ghost for him, but rather, he seems to be treating repentance like some ritual he had to do to be "complete" somehow. Therefore, since he was a churchgoer for so many years, I asked him his opinion on my book, Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell, and he said he fully agreed with it, which means that nothing he's saying is making any sense because I can't get a straight answer.
Was he a Christian all his life? Or did he get saved a few weeks ago? I just want to get to a straight answer because, whichever one he tells us, there are some problems that need to be addressed, but I can't get that far in the conversation because of the elusiveness.
3.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13836#msg13836
Finally, I stated that "I hadn't truly repented in a biblical fashion, however, and that is what I felt I needed to do to be a true Christian", as I know that a simple prayer does not grant repentance. 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 brought to my attention the fact that I had not repented in a biblical fashion, and hence I was not a true Christian until I repented in grief. I now know that a quick, simple prayer (as I had done years ago) is not true biblical repentance.
This is so on the fence, I can't figure out what he believes. Was he saved a few weeks ago, or does he believe he was a Christian his whole life? It can't be both. He can't say that he agrees with me that being born again in Jesus Christ requires the gift of repentance, and then say he was a "Christian" his whole life, but then put add in the word "true" to make it seem like he was and was not a Christian his whole life.
4.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13839#msg13839
I agree with everything outlined in your article "There is no saving grace without repentance".
Something is really off here. I would love to have a direct statement on what Daniel actually believes about salvation, instead of just saying he "agrees" with me because, so far, I don't see any agreement.
I could not care less about 9/11 or moon landings or climate change scams right now. Daniel, do you believe you have been saved for (x) amount of years? Or, do you believe you were born again in Christ (being brought to repentance, and therefore, saving grace) a few weeks ago when you said you came to repentance? A short, concise answer would be wonderful; you can skip all the formalities as if you are writing formal letters... it's just a basic conversation, so just a straight answer would be very appreciated.
166
General Discussion / Re: 9/11 Conspiracy
« on: February 03, 2023, 03:30:30 PM »Quote
Finally, I stated that "I hadn't truly repented in a biblical fashion, however, and that is what I felt I needed to do to be a true Christian", as I know that a simple prayer does not grant repentance.
2 Corinthians 7:9-10 brought to my attention the fact that I had not repented in a biblical fashion, and hence I was not a true Christian until I repented in grief. I now know that a quick, simple prayer (as I had done years ago) is not true biblical repentance.
Then, you were not a Christian; just a churchgoer. If you had come to repentance a few weeks ago, then you had not been saved until a few weeks ago because repentance is given to a man along with faith and salvation. This is why I don't think you understand what repentance means; something isn't adding up here.
167
General Discussion / Re: 9/11 Conspiracy
« on: February 03, 2023, 01:13:17 PM »
No. The conversation we're having on the other thread is MUCH more important than this.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13834#msg13834
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1666.msg13834#msg13834
168
General Discussion / Re: 9/11 Conspiracy
« on: February 03, 2023, 01:11:49 PM »As I also mentioned in a reply to my introduction post, I believe that I've "been" a Christian my whole life (simple prayer for repentance), and have believed in Christian doctrine and creation my whole life (with great knowledge in both subjects). I hadn't truly repented in a biblical fashion, however, and that is what I felt I needed to do to be a true Christian.
Okay, so that leaves me confused about what you believe. Did you ever get a chance to read this?
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php
If so, what are your thoughts on it? I'm curious because there seems to be a disconnect somewhere between what we believe and what you believe, especially concerning repentance and faith, and I'm trying to figure out what it is.
169
General Discussion / Re: 9/11 Conspiracy
« on: February 02, 2023, 11:54:49 PM »
It has nothing to with upsetting anyone. It has nothing to do with harming anyone. It has nothing to do with causing contention. As far as I'm aware, no one even hinted as such things, so where are you getting all these ideas from?
The reason this is odd is because you told us you just got saved literally a few weeks ago. So it's weird that your conversation is mostly about moon landings and 9/11 and other such topics. It's strange; not what we normally see from new Christians, and there's a lot of reasoning behind that, especially considering the story you told us in your testimony.
