CLE Forum
General Category => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: TruthKeeper on October 16, 2018, 05:11:18 PM
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Hi,
My name is Ann. I am trying to find truth. I was raised Pentecostal and left the church for about 13 years... then after coming back I have not found what I feel is really God. I am a bit confused about some things. I feel I have probably been taught wrong doctrine but I am not sure how to "undo" what has been taught to me? Someone posted a link to Chris's youtube video about the 501c3 churches, in a group I'm in on facebook. I watched that last night and am currently watching a few more. I am interested to see if this is what I'm looking for. I'm not positive but I hope I can find truth. By the way I am 47 years old and live in the south.
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Hi Ann,
You will find here that what is taught here is nothing except what is in the Bible. You won't find anyone trying to get you to send in money (Read the article on tithing here: http://creationliberty.com/articles/tithe.php) or forcing ideas down your throat. Everything is thoroughly documented and backed up by Scripture.
There are several of us here who have come out of Pentacostalism and no longer have anything to do with any of the traditional church buildings.
I hope you can grow and learn with us, too!
Jeanne
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Thank you Jeanne,
What was your biggest issue with the Pentecostal church?
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That's like getting hit in the face with a cream pie, and then asking what part of the cream pie was the worst.
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What Chris just said... I was in an Assembly of God church rather than United Pentecostal, but they're both still full of leaven and false doctrine.
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I grew up Church of God and went a year to Church of God college.... I honestly don't know what is right and wrong at this point.
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All you really have to do is compare what you're being taught with Scripture. We only use the King James Bible here; you can read why on the website. God promised He would preserve His word (Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.) but that doesn't stop Satan and his minions from trying to corrupt it anyway.
There are dozens of articles on dozens of different subjects at creationliberty.com and they are all backed up with extensive references from Scripture and other places. (Doctrine is backed up by Scripture; claims made by others are backed up with where the quotes came from.)
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All you really have to do is compare what you're being taught with Scripture. We only use the King James Bible here; you can read why on the website. God promised He would preserve His word (Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.) but that doesn't stop Satan and his minions from trying to corrupt it anyway.
There are dozens of articles on dozens of different subjects at creationliberty.com and they are all backed up with extensive references from Scripture and other places. (Doctrine is backed up by Scripture; claims made by others are backed up with where the quotes came from.)
Other than Speaking in tongues... what would you say is wrong about the Pentecostal church?
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Pretty much everything, same as with other denominations. They're mostly all 501(c)(3); they all want your tithes; they celebrate pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter and Halloween; they're respecters of persons (don't you DARE question the pastor!) and they flock to all sorts of wicked, unbiblical teachers such as Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, et al; they don't sanctify themselves from the world; really, too much to mention everything.
The topics I just mentioned are all topics Chris has written articles on. I would really encourage you to go over to the website and just start reading.
With all the questions you're asking about what's wrong with the Pentecostals, though, I'm really starting to wonder if you really do want to sanctify yourself from them. Are you really looking for the truth or are you looking for an excuse?
In your original post, you asked about how to 'undo' all the false doctrine you've been taught over the years. The answer to that is to simply start reading the Bible for yourself. Chris has done an excellent job of explaining a lot of things, but reading his articles and listening to his teachings are no substitute for just getting into the Word for yourself and studying.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
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Hi Ann,
I love it when people are really looking for the truth! I was a pentecostal for nearly 40 years. I believe God led me out of this. I studied the topic 'speaking in tongues' for myself and came to realize it's all fake and false. Though lots of pentecostals are sincere, they are misled/deceived, specially when it comes to speaking in tongues. I left 'my' church 3 years ago after hearing a horrible preaching about speaking in tongues. It was claimed that 'speaking in tongues' could give you special wisdom. That did it for me. I am not going anywhere at the moment, I have had it with denominations in general. I Hope and pray for you that you may find some genuine Christians. Always keep Christ in the center of your life, He is Lord. Amen. BTW I was in a church linked to the Foursquare-movement.
