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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wynand on February 03, 2019, 03:04:10 PM

Title: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Wynand on February 03, 2019, 03:04:10 PM
He teaches that Jesus is the Father. Clearly not scriptural. The jpeg is to large to share. It is on his fb page.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Jeanne on February 03, 2019, 05:40:05 PM
Uh, who are you talking about here?
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Dee Babbitt on February 03, 2019, 05:56:22 PM

He teaches Jesus is the Father.

Who is this man you mention, when you say:  "He teaches ..." 

Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 03, 2019, 06:52:53 PM
Is this going to be a repeated issue?
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Zoologistkid on February 03, 2019, 07:29:14 PM
From what I can remember, Lies of the devil was the same man who revealed to Chris that Kent Hovind had a third wife.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Wynand on February 03, 2019, 08:13:25 PM
Yes Zoo that is the same guy. He has a website called "lies of the devil" and he is on youtube.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Wynand on February 03, 2019, 08:17:47 PM
I think his name is on his website https://www.liesofthedevil.com
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Dee Babbitt on February 03, 2019, 09:50:48 PM
He teaches that Jesus is the Father. Clearly not scriptural.

Wynand, Jesus is the Everlasting Father.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
-Isaiah 9:6
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Jeanne on February 03, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
I've watched a few videos from Lies of the Devil, and though I don't agree with a lot of what he says, he was still spot on when talking about Kent Hovind. Chris J. was not promoting his ministry when he posted that video, but was rather just pointing out the error in Hovind.

As a matter of fact, your OP should have been posted as a reply to that thread, instead of starting a new one. That would have avoided a lot of confusion. Although I can't remember now if that was one Chris locked from further comment or not...
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 03, 2019, 10:55:19 PM
This pattern from Wynand of posting one sentence or just a few words needs to stop. This isn't twitter. This isn't social media. This is a place where we have discussions. In addition, in this particular instance, Dee was correct in her response in which Wynand was claiming a doctrine was "not Scriptural," when in fact, it is. I think Wynand needs to start putting a bridal on the tongue; not to say that he cannot talk, as I'm glad to have his conversation with us, but that he should consider what he's saying and doing because this forum isn't a twitter feed.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Wynand on February 04, 2019, 12:03:36 AM
Jesus is not the Father. He is the Eternal Son of God.
1 John 1:3 KJV
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 2:1 KJV
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1 John 4:15 KJV
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 KJV
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Genesis 1:26 KJV
And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Proverbs 30:4 KJV
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
John 1:1,14 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14:6 KJV
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 20:17 KJV
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Hebrews 1:1-14 KJV
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; [4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. [5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. [7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. [8] But unto the Son he saith , Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. [9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: [11] They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; [12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. [13] But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Revelation 1:5-6 KJV
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Let clear Scripture interpret the unclear one in Isaiah 9:6.
Lies of the devil are from the devil. I will stay with scripture. Thank you Ps:Long enough post....
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Wynand on February 04, 2019, 12:06:06 AM
Now if Jesus is the Father none of that scriptures can make any sense. Logic
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Jeanne on February 04, 2019, 06:11:01 AM
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Chris on February 04, 2019, 09:15:34 AM
Is the Father the God of Abraham?  I believe He is. He told Moses his name.

Exodus 3:14 KJV
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus makes a claim in Matthew.

John 8:58 KJV
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Not only is He claiming to be present with them and in existence before Abraham at the same instance. He claims that He is the I AM.  The God of their fathers.

If that wasn't clear enough. Jesus is very transparent in his claim in the following verse.


John 14:9 KJV
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then , Shew us the Father?

This understanding is not obtained by man's reasoning or logic but by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 04, 2019, 10:47:53 AM
Now if Jesus is the Father none of that scriptures can make any sense. Logic
Yeah, the more you keep posting, the more I keep seeing what Dee was concerned about when she said something didn't seem quite right about you when you joined. Something's wrong, and I can't tell what it is yet because you keep making these vague, one-sentence posts instead of having discussion with us. When I can't see the fullness of your thoughts, I can't discern what the problem is; perhaps you're doing that on purpose? I don't know. When you're denying the Word of God in replacement for your own worldly understanding, there's a problem.
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
-Pro 3:5

If you want to learn more about why Jesus said...
I and my Father are one. -John 10:30
... then this is the teaching you should probably look at:
Is The Trinity A Biblical Doctrine? (http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/trinity.php)
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Wynand on February 04, 2019, 11:24:35 AM
Yes with you because clearly you are oneness pentecostals and deny the SON. Delete me from your forum please. You believe heretical doctrine.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Zoologistkid on February 04, 2019, 11:39:06 AM
Hold on, Hold on, Wynard, where is this claim of "oneness" or Pentecostals coming from, did you even read the article? In the article, Chris explains that the Trinity is pagan term but God in three persons is biblical. How can deny verses like John 10:30, where Jesus said that he and is Father is one? Again, how do we deny the Son, you're not making any sense.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 04, 2019, 12:09:27 PM
Yes with you because clearly you are oneness pentecostals and deny the SON. Delete me from your forum please. You believe heretical doctrine.
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
-Pro 18:13