The reason this is odd is because you told us you just got saved literally a few weeks ago. So it's weird that your conversation is mostly about moon landings and 9/11 and other such topics.
It's strange; not what we normally see from new Christians, and there's a lot of reasoning behind that, especially considering the story you told us in your testimony.
170
Introduce Yourself / Re: That was then, This is now. A life so changed.
« on: February 01, 2023, 07:33:22 PM »
You'll have to pay attention to the dates these were posted. This thread was from over four years ago. The man you're speaking to (Ben), we had to remove him from our church due to the contention he was causing, as well as an assortment of other sins that are not appropriate to speak of here, all of which he had no repentance. Perhaps what he wrote is moving to some people who might read it, but to those of us who know him, we see it very differently.
171
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Christian Music: For the Love of Money p6
« on: January 30, 2023, 04:51:07 PM »172
General Discussion / Re: Did the moon landing occur?
« on: January 28, 2023, 04:47:29 PM »NASA admits that they haven't discovered a way to get through the Van Allen radiation belt, and that they can't send anyone through it yet because it would cook them to death.
So... how did they do it in 1969?
173
Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello Everyone
« on: January 27, 2023, 10:39:58 PM »
Kenneth's just trying to help you relax. We know you're respectful n' all, but we're not lords or priests. Just sinners saved.
174
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Christian Music: For the Love of Money p5
« on: January 23, 2023, 03:30:37 PM »175
General Discussion / Re: Biblical Cosmology
« on: January 16, 2023, 01:35:22 PM »
I had originally moved this thread to the private section of our forum for Anna's sake since, if I left it here in the public section, I would have to respond to it, and it would be embarrassing for Anna. Over a Skype call with our church yesterday, she accused me of censorship (attempting to hide the accusation behind some flattery), so I have returned it to the public section, and will now expose her deception.
I want others to know that Anna joined our church about three months ago, and she was removed from our church this past weekend due to that deception. If she decides to come here and argue that was not true, we have an audio recording of that meeting where we can prove that, in which when she was offered to walk through the Scriptures together with us so we can determine the context of them, she refused, stating that she was "uncomfortable" going through them.
To be clear, Anna's removal from our church had NOTHING to do with whether or not she believes in a flat earth. We don't care about that. It had EVERYTHING to do with the fact that she lied to us repeatedly (which is common with flat-earth cultists), she was deceptive, and she refused to sit down and reason out the Scriptures together with us. She never fellowshipped with us, she just spent three months sitting back and listening to us fellowship with each other, while she made passive aggressive (i.e. murmuring) comments in the background.
Anna lied to us so many times in such a short period, I have come to believe that she is NOT born again in Christ. Others may have differing opinions; that's fine. I do not believe her as of yet. She covers the bitterness and hatred in her heart with British niceties, and mistakes timidness for "humility," and I have not seen an ounce of repentance in her heart.
My point is that these are fallacious arguments in support of flat-earth, and flat-earth cultists are forced to use those fallacious arguments because they do not have Biblical standing.
Chris: I'll read the Scripture right now and ask you some basic questions and let you answer them. Would you be willing to do that?
Anna: Um... I would actually prefer just to part ways now.
When Anna posted Isa 28:10 in her forum post here, it was all for show. She doesn't abide by that at all. She can't even bring herself to have a discussion about Scripture with other Christians, but is more than willing to assert that she has the knowledge of God, and that we are all wrong about the Bible. She's a hypocrite and a liar.
The reason I highlighted one section of her statement is because this is the foundation for her house of cards she calls "Biblical cosmology." She said that Isa 40:22 "can be read as a literal statement," and when I read that, I said to myself, "Okay, here's what I've been waiting to see" because I expected her to present her argument of why Isa 40:22's first half should be taken literally, and the second half should not be taken literally so we do not consider all men and animals to be literal grasshoppers.
She went on to say, "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively," and again, I thought, "Okay, so show us your argument that there NOTHING in this passage that should be taken figuratively." Folks, go read the rest of her post for yourself because Anna NEVER EXPLAINS IT. She does not bother to make an argument to support her very strange statement here, and I was very disappointed because I wanted to hear an actual argument.