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Have prayed ... and will continue to pray for you, Ann. One of my sons-in-law was born in Georgia. Am baby-sitting his son, Christiano. That should help me remember you in prayer. :)
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Pretty much everything, same as with other denominations. They're mostly all 501(c)(3); they all want your tithes; they celebrate pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter and Halloween; they're respecters of persons (don't you DARE question the pastor!) and they flock to all sorts of wicked, unbiblical teachers such as Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, et al; they don't sanctify themselves from the world; really, too much to mention everything.
The topics I just mentioned are all topics Chris has written articles on. I would really encourage you to go over to the website and just start reading.
With all the questions you're asking about what's wrong with the Pentecostals, though, I'm really starting to wonder if you really do want to sanctify yourself from them. Are you really looking for the truth or are you looking for an excuse?
In your original post, you asked about how to 'undo' all the false doctrine you've been taught over the years. The answer to that is to simply start reading the Bible for yourself. Chris has done an excellent job of explaining a lot of things, but reading his articles and listening to his teachings are no substitute for just getting into the Word for yourself and studying.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
For someone that is looking for truth and understanding.... it's not such a good feeling for someone to say that "I wonder if you are really looking to sanctify yourself from them. Or are you looking for an excuse?"
Just because I don't understand everything does not mean I am looking for an excuse for anything.... have you never been confused? That sure is not a good way to teach someone something. JMHO
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"I feel I have probably been taught wrong doctrine but I am not sure how to "undo" what has been taught to me?"
As already been said: you can 'undo' the wrong teachings taught to you, but you''ll have to work on that. As for me, it took some time to 'deprogram' myself from false pentecostal teachings. I studied 1 Cor 12-14 multiple times, from multiple angles. I studied the roots of pentecostalism, you can find it on CLF too. Very helpful. Looking for the truth is not always easy: I had to leave the church I was in. I had to, there was no other option for me.
Pentecostalism is cultish, it has wrong foundations. Looking back now, there was a lot of superstition (though the church I was in was quite moderate). Please consider the advice being made here: study the Word of God for yourself.
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John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.
Who is "he"?
The Holy Ghost - as far as I can see.
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The problem is that I always thought the Holy Spirit was the one teaching me before. So how do I know when the Holy Spirit is really guiding me? That's the big question for me.
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Whenever what you're learning lines up perfectly with the Bible. More study in the Word, and discernment of doctrine, will help breed the confidence you're looking for.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Rom 10:17
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2Ti 2:25
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Whenever what you're learning lines up perfectly with the Bible. More study in the Word, and discernment of doctrine, will help breed the confidence you're looking for.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Rom 10:17
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2Ti 2:25
Thank you!
The Lord led me to start reading all the way through the Bible this year. I am currently up to the last chapter of Jeremiah. I cannot believe how much I truly don't know about the Word. I got involved with my church at the age of 16... prior to that I just went because my parents made me... and that was not all the time. Then I was molested at the age of 11 and had emotional issues that popped up at the age of 14. So, I was looking for answers then but I was very swayed by emotional things. After High school I went away to a Pentecostal college for a year. I married someone from that church but when the marriage started to fail I quit church all together until a few years ago. The main reason I have not continued in church was because I have health issues that prevented me from going. During this time away from church I have started researching a lot of things and I'm finding things I never thought I would. So here I am just wanting to know what God is really all about.
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TruthKeeper, the only reason I questioned your sincerity is because you kept asking what was wrong with the Pentecostal church and what the worst part was. That's like asking what's the worst part of a poo sandwich, and which is worse; dog poo or cat poo?
Then, after I told you that all you had to do was compare what you were being taught with Scripture, you still came back and asked what was wrong with the Pentecostal church other than speaking in tongues. Past experience has shown me that people who keep asking the same questions after being given an answer are not really looking for answers.
If you truly are just looking for understanding, then I apologise for misjudging you. I'm also very sorry to hear about the things you've been through.
I'm sure you've heard about all the scandals going on in the Catholic Church about sexual abuse, since it's been in the news a lot lately. What most people don't realise, however, is that these same types of things are just as prevalent in the Protestant churches, but they're still more hidden and not publicised as much. It may not involve children quite as much, but that does still happen, too.