If you are of Christ, I hope that one day you'll take the time to learn about this matter instead of falsely accusing us because the Bible says it is foolishness and shame unto you for how you've acted here. You ought to be an adult in understanding, not acting as a child in such matters:
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
-1Co 14:20

However, if you cannot control yourself, I'm glad you departed on your own:
Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.
-Pro 22:10

scorn (n): a subject of extreme contempt, disdain or derision; that which is treated with contempt

Btw, I'm not deleting his account; his words and our interactions with him can help build up discernment in other Christians. He's not going to wipe away what he has said that easily. I did change his belief on his profile to "Other" because, even though he professed to believe on Christ, based on his other posts, we've not been able to determine what he really believes.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 04, 2019, 02:16:08 PM
Not sure about this yet, but I may have to ban him now. He wrote a post that he wanted his account deleted, but he's been returning to the forum to check up on this post, which he provided evidence to me because he emailed me the following, which is probably some sort of email subscription option he had to any responses to his posts:
Do not email me again oneness heretics. I will expose you for what you are.
----------------
On 4 Feb 2019 18:39, "CLE Forum" <creationliberty@*********> wrote:
A reply has been posted to a topic you are watching by Zoologistkid.
View the reply at: http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=531.new;topicseen#new
Unsubscribe to this topic by using this link: http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?action=notify;topic=531.0
More replies may be posted, but you won't receive any more notifications until you read the topic.

The foolish thing about this is that I didn't email him. That's an automated option he selected to be contacted when he gets a response on the forum. He doesn't understand this. I'll probably have to put a ban on him because he's calling me all sorts of things in email now; I'm getting emails from him while I'm writing this. This is so ridiculously childish.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Zoologistkid on February 04, 2019, 05:59:02 PM
Chris, do you have any idea what he's talking about, he's not making any sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 04, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
I would argue that he didn't make any sense from the start. I had a hard time following anything he was saying because he wasn't slowing down and communicating clearly. The second we corrected him from the Scripture, he threw a fit. In the personal emails he sent me, it got worse because he thought he wasn't going to be seen by everyone, but I may remedy that issue by posting it in the wild emails section. I haven't decided yet.

I've been dealing with a lot of this garbage lately on the forum and in emails, and I'm just getting a bit weary of it. Whether I have to be really firm with them, or whether I'm trying to be patient with them, it seems that they all react the same way in the end; there's just nothing I can do.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Zoologistkid on February 04, 2019, 06:51:43 PM
He did not really look into what we believe and now he believes that we have the same belief as "pentecostal oneness". What even is that?
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: anvilhauler on February 04, 2019, 07:20:13 PM
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
-Pro 18:13

That certainly applied to me when I commented to Fred about his marriage stuff.  I commented without reading in depth much of what he wrote.  Usually I would never do that, I would certainly never do it at work or with other important personal matters and made the mistake of doing it here but knowing if anything he had written was wrong it would get picked up afterwards.  That sure was a folly and a shame on my part   .....  I made a right fool of myself.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Jeanne on February 04, 2019, 09:50:03 PM
Kevin, we all make mistakes sometimes. At least you recognise and repent of them, so you can be forgiven.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: anvilhauler on February 04, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
Thanks Jeanne.  Maybe in a few weeks time I might not still feel like I'm the village idiot.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Dee Babbitt on February 05, 2019, 11:22:49 AM
Kevin, what we see is the caring and kindness in you...


I am feeling like the village idiot right now,
because it was my questions to Wynand that first upset him...


Putting my thoughts into words, I need to improve on this...

If I had chosen my words more carefully,
perhaps he would not have taken my "caring" as an attack

It put him on the defensive, and it escalated.
It would have been good if we could have reasoned with him.

I should be more careful (not emotional) so that my words do not offend.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.--1 Timothy2:11-12

Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: creationliberty on February 05, 2019, 11:46:28 AM
Quote
I am feeling like the village idiot right now,
because it was my questions to Wynand that first upset him...
You first discerned there was a problem; even before I did... well, I mean... there was something in the back of my mind, but I ignored it. You addressed it. Guess what? You were right. That should build confidence. He then put on a show, a false pretense (i.e. a lie) on the outside, that he was not offended by that in his responses, however, when others started addressing him on his errors (because there was more than one), he got frustrated for one reason:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10

None of the rest of you acted like that when you came here. All the rest of you were quite humble, willing to learn, and be corrected; that shows a heart of repentance, but Wynand was not showing the same thing.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: Dee Babbitt on February 05, 2019, 12:33:07 PM
thank you, Chris :-)

You're right, I am thankful to God for giving me discernment, and confidence has been building up. 

 
I just pray, and want to be sure that I speak carefully and more thoughtfully, especially to new people...
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: ThomasHGW on February 05, 2019, 02:36:02 PM
I agree Dee, I was unsure how to put into words how I felt about him but you seemed to pinpoint exactly what to address and ask him which then showed his true colors.
Just remember that if asking him if he has repented or knew what repentance is upsets him, theres probably a problem.
Title: Re: Lies of the devil teach false doctrine
Post by: anvilhauler on February 05, 2019, 05:37:48 PM
Thanks for your kind words Dee. 

I agree with the others too in that it was good the way you challenged Wynand and in the end it caused him to show to everyone who he really was underneath.