What Anna did here is called "assertion." In case you don't know what that means:
assertion (n): a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason
Anna just made a positive statement (i.e. "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively") and did not bother to provide any support or reasoning for it.
However, I can offer support and reasoning against it. I will now take us over to Isa 40, starting in verse 13, which, by the way, Anna (over Skype) refused to do with us because she was afraid of what she would find (i.e. she was scared to death that her beloved idol known as "flat earth" would be disproven):
Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
-Isa 40:13-14
I ask anyone reading this: What is the context here? The Bible is asking men who directs God, or who God goes to for counsel. The answer is nobody. God is where all knowledge, wisdom, and understanding begin and end. The Lord is the judge over all because He is in authority over all.
Now that we have that context, let's continue to apply it, just as Isa 28:10 teaches us to do:
Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
-Isa 40:15
Are nations literally bucket drops? No, obviously not; it's ridiculous to think such a thing because this is obviously figurative language, but remember, Anna told us "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively." According to her philosophy, she is stuck between a rock and hard place because she either has to admit that she was wrong, or she has to admit that she thinks nations are literally drops of water.
Those of us who take the Bible seriously know that this is applying the context of Scripture, namely, that God has total authority and power beyond our placid understanding, to the point that, whereas mankind believes a nation to be great, God has so little regard to their person that it is the same as we would consider losing a single drop of water out of an entire barrel.
And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
-Isa 40:16
Lebanon was well knows for its lush trees, and had a very big logging industry coming from it. Even to burn the whole with all the beasts of the world thereon would not be enough sacrifice for man (countering the pagan ideology, where their gods are satisfied after a certain amount), which is why Jesus Christ had to come to be the ultimate sacrifice, to end all sacrifices.
All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
-Isa 40:17
Does Anna believe that nations don't exist? After all, the Bible says that all nations are nothing in the sight of God, and because she said "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively," therefore, she must believe that nations don't exist... or she might have to go through the horrific process of admitting she was wrong. Tough choices.
To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.
-Isa 40:18-19
God cannot be likened unto symbols made by the hands of men. This is why I have a teaching called "Christian Symbols Are Not Christian," and that includes the pagan cross symbol that is plastered all over so many church buildings.
He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.
-Isa 40:20
How can you make an image or symbol to represent the Holy Omniscient All-Power God? Again, the context of these verses is the might, authority, and perfect knowledge of God that cannot be fathomed by man.
Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
-Isa 40:21
Here, the Jews were asked questions, and let's consider the context. What have they known? Was it flat-earth? What have they heard? Was it flat-earth? What did God tell them from the beginning? Was it flat-earth? God is speaking to the idolatrous Jews, and the context is that what they have known, and heard (even from their forefathers), and God told them from the beginning is the power of the Godhead, and that He cannot be replicated by men, despite their pathetic attempts to do so with the work of their meager hands.
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
-Isa 40:22
So what is the context here? Is the context flat-earth? No, obviously not. I just demonstrated that very clearly. It is that God sits above all and judges all, just as the previous verses tell us. It's that simple. God is not bound by physical limitations in that he is literally sitting on top of the world, as if the center of it is His throne. (And the Bible tells us that God's throne is in the third heaven, in His spiritual kingdom, not in this physical world.)
However, Anna provided no arguments to tell why she took those first 11 words literally instead of metaphorically, and then switched back to taking the rest of the verse metaphorically. She knows she would look like an idiot if she she claimed that people are literal grasshoppers, or that the heavens are a literal curtain, or that space is a literal tent.
She would also have to justify why she believes that princes (i.e. rulers of this world) do not exist because, after all, that's what the Bible "literally" went on to say, that princes are "literally" nothing, which can easily be taken to mean that they are figments of our imaginations:
That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
-Isa 40:23-24
Anna would have to go on to explain to us how rulers and judges of this world are plants that are literally sown as seeds and grow. She would have to tell us where we can find their roots growing in the ground. She would have to explain how the rulers of nations are all taken out by tornadoes because, after all, it was Anna who declared boldly that, "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively."