The bottom line is, if an individual or organisation is leavened, you stay away from it altogether. As the Bible says, 'A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.' Sure, there may be a little bit of truth mixed in there somewhere, but you can't really separate the truth from the lies.
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I guess I am wondering what all the things were in the Pentecostal church that were not Biblical. I am still learning and honestly I would say I am probably still indoctrinated. Am I trying to think differently? Yes... I am trying to learn what is not Biblical... Do I know yet? No. This would not be a reason to question someone desire to know the truth.
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Perhaps the folly was mine, that I inserted a joke that may have caused a problem in communication. I was commenting on the question about Jeanne's experience, which was "What was the worst part?" This is not to say there are not worst parts, but all of it is bad. However, if the question is about what all the aspects and details of their deception, there are some points I think Severius (one of the men in our church) would probably be able to answer more thoroughly. Sadly, he's bogged down with work right now, so he probably hasn't had time to come on the forum lately to check these posts.
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Ann, I heard this dialogue a few days ago.
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2018/10/04/woman-whos-been-through-hell-says-she-was-healed-by-the-lord/
I am sharing it, for what it's worth. I do think it is worth a lot and might help or inspire you somehow. I had felt very thankful hearing it.
Excerpt:
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RUSH: Sonia, how did you
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Sorry the excerpt was truncated somehow.
Here is what I had wanted to quote:
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RUSH: Sonia, how did you
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What does that have to do with what we're discussing in this thread?
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https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Corinthians-10-31/
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Dido, in case you may have missed previous posts on this subject, this forum software does not accept foreign apostrophes. This means that if you try to paste something in from another source, you have to go back and manually replace all the apostrophes in the post box. You also have to do this from a computer, as apostrophes from mobile devices don't work, either. Even when I copy/paste Scripture, I have to make sure that there are no apostrophes and that if there are, I have to replace them.
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I'm still unable to determine how what he's posting has to do with the subject matter in this thread.
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Christopher, perhaps you think I came here with an ulterior motive, an agenda?
What did you not like in any of my posting - aside from what you have said?
by the way, did you read about "Sonia" who I think, right or wrong, Ann can relate to - if not be inspired by?
Am praying for Ann. I pray for a lot of people.
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Christopher, perhaps you think I came here with an ulterior motive, an agenda?
What did you not like in any of my posting - aside from what you have said?
by the way, did you read about "Sonia" who I think, right or wrong, Ann can relate to - if not be inspired by?
Am praying for Ann. I pray for a lot of people.
A simple question was asked. "What does that have to do with what we're discussing in this thread?"
You posted a link to a verse that has nothing to do with anything on this thread. I am also not seeing what your post has to do with anything here either. All we are asking is for you to explain. If a question like this is too difficult to be answered and you get emotional over it, then how can anyone have a basic discussion with you? There is no reason to get defensive over this.
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Allow me to attempt this since there might be some confusion. I re-read everything Ann was talking about, and she mentioned one line where she said her health was poor. That may have been the reason for the original post, and that's what I was questioning, but Dido, please understand that Rush Limbaugh is not a Christian. I'm sure he claims to be one, and I'm sure a lot of churchgoers listen to his show, but he is not of Christ; therefore, I would not trust ANY testimony that comes from his radio show or his site.
The subject matter that Ann was posting about was the confusion of the Pentecostals, and it is exactly the Pentecostals that will post things like from Rush Limbaugh and claim they are miracles of God. Pentecostals are well-known for stretching the truth, and I believe what you posted is going to cause more confusion for Ann.
Saying that "right or wrong" Ann can relate to Sonia, is claiming that even if it is wrong, it's good for Christians? That is incorrect sir. If it's wrong (which is leaven), then it's not good. In Matthew 12 and 16, Jesus told us it is a wicked/evil and adulterous generation that seeks after a sign, rather, we ought to seek His Word in all things, and encourage one another with the Word of God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
-John 20:29
I talk more about that here in our article, "Revivalism: The Devil's Design (http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/revival.php)"
Therefore, what would encourage Ann is not to post things from worldly, leavened, and false sources, but to go to the Word:
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
-Matthew 6:31-33
And that the understanding will come to those who ask Him sincerely; God will unlock His Word to her:
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
-Mat 7:7-8
Those who come in repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of their wrongdoing) to the Lord Jesus Christ will not be turned away; not by God, nor by us in the church.