Anna has not just been led astray by corrupt religious cultists, she has been WILLINGLY led astray. She told us over Skype, in no uncertain terms, that no matter what we showed her about the Scriptures, no matter how much Scriptural evidence that we presented to her, she would continue to believe in flat-earth (i.e. willingly blind faith without any Scriptural evidence, all the signs of a religious cultist), and others in our church who were at that meeting can testify to her saying that. That is corruption (i.e. leaven) that Anna brought into our church, she refused to the discuss the matter after we gave her 3 months to prepare for it (and she kept dodging the discussion by lying to us to say she was "tired" every time we brought it up), and even had the nerve to lie to us again and say that she was not prepared to discuss the very thing that SHE claimed she had absolutely knowledge of by special revelation from God through prayer.
It's disgusting for Anna to claim to be a disciple of Christ do this garbage to twist and distort the Word of God to her own destruction.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
-2Pe 3:16
Meanwhile, she sat in the background making snide, murmuring remarks at the rest of us while hiding behind her British niceties to save face. If Anna cannot see the corruption in her own spirit, she will never come to acknowledge the truth that she might be brought to repentance and finally understand salvation in Jesus Christ. There's nothing more I can do to help her see that because she has chosen the idol of flat earth over Jesus Christ, so I wrote this rebuke publicly so others would understand.
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
-Tts 1:13-14
As a final thought, here is a 60-second video for everyone else's enjoyment; an experiment run by flat-earthers, in which they accidentally disproved their own theory.
Flat-Earther accidentally proves the earth is round in his own experiment
I want others to know that Anna joined our church about three months ago, and she was removed from our church this past weekend due to that deception. If she decides to come here and argue that was not true, we have an audio recording of that meeting where we can prove that, in which when she was offered to walk through the Scriptures together with us so we can determine the context of them, she refused, stating that she was "uncomfortable" going through them.
To be clear, Anna's removal from our church had NOTHING to do with whether or not she believes in a flat earth. We don't care about that. It had EVERYTHING to do with the fact that she lied to us repeatedly (which is common with flat-earth cultists), she was deceptive, and she refused to sit down and reason out the Scriptures together with us. She never fellowshipped with us, she just spent three months sitting back and listening to us fellowship with each other, while she made passive aggressive (i.e. murmuring) comments in the background.
Anna lied to us so many times in such a short period, I have come to believe that she is NOT born again in Christ. Others may have differing opinions; that's fine. I do not believe her as of yet. She covers the bitterness and hatred in her heart with British niceties, and mistakes timidness for "humility," and I have not seen an ounce of repentance in her heart.
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I’m writing this post as a follow-up to the discussion that we had a little while ago about Biblical cosmology, as I was asked to provide some scriptures on this subject during the conversation. I hope that this post provides some good foundational scriptures for you. Please note that I’m continuing to use the term “Biblical cosmology” to refer to the cosmology described in the Bible in order to clearly differentiate it from the cosmology proposed by the heliocentric model.I have come to learn that Anna prefers to use the term "Biblical cosmology" because she doesn't want to be labeled as a flat-earth cultist (i.e. one who worships flat-earth in place of Jesus Christ), however, after Skype discussion with her, I am convinced that flat-earth is Anna's version of "jesus." She is one of those flat-earth cultists, but she doesn't like the association because it makes her look bad on the outside, and yet, she acts exactly like all the rest of them on the inside, and I am about to demonstrate that. Cosmology (i.e. study of the cosmos) is cosmology. Truth is truth. If what cosmology teaches is truth, and what the Bible teaches is truth, then it's just cosmology. The phrase "Biblical cosmology" is nonsensically redundant because religious cultists (like Anna for example) have made assertions and conjectures about Scripture instead of abiding by the context of Scripture, and so the phrase is nothing more than a show of vanity to deceive.
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During our discussion, I also said that I would provide a visual representation of the Biblical cosmology model. I think this is important so that people can get a basic understanding of what the Bible describes, as many Christians today have been taught to apply the heliocentric model to Biblical text rather than to study the subject of cosmology directly from scripture. (I think it is relevant to note here that although the heliocentric model can be imposed onto the Bible, it simply is not described in the Bible.)She now switched definitions because prior to this, she said it was about the shape of the earth, but now she's lumping that into the beliefs about whether or not the earth revolves around the sun or the sun revolves around the earth.