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Hi Chris.... I didn't understand why he posted that article either. I read a small amount and could not see what he was telling me. I don't really have time for a lot of articles etc... I want to learn truth. I feel like I do need to learn good History to understand why our country is where it is spiritually. I have stopped watching the news for the last 7 years except when there is a natural disaster. The beginning of this year I felt the Holy Spirit removing TV shows from my life as well. I do watch a few sports on tv. Otherwise, the only thing I desire is God's word and learning about His word.
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Did I misread Ann? Wasn't she molested? I thought she was and it brought to mind what I heard of a "Sonia" who talked about her experience and how Jesus Christ had healed her.
Does this help make things clearer?
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Ann, Welcome!
I hope you will read Chris' articles and listen to what he has been teaching. I have been relatively fortunate to come out of the leavened church buildings right as Chris started this ministry and have been blessed to be a part of it as it has grown (not without my own spiritual struggles, mind you). Look up the verses, see what it says in your own bible and the whole chapter and just keep seeking the truth of the Word. That will make the way for you. None of us can do it on our own! We need to read the word and grow in that.
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About "foreign apostrophes" ...
I bring this up because of the misunderstanding caused by previously truncated message (about a "Sonia" who was molested).
A few minutes ago, I started a thread on The Holy Ghost. I saw another instance of a truncated message.
I attach herewith a preview of the message before I hit the "Post" button.
It had looked complete to me.
(I am almost sure I had the same experience in the aforementioned message re "Sonia.")
Question:
How can one see or determine if an apostrophe is "foreign"?
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A 'foreign' apostrophe is one that is not typed directly into the post box here on the forum from a computer (not a mobile device). The whole post will show up in a preview, but will cut off once you hit the 'post' button, which is why you need to look at what you have written AFTER you post it. You have 30 minutes from the time you make a post in which to edit it.
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Hi Ann, first of all welcome to the forum and glad you found CLE website to learn from. I have a hard time reading the article but I manage to listen to most of the audio teachings. I also listen to audio KJV at times, when it's not possible to read.
I was saved out of the deep occult, and after that I journeyed through most of the denominations out there. I also spend time in the pentecostal denomination, in various churches. I'd agree with Chris and Jeanne that there is nothing good in there.
Most of their practises are demonic: speaking in tongues, falling in spirit, holy laughter, laying hands (when people fall over), etc.
I quess there is enough evidence out there and in Gods word (1 Cor 14) to expose the falsity of the tongues. Have you never wondered why everyone is to be gifted with that particular gift, and nobody is drinking poison, or raising the dead???
MAtthew 7: 15,Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Very cruel is also the doctrine that if you are not healed in their demonic rituals, you have not enough faith. This destroys the sincere sick people that desperately seek healing in those places. Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Then there is the idea of the prosperity gospel, that when we have Jesus, we have prosperity: money, health, succes, etc. Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
I have seen a lot in the occult, and the pentecostals are very similar to what I have seen there. It is witchcraft. They just have the label christianity on there, but it has nothing to do with God. Their supernatural experiences are addictive and people continue to go for the rush, experience, fix and social pressure. It is all about feelings, but salvations is not something you feel, it is something you KNOW. Once you get sucked into the massive' group' experience it is hard to get out. I praise our Lord and Saviour that He managed to pull you out, and I am confident that by reading your own Bible and praying to God for discernment you will grow and be firmly established in His word and Truth. When I was saved I had never even read the Bible, it took me a lot of reading, studying and time, but He lead me all the way and still does! 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.(This annointing not to be mistaken with the one the pentecostals talk about!!!)
Do not feel inadequate or discouraged by the amount of knowledge you do not have but be content with where you are at, and confident that God will lead you in all Truth and that His Truth stands forever.
Ephesians 6: 13, Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14, Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15, And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16, Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17, And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18, Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
((Again praying in Spirit NOT to be mistaken with what the pentecostal teach about demonic gibberish ))