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Additionally, I think it’s important to look at models that illustrate Biblical cosmology to clarify that the Bible does not describe any of the foolish “flat earth” models that can be found on the Internet.The only reason I disagree with this is because the models she presented are just as foolish (if not moreso) than those found on the internet. If you looked at the images she presented, you will notice that all of them are made up from pure imagination because none of that is Scripturally supported, even though she calls it "Biblical cosmology."
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I have, therefore, attached a document which shows some of the models that people have created in an attempt to represent the cosmology that is described in the Bible. These images, along with others, can be found by doing a simple search on the Internet for “Biblical Cosmology” or “Hebrew Cosmology” etc. (There is also information online which shows that some pagan cultures also originally believed in a flat and enclosed earth. I am not in any way advocating that we Christians should source our truth from pagan cultures; however, I do think it’s noteworthy when we see threads of commonality running through different cultures—a good example is the fact that many cultures acknowledge in their history and/or mythology that there has been some kind of great flood similar to the world-wide flood of Genesis.)I took mythology courses in high school and college, and studied quite a number of them. Did you know that the majority of pagan mythology around the world has the world being created from an egg? If we accept Anna's argument here, we would also have to accept that there are "threads of commonality" that indicate the earth was created from an egg.
My point is that these are fallacious arguments in support of flat-earth, and flat-earth cultists are forced to use those fallacious arguments because they do not have Biblical standing.
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There are some significant differences between the cosmology described in the Bible and the cosmology proposed by the heliocentric model. They are, in fact, decidedly opposite systems in many ways. However, one significant difference that is of particular importance for the Christian is that Biblical cosmology clearly identifies the location of heaven. This is of great relevance when cosmology is studied from a scriptural perspective.Again, Anna doesn't want to say "geocentric." She wants to say "Biblical cosmology" because she knows it makes her sound like she has a "Biblical" argument for all this (because Anna is all about having a good outward appearance in front of other people), but I am about to demonstrate her fallacy, as soon as she gets to her point.
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Applying the principle identified in Isaiah 28:10 is very relevant for the study of Biblical cosmology as the subject is described throughout the Bible, albeit sometimes more directly and sometimes more subtly.This was amazingly deceptive, especially coming from someone who said the following in a Skype call just yesterday concerning Isa 40:22...
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:” Isaiah 28:10
Chris: I'll read the Scripture right now and ask you some basic questions and let you answer them. Would you be willing to do that?
Anna: Um... I would actually prefer just to part ways now.
When Anna posted Isa 28:10 in her forum post here, it was all for show. She doesn't abide by that at all. She can't even bring herself to have a discussion about Scripture with other Christians, but is more than willing to assert that she has the knowledge of God, and that we are all wrong about the Bible. She's a hypocrite and a liar.
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It is correct that Christians who believe in Biblical cosmology generally take scriptures about creation more literally. This is because creation is generally a physical, material, concrete reality which we experience with all of our senses. Though language can be used poetically, it remains natural and logical to describe and understand real and concrete things in real and concrete ways, i.e., literally.I would like Anna to give us an example of when the Bible is just speaking "poetically." I don't know of any Scripture that is meant to simply be "poetry" (i.e. flowery descriptions) because it is a book of instruction, rebuke, correction, and judgment. God literally created the world, but what Anna is about to do is take metaphor literally, which is the hallmark of a flat-earth cultist. (i.e. I have yet to meet one flat-earther who does NOT do what Anna's about to do.)
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It is also necessary to acknowledge that poetic language is used throughout the Bible, such as through the use of similes and metaphors etc.That's called "education," not poetry. I don't think Anna understands the difference. I use metaphors and similes all the time when I'm teaching, but I'm not being "poetic."
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This does not, however, mean that truth is not being revealed when this language is employed. Contrarily, such language often reveals truth through ideas and images that speak to our hearts and minds with an expressiveness, salience, simplicity, and/or depth etc. that cannot always be accomplished with the limitations of literal wording. Truth can be communicated through the use of both literal and figurative language.That last sentence, namely, "Truth can be communicated through the use of both literal and figurative language," just demonstrated Anna's deception. It made everything she just started out saying in her introduction completely pointless. What she attempted to do here was put an emphasis on "truth being taught in metaphor" because what she is actually about to do is transform the Scripture to make metaphors into literal interpretation, so it fits her flat-earth narrative, and then she can say flat-earth is "the truth." This is the M.O. of flat-earth cultists, meaning that, since I have started ministry, I have not encountered one of them that does NOT do this very deceptive thing that Anna just did, because their entire argument hangs on this deception.
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So, as an example, (focussing on just one aspect of the scripture) here is how someone who believes in Biblical cosmology would likely interpret this first part of Isaiah 40:22, “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;”What Anna just did is disgusting, and over a live Skype call with us, she refused to answer for it because once we exposed what she was doing, she suddenly became "uncomfortable" talking about the Scriptures.
Firstly, the language structure of the first part of the verse, “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,” can be read as a literal statement about the Lord’s physical location in relation to the earth—there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively. Applying Isaiah 28:10, this verse correlates well with other scriptures in the Bible which similarly describe the physical location of God, the throne of God, and heaven as being directly above the earth.
The reason I highlighted one section of her statement is because this is the foundation for her house of cards she calls "Biblical cosmology." She said that Isa 40:22 "can be read as a literal statement," and when I read that, I said to myself, "Okay, here's what I've been waiting to see" because I expected her to present her argument of why Isa 40:22's first half should be taken literally, and the second half should not be taken literally so we do not consider all men and animals to be literal grasshoppers.
She went on to say, "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively," and again, I thought, "Okay, so show us your argument that there NOTHING in this passage that should be taken figuratively." Folks, go read the rest of her post for yourself because Anna NEVER EXPLAINS IT. She does not bother to make an argument to support her very strange statement here, and I was very disappointed because I wanted to hear an actual argument.
What Anna did here is called "assertion." In case you don't know what that means:
assertion (n): a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason
Anna just made a positive statement (i.e. "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively") and did not bother to provide any support or reasoning for it.
However, I can offer support and reasoning against it. I will now take us over to Isa 40, starting in verse 13, which, by the way, Anna (over Skype) refused to do with us because she was afraid of what she would find (i.e. she was scared to death that her beloved idol known as "flat earth" would be disproven):
Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
-Isa 40:13-14
I ask anyone reading this: What is the context here? The Bible is asking men who directs God, or who God goes to for counsel. The answer is nobody. God is where all knowledge, wisdom, and understanding begin and end. The Lord is the judge over all because He is in authority over all.
Now that we have that context, let's continue to apply it, just as Isa 28:10 teaches us to do:
Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
-Isa 40:15
Are nations literally bucket drops? No, obviously not; it's ridiculous to think such a thing because this is obviously figurative language, but remember, Anna told us "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively." According to her philosophy, she is stuck between a rock and hard place because she either has to admit that she was wrong, or she has to admit that she thinks nations are literally drops of water.
Those of us who take the Bible seriously know that this is applying the context of Scripture, namely, that God has total authority and power beyond our placid understanding, to the point that, whereas mankind believes a nation to be great, God has so little regard to their person that it is the same as we would consider losing a single drop of water out of an entire barrel.
And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
-Isa 40:16
Lebanon was well knows for its lush trees, and had a very big logging industry coming from it. Even to burn the whole with all the beasts of the world thereon would not be enough sacrifice for man (countering the pagan ideology, where their gods are satisfied after a certain amount), which is why Jesus Christ had to come to be the ultimate sacrifice, to end all sacrifices.
All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
-Isa 40:17
Does Anna believe that nations don't exist? After all, the Bible says that all nations are nothing in the sight of God, and because she said "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively," therefore, she must believe that nations don't exist... or she might have to go through the horrific process of admitting she was wrong. Tough choices.
To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.
-Isa 40:18-19
God cannot be likened unto symbols made by the hands of men. This is why I have a teaching called "Christian Symbols Are Not Christian," and that includes the pagan cross symbol that is plastered all over so many church buildings.
He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.
-Isa 40:20
How can you make an image or symbol to represent the Holy Omniscient All-Power God? Again, the context of these verses is the might, authority, and perfect knowledge of God that cannot be fathomed by man.
Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
-Isa 40:21
Here, the Jews were asked questions, and let's consider the context. What have they known? Was it flat-earth? What have they heard? Was it flat-earth? What did God tell them from the beginning? Was it flat-earth? God is speaking to the idolatrous Jews, and the context is that what they have known, and heard (even from their forefathers), and God told them from the beginning is the power of the Godhead, and that He cannot be replicated by men, despite their pathetic attempts to do so with the work of their meager hands.
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
-Isa 40:22
So what is the context here? Is the context flat-earth? No, obviously not. I just demonstrated that very clearly. It is that God sits above all and judges all, just as the previous verses tell us. It's that simple. God is not bound by physical limitations in that he is literally sitting on top of the world, as if the center of it is His throne. (And the Bible tells us that God's throne is in the third heaven, in His spiritual kingdom, not in this physical world.)
However, Anna provided no arguments to tell why she took those first 11 words literally instead of metaphorically, and then switched back to taking the rest of the verse metaphorically. She knows she would look like an idiot if she she claimed that people are literal grasshoppers, or that the heavens are a literal curtain, or that space is a literal tent.
She would also have to justify why she believes that princes (i.e. rulers of this world) do not exist because, after all, that's what the Bible "literally" went on to say, that princes are "literally" nothing, which can easily be taken to mean that they are figments of our imaginations:
That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
-Isa 40:23-24
Anna would have to go on to explain to us how rulers and judges of this world are plants that are literally sown as seeds and grow. She would have to tell us where we can find their roots growing in the ground. She would have to explain how the rulers of nations are all taken out by tornadoes because, after all, it was Anna who declared boldly that, "there is nothing in the language to suggest we should be reading this figuratively."
Anna has not just been led astray by corrupt religious cultists, she has been WILLINGLY led astray. She told us over Skype, in no uncertain terms, that no matter what we showed her about the Scriptures, no matter how much Scriptural evidence that we presented to her, she would continue to believe in flat-earth (i.e. willingly blind faith without any Scriptural evidence, all the signs of a religious cultist), and others in our church who were at that meeting can testify to her saying that. That is corruption (i.e. leaven) that Anna brought into our church, she refused to the discuss the matter after we gave her 3 months to prepare for it (and she kept dodging the discussion by lying to us to say she was "tired" every time we brought it up), and even had the nerve to lie to us again and say that she was not prepared to discuss the very thing that SHE claimed she had absolutely knowledge of by special revelation from God through prayer.
It's disgusting for Anna to claim to be a disciple of Christ do this garbage to twist and distort the Word of God to her own destruction.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
-2Pe 3:16
Meanwhile, she sat in the background making snide, murmuring remarks at the rest of us while hiding behind her British niceties to save face. If Anna cannot see the corruption in her own spirit, she will never come to acknowledge the truth that she might be brought to repentance and finally understand salvation in Jesus Christ. There's nothing more I can do to help her see that because she has chosen the idol of flat earth over Jesus Christ, so I wrote this rebuke publicly so others would understand.
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
-Tts 1:13-14
As a final thought, here is a 60-second video for everyone else's enjoyment; an experiment run by flat-earthers, in which they accidentally disproved their own theory.
Flat-Earther accidentally proves the earth is round in his own experiment
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General Discussion / Re: Sacrilege in churches
« on: January 15, 2023, 06:11:08 PM »
If it's "all about Jesus," then why do they have to tell us every year that it's "all about Jesus?"
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General Discussion / Re: Sacrilege in churches
« on: January 14, 2023, 08:27:33 AM »
From Christmas: Rejecting Jesus
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This demonstrates that the Lord Jesus Christ does not like people who try to ride the fence and stay neutral. He would rather that they show some genuine interest or curiosity to do more research, or on the other hand, get angry. He wants them to pick a side, and in most cases, when someone is presented with information like what I have written in this book, and they have little or no reaction, adding in some casual, self-serving excuses like, "Well, TO ME, it's all about Jesus," that is when we can verify we are talking with a lukewarm person who has no interest in what is pleasing to God, and it is almost impossible to have a conversation with someone who has closed their eyes and ears.
And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
-Acts 28:24-27
So again, I would say that Christians need to stop judging according to the outward appearance of a matter, namely, if someone has a Christmas tree up in their window, or if they have a Christmas wreath on their front door. If that household is not of Christ (whether they claim to be or not), then whether they participate in Christmas rituals or not will make no difference, and as I have already stated in this book, the rejection of the Christmas celebration is not a requirement for saving grace in Jesus Christ. Rather, we should judge righteous judgment by presenting the information to those who claim to be of Christ, and see how they react to it.
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What's New @ CLE / (BOOK PUBLISHED) False Prophet Profiles: Kim Clement
« on: January 10, 2023, 03:56:26 PM »
False Prophet Profiles: Kim Clement is now available for purchase in the Amazon store.
As always, my books are available free to read at creationliberty.com, but if you want a copy of the book on paperback or Kindle, they are now available.
READ BOOK FOR FREE: https://www.creationliberty.com/articles/fpp-kclement.php
PURCHASE A COPY: http://creationliberty.com/store.php#fpp-kclement
Kim Clement was a self-proclaimed prophet that has been honored around the world as the "singing prophet," but due to the deceptive advertising campaign of Clement's family and his ministry, House of Destiny, few people know of the hundreds of false prophecies Clement gave. For example, Kim Clement predicted that Rudy Guiliani would win the U.S. presidential election in 2008, that the death of Kim Jong-Il (who died in 2011) would unite North and South Korea, that all the homosexuals in Los Angeles were cured of AIDS/HIV on the night of Mar 5, 2002, that America would go to war against Iraq in retaliation over the explosion of TWA-800 back in 1996, and that Rupert Murdoch (owner of HarperCollins, FOX News, and Sky News Australia) and fiction author Stephen King would become Christian evangelists by the end of 2006, none of which happened.
"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."
-Matthew 24:11
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
-2 Peter 2:1
As always, my books are available free to read at creationliberty.com, but if you want a copy of the book on paperback or Kindle, they are now available.
READ BOOK FOR FREE: https://www.creationliberty.com/articles/fpp-kclement.php
PURCHASE A COPY: http://creationliberty.com/store.php#fpp-kclement
Kim Clement was a self-proclaimed prophet that has been honored around the world as the "singing prophet," but due to the deceptive advertising campaign of Clement's family and his ministry, House of Destiny, few people know of the hundreds of false prophecies Clement gave. For example, Kim Clement predicted that Rudy Guiliani would win the U.S. presidential election in 2008, that the death of Kim Jong-Il (who died in 2011) would unite North and South Korea, that all the homosexuals in Los Angeles were cured of AIDS/HIV on the night of Mar 5, 2002, that America would go to war against Iraq in retaliation over the explosion of TWA-800 back in 1996, and that Rupert Murdoch (owner of HarperCollins, FOX News, and Sky News Australia) and fiction author Stephen King would become Christian evangelists by the end of 2006, none of which happened.
"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."
-Matthew 24:11
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
-2 Peter 2:1
179
Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Another Worshiper of Feelings
« on: January 10, 2023, 04:30:55 AM »
Even if they're deaf, blind, and dumb... they can still have "holy" seizures. 
BTW, this woman decided to go on a rant against me on my Rumble channel videos. Apparently, just title of my article was enough to set her off in a rage crusade. If she was really faithful in what she believed, why is her faith shaken so badly by just the title to one of my articles, which she didn't bother to read?
BTW, this woman decided to go on a rant against me on my Rumble channel videos. Apparently, just title of my article was enough to set her off in a rage crusade. If she was really faithful in what she believed, why is her faith shaken so badly by just the title to one of my articles, which she didn't bother to read?
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Bible Discussion / MOVED: Biblical Cosmology
« on: January 09, 2023, 10:26:25 PM »
This topic has been moved to Christian General Discussion.
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1653.0
https://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1653